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HandsomeRob
06-23-2010, 02:10 AM
Hi all,
I am trying a new mapping style for a new project I am working on... I'd like to emulate a Victorian, "Pirates of the Caribbean", Steampunk-ish map style. Here is what I've come up with so far. I'd appreciate feedback!

Thanks,
-Rob

Fransie
06-23-2010, 03:47 AM
Nice style. I'd try to make the heightlines a bit thinner.

ravells
06-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Hey Rob,

The style looks really familiar, but when I looked in various old atlases / map books lying around the place for a reference I couldn't quite find one that matched. I'm just wondering if you are going to age/grunge the map up whether the red road lines should slightly less saturated. Also, if you're going for an 'ink bleeding onto the page' look a tiny amount of outerglow in the same colour as the line helps with the effect.

Cheers

Ravs

Ilvarin
06-23-2010, 10:52 AM
I don't really have a frame of reference for a Victorian style map, but just on its own merits, this is a nice map. It communicates the lay of the land quite well. Cheerio!

HandsomeRob
06-23-2010, 05:20 PM
ravells-
I based the style primarily off of this thing:
Linky! (http://cgi.ebay.ca/MEXICO-CITY-authentic-Antique-Map-VERA-CRUZ-32x43-1897_W0QQitemZ200479013630QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item2ead7afafe)
which I found for sale on ebay.

I agree about making the hatching a bit smaller. Also, I think the forest might be a bit overpowering. I will try to screen it back some and alter the color to something a bit grungier.
Thanks for the tip about the roads, I will try it out.

Does anyone know of any good fonts or icon packs that feature lots of gears and clockwork type stuff? I'd like to add some of that in the cartouches.

Thanks!
-Rob

Ascension
06-23-2010, 05:40 PM
I can't think of any fonts with gears. You'd think that after years of steampunk there would be some cool ones. I know some ones with wheels, tires, clocks, pipes and caveman stone wheels and you could modify those but that's a hassle and they're all quite cartoony.

ravells
06-23-2010, 06:26 PM
There was a tuturial in 'photoshop creative' magazine (I think) a few months back (or was it last year?) which had a tutorial about making a steampunk font based on gears and such. It involved finding loads of images on the web of gears , fancy stone bits of churches etc, cutting them out with the pen tool and then putting them together in a grid (desaturated) to make the type and then colouring the word when done. Very time consuming. I found this on google (http://psd.tutsplus.com/tutorials/text-effects-tutorials/create-a-steam-powered-typographic-treatment-part-i/) - looks bloody good actually, althogh it's not the one. (I never even knew an 'expand appearance' tool existed) and there's 3d app stuff involved.

Iapetus
06-23-2010, 07:11 PM
I like where you're going with this, and the pattern used for the forests. I'm not too fond of seeing the red line go through the city symbols, though. (I'm assuming the red lines are roads.) I would delete the red lines in the circle.

I'm keeping my eye on this one!

HandsomeRob
06-24-2010, 11:29 AM
Iapetus: I know, the roads going right through the city symbols do seem odd to me (as a professional cartographer, it's just wrong). But it also appears to be the period style. I'll consider it - my instincts are to break the lines through the symbols, so maybe I should ignore the period style and just follow my instincts.

Ravells: Thanks for that tutorial! It's fantastic. I don't have the 4D software they use, but I was able to duplicate a lot of the effects in photoshop. Here's what I've come up with for the main title. Of course, it will end up being aged and grunged up a bit in the end, but I think it's a pretty good start.

Thanks!
-Rob

RobA
06-25-2010, 05:18 PM
Some Fonts/Dingbats:

http://www.1001fonts.com/font_details.html?font_id=8
http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/detail.htm?pid=402206
http://www.candycranks.com/archives/1939
http://www.fontspace.com/funk-king-fonts/beltway
http://www.fontspace.com/gaut-fonts/web-press
http://www.fontspace.com/gaut-fonts/gearbox
http://www.fontspace.com/funk-king-fonts/heath-robinson


And a few steampunk tutorials:
http://pizzabytheslice.com/make-a-steampunk-gear-using-photoshop-patterns-and-effects.htm
http://michan.deviantart.com/art/SteamPunk-Tutorial-77191545

Just think brass ;)

-Rob A>

tilt
06-28-2010, 05:25 AM
Very nice map you got going there... looking forward to seing it finished... agree with the others about the hatching...


