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Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 07:40 PM
Hi all,

I've been playing around with GIMP for about a few weeks, experimenting with the various tutorials and trying to figure everything out. This is my current WIP, a small island of a larger group in a world map. The scale of the map is pretty small - it's around 10-15 miles from the western shore to the eastern. I'm still trying to figure out how to do a few things (and even if some things are possible).

I still have to place the towns and I was thinking of putting a small stream in it, but every attempt I've done hasn't looked good (to me, at least) so it's still in the works. A few questions, for those of you who may know:
1. Is there any way to calculate area in a freehand/lasso selection?
2. Is there any way to have a map display more detail as you zoom in, like you see in google maps? The idea would be that certain objects only appear at certain zoom levels. A far fetched thought, but I didn't think it would hurt to ask.

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y339/jccaran/Esaene%20Maps/Deldesheim.jpg

A R Frost
04-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Looks good for just starting out. I'm sure the bettered skilled mappers here will have all the answers you need. And it's 1000% better then my first feeble attempt at using GIMP for this style of map.
I feel that the mountains came out well. The one thing that really catches my eye is that the forest look like they are just plopped down on top of the land. Your mountains blend in with the land and the forest doesn't. I don't know how to fix it, but I'm sure it will be explained shortly. And I can use that knowledge to improve myself.
I think its a wonderful start, can't wait to see your island progress.

rpgmapmaker
04-18-2010, 08:22 PM
First let me say you have a great start. I would try to integrate the trees into the map more... maybe by desaturating them some or messing with the transfer mode or opacity... just a thought.

As to your questions...



1. Is there any way to calculate area in a freehand/lasso selection?
2. Is there any way to have a map display more detail as you zoom in, like you see in Google maps?

1. Not that I am aware of. Try printing the map laying a string around the edge then measure the string using a length of string you set to the scale of your map equal to 1 mile or kilometer then use that as the total diameter of the shape... I am not that great at math so... also check my method with common sense and a second opinion :)

2. Not in a normal image format but you can pull off something like that using Flash or the Google map engine. I have seen other maps using their engine.

Adobe Flash trial (http://www.adobe.com/downloads/)
Google Map Code (http://code.google.com/apis/maps/)

You might have to do some research to find out how to use the Google map engine...

-RPGMapMaker

jwbjerk
04-18-2010, 08:38 PM
1. Is there any way to calculate area in a freehand/lasso selection?

In photoshop there is, i don't know if Gimp has replicated this feature.

When something is selected, the histogram palette has a little item at the bottom "Pixels: 12345" (or whatever number is appropriate). If there's a "!" in a triangle symbol in the upper right corner, you must click on it to make it finish calculating the total pixels.

Jaxilon
04-18-2010, 09:09 PM
I don't know either. It seems I have a vague recollection of someone saying something about the number of pixels but I can't remember what it was about or if it even had anything to do with using a selection tool. If anyone knows it will be RobA. He's the Gimp master.

Might I ask what you want to use the information for? In gimp there is the measure tool if you want to see how many pixels wide something is. Not sure if that helps though.

If you want multiple levels of zoom you probably will want to use something like viewingdale which Redrobes can tell you everything about :) or the Google map code which I've never attempted. I know when I created my Port Mag challenge entry there was a ton of detail I had zoomed in like 400% but you could barely see at 100% zoom....I think all that detail was lost in the final version but I personally know it was there. Like barrels in carts and stuff like that. Not sure how anyone would see it though.

Oh, and I think you could add some more depth to your ocean, compared to the textures of your land it seems a bit slick. I think RobA's tutorial Using GIMP to Create an Artistic Regional RPG Map should give some good points for that. If that's what you started out with you might just want to play with it a bit till you get what you want.

An excellent start though, keep up the good work.

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 10:20 PM
@AR - I totally agree about the forest. It's been bothering me, but I haven't gotten the right look for it yet.
@Jax - I use a fantasy population app I found online to determine population and density based on the area of the land in question - just to give me an idea of how many towns and villages should be there. I can adjust afterwards, but it's mostly for the reason of me being a dork. :-)

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 10:22 PM
In photoshop there is, i don't know if Gimp has replicated this feature.

When something is selected, the histogram palette has a little item at the bottom "Pixels: 12345" (or whatever number is appropriate). If there's a "!" in a triangle symbol in the upper right corner, you must click on it to make it finish calculating the total pixels.

