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RecklessEnthusiasm
10-08-2010, 03:43 PM
So, I had a brief chat with IndustryGothica a while back about how I was interested in getting involved with the CWPB, and I recently decided I might take the plunge and give it a shot. So, I browsed through the wiki and these forums in an effort to figure out how to jump in. To be honest, it is incredibly nebulous, and hard to get a handle on as a newcomer--I'd imagine that is the biggest hurdle to a huge project like this. I see a good number of "I'd be interested in helping but I don't know how to go about getting started" posts.

I have a simple idea (either one of those 'so simple its brilliant' or 'so simple it must have already been thought of and rejected' type things). It goes like this: One of the Big Dogs who has a good handle on how the project works (Redrobes, IndustryGothica, Torq, Ravells, etc.) come up with a list of a few specific areas that could do with expanding and make a monthly post in the Mapmaking Request Forum. I know I for one would be a lot more eager to jump in in I saw something like this--I wouldn't be worried that I was jumping on anyone else's toes, or going about it wrong. Also, if it was a monthly post, people might not have to wade through threads 15-20 pages deep to figure out what they need to do.

A few maps from each 'category' each month would be great:
-Two or three regional scale maps an image/grid showing what area of what region could use expanding (even better if there could be some kind of template to work from like the approximate overlay from Ravell's map here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?1769-World-Pictures).
-Two or three cities that have yet to be mapped
-A couple temples/forests/underground networks that could use battle maps.

I'd be pumped to see something like this become a regular feature, and I know I'd pick one up whenever I wasn't busy with other projects. If it isn't crossing a line I haven't had the good sense to see yet, I think I am going to try and start this myself but feel free to delete the thread in this isn't welcome (again, I am terrified that I am stepping on toes or going about this wrong).

Crayons
10-08-2010, 04:01 PM
Actually, rather than filling up a forum with such posts you could just put the list on the wiki itself. People could update the list vis-a-vis - "I'm doing this one", "Unallocated" and so forth, themselves?

mearrin69
10-08-2010, 04:15 PM
I think this is a pretty good idea. I've been slow to complete my one (albeit major) contribution to the CWBP but did find it hard to figure out how to get started. Putting a list of open "reqs" on the Wiki's not a bad idea but putting them in the help wanted forum will better serve to put it in front of people that might not have considered taking part in the project.
M

ravells
10-08-2010, 04:24 PM
I'd really like us to revisit the whole CWBP project and do it from scratch with some coherent end in mind to make it a living world. The guild has matured incredibly from when we first started on the CWBP.

For example: I saw IG's post about an RPG he was running which was set in the CWBP - something involving us all expanding outwards from a point (so the players/DM have maps galore) would be good.

Or: We actually make something like a Greyhawk world map with descriptive text leading the mapmaking.

Or: We have some sort of simple Guild game (I'm not sure how this would work) in which there is some sort of RPG aspect to the mapmaking. E.g. Cartographers get sent hither and yon to map a bit, but they might not make it there or back again alive.

We really could make this project immersive and fun which I think will encourage all guild members to have a bash at doing the mapping.

RecklessEnthusiasm
10-08-2010, 04:29 PM
Crayons - Do you think trying one post a month in the Map Making Request forum would be cluttering the place up too much? I was thinking along the same lines as Mearrin--I would bet if there was a single post with a small list and a good chunk of detail and guidelines in once place (a brief step-by-step), it might seem more attractive and welcoming to people, whereas editing a wiki feels so formal, to me at least. But I like the idea of having links to all the areas and having a "This area needs a map" tag attached to the empty links. But you might have a point--If anyone else thinks this is a bad idea, I'll consider this vetoed. Otherwise, maybe I'll try it once and see what happens?

Ravells - I had similar thoughts. I doubt anyone would want to throw away the awesome contributions the guild has already, but having a small area to focus on absolutely sounds like the way to go: Rather than making a patchwork world and working from the outside in, starting with a small setting and fleshing outwards would give DMs enough material to start an adventure. It was IG's post that inspired me, actually: I figure picking one region, then a few cities and areas that are right next to each other and prompting for maps would be a lot of fun, and more useful than a bunch of disparate cities so far apart that no PCs could ever travel from one to the other. And IG has kindly provided a convenient starting point!

Crayons
10-08-2010, 05:06 PM
Actually, I think both aspects are useful. You and mearrin are right, it needs to attract people - and I hope to have a go myself but came across the same sorts of issues you mentioned.
However, threads have a tendency to fill up, or distract. The current Request forum is probably best left as it is for other projects and have another sub forum for CWBP "requests" as a more internal function.
The wiki page is just something that would provide a one page "status" of each request.
All this does need managing tho! It could be that the status is just a constantly edited "sticky" - that would work.

industrygothica
10-08-2010, 11:23 PM
While it could use some tweaking, I made this (http://cwbp.cartographersguild.com/index.php?title=Category:Unmapped_Location) this category for unmapped locations quite some time ago. It's not much, but it's a start...


