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bartmoss
09-11-2010, 07:07 PM
So I have a confession to make. I started Yet Another World. I certianly did not WANT to but I had an idea today, one that I liked a fair bit. So I felt compelled to sit d down and begin building it. You know - while the idea was still fresh on my mind.

Let me explain with a little sketch:

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1) The world had a large - very large - underworld. This was mostly unknown above-ground, and it certainly did not matter much to the surface people. They built their societies up, founded cities, researched magic, whatnot. Not pictured in this step are the height of their achievement, flying cities.

2) Some day, The Catastrophe hit. Perhaps a meteor strike, perhaps an evil wizard who tried to destroy the world. Perhaps a god went on a rampage: At any rate, the Underworld collapsed. The oceans drained into the colossal caverns below, leaving the world above dry.

3) While the world above begins to try out and become a parched wasteland, the rubble from the collapse of the caverns turns into lush, new continents.

4) Status quo: The world is arranged into layers.

a) Flying cities - many of them died, too, but a few remain the last remnants of the old civilizations

b) Cloud layer - in a fantasy world, this might include floating islands, or there may be additional flying cities etc hidden here. Some mountains are probably high enough to reach the clouds.

c) The old surface world: Barren, dry, desert, except where rain keeps rivers flowing - his is very rare now because most of the water cycle happens underground. There may even be remnants of the oceans, depening on the outflow rate (I kind of envision having one old ocean around). The remains of the ancient civilizations are all over the place, and he remaining creatures and people fight a bitter war over dwindling food resources, or try to emigrate to the new continents etc. Think barsoomian deserts for the old surface world.

d) The former underworld. Much of it is still underworld, just flooded - creating shadowy subterranean oceans. The rubble piles have become overgrown continents, think Lost World type places.

e) Mmmh, perhaps there's more stuff even further down...

Anyway, I started mapping this world. It's very basic, but I figured I'd post a first WIP. Ignore the legend explaining water depths and land levation, right now it's simply a combination of the old surface, the new rubble continents, and the oceans. I hope it's fairly intuitive otherwise I'll post a better legend on the next WIP.

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Edit: Grammar.

sigurdbjohansson
09-11-2010, 08:28 PM
Like the concept!

Repped....

Steel General
09-11-2010, 08:58 PM
Neat idea, looking forward to seeing where you take this.

bartmoss
09-11-2010, 09:54 PM
Thanks guys.

This is the current WIP - first the underworld:

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Then the old surface world:

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Very rough around the edges - literally - but it's generally what I have in mind.

mearrin69
09-12-2010, 12:48 AM
Looking nice. Have some rep for a new and interesting concept. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
M

Soixante
09-12-2010, 02:54 AM
This is really cool. Gets my imagination going.

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 10:48 AM
Thanks guys. I do wonder if this has been done before, I usually end up finding out that my "original" ideas were known to me all along. :P

Not that that stops me from doing what I enjoy doing.

New WIP: Minor update to the "surface world".

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Marken4
09-12-2010, 11:16 AM
1. This is sooo cool
2. Except the flying cities - Thats sorta lame ^^
3. Is that a ocean that hasn't collapsed? (On your latest wip.. If so.. Shouldn't there be some green areas around it?

Have som rep :D (Always wanted to say that..)

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 11:48 AM
The cities will work. Trust me on that. ;) This is clearly a high fantasy setting (such a huge underworld could never exist otherwise), and since the concept calls for multiple layers, what else can I put up into the air? If you have any clever ideas, by all means and quite seriously, please do not hold back. :-)

I do want them to have a sleek, almost technological look, not the Krynn type floating fortresses that ripped a bit of earth out of the ground with them (or Dalaran, if you play World of Warcraft - I hate that look). They will mostly consist of interconnected individual buildings, but of course some larger public spaces and parks do exist too. Most - not all! - of the flying cities are as dead as the civilization on the ground, however. Supply problems: They depended on food imports and those ceased quite suddenly. Floating cities or houses etc won't have more supplied stored than necessary.

In addition to the layers I depicted in the drawing I do have two more that I am thinking about: Subterra, an Underworld underneath the Underworld. Some of it got flooded, but not all. What lurks here is anybody's guess, but creatures that live that far down must be utterly alien. I also thought of having an actual, factual hell in the molten core of the planet - Since this is clearly not a "natural" planet (no plate tectonics) one could do that, but unless I can come up with a good twist then yes that'd be a tad lame. I briefly considered the Collapse to be the consequence of the gods trying to drown out Hell with water, but, what can I say, that idea came to me as I was falling asleep at my desk at 3am. :p

The other layer, of course, is "above the skies". Again since this is not a natural world I can probably get away with giving it rings AND moons. That gives me another 1-3 layers, depending on your definitions: Low orbit; The Rings; and The Moons. Again with a high fantasy setting I can get away with anything, including various ways of connecting the world and the rings and moons (portals or even a Space Elevator / Beanstalk type construct).

I am really not convinced I'll include that, it may give me some fancy exotic settings for adventures / stories, but I have a feeling the setting will be tighter, more focused without them.