I never even knew an 'expand appearance' tool existed.
Don't think I could live without expand appearance.. I use it all the time ... also use Psdtuts alot :)

Nice title you've made HRob, good work all over

ravells
06-28-2010, 05:44 AM
Ah my mistake, I thought that expand appearance was a ps tool, but it's used in AI. No wonder I hadn't seen it before!

tilt
06-28-2010, 07:22 AM
*lol*.. no, not if you don't use AI ;)

HandsomeRob
06-30-2010, 02:14 AM
Did a little more work tonight. I like these fonts a bit better, and I've taken most of the advice I've received so far.

Now I think it's just a matter of filling in detail for the rest of the map.

-Rob

RecklessEnthusiasm
06-30-2010, 03:38 AM
HandsomeRob - I have to give recognition where it is due: you are one talented guy! This is a neat new style, and I look forward to seeing how it grows and changes. Keep up the good work.

ravells
06-30-2010, 05:58 AM
Looking great Rob! The only thing I'm a little confused about is whether the large mass of forest is on a hill or in a valley. As I understand it the convention for the slope style you are using is that the points of the spikes point down the slope which suggest that the forest is in a valley, but a number of rivers seem to eminate from there which suggests that it is high ground.

best

Ravs

HandsomeRob
06-30-2010, 11:01 AM
Looking great Rob! The only thing I'm a little confused about is whether the large mass of forest is on a hill or in a valley. As I understand it the convention for the slope style you are using is that the points of the spikes point down the slope which suggest that the forest is in a valley, but a number of rivers seem to eminate from there which suggests that it is high ground.

best

Ravs

Hmm, I didn't know that. I assumed that the points pointed uphill. I'll have to get them turned around. I think I should space them out a bit more as well. The slopestyle is the one aspect of this map that I'm not really satisfied with yet. I might need to come up with a different way of representing relief.

I'm going for something similar to the attached, but not so "smudgy."



Thanks,
-Rob

ravells
06-30-2010, 04:09 PM
Oh crumbs, I'm begining to doubt myself now....I can't remember where I read or heard about the convention...the lines are called hachures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachure_map). Click the link for the wiki entries and the 'rules' for using them, but these are just lines rather than little triangles. Ah wow...I've found something really cool; a diagram of hachures and (phew) as you can see, the apexes of the triangles are pointing downhill. I found it here (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swaag.org/images/s3i38.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.swaag.org/publicationsSE5s3.htm&usg=__M2cGgkeGX3IFigP0sB7_9ELCHx4=&h=236&w=539&sz=13&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=ADwLDBbdDfkRFM:&tbnh=58&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtriangular%2Bhachures%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26tbs%3Disch:1) which is a pretty cool site on archeological mapping (we need more of that on this guild).

HRob, when I use linestyles in Drawplus to draw hachures and they point the wrong way, there is a command to 'reverse curve' which gets them pointing the other way - I assume you've done them in illustrator so it will have a similar command.

If you are using Illustrator you could make a linestyle (or whatever AI calls symbols along a line) of just plain lines and you can widen or narrow the spacing fairly easily to follow the rules.

alizarine
07-01-2010, 04:17 AM
Awesome map. Looks like a map my family owns, actually. Same style, with the "highlighter" borders and contour markings. Giant map of parts of Washington state and Canada, so it's a bit bigger than what you're going for, but you're really getting the "feel" brilliantly. The map of England you're using as 'reference' is a bit smudgy compared to the one we've got, so not-smudgy is still quite accurate ^.^ I wonder if the contour (hachure) lines point downhill on the one we've got? It'd be interesting to see if there was some sort of standard for that kind of thing.

- Alizarine

HandsomeRob
07-06-2010, 11:16 PM
I've decided to zoom out and get a world map together first, just so I have a better idea of how everything fits together.
This is still just a WIP, but I've filled in enough of it that I can show you the whole thing. The region shown in the prior attachments is part of the east-central coast of Barlovia (which is in the center of the southern hemisphere).