I just checked the histogram and there it is! Thanks a bunch!

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 10:50 PM
I was playing with it and looking some stuff up and I found this (http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/User:Hellerick/How_to_calculate_map_area_in_Photoshop). It's for photoshop, but I think I figured out how to do it in GIMP. I used a Gaussian Blur the size of image and just checked out the RGB levels by clicking the sampled color. I already knew the length and width based on the measure tool.

arsheesh
04-18-2010, 11:15 PM
Hello Chris! Overall this is looking quite nice so far. Hm, if those forests were created the way that I think they were, I'm not sure what to do to make them blend in with the terrain better. I've tried a few techniques to try and soften the edges, but haven't landed on a technique that I am satisfied with yet. However I have made some other suggestions in my second post "here" (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?10009-Making-Photo-realistic-Trees-in-GIMP-A-Mini-Tut) regarding the color and shading of these forests that you might be interested in.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 11:18 PM
OK, I've added a dropshadow to the forest and reduced opacity on the forest layers to 50%.

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Hello Chris! Overall this is looking quite nice so far. Hm, if those forests were created the way that I think they were, I'm not sure what to do to make them blend in with the terrain better. I've tried a few techniques to try and soften the edges, but haven't landed on a technique that I am satisfied with yet. However I have made some other suggestions in my second post "here" (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?10009-Making-Photo-realistic-Trees-in-GIMP-A-Mini-Tut) regarding the color and shading of these forests that you might be interested in.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

They were. :-) Great tutorial, by the way. I'll play around with it - I was using the pdf and hadn't checked back with that thread recently.

Bayonet_Chris
04-18-2010, 11:31 PM
OK, here is with the adjustments from arsheesh.

Deldesheim2 is the most recent image. The other is the one earlier in the thread's first page.

arsheesh
04-18-2010, 11:42 PM
I definitely like the more vibrant colors of Deldesheim2 more than the original, and the toned down drop shadow looks more natural. Nicely done.

Diamond
04-19-2010, 12:09 AM
Yeah, I like that new version too. The forests look much more 'natural'.

rpgmapmaker
04-19-2010, 01:39 PM
So, first things first... your map is looking better, the trees are starting to be more integrated into the land. I just have one more suggestion for the trees. Add some other colors like orange and light green. Something like this...

23932

I commandeered a Google spy satellite and reconfigured it to take a quick snapshot of your map... (Thanks for letting me post it)

I used my Overworld Map Project (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?9911-Photoshop-7-Overworld-Map-Project) .psd file and was doing this to test the project on a land form with water around it... I will bet that the local fishermen did not know about the trenches just off the coast :)

23933

-RPGMapMaker

Bayonet_Chris
04-19-2010, 02:04 PM
I'll have to play around with the colors a bit. That googlespy view is pretty neat. I like the shelves and trenches!

jfrazierjr
04-19-2010, 03:20 PM
Yo Chris.... I like the latest over all... Let me know if you want to ask any questions on GIMP, you can email or call me if you need to.

HolyHair
04-19-2010, 06:12 PM
I realy like the forests in deldsheim2. One way that I add texture is a double bump layer, the second having an azumith(?) of plus/minus 30 degrees.

Bayonet_Chris
04-19-2010, 11:45 PM
OK, I added some orange to the forests, got the towns and villages in there, added some labels, a compass rose, and a map scale. It was pretty gratifying to get through this. I'm open to suggestions, but I'm pretty happy at where it is. Thanks for your help guys.

23948

arsheesh
04-20-2010, 12:06 AM
All and all I'd say this is an excellent first map. Hope you decide to continue to refine your new-found cartography skills here at the guild. Repped.

rpgmapmaker
04-20-2010, 01:12 AM
Way to press to the finish! As you learn and develop your mapping skills you will find that finishing a map is the hard part... great first map and nice town placement.

-RPGMM

jfrazierjr
04-20-2010, 09:59 AM
Chris, is there a Wand of Lobster Control to be found near Lobster Cove(inside joke from a gaming group Chris and I are players in)?

Bayonet_Chris
04-20-2010, 11:45 AM
Chris, is there a Wand of Lobster Control to be found near Lobster Cove(inside joke from a gaming group Chris and I are players in)?

Dude, I totally forgot about that! There could be. Again, thanks for your help everyone. Now onto the next project. :-)