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View Full Version : Carian - Round... Who knows... [WIP]



Yandor
03-17-2011, 04:58 AM
Well I decided to take another stab at the continent of Cairan from my world I've been attempting to build forever... Anyways I've find a style that seems to fit more of what I wanted (more "dynamic" in effecting how things turn out). So the idea of what I want to do here is to have a Large over world map (not shown in this post or thread as of yet) have a continent based map, shown below (horrible image quality btw) and then do regional areas, and maybe if I get down to it, city/village areas... So tell me what you think! Ideas, comments etc let me know...
Also the mountains are pretty "permanent" meaning I think I like where they are etc, but as for the rivers, desert area and forests they can all be moved, manipulated etc...


Hmm seems the thumbnail didn't like the attachments... Sorry!

Diamond
03-17-2011, 08:33 PM
Honestly, I like just about everything about that. Except where the rivers flow across the plains(?). The transition from the bevel effect in the forests (which looks really good BTW) to none at all in the plains looks jarring. Maybe add a light bevel to those areas too?

Slylok
03-18-2011, 02:16 PM
Looking good :) I think the rivers could be more narrow/thin where they begin though

Yandor
03-18-2011, 04:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback Diamond and Slylok

I tried to transition the forests a bit better, and I did a little tapering on the rivers in the mountains/start places

Diamond you said this "Except where the rivers flow across the plains(?)" I thought rivers flowed in the least path of resistance and since its a plan they zig zag a lot more... maybe I don't quite understand...

Regardless heres an update, the Continent size I donno if I like the icons or not yet, still playing with it, but I got a scale in there now (tell me if it works or not) The Continent should be around 1000 miles miles and the done area around 230 miles across. So let me know what you think, and do tell if I messed on on something!

*Seems the thumbnail only liked me partly this time

Diamond
03-18-2011, 08:55 PM
No, I meant that the lack of bevel effect on the rivers where they flow across the plains, compared to the nice-looking bevel where they go through the forests, looks odd. The path of the rivers looks fine.

Jaxilon
03-18-2011, 09:12 PM
I see what he's saying, they look carved into the earth real good until they hit the plains whereupon they seem flat, like the bevel did not take. I had this problem once in one of my maps. It was because there wasn't as much in the area for the bevel script to effect so it came out flat. Might require some noise or manual alterations. At least that's what I ended up doing.

This does look really killer though. I like it.

jfrazierjr
03-18-2011, 09:21 PM
No, I meant that the lack of bevel effect on the rivers where they flow across the plains, compared to the nice-looking bevel where they go through the forests, looks odd. The path of the rivers looks fine.

Those are called cliffs... :) Heh... it does seem odd that forests are the only place with river gorges....

Yandor
03-19-2011, 01:30 AM
OHH!!! bahaha I gotcha, its because the river is flat, and the forest has a bevel on it, and when I cut the rivers out of the forest, it creates that illusion, it all makes sense now! I'll tinker with that, that is much easier to fix =D

Update - Added a fix for the rivers... Does that help remove the issue??

Diamond
03-19-2011, 04:38 PM
Yes, much better! Looks awesome, dude.

LonewandererD
03-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Hey looking good, my only critique is that the settlement textures (I'm assuming that is what they are) seem a bit out of place, I think it's blur around the edges thats throwing it off for me. Like the farmlands though, very well done.

-D-

Yandor
03-23-2011, 12:14 PM
Hey looking good, my only critique is that the settlement textures (I'm assuming that is what they are) seem a bit out of place, I think it's blur around the edges thats throwing it off for me. Like the farmlands though, very well done.

-D-

Yeah, I've been attempting to think of a better way to display it, thats why there hasn't been any updates =P... I've been plowing through my inspiration folder trying to find a way to display cities a bit better, and the only ones I've seen that I want to "copy" (just the basic idea not a full replication) have been a few maps from Ascension and you haha I'll come across something that will work..

but I did come up with a pretty dashing text though bahah gotta love tutorials!

Larb
03-23-2011, 06:57 PM
It's looking really good! Regarding the narrow vs. wide rivers, I've found I prefer them a little wide otherwise they sort of get lost in the rest of the map.
I too am in the middle of redrawing a continent map for a world I've been working on for a long time so I understand the agonies it causes!