-IG

Crayons
10-09-2010, 04:55 PM
IG: Yes, tweaking!:D
If it were tabulated and had a "Being done by" column, that is updated as people take on the task? That would be the basics covered, I think?

It's one thing to keep track of who's doing what, it's another to get them into CWBP in the first place, so "advertising" each change/addition to the table in its own "Request" forum in the main section of CG might accomplish that - linking to the table too, of course. It's all very "tidy" having CWBP all bundled on its own but it rather hides things away too?

Redrobes
10-09-2010, 05:33 PM
Yes yes ! The thing I tried to do in my area was to make a small section so detailed that you could start to game in that region so people might like to play in it so that when they stepped foot into an area that was not mapped that they might post their un-detailed hacky map and we could then do something about it to freshen that area up a bit. Then the likelihood is that we would get an area fully mapped and ready to use by non mappers. I don't care which area that is but that's what id like to see. Were gaming with IG around Port Magalie in the Witchlights area and IG is making a few maps for that but we need more people to game in it generally. Id not like to completely restart the CWBP but I would like to focus on one area and do more detail just there. I think we could do a better job next time but redoing the amount of maps in there so far is not really a goer.

I reckon there is a feeling that were a bit too protective about regions but we should just map anything we like even if that means having multiple maps of an area in a collision situation. Obviously better to do different areas but Id rather people just mapped than hold off in case of colliding.

So to answer the original post - yes id like to see map requests but being driven from people gaming who need the map for that area not just random points sprayed over the map. Maybe the gamers could just rough sketch what they did or would expect from the place as a kind of starting point to make it fit with their current game. I was always hoping that we could not only have all the maps but maybe some game mechanics text for the areas too from peoples adventures.

industrygothica
10-09-2010, 10:22 PM
I think Redrobes has brought up a valid point. There really is no reason that anyone can't map an area that has already been mapped, or take two areas--or portions of two areas--and merge them into a single map. In fact, I think it would be kind of neat to see multiple maps of the same area done by different people. Hell, even updated maps done by the original artists... I can't tell you how many times I've thought of redoing the Witchlight Strand.

That being said, a cartographer would have to realize that, in most cases, an area's history has already been written, and that a re-imagined map does not include a re-imagined history. Unless, of course, that history is an account from a certain sect of peoples or whatever. For instance, I'd love to see a map from the perspective of the Stoutlings in The Hallows of the Tawaren Basin, which may include their version of the history of that area... to include the onset of the Plague and the devastation that followed.


-IG

Crayons
10-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Weeeell. One good reason not to is...
If the aim is to complete a world it's duplication of effort.

jtougas
10-09-2010, 10:46 PM
I find myself looking at the wiki quite a bit but like so many rookies I'm not really sure what needs to be done and what doesn't. I'd really like to get involved.

industrygothica
10-10-2010, 01:45 AM
Weeeell. One good reason not to is...
If the aim is to complete a world it's duplication of effort.

I'm not sure that the aim is necessarily to have a "complete" world, more than an interesting and playable one.


I find myself looking at the wiki quite a bit but like so many rookies I'm not really sure what needs to be done and what doesn't. I'd really like to get involved.

If you're looking for one of the original 30 areas that hasn't been mapped, you're not going to find one. There are a few that have only been roughly put together that have almost no history whatsoever, and I'm sure someone wouldn't mind if you took them over and did something with them (areas 2 & 3 spring to mind). There are countless cities to be mapped, as well as any notable structures you'd want to put in a given town or city.

If you're wanting to do an overland regional map, I'd suggest picking a town anywhere in Ansium, zooming out to a 100-200 mile square (each original block is 600 miles on a side), and mapping the surrounding terrain as well as any smaller towns or villages that might be nearby. You can do this with almost any city labeled on any map. Just like if you're looking at real world maps, you're not going to see the smaller towns until you get to a more localized map.

You've read the wiki. What inspires you? What area makes you want to game there? Which one are you dying to know more about? If it's the history you're worried about, don't be. Ask the original artist. If you can't get in touch with him, ask a Community Leader. Honestly, as the only one of the three "supervising editors" still active around here, you can ask me (see this (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?1868-The-CWBP-Wiki-is-Now-Open.&p=17829&viewfull=1#post17829) post about the supervising editor bit--I almost forgot about it myself. :/ ).

