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Katto
01-02-2011, 05:04 PM
Oh no, not now. It took a long time for me to find a suitable 3D program. After testing a lot of programs I've spent some time with Wings3D, until I've discovered Silo3D.
Finally I've finished my first little project. These are the barrels you can see in the picture with complete UV mapping, rendered in Bryce.
Motivated by that I want to create a medieval like city block, consisting of randomly placed buildings. To keep things simple at first and to learn more I started to create a well-house. Here is a first draft. I will add a suitable entrance and a few windows in the next post.

Ascension
01-02-2011, 05:17 PM
I always wanted to do this as well but never had the patience to stick with it. I hope you make some really cool houses so that I can use them :) So far it looks good.

ravells
01-02-2011, 07:34 PM
Glad you went with Silo, I think it's wonderful! Those barrels look great! Are you using a normal map? I didn't realise that Bryce supported normal maps.. Looking great so far Katto!

Katto
01-03-2011, 12:09 PM
Thanks guys! Silo is indeed a wonderful program, easy to learn and very intuitive to work with. I use Bryce since 6.3 and I think the option to use normal maps was implemented there.

su_liam
01-03-2011, 12:43 PM
A bump map is a little different and slightly less effective than a normal map. A normal map uses values of red, green and blue to denote slope components along three directions spread 120 apart. a bump map is essentially just a greyscale map showing displacement relative to the basic surface of the model object. These both merely alter the texture of the surface by adding the appearance of variations in light and shadow. A displacement map is similar to the terrain maps in Bryce, it actually alters the geometry of the object by displacing points in the surface through space. Bryce lacks normal mapping and, except for terrain and symmetry objects, displacement. I'm not sure if 7 has added to either of these capabilities.

ravells
01-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Ah, yes, as Su Liam says, that's a bump map, not quite as good as a normal map. Anyway, if it's any help, here's an .sib file of a house I made.

Best

Ravs

Katto
01-03-2011, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the explanation su_liam! I didn't thought there is a difference between normal and bump maps, now I know. Displacement is supported with Bryce 7 Pro, but I haven't tried it yet. It was quite buggy in the initial release.
Btw, a little progress with the wellhouse.

Katto
01-05-2011, 10:19 AM
I think I have the final shape.

Katto
01-07-2011, 02:21 PM
I finished the UV mapping, but won't do any texturing until I have created a few buildings. There this is my first more "complex" model I will share it. Feel free to misuse and texture it as you like (as long as you will show the results here :)).
Oh, it is a *.obj file.

Katto
01-10-2011, 05:05 PM
Damn, that will be a lot of work. I hope I will finish it.

ravells
01-10-2011, 05:06 PM
And that's just one building.....best of luck Katto!!

Gidde
01-10-2011, 10:07 PM
Wow, that is incredibly cool! I've always wanted to try some 3d modeling, but I have enough trouble with 2d lol.

Katto
01-11-2011, 09:13 AM
Thanks Ravs and Gidde. At the moment I think of 5 different buildings, each with a few variations. Then I will see what I can do with them.
Gidde: The key to 3d modeling is an easy to use, but also powerful tool. Silo is fantastic.
Here is a small variation of the first house.

ravells
01-11-2011, 10:37 AM
I did a model of a church a while back...it may be handy ? I've zipped the .sib file for you and attached it.

Don't laugh too much at my horrible mesh!

Best

Ravs

Katto
01-11-2011, 12:29 PM
Thanks for sharing Ravs. I will add it when I have enough buildings, then we'll see how it fits. Hey, the mesh is not that bad, let's call it pre-optimization phase ;) Sometimes its impossible to remove all tris and n-gons.

jtougas
01-12-2011, 10:23 PM
looks awesome :) makes me want to go back to 3d modeling. :)

Katto
01-14-2011, 08:40 AM
Thanks JT! It is much work, but I think the result will be worth it. Here is another preview.

Gidde
01-14-2011, 10:28 AM
This project is just inspiring. You're making me want to have another go (and probably another failure) at 3d modeling!

Steel General
01-15-2011, 08:59 AM
Neat, looks like something out of the movie "A Knight's Tale"

Katto
01-15-2011, 02:37 PM
Thanks Steel, never seen the movie. I think this is the shape I will work with.

ravells
01-15-2011, 06:22 PM
This is looking fantastic, Katto!!!!

ravells
01-17-2011, 10:46 AM
Hey Katto, I ordered the new Silo reference guide book: 3D Modelling in Silo: the Official Guide. It arrived today and it's pretty good. 2/3rds of it is on organic modelling and 1/3 on hard surface modelling. I've flipped though it and am pretty impressed. Check it out!