Excuse the rambling. ;)

Anyway, yes, that is indeed an uncollapsed ocean. I did some math, and it turns out that even with a HUGE waterfall, draining an ocean the size of, say, the Atlantic, can take hundreds or thousands of years. There's just a LOT more water in them than we can easily imagine. (The oceans more in the central part of the map just basically collapsed all at once, so the process was faster.)

There are some green areas around it, the current map does not show rivers or vegetatoion yet. Basically the only areas of vegetation left on the surface world are where there's enough rain to form rivers. Think Nile river. That flat area encircled on 3 sides by ocean and on the east by higher ground looks like it should be prarie / steppe, for example. Will have to work on that at some point.

sigurdbjohansson
09-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Btw... What font is the title?

Marken4
09-12-2010, 02:14 PM
Okey.. You convinced me, the cities isn't that lame anymore, and I guess you got a reason for having floating cities too, 'cause if they had the technology to make flying cities they would probably be pretty far into the future, which again predicts a pretty populated world. (sorry for my english)

I'll keep stalking this map

jbgibson
09-12-2010, 03:56 PM
If you want to make it possible but difficult to get from level to level, you could have half a beanstalk... or more than one... dangling from low orbit (hey, you imply you were using only physics that make things work, right?) Every so often the drifting sky cities snag on it (or on them). Perhaps one of the broken-off lower stalk pieces trails from old-surface down into lower-level ocean or rubble-continent. Maybe a large sky city even caused one of the stalk breaks by running into one during The Catastrophe , and itself drifts with a piece of stalk dragging on the higher bits of remaining ground.

On a map the result of that last might be visible scratch marks, aligned with the prevailing winds aloft. Maybe the whole base station is still attached to the bottom of the trailing bit - the ground failed, not the stalk's no-doubt immensely strong fiber.

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 04:19 PM
The font is Aquiline Two: http://www.dafont.com/aquiline-two.font
Which seems to be a clone of: http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/grouptype/aquiline/

Ascension
09-12-2010, 06:38 PM
A2 is less dramatic in that the swashes are not as long in the capital letters as in A1. Other than that they're the same.

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 07:22 PM
Okey.. You convinced me, the cities isn't that lame anymore, and I guess you got a reason for having floating cities too, 'cause if they had the technology to make flying cities they would probably be pretty far into the future, which again predicts a pretty populated world. (sorry for my english)

I'll keep stalking this map

Your English is fine mate. - I don't mean they are necessarily technological (though I may throw that in, too) just that I am going with a more modern feel to the floaty things, cause I really do dislike the way it's usually done. To me, something that floats should be light and, well, airy, not fly the way a brick usually doesn't.



If you want to make it possible but difficult to get from level to level, you could have half[I] a beanstalk... or more than one... dangling from low orbit (hey, you imply you were using only physics that make things work, right?) Every so often the drifting sky cities snag on it (or on them). Perhaps one of the broken-off lower stalk pieces trails from old-surface down into lower-level ocean or rubble-continent. Maybe a large sky city even [I]caused one of the stalk breaks by running into one during The Catastrophe , and itself drifts with a piece of stalk dragging on the higher bits of remaining ground.

On a map the result of that last might be visible scratch marks, aligned with the prevailing winds aloft. Maybe the whole base station is still attached to the bottom of the trailing bit - the ground failed, not the stalk's no-doubt immensely strong fiber.

Oh I like this, thanks!

Edit: No, not only physics - it is a high fantasy setting, but if you can use physics to achieve something then you don't need to resort to the supernatural.

A.J.A.
09-12-2010, 09:30 PM
One way of putting up a higher layer would be to encase the whole thing in a worldhouse, which is basically a transparent sphere surrounding the whole planet. You'll want it some distance away from the atmosphere, otherwise high-pressure zones will create hurricane force winds all the time. It probably implies a smaller planet because the whole reason for building one is to keep the atmosphere from drifting away to space when the gravity isn't enough to do it naturally. Or maybe they needed extra radiation shielding.

Maybe instead of being transparent all the way around it's made of segments of material in geometric shapes, with "seams" in between, which are actually transportation corridors linking together the cities, which are placed at the intersections. Some or all will have elevators down to the surface (although I'm pretty sure you have to be near the equator for a beanstalk to work, otherwise it won't stay still relative to the surface -- maybe a pole would work too). You can imagine who might still live up there.

From the surface all you could see would be the lines and the circles on which the cities sit, and if you're lucky a beanstalk, otherwise it's just a clear sky like the one we're familiar with on Earth.

mearrin69
09-12-2010, 09:39 PM
Interesting idea. Never heard of that before. Would something like that be stable? I remember the Niven discussion of ringworld orbital mechanics but don't know the hows and whys.
M

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 09:54 PM
The world-in-a-sphere is interesting, it never occured to me someone could do the crystal spheres idea in a high tech scenario. I do doubt it's stable - even if you impart the exact same momentum on the sphere as the planet has, you'll get friction with the atmosphere etc and eventually the planet and the sphere will collide.