Gidde
07-06-2010, 11:47 PM
Looking good so far! Did you draw it and then curve it afterward, or draw it curved? The northernmost part of the western continent looks perfect for that map projection.

HandsomeRob
07-07-2010, 03:19 PM
Similar to the process I used with Sorol, I generated the landmasses using Fractal Terrains... but then I did a lot more manual tweaking to get them exactly how I want them. With FT I can easily reproject...

...I'm assuming that's what you mean when you say "curve it afterward"?

Gidde
07-07-2010, 07:44 PM
Yep, that's exactly what I meant, just a better word for it. Apparently I was tired last night ;)

Bill Hooks
07-14-2010, 05:56 PM
Hi, just wondering if I could ask a couple of questions:

1: Is the hachure brush used in the first map downloadable from somewhere, or is it your own design? If the latter, any tips on how you made it?

2: What fonts or font families did you use for these maps?

gilgamec
07-14-2010, 06:53 PM
This is absurdly gorgeous. You, sir, have been repped.

The only problem that jumps out is the forest pattern: it looks fine at the regional scale, but doesn't work on the world map. Another thing, which is an incredible nitpick, is the projection: the Winkel (if my eye doesn't deceive me) is a 20th-century projection; a 19th-century map would probably have used something cylindrical, or maybe a Mollweide.

Also: I, too, am curious about the fonts!

ravells
07-14-2010, 06:57 PM
Gilgamec....that comment about the Winkel projection is probably the coolest geeky (which I love) observation I have ever....ever seen on this forum.

Please everyone join me in giving gilgamec loads of rep!

best

Ravs

HandsomeRob
07-16-2010, 11:02 PM
Hey all,
I've finally finished a first draft of Barlovia. I've linked it here.

Now to finally respond to a few of these questions:

1: Is the hachure brush used in the first map downloadable from somewhere, or is it your own design? If the latter, any tips on how you made it?
I made it myself, in Illustrator, by drawing a few teardrop shapes and setting them side-by-side. I then drew a line with no stroke and no fill, and ran it over the top of the teardrop shapes. Select all and group, and then create a new brush from the group.


2: What fonts or font families did you use for these maps?
I wanted to use Bodoni, but I'd have to pay for it, so I used Bedini instead. I also used Intimacy and Nauert.


a 19th-century map would probably have used something cylindrical, or maybe a Mollweide.
Good point. I'll research it a bit and do the final world map in something more appropriate.

Gidde
07-16-2010, 11:05 PM
I *love* the gears in the title text. This looks fantastic.

Bill Hooks
07-16-2010, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the response!

Ascension
07-16-2010, 11:58 PM
Still on top of your game there HR. Well done.

Steel General
07-17-2010, 09:13 AM
Fantastic!!

arsheesh
07-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Great, now I have map envy! Great job Rob!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Diamond
07-19-2010, 03:54 PM
Great, now I have map envy! Great job Rob!
Indeed. :D

I think the best thing about this map is the sheer amount of detail and text you crammed in, and yet it's still completely neat and legible. Kudos!!

HandsomeRob
07-19-2010, 05:25 PM
I think the best thing about this map is the sheer amount of detail and text you crammed in, and yet it's still completely neat and legible. Kudos!!

Ha, and here's me thinking that I'm actually holding back on adding detail. I guess I'm addicted to detail.

That's actually one of the goals of this project, is to try not to add so much. I got bogged down with Sorol because every map required hundreds of new names, and it was exhausting after a while. So I wanted this world to be 1) smaller (success! The total land area is quite a bit less than on Sorol) and 2) less detailed (jury's still out I guess!).

New question: Should I retain this map style for other maps in the series, or should I come up with variations depending on the character of the region being mapped? I think I'd like to retain certain elements of the style but alter others... although I'm not sure if it would be worth the trouble.

Ascension
07-19-2010, 05:37 PM
I, myself, would try to make the maps look like they had different authors so if you're doing one kingdom then alter the style slightly for another kingdom. Fonts and colors (or lack of colors) are the easiest way to alter things but also line weight, hatching or cross-hatching or shading, style and detail of the inset images, etc. You probably have this figured out but if not I just gave ya some ideas :)

ravells
07-19-2010, 05:53 PM
I guess it all depends on what the client wants, what the reasons are for the variations and whether the variations would take too much time.