Katto
01-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Thanks ravells, hope you bought the ebook version. I ordered the book in December, because I thought it was perfect to learn Silo's interface. And it was. The book is really good, easy to follow, BUT I hope you also ordered a magnifier, because the selected edges are often hard to recognise. Don't forget to download the bonus chapters.
Oh and save OFTEN, best to note the filename next to the paragraph, because you always notice a few pages further, that you have made a mistake ;)

ravells
01-17-2011, 12:11 PM
I'm old fashion and bought the dead tree....I'll just have to use a magnifying glass! Where do I get the bonus chapters from?

Katto
01-17-2011, 12:25 PM
As noted in the introduction chapter or here (http://booksite.focalpress.com/companion/ward/). Just scroll down, you will find links to the WIP's and bonus chapters.

ravells
01-17-2011, 12:39 PM
Brilliant, thanks Katto. The book only arrived today and it will be awhile before I can read it while working through the examples.

I just don't know how some people who retire say that they are bored and don't know what to do with themselves. I'd be able to fill my day and more. I just need to be able to retire!!!

Katto
01-22-2011, 05:39 PM
I tested a lot of textures and that's the style that I like most. Of course, I will try a few variations also, what do you think?

ravells
01-22-2011, 05:48 PM
I think it looks great, looks really natural. This is a bit of poetry you're doing here, katto!

jtougas
01-22-2011, 06:42 PM
Incredible. Those textures are right on :)

Gidde
01-22-2011, 06:46 PM
Fantastic, Katto!

Katto
01-25-2011, 04:53 PM
Thanks Gidde, ravells and jtougas for your support so far! I need a break from this project, started to mix shortcuts from PS and Silo, bored to make the same steps in PS etc. I promise that this will be finished, but it's not a kind of poetry. Just hard work :)

Gidde
01-25-2011, 04:59 PM
Maybe, but it's work I couldn't dream of doing at the moment, so it is indeed poetry :) That looks so awesome. Take your break, but I'm dying to see this finished.

ravells
01-26-2011, 03:37 AM
Hey Katto, have you got CS4 extended? That allows you to 'paint' directly onto .obj models which is pretty cool. you can look at your texture maps in real time as well.

Katto
01-30-2011, 04:52 PM
I use the extended version of PS4, but the painting option is not helpful for anorganic meshes (horizontal/vertical alignment). I can't keep my hands off it and textured the last remaining buildings. The last thing to do are the doors and windows. I've tried one building so far, but I am not happy with the result yet. I'll keep trying to achieve what I have in mind.
On the right you can see the building with applied bump maps.

Gidde
01-30-2011, 05:33 PM
Wow. Just, wow. And I really don't see what the problem is with the door and windows, I love them.

jtougas
01-30-2011, 05:48 PM
Thanks Gidde, ravells and jtougas for your support so far! I need a break from this project, started to mix shortcuts from PS and Silo, bored to make the same steps in PS etc. I promise that this will be finished, but it's not a kind of poetry. Just hard work :)

Your right it's not poetry its MAGIC..Just incredible. I feel like I could walk down that street. I think I can smell bread baking. :)

arsheesh
01-30-2011, 06:06 PM
Wow Katto, that is really something! Keep up the good work man, this is looking fantastic.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Aval Penworth
01-30-2011, 08:42 PM
Impressive.
:)

monks
01-30-2011, 10:59 PM
Cool project Katto. Keep it up and enjoy it! ;)

If you want some inspiration check out Sven Dannart's website: http://www.svenart.de/

monks

Katto
01-31-2011, 12:46 PM
Thanks a lot for the link monks. Awesome stuff there.

Katto
02-05-2011, 04:12 PM
I feel like I could walk down that street. I think I can smell bread baking.

How did you know JT !?

ravells
02-05-2011, 06:17 PM
Bloody hell, katto! Stick some proper glass texture in that window and I'll jump into the picture to say hello!

fantastic!!!! I mean really fantastic!

ravells
02-05-2011, 06:44 PM
Sorry, Katto, couldn't resist.

If I can't live in a fantasy world, then I'll let my daughter to do.....Hmm must buy her some D&D clothes so the images would go better!

ravells
02-05-2011, 06:57 PM
Cool project Katto. Keep it up and enjoy it! ;)

If you want some inspiration check out Sven Dannart's website: http://www.svenart.de/

monks

monks, that is some of the best 3d work I've ever seen. Thanks for posting

Katto
02-06-2011, 05:13 PM
Lol, I think she wants a cookie. I know the baker, he's generous. Thanks, Ravs.

ravells
02-06-2011, 05:46 PM
lol...heh 'Daddy, I want a biscuit' and 'Daddy I need a biscuit' are two of her favourite sentences.

Katto
02-11-2011, 04:07 PM
I've decided to finish this project and moved the final pictures here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?13538-Tiwydwymacm). Thank you all for the support to motivate me for 1.5 months !!!