Ascension
03-23-2011, 07:09 PM
As to the lil towns/cities - I'd get some color variation in there so that they aren't all one solid color. Whether you use some color or a pattern doesn't matter too much, just something to break it up a tad - and I mean just a tad, nothing too extravagant so lower the opacity if you need to, keep it subtle. As to the title thingy, the letters are moved up and down too far, in my opinion. I'd make the C the biggest since it's a capital letter and make the I smaller, and bring everything more inline than where it is now so that it's easier to read. I really like the concept, though...just hard to read.

Yandor
03-25-2011, 03:47 AM
Thanks Larb and Ascension, I made a fix for the cities, and I'll play around with the rivers, we'll see how that goes, I also fixed up the text (thanks ascension I was feeling the same thing but I was following the tutorial (http://psd.tutsplus.com/tutorials/text-effects-tutorials/how-to-create-a-richly-ornate-typographic-illustration/) so yeah...) and then I made another one for my world map, following yet another tutorial (http://www.gomediazine.com/tutorials/create-dream-design-3d-typography/) bahah great fun let me tell ya

Ascension
03-25-2011, 04:43 PM
Much better, the letters are much easier to read being closer to inline. Pretty cool, man - cities look a lot better (to me, at least).

LonewandererD
03-26-2011, 12:06 PM
The city texture looks much better now, seems much more substantial. Bravo!

-D-

Diamond
03-26-2011, 03:52 PM
This is looking great, man. Really great. I'm gonna have to try out that typographic tut also.

lostatsea
03-27-2011, 10:44 AM
Looking good very nice progression. You have a nice selection of texture and color variations on the land . Looks great. Might need to carry it over to the water elements as they seem a bit bland in contrast. Have some rep.

Yandor
03-27-2011, 01:09 PM
Thanks for all the comments everyone, and school is killin me, I want to work on this, but I never find time to actually do so, ugh... But regardless Lostatsea, I plan on doing something with the ocean, but when I do, it usually makes the image rather large, making it harder to manage, so I'm procrastinating it like I do all my school work bahaha

Yandor
03-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Update of the zoomed in, do these fit as hills??

And I added another text piece here =D

edit- so besides the color difference in the hills, do they stand too tall for them to be just "hills?"

Ascension
03-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Looks fine to me.

Yandor
03-28-2011, 01:36 AM
Another update, fixed the hills to blend a bit better, added some roads, and a bit of marshland I just need to add in some more villages, and do something to the water, and I think this one will be nearing done...

Yandor
04-06-2011, 04:14 PM
Alright another update!

So for the most part the Region map of Cael is "done" (maybe some minor fixes), completed the Ocean, fixed Hills and what not...

I adjusted the Desert in the Continent view, loaded in new icons for cities, and updated the Legend, but just need to add in a political map of it.

My newer project with this, is a city side map... This will be my first attempt after my blunder of Belirus 3-4 years ago =D Anyways it's slow going, if anyone has any ideas, pointers, fixes anything I'd love to hear it!

arsheesh
04-06-2011, 04:40 PM
Nice job so far Yander, I'm really digging the great text images that you are adding! The map itself is lovely. The only thing I found a bit off was the line running between the two cities/towns/towers between the two sets of mountains on the far left-hand side of the map. Is this meant to be a road, or a wall, or something else entirely? If it's a road, it looks different from the other roads on your map.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Ryan K
04-06-2011, 06:26 PM
Looks like a wall to me.

Yandor
04-06-2011, 06:47 PM
bahaha I forgot I even put that in, it was just a test to see if it would fit or look nice, its off in the corner and I spaced it hahaha, oh well, but yes it is suppose to be a wall

Yandor
04-09-2011, 03:33 AM
So I've been playing around with housing ideas... cause the block houses I was using before, just don't seem to "cut it" for what I'm trying to pull off I guess... So I was wondering if this idea (the actual finished part on the bottom of the city section) actually works for a slum-ish/group housing... Any ideas, or suggestions, or even possible ways to make this pop and work a bit better let me know!

RobA
04-10-2011, 12:59 PM
The only issue I have is that all the little side streets and building walls all run N/S E/W which is less likely than main streets.

