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Ukyuu
01-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Hi there,

Got finaly my first "rought draft" of the damn world I need to create.

It's well... hum, the outershape. I'm trying to guess what I am supposed to do with it !

I want to add names and all, but I'm still figuring it out.

Well, the first map didn't pleased my publisher, so he had me redo one. I've done the map then put it on the screen of a datapad.

The first version uses assests who aren't mines (obvious I can't do such a datapad) then the PNG is the best I could do with only my stupids drawing skills (I have obviously none) since my publisher wants it to the datapad no matter what... (I hate him, yes, it's said).

Any adivice? (The map is made by me, so is the injection of the map into the two different datapads).

It's my first map so I don't know if it's good enough as a map or not.

[09/01/2001 ; 20H56] Well, I had something that I'm hoping will be usefull : The interface the maps will be displayed on. It's called E-reader because it's the soft that allows people to read both my free and commercial books, it's still in its very early beta version.
Djenny Floro.

Aenigma
01-07-2011, 04:22 PM
Looks nice, but to be honest the name really puts me off. It sounds nice, but it's quite hard to read and generally that'something to be avoided (at least in larger quantities.)
If the name you chose is part of some fictional language for this planet you made, then it's more ok, I think.

Other than that, I can only say that I really wanna see a bigger-resolution version of this map! :D

Ukyuu
01-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Hello,

Yes, the map's name is part of the elvin language of the book I'm writing.
At the begining of the book, (third sentence) here is what the heroine says:

- To read elvin is simple, just read every voyel where there is a trema as if there hasn't, the trema is to indicate that you should accentuate your pronunciation in it.

Fact is my editor wanted an "acentued language" and he was bothering me saying it was sweeter to the eyes (who the hell will think that nowadays?) so I redid my whole encyclopedia (yes, there's one of this language took me a year and a half to do it) and put accents here and there.... Sorry for the inconvenience.

DF :)

Ukyuu
01-08-2011, 04:58 AM
Well, I've update the main post of the topic.

I've done my best so far but it's irritating that I'm totally limited by my poor skills, it's not very great, and there's nothing I can do to make things better at this point, I've worked all night for such a stupid result... I have used :

- Fractal Terrains Pro
- Paint
- Paint Shop Pro 9
- 1 random "Datapad" found in the web
- 1 self-made "Datapad" (paint)

And I'm out of any idead on how to make the thing I've done with paint any better.

DF.

Aenigma
01-08-2011, 05:52 PM
Hello,

Yes, the map's name is part of the elvin language of the book I'm writing.
At the begining of the book, (third sentence) here is what the heroine says:

- To read elvin is simple, just read every voyel where there is a trema as if there hasn't, the trema is to indicate that you should accentuate your pronunciation in it.

Fact is my editor wanted an "acentued language" and he was bothering me saying it was sweeter to the eyes (who the hell will think that nowadays?) so I redid my whole encyclopedia (yes, there's one of this language took me a year and a half to do it) and put accents here and there.... Sorry for the inconvenience.

DF :)

You've made your own language? Thats fantastic! I'm also doing that right now for the book I'm working at! (at a rather slow pace xD)

Greason Wolfe
01-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Don't get frustrated, Djenny. We all had to take little steps at first. There are a lot of folks here that are probably willing to help you out as much as they can. To make things easier, though, it might help if we had a better idea of what you are trying to get out of this map. I'd recommend going through the Finished Maps sub-forum and maybe the Regional/World Mapping sub-forum and see if there is anything in there that is close to what you're trying to achieve. The other good sub-forum to go through is the Tutorials sub-forum since many of the tutorials there are often directly related to a finished map somewhere in one of the other sub-forums.

I know it can be a bit discouraging when you first start out and aren't getting what you want out of the map you're trying to make. For us cartographers, patience is very much a virtue. If you're having trouble achieving a particular look or effect, don't hesitate to ask for help. And lastly, Redrobes, one of our upstanding members here, has put together a keyword index located here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/utilities/Indexes/CGuild_Keyword_Index.htm). You might try browsing through that list as well, looking, in particular, for the applications you are using.

Hang in there, and I promise things will get better.

GW

Ukyuu
01-09-2011, 07:53 AM
You've made your own language? Thats fantastic! I'm also doing that right now for the book I'm working at! (at a rather slow pace xD)

Creating a language is a three-step thing... it's much simpler than making a map (from my point of view) but it takes a very long time.

Step 1 :

First, you need to create a dictionnary, the best thing to do is to find a list of world in your own language, then patiently (you'll need a LOT of patience) write a word of your own for each and every word (even if it's a one-letter word).