If you're still having trouble finding something, get in touch with me and I'll point you somewhere. In fact, start with the Jaiyat Highlands... looks to have been abandoned quite some time ago.

12rounds
10-10-2010, 06:24 AM
For anyone interested in getting involved you can do it the way I did: just *DO* it!

There are so many places in the world that has no information on the inhabitants, power groups of the area, history and legends, possible adventure seeds, interesting locations including their mapping etc etc. Then there are some areas that have vaguely been touched by some of the threads in the forum and some that outline some more details. One can start from scratch on areas not touched by anyone or one can expand on the work already done. In fact it would be quite interesting to see more people active on, say, what Rhadim looks and feels like or what secrets do the cities of Akron hold.

industrygothica
10-10-2010, 11:12 AM
So I did a bit of research this morning. Here is a current list of the state of all the regional maps and their respective wiki entries.


Abandoned maps can be reassigned with approval from a Community Leader
Placeholder maps can probably be reassigned with approval from Redrobes, the creator of the placeholder maps
Completed maps with no wiki entry are begging for a creative history, no art required
Incomplete wiki entries are also wanting non-cartographic attention
Completed map with completed wiki entries are available for city and other lower-level mapping

* Be advised that my definition of complete as compared to others' may differ to varying degrees.


1- The Ash Coast Completed map No wiki entry
2- Cheldabur Placeholder map No wiki entry
3- Cheldabur Placeholder map No wiki entry
4- Cazgothe Abandoned (06.20.08) No wiki entry
5- Charnok Placeholder map No wiki entry
6- Thanelands of Skolvendun Completed map Incomplete wiki entry
7- Thrubmorton Fens Completed map Complete wiki entry
8- Lake Kingdoms Completed map No wiki entry
9- Qashya Mal Completed map Complete wiki entry
10- Qashya Mal, Central Steppe Completed map Complete wiki entry
11- City states of Akron Completed map Complete wiki entry
12- Beastlands Completed map Complete wiki entry
13- Groam Completed map Complete wiki entry
14- Tawaren Basin Completed map Complete wiki entry
15- Jaiyat Highlands Abandoned (07.25.08) Complete wiki entry
16- Kouver Islands Abandoned (08.07.09) Incomplete wiki entry
17- The Outer Islands Completed map No wiki entry
18- Luwath Peninsula Completed map Complete wiki entry
19- The gallant Coast Reassigned (08.03.10) No wiki entry
20- The Riverlands Completed map Complete wiki entry
21- [empty ocean]
22- [empty ocean]
23- Thargellian Highlands Completed map Complete wiki entry
24- [empty ocean]
25- The Witchlight Strand Completed map Complete wiki entry
26- Grelda Completed map Incomplete wiki entry
27- Anuroch Completed map Incomplete wiki entry
28- Khosses Abandoned (07.08.08) No wiki entry
29- Mythkhardia Completed map No wiki entry
30- Bruskos Completed map Complete wiki entry

I certainly hope this helps someone who is interested in joining the project.


-IG

mearrin69
10-10-2010, 11:31 AM
I still haven't completed my contribution but I just sort of picked a likely looking city location and started mapping, writing story as I went. Mine (Argria) is on the border of two regions (IG's Anuroch is one) so I read through the available histories and other information and just added things that didn't conflict with (and that expanded usefully) the background that the original regional cartographers had included.

I'd like to find time to get more involved...finish the one I've already chosen and move on to something else. I might stay in the area (the Stoneshapers' Guild is in need of detailing, I think) or pick somewhere else. My gaming groups' roleplaying plates are pretty full but I wouldn't mind maybe trying to game a little in Argria and the surrounding areas. If so, I think that'd generate some more maps that could be contributed.
M

Redrobes
10-10-2010, 12:58 PM
I would say that with placeholder maps especially then there is no need to get any permission - just start mapping. I could help out with height map and the original place holder raster but I wouldn't think anyone needs to ask my permission to map anything. Even in my Thrubmorton region id rather people just map it than not map because they thought they would be stepping on peoples toes. All that I would hope for is that new maps fit in with the surrounding stuff otherwise the CWBP would be just a bucket of disparate maps. There is so much uncharted territory that I cant think of a reason why anyone would want to start new areas. I think the best thing is to pick a region for which your artistic style matches so it looks a little better fit but even then I would not hold it against anyone if they went and did a wildly different style map.

If your just thinking of mapping a town, village, city, church, castle, inn, building, docks or whatever for no reason than the hell of it and you dont mind the CC license then look for something similar in the CWBP and map it for that and submit it for indexing into the wiki.