Doesn't mean it couldn't be used though, in a fantasy world, everything is possible. And the job of those cities at the seams might exactly be to keep the sphere in stable, say by utilizing some form of antigravity devices. If the "glass" can change its color, it could be used to control the influx of sunlight on to the planet. Think global warming. In wartime, it could become a nasty weapon: Just switch off the sunlight in your enemy's country. They don't dare shoot down the glass sphere, not only would it doom the planet if we assume it was built for an important enough reason - the destroyed sphere would also fall down on the person shooting at it!

This idea's definitely going into the scrapbook :-)

For this particular world though I think I prefer the floating cities to be unachnored. The glass sphere doesn't give our protagonists more space to adventure in, and if the cities float freely, they can crash individually, drift away and "get lost", and so on. Of course I could have both free-floating city and the sphere. I'll have to think about that.

A.J.A.
09-12-2010, 10:06 PM
I'm pretty sure it could be. If nothing else it can be built to support its weight against the centrifugal force of pieces of iron rotating around the planet, contained magnetically inside cables, in the way proposed for launch loops (http://launchloop.com/) and supramundane planets (http://www.paulbirch.net/SupramundanePlanets.pdf). There's nothing implausible here except the scale, but who knows what scales will be possible in the future?

I've actually been toying with the idea of a multi-layered world based on the supramundane concept. Birch's original proposal only seems to contemplate one level, the surface. But adding a second, lower one doubles the usable space, adding two triples it, and so on. A supra-Jupiter already has 318 times the surface area of the Earth, so the amount of territory in such a world becomes ever more unimaginably vast. Maybe Jupiter needs a worldhouse too. They've got lots of radiation because it gets caught up by Jupiter's magnetic fields, after all.

There's no reason two settings can't have cities embedded in worldhouses...

bartmoss
09-12-2010, 10:58 PM
Thanks - that'll be an interesting read, at least. I am really not sure about the stability aspect, I am hardly a physicist. It seems to me that such a system would have to be in perfect equilibrium, or it would become unstable eventually. One of the beauties of planets is that, barring any collisions with other planets or similar objects, their lifespan is that of their primary. At any rate, it may make a really interesting setting. Just as we can use Ringworlds, we can use this too. I still don't see that it really adds to the collapsed world setting though.

bartmoss
06-21-2011, 02:59 AM
Taking a short break from the Earth 2174 map work, I was going to draw a map for the battle challenge, but instead I felt compelled to work on this one. I do have an issue with Inkscape choking on this map, though. When I found "The Edge", a shared world being worked on at The Piazza, I decided to steal their methods create Collapsing World v2.

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Not much to say about this, yet. This is the surface world only. As you can see I decided to scale down the collapsed areas found on my original map, and instead add more breaches. This should make for much more interesting terrain in the long run.

I created the template in Inkscape, but decided to draw the actual maps in Paint.NET. Later maps will be a combination of Paint.Net and Inkscape.

bartmoss
06-21-2011, 05:09 PM
Update - these are the collapsed areas; the dark gray is basically the debris - the "new continents". The blue thing in the west is the last remaining surface ocean.

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bartmoss
06-22-2011, 02:49 AM
Alright, we're getting somewhere. Current WIP:
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I've added a bunch of general notes with Inkscape, most should be fairly self-explanatory.
The "Last Civilization" area is a remnant of the once flourishing civilization of the surface world; the guys in this area resisted falling into anarchy long enough to build a series of dams; rainfall in the old continent to their east flows down in rivers and is kept here in a gigantic reservoir, allowing them to irrigate a large area.

Jaxilon
06-22-2011, 03:09 AM
This is a cool layout. I have been planning to do a map using this sort of layout but I haven't gotten around to it myself. Glad to see it, keep up the great work you are doing.

bartmoss
06-23-2011, 02:19 AM
Thanks - yeah this map is fairly fun to draw so far (unlike my Earth 2174 map which is hard work).

Updated WIP:
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I just spent 90 minutes adding that south polar region.

Other than that, the only thing I did iirc is shrink the "last civilization" sea.

bartmoss
06-24-2011, 02:27 AM
Alright, finished another update of this map. No huge changes; basically filled in the empty parts of the map with more ancient continents. I'll let it sit for a while, maybe fill in a few details here and there, but for the most part I think I will call this "done".

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ravells
06-24-2011, 04:49 AM
This is looking really good bartmoss! I really like the simplicity of the design and the colours.

bartmoss
06-24-2011, 06:03 AM
Thank you. What I learned from this map is that the fact that I can't add too much detail (there is a fixed resolution) makes progress much faster. I'll probably use raster images more in the future.

bartmoss
06-24-2011, 11:43 AM
Uploaded final version with slightly more detail, this map is done. See Final Maps thread (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?15062-Collapsed-World). ;)

bartmoss
06-29-2011, 08:54 PM
Bah! I discovered that I messed up my template. So I just spent about two hours fixing the map for the new, corrected, template. Anyway, now thi s map can shine with a hex grid:

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Phew.