Do to do that :
- Invent your own list of sufixes and prefixes, (it's the most important part !)
- Assemble the biggest dictionnary in your own native language possible,
- Invent your own tonality (a language must have a uniform sound and tonality,
- Invent your set of syllabs ( Take, for exemple, the same number of syllabs as in japaneese on their 2 basics alphabets, it's a good number)
- Assign to each syllab either a symbol (and you get a japanese / arabic type of alphabet) or a letter (accentued or not, you can even invent your own accents); the best is to create the two of them
- Create your dictionnary

This step can take up to a year, since there is actually no software developper who has thought of making a soft for that (I've tried to create it, the software is too complicated for my level) using MS Access can fasten the process.

2 : Create a language structure

2.1 Create a grammar

This is where you should copy an existing one, my advice : French or English are tbe best to copy. You can use Japaneese or arabic if you want symbol based language (throug you can apply english or french structure to symbols too). The best is to use the one you're most comfortable with.

2.2 Create a civilization

No language is born out of a civilisation, a language depends on the value of a civilisation. Some exemples :

- Asian language shows how much they value respect by having suffixes for the different familly members, friends, and a hierrarchie of respect (san, sama, chan, obasan, neesan etc...)
- Turquoise (RPG Invented language, don't remember the author through) is born in a military driven civilisation, there is suffixes and words for the differents populations, warrior / non-warriors aren't allowed to use the same type of words, thus leads to a two-level language...

2.3 : Rethink your dictionnary for a most efficent use with the 2.1 and 2.2, add the words your world needs. Don't forget to invent words for new / non-existent species and plants.

3 - Laws

One of the most importants parts of the language is to add laws to it. Think about the strong words, what's authorized to pronounce, some words can be forbident (like voldemort in Harry Potter) and have to be replaced.

You create some references textes (religions, rought outdraft of laws that rules your countries).

Create a set of 10 000 words who are specifics 5000 first names, 5000 familly-names.

END of making a language (basic way)

Once you've done that, the changes in the whole thing will be natural during the play (players will most likely shorten some words, mispell and such, write it all down with the number of occurence) and consider this as the natural language evolution. If you're writting a book, consider doing so on your own to make the language evolve... don't forget that the only languages who never evolves and stop having dialects are dead languages, so if your civilization is still alive, don't fix it into stone...

Hope it helps you a bit in your language-making and helps you fasten your language-making.


Don't get frustrated, Djenny. We all had to take little steps at first. There are a lot of folks here that are probably willing to help you out as much as they can. To make things easier, though, it might help if we had a better idea of what you are trying to get out of this map. I'd recommend going through the Finished Maps sub-forum and maybe the Regional/World Mapping sub-forum and see if there is anything in there that is close to what you're trying to achieve. The other good sub-forum to go through is the Tutorials sub-forum since many of the tutorials there are often directly related to a finished map somewhere in one of the other sub-forums.

I know it can be a bit discouraging when you first start out and aren't getting what you want out of the map you're trying to make. For us cartographers, patience is very much a virtue. If you're having trouble achieving a particular look or effect, don't hesitate to ask for help. And lastly, Redrobes, one of our upstanding members here, has put together a keyword index located here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/utilities/Indexes/CGuild_Keyword_Index.htm). You might try browsing through that list as well, looking, in particular, for the applications you are using.

Hang in there, and I promise things will get better.

GW


Thank you so much for your support. I'm curently doing so. Fact is that what I want to make is a map that appears in a datapad. The datapad is old (It's 30 years old so the technology should look somehow out-of-date for a faraway futurist world)....

I didn't found any artworks showing datapads, maybe I'm using the wrong keywords : Future, Datapad.

If you have any sugestions about how to research better, I'm all up for it !

DF.

Aenigma
01-09-2011, 04:09 PM
That's a really handy guide on how to make a language!

I began my language-creation by writing a sentence of words I made up, which I used as a base on roughly how the language should sound.
I then decided on how the language should function when it comes to this:
I am
you are
he/she/it is
we are...
etc

The two key things for me are 'functionality/practicality' and 'beauty'.
aka the language must work and be easy to use (meaning that not all words are overdramatic and five miles long) and it must be beautiful, like french is considered beautiful and, well, dutch isn't...

Ukyuu
01-09-2011, 05:10 PM
Too shorts words are problematic too.

And remember, there's always a fan lurking around that might try to learn it, so the more you structure it, the more you rule it, the best pleased will that one fan in his place, somewhere, in a dark grotto, be.

Greason Wolfe
01-09-2011, 06:16 PM
snip . . .

Thank you so much for your support. I'm curently doing so. Fact is that what I want to make is a map that appears in a datapad. The datapad is old (It's 30 years old so the technology should look somehow out-of-date for a faraway futurist world)....

I didn't found any artworks showing datapads, maybe I'm using the wrong keywords : Future, Datapad.

If you have any sugestions about how to research better, I'm all up for it !

DF.

Ahh, for that, then, you might want to try the Sci-fi/Modern sub-forum. Also, we had a challenge sometime back, and I think it was Ravells, though I can't be sure, that might have done (or started) with something like what you're describing. If he happens to peek in on this thread, perhaps he can provide a link to what he was doing. I'm not big on the sci-fi mapping, but I seem to remember a few in that sub-forum that, while not specifically what you're looking for, might give you a few ideas about how to move forward with what you have.

GW

Ukyuu
01-10-2011, 04:56 AM
A little nerve wraking, I can't seems to find anything... Am I searching wrong or maybe "datapad" isn't a good idea for mapping? Maybe I should rethink everything and start it from scratch ?

The idea just seems good, I'm maybe a little too confused about how I want it ?

DF.

Greason Wolfe
01-10-2011, 06:40 AM
Oh, that happens from time to time, even to the best of us.

Perhaps rather than doing a "search" it might be easier (albeit, more time consuming) to just browse the aforementioned sub-forums. I think, though, that I understand what it is you want to do, and in terms of direct suggestions, you might take a look at the various e-readers in existence today and try to build a graphical representation of what they might look like in the future. Or maybe even look at some of the latest hand-held game consoles or I-pad set-ups and try to imagine how they might change in the future. You could even make those changes to reflect a specific purpose, in this case, perhaps something specifically for calling up details of a planet/world, with specialized "bells and whistles" devoted to that purpose.

Wish I could offer more in the way of help, but I'm more of a fantasy writer/cartographer than I am a sci-fi type, even though I love reading good sci-fi.

GW

ravells
01-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Hi UKyuu. Re the drawing of your datapad, references are always useful, and there's a ton of them out there. See attached. It might also help if you were to 'design it' so you'd have a better idea what it might look like and is consistent with the 'tech level' of your universe. How big is it? What is it made of (metal? plastic?), Steampunk or far future (or something else?), what shape is it? Has it got lots of buttons and dials or is it very clean? If you like we could do something together on this thread? I'm happy to help.

best

Ravs

ravells
01-10-2011, 08:46 AM
Couldn't resist having a play....this is a kind of modern Kindle I guess...

::edit:: the space map was from the web - not mine!

Ukyuu
01-10-2011, 06:20 PM
Hello !

We're on the same lenght here; it's very near what I was thinking about, however, it should be a little less clean, it's military stuff, it's used to show a specific location on Fijw by zoom-in from the main-screen. There's also interference due to the location, so the screen wouldn't so "clean".

I haven't yet figured out the galaxy this planet would be in, but that should be something I'd work on. I'm going to map it however I can.... (trough, I don't know how to map a galaxy Oo) I was set in the planet itself since the datapad should be planet-specific. I'm going to work on this part too, and will come tommorow with more "refined" map that we can include in the datapad (It's curently 00:20 AM here so I need sleep).

DF

ravells
01-10-2011, 07:28 PM
Glad it was along the lines of your thinking. Made it more military looking.

Ukyuu
01-11-2011, 02:45 AM
Yup, I'm actually fitting the maps to it so we can have a look at it !

Here, I've roughly put the stuff where it should be... however, still totally unsatisfied with the map integration in the datapad...
Also, the manual buttons bugs me, something that works with touching it would give off a better vibe maybe ?

My Fractal Terrain file and the original resolution maps and e-reader-2 file were too big so you can get them from here :

Archive-host shared directory for e-reader map ! (http://outils-n.archive-host.com/partage-1k38l4ruDjv8x13f9wfU5cI1A) (simply clic on the shown files to download them)

For the datapad with the maps, it requires a 400% zoom-in to see (roughly) the black triangle that shows enemies.... I'm thinking of a way to show them better... Maybe should I do :

- A datapad showing the world map (First curent map)
- A datapad showing a zoom-in on the region of the world where they are (Second curent map)
- A datapad showing a greater zoom-in on the recommended path;

Because presently, I don't know how to make a dapad that would show it all without being too overloarded. What do you think of it ?

I put the FT files into a .rar; there is no password to open it, if you are in need of a software to open .rar files, get 7zip from : Here (http://www.7-zip.org/) This is a free software for archives.

BTW Ravels, how did you managed to make such realistic metal ? The software and techniques would really interrest me, since I never managed to make something that actually really looks like metal... Same for the texture of the datapad, if it's not too much trouble, would you agree explaining it to me someday ?

To answer all of your questions above (your first post)

- I tried to design it but was absolutely no goods with drawings (my hand-drawing is about three-years old level of drawing, you'd be unable to recognize a cat !)
- The fifth image is close to what they have as technology on the world of my story, but a slightly-under technology is needed here, as it is the non-expansive version (for soldiers since they will most probably break such frail technologies in mission) so they're made of materials like the ones you've done in the present datapad you drew.