Katto
06-05-2011, 10:35 AM
I've started to work with City Engine and try to adapt my medieval houses to this program as a rule. It is quite amazing what you can build in a few hours if you know the commands and syntax of course.
This is what I have so far.

tilt
06-05-2011, 11:33 AM
wow.. missed this thread first time around - great work Katto ... don't know city engine, but still looking forward to seing what you do. Have never gotte around to learn 3D myself, I guess I'll wait till I can upload the skills to my brain ;)

ravells
06-05-2011, 01:01 PM
This is going to be wonderously cool! Go Katto!!!!

Katto
06-05-2011, 05:11 PM
Hey tilt, 3D isn't an enigma if you know what are vertices, edges and shapes and what you can do with them. I've had an understanding problem of the "split.index" command this evening, but this is solved. I wish the language would be more like programming. Anyway, here is the next update. I've added four "ornament styles" and the rule file for you ravells, just rename the extension to *.cga.

tilt
06-06-2011, 01:08 AM
no, I understand how 3D works, even took a class once - but what I got from that was basically that the amount of time I had to use to be good at it were to high ;) ... that was 3D Studio Max. Also learned that in the pro 3D world people didn't even do all of it them selves, some built models, some textured, some set lighting, some animated. Perhaps I'll get the time to learn more some day :)

ravells
06-06-2011, 04:01 AM
Thanks for the cga file, katto, having a play with it now.

Katto
06-11-2011, 03:21 AM
A minor update: Finished the roof level, next I'll have to split the roof itself and adjust a few things. Finally the ground level needs to be done and windows will be added.

I couldn't resist to export a few buildings and do a quick render with preliminary textures.

ravells
06-11-2011, 03:47 AM
Katto! That looks stunning! Be sure to post your results on the Procedural boards too!!!

Ascension
06-11-2011, 12:55 PM
Looks like a small training yard there...pretty cool.

Katto
06-11-2011, 05:26 PM
Thanks, the rendered picture shows just the backyard of a lot, because I have not designed any rules for streets yet. :)
I have a big problem now which I won't solve this evening. Nearly everything is driven by random numbers. Now I want to add exactly one door randomly to the front- and backside. In a programming language it would be no problem, but in a scripting language like CE it is. Perhaps I missed a command, so I'll add the rule file. Perhaps anycone can help?
Oh yes, if it is finished I'll post a pic to the Procedural forums, good idea Ravs!

ravells
06-11-2011, 05:54 PM
You're way ahead of me on the programming now, Katto. I've had to relearn programming from scratch with CE (the last time I did anything similar was when I was using BASIC aged circa 18, I'm now 46). I think you might be able to make some sort of ' variable flag' using the 'case' command (which is like an 'If' statement in BASIC), and getting one door randomly placed in a wall was on my list as well. You can specify walls that face the street and walls that do not face the street. It might be worth asking the question on the procedural forums. Matthias Bueller who is the guru there may be able to help by writing a code snippet for you.

I've been dragged away from CE by R/L (moving house and work) and by the last comp and I've forgotten a lot of what I learnt when playing with CE earlier, so I'll have to get back to it again.

Katto
06-12-2011, 06:37 AM
After a long night I've learnt that it is not possible to change attribute values. It is also not possible to define local attributes. This makes the language quite unflexible, because it is not possible to get min-max values etc.
I've found a solution, but I am not happy with it at all. The next update will follow soon.

Katto
06-13-2011, 01:04 PM
My first rule file is finished. Unfortunately there was bad weather in Little Housington.

anonymousfromyou
06-13-2011, 01:14 PM
Simply amazing

Katto
06-13-2011, 01:26 PM
Thank you, Sir!

Telarus
06-13-2011, 04:20 PM
Going to go back and read this from the beginning, this is quite cool.

ravells
06-13-2011, 04:21 PM
Looking real good katto!

Katto
06-19-2011, 04:54 PM
My final rule file and WIP post. I've added dormers and an overhang to the first floor, all randomly of course. Hope you enjoyed this thread!

ravells
06-19-2011, 06:18 PM
That is absolutely beautiful, katto. I never even got to putting dormers in. We have been moving house this week and then we are away on holiday next week, but when things have settled down I'd love to look at your cga code and maybe we can do something together with CE.

Ascension
06-19-2011, 06:21 PM
They look like clones but, dude, it still kicks much booty so my hat goes off to you.

ravells
06-19-2011, 06:23 PM
He's done the hard part....putting in random textures to get variable buildings gets easier after one has got this far.

Katto
06-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Thanks guys. It would be nice working together on a project, send a mail when you are ready and have a nice holiday ravs :)

Aval Penworth
06-26-2011, 08:21 AM
I too, am filled with admiration.

arsheesh
06-26-2011, 11:06 AM
Wonderful stuff Katto, I'm really impressed.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh