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Crayons
07-26-2010, 03:51 PM
I noticed someone asking on where some knotwork used on a map border came from and that they were going to give it a go too.
I thought about it a bit and decided to try something myself.
Using POVRay I have genrated the three versions attached but they are only basic shaded shapes with normals imposed on them.
If anyone wants to use these as the starting point for something, please do. They will need further artistic work!
If I can help out by redoing the colour scheme, removing the normals or changing the lighting, or somesuch please let me know! I'm not entirely sure what format you're gonna want for something like this - or even if it helps at all in the first place.
In the mean time, I hope they are useful
27491

Gamerprinter
07-26-2010, 11:19 PM
I use a paid-for Celtic knot font, that's difficult to use, but with two different styles of knots and complex knotwork. Then I create the sliced beveled shapes and drop shadows beneath the font knots to give it that 3D effect. Since the knots end up rather rectangular, I sometimes make small squares of knots, then in Xara, I apply a shape envelope that forces the square into a circle. Otherwise I hand create more complex or specific designs that the font cannot handle. I usually put out two maps a year with Celtic knotwork borders.

As an aside, I recently learned that Celtic knotwork is not really Celtic. The Lindsfarne Book and the Book of Kells, both bibles illuminated by Irish monks in those communities named in those bibles. However, the artists were following a Danish knotwork tradition, they just happened to be in an Irish monastary at the time. So Celtic knotwork is really Danish knotwork - I'm doing lots of research for a Celtic setting, and that was a recent discovery.

GP

Crayons
07-27-2010, 11:39 AM
Historical "influences" across that entire period are likely to be widespread! The actual attribution of styles and methods is probably rather futile!:|
The Celts themselves didn't start in Ireland/Wales/Normandy anyway. That's just where the last pockets of the culture are still maintained. At some point it appears that "preservation" becomes an issue, superceding the previous cultural exchange aspects.

Like many cultures in Europe it's all rather messy historically :D

Gamerprinter
07-27-2010, 12:01 PM
Historical "influences" across that entire period are likely to be widespread! The actual attribution of styles and methods is probably rather futile!:|
The Celts themselves didn't start in Ireland/Wales/Normandy anyway. That's just where the last pockets of the culture are still maintained. At some point it appears that "preservation" becomes an issue, superceding the previous cultural exchange aspects.

Like many cultures in Europe it's all rather messy historically :D

As far as we know the Celts started with the Halstatt culture which was in the Danube valley and in Switzerland. And the Celts had moved to Spain, Po Valley Italy, the British Isles, Gaul/France, Galacia in Turkey and evidence exists that the Celts made it northern India.

Regarding the knotwork, Celts used rune symbols and swirls and other geometric figures as notable in stone carvings and other media, but noticeably no knotwork.

The Teutonic styled art - including viking art, saxon art does show evidence of knotwork used, so that is where I get my historical point. While its true that most European cultures come from a probably Indo-European original race (as language indicates this is true), the cultural art taken by various peoples are different enough to recognize some root source. Celtic knotwork is not Celtic by historical evidence.

Steel General
07-27-2010, 12:19 PM
Neat stuff Crayons, thx for posting.

Crayons
07-27-2010, 02:20 PM
As far as we know the Celts started with the Halstatt culture which was in the Danube valley and in Switzerland. And the Celts had moved to Spain, Po Valley Italy, the British Isles, Gaul/France, Galacia in Turkey and evidence exists that the Celts made it northern India.

Regarding the knotwork, Celts used rune symbols and swirls and other geometric figures as notable in stone carvings and other media, but noticeably no knotwork.

The Teutonic styled art - including viking art, saxon art does show evidence of knotwork used, so that is where I get my historical point. While its true that most European cultures come from a probably Indo-European original race (as language indicates this is true), the cultural art taken by various peoples are different enough to recognize some root source. Celtic knotwork is not Celtic by historical evidence.

I don't disagree with you on it not being Celtic, but to conclude it's Danish is probably a similar mistake to the Celtic one. You could also attribute it to Byzantine or Roman origins or, since the Celts "moved through" the Denmark area in their travels they may have "left" that design behind. It's not really all that important IMO, it is essentially the art of tracking "fashion" which strikes me as vaguely pointless exercise since it only really identifies trade communications - which we already know were widespread thoroughout the dark ages and long before.
They still look good though!! :D