From your design, the screen should be a little wider, as there should be only the retinea-scan (I love the 72 idea, I'll give this number to the team using it) The small screen with green inscription is great too. The screen would be light-green visual like in your third picture research. The progress-bar idea is cool, it shows the degree of danger at their curent location, I was thinking about a second one for air-rarefication (they're on a mountain) that would be to the red-limit too... don't know if the idea is feasible all in all... as for the pocket-size of the datapad, it's all good !

That's why I said you're a genius, you've pretty much guessed it all without me even having to describe it !

DF.

Ukyuu
01-12-2011, 02:51 AM
Sometimes, I wonder if my answers aren't just too long ?

DF.

ravells
01-12-2011, 08:06 AM
Not too long, it's good to have more information than less. How about something like this. (The FTW files you enclosed were different to the ones you have posted here). We can use the small screen as a planet overview screen and have the 'zoomed in' version on the main screen. I don't think you need 3 screens - unless for story purposes - since (presumably) the tech is such that the user can zoom the main screen in and out like an ipad. Too much 'obvious' information like, 'These icons are enemy units', or 'this is the path you need to follow' is not good since it becomes too obvious as an info dump to the reader. Hopefully the symbols should speak for themselves, or the explanations can be given elsewhere.

I made this in Serif Drawplus. You don't need hand-drawing skills at all. The technical readouts were photoshop brushes I found on the web and should be credited in the drawing when published. I think me getting what was in your head was more luck than genius!

If you like the design, please consider making a voluntary donation to the guild (see the donate button at the top). Whether you want to and the amount are entirely up to you.

best

Ravs

Ukyuu
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Hi there,

I like it a lot, I'm thinking about it in a little more finished style...
Hum, the FTW of Fijw 2 is the approved map that will be used (I had to get the approval of my publisher and he only wanted the one called fujiwe2.ftw). It takes place on the mountain (iced place) in the center where there is a mountain and a pass, and the extraction point is toward the south east, where there is a point of connection toward the main land.

For the donation, I has considered it already, I was mainly waiting due to some personal finacial issue (had to buy so much mapping software before finding the right ones to my needs...) I've made one a lot less bigger than I wanted but still, you're right it's best now since I like the design so much.

Can you tell me the credential I'll have to add please ?

DF.

ravells
01-12-2011, 03:02 PM
Ah sorry, I didn't realise I had Fijuwe 2. I've changed the maps. It just occured to me, do you need any of the text in French? If you tell me what to put, I'd be happy to change it.

Just credit the map to me: Ravi Shankar, and please make sure that Zanimation studio are credited too, thanks!

Thanks for the donation to the guild!

Best

Ravi.

Ukyuu
01-12-2011, 03:49 PM
I"ll add the maps with the credits as you've made them on the file; when the story will be online, I'll send you a PM with codes to access it, so you'll see how it goes inside the website. The official site launching should be around end of March, but it might bree ready before in pre-version. I have much to do on the website (I'm doing it in ASP.Net) there's quite a bit more to do, and I've got to finish to write quite a lot more of stories in the same time too...

So if work don't kill me first, we should see this embeded in the book in ten to twenty days, and in the webside by the end of march...

I have to work on two other maps too for already done works, but I don't quite see how to make the maps from already depicted worlds... I'll do WIP threads as soon as this one is finished... I have the feeling there's something we can do better on this one but really can't seems to put words into it...

DF.

ravells
01-12-2011, 04:21 PM
Cool! Look forward to reading it!

Ukyuu
01-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Yesterday my publisher told me that he wanted me to create my own website myself and to put all of my books on an e-reader, so I took my husband's Visual Studio and I'm doing my own webside, it's pretty hard (since I need to learn VB and ASP.NET on the go) but it will be there : www.djenny-floro.com you'll also see that it's on its very, very early stage (oh god, I've got so much to go T-T) but the background is already set. Would you mind matching the white background to my website's background ? It will be a lot easier to integrate on the e-reader I'm going to create on the website please ?

And would you agree being listed on the List of people I've worked along for the graphics ? There's a full-fledged section where I add the people I've worked / cooperated with for graphics. I'd be very honored if you agreed that I put a text here about the datapad ?

DF.

ravells
01-12-2011, 06:03 PM
No worries. Here it is with the website background (do you want the blue squares?).

Sure, no problem on being listed in the graphics section.

best

Ravi

Ukyuu
01-12-2011, 06:09 PM
Thanks for this, (well, if you could remove them would be good, cause I don't have blue in my website ^^')...

I'm honoured you accepted to be on the graphic section thanks so much !

DF.

ravells
01-12-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm honoured too :)

I've added one without the lines. Best of luck with your project!

Ukyuu
01-13-2011, 06:59 PM
I'm really fond of this map. I think I'll use it for more than one story... there's something about this world that just gives me inspiration !

DF.