The map is beautiful, btw.

Gallifreyan
07-19-2010, 06:13 PM
That map is incredible! I have map envy too. >_>

BTW, I downloaded Bodoni for free from Urban Fonts (http://www.urbanfonts.com/fonts/Bodoni.htm).

Juggernaut1981
07-19-2010, 11:24 PM
*Takes out Rep-Whiffle Bat and wails away at you*
Nicely done dude...

HandsomeRob
07-20-2010, 10:44 AM
I guess it all depends on what the client wants, what the reasons are for the variations and whether the variations would take too much time.

Well the client is me, so I guess it depends on what I want.

I'm thinking that I'll retain the style of everything except the title text, which I'll vary from map to map. For example, the steampunk title style I used here would not be appropriate at all on the map of the Sabo Jungles, so I'll need to come up with a Darkest Africa-style title for that map. I like the other elements too much to use them on just one map, however.

Naeddyr
07-21-2010, 06:41 AM
This is really, really excellent. The names are just perfectly Britoid, and the style feels authentish. What did you use for the paper texture, I can see "postmark" there. :D Bodoni and Didot are excellent stereotypically 19th century fonts, and yes, Winkel isn't exactly the most 19th century of world map projections (but I myself used it for MINE anyway. Winkel II and Winkel triple are from the late 1910s/1920s so it's not that far-fetched :P)

HandsomeRob
07-21-2010, 01:52 PM
Hmmm, I went to steampunkwallpapers.com (or something like that) to find a good background image, and screened it way back in photoshop, and added a second paper texture that I found thru google image search. There's a watermark? Where is it, I need to know so I can brush it out.

Coyotemax
07-21-2010, 01:57 PM
I think he may be referring to the actual postmark that's blended into the bakground texturing.. The one right under "The Great Ocean" label looks very much like a stamped postmark off an envelope :)
(if i'm wrong, so be it, but it looks that way to me, heh)

Wonderful work you have there. Can't wait for it to finish so i can snag it for my inspiration folder!

HandsomeRob
07-21-2010, 02:37 PM
Okay, found it.
The background I used started from this:
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/024/9/2/Border_Steampunk_4_by_inspyretash_stock.jpg

So yeah, the word "postmark" is on there. And also, a pennyfarthing velocipede. I think I'll leave it.

I noticed a few of the mountain hatchures are pointed the wrong way - I'll get them fixed up later tonight and then I think I'll call this one done.

Thanks all!

gilgamec
07-31-2010, 02:18 PM
Bodoni and Didot are excellent stereotypically 19th century fonts, and yes, Winkel isn't exactly the most 19th century of world map projections (but I myself used it for MINE anyway. Winkel II and Winkel triple are from the late 1910s/1920s so it's not that far-fetched :P)
You know, I used to think that typography wonks who said that you can't use, say, 20th century fonts for 18th or 19th century texts were full of it. But really, using a Winkel on this obviously Victorian map is just ... wrong! I don't think it's a matter of invention date -- Winkel is the projection used in my National Geographic wall map, and my desk atlas, and seems irretrievably linked to "modern" maps. I know I suggested Mollweide in my earlier message, and it's from the early 19th century, but it's the map of mid-20th century atlases (I see a particular map of the tectonic plates whenever I think of the Mollweide projection) and wouldn't be any more appropriate than Winkel. The 19th century is Mercator, the British Empire coloured pink; or maybe something a little more modest, an equirectangular perhaps. The 18th century is a pair of globulars or Lamberts, one for each of Old and New Worlds.
Yeah, this is all subjective, I know, but I think it's an important part of the cohesiveness of a map -- maybe not as important as, say, fonts (sigh), but important nonetheless.

(As to your own maps: the style of your Ysi map is alien enough that it doesn't bear many projection expectations (besides maybe "pre-modern"), so a pair of Lamberts works fine. Your Steamopera world map isn't as highly polished, and I think it has balance issues, so the choice of projection isn't the most obvious problem. I suspect, though, that if you polished the map and made it more aggressively Victorian, the projection would be jarring.)

(And on topic -- HandsomeRob, the map is fantastic! It has now replaced your own modern style as my favourite map from this site. Awesome!)