-Rob A>

Yandor
04-14-2011, 02:51 AM
hmm yeah I see whatcha mean...

so I tried something a bit different, just like before I have 2 layers a base pattern, and then one I drew over it to create the "houses", using that same idea instead of drawing I used a pattern template of houses, which is the lower set of houses, I also duplicated the layer and flipped it to give it more depth and randomness like a slum would mostly be, but the upper set of houses I used a different base pattern, and the same top pattern, no duplicate layer. Do these work? Is one style better then the other? or should i scrap this idea and try something else??

edit: So I did this other idea earlier, it was odd, but I'll post it up too, let me know!

Murcu
04-14-2011, 10:21 AM
I really like this man! But I have to say, the solid blue of the ocean looks kinda weird compared to how much texture is in everything else. But man! It really looks great!

EDIT: Didn't realize there was a second page. Saw the update. SO AWESOME

Yandor
07-29-2011, 06:30 AM
Alright! So I've made some more progress on this beast of a project, each area map is roughly 6-12 hours ( not including the time it took to get the mountains and other things that are included on the continent view) Anyways on the newer maps, I still need to do the oceans, and on the Cael map I still need to adjust the forest and cities a bit on that far left side. Also another thing that some may notice, there is overlapping on the images, and on the regional ones I didn't include the areas next to them, that will be done later when I have all areas done. Also the continent icons for the cities, need some color work...

Anyways comments, ideas, questions, advice is all welcome!

Len Wolff
07-29-2011, 07:11 AM
Amazing work. I love the cities and the textures.

Do you know if there is a good tutorial to draw the mountains in this style?

ravells
07-29-2011, 07:14 AM
It looks like Pasis mountain tutorial may be what you want. Have a look for it in the tutorial section. I think it's called 'Raising up mountains in photoshop' by Pasis.

@Yandor: lovely work! I don't know how I've missed this thread for so long.

Yandor
07-29-2011, 02:14 PM
haha well... The mountains are done through Wilbur, I created a height map in Photoshop and used the erosion of Wilbur to create the mountains. If I had done it with Pasis's Tutorial I would of gone nuts doing so =D, I'm no where near as patient as some people who can do that style! Always been a quick "render" kind of a person, if I can't find short cuts then I'll let it sit until I do! haha

Anyways thanks for the replys already, and Ravells it was simple to miss due to the fact that when I started this, about 15 people were posting in the regional section, so it got pushed into page 2 real fast!

arsheesh
07-29-2011, 02:26 PM
Looking great so far Yandor! I especially like the shape of the Torovia map, and the titles of each map.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

ravells
07-29-2011, 06:06 PM
haha well... The mountains are done through Wilbur, I created a height map in Photoshop and used the erosion of Wilbur to create the mountains. If I had done it with Pasis's Tutorial I would of gone nuts doing so =D, I'm no where near as patient as some people who can do that style! Always been a quick "render" kind of a person, if I can't find short cuts then I'll let it sit until I do! haha

Anyways thanks for the replys already, and Ravells it was simple to miss due to the fact that when I started this, about 15 people were posting in the regional section, so it got pushed into page 2 real fast!

I'm just thinking, I don't think It has ever occurred to me to make a map in FT Pro, export it just as a relief shaded white landmass against a black sea and then do all the colouring in photoshop. I think I might try that as my next project! I've never seen your workflow before either (PS heightmap (presumably using clouds) and then erode in Wilbur - the results are fantastic. How much control do you get over where the mountains are?

I'm gonna try that using Bryce instead of Wilbur and see what the results look like.

Thanks for the ideas for a new direction to explore!

Yandor
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
Ravells - placement is key, and very very precise.

Method in a Nutshell
1. PS to create continent use clouds and difference clouds with a threshold layer to get 2 solid colors. Then using a light and darker layer (with the threshold layer) I get myself a continent I want.
2. Using black for the ocean, and a near black (sea level of wilbur #060606) for the land. I then make a layer on top, get a grunge/cloud brush (i've posted similar ones before) and place where I want the mountains in connection with the land (using 20% opacity I build up the height map)
3. Once I get the mountain shape I run it through wilbur with several uses of the 2 erosions, precipitation and Incrise Flow (had to cut up the mountain sections to run through wilbur)


Precipition
.25
-1
8ways
none
5
blend 90%
none

Incrise Flow
1
.4
1
1
0
0

(twice)
Precipition
.25
-1
8ways
none
5
blend 90%
none

(For Rivers)
Incrise Flow
1
.2
1
.5
0
0

Precipition
.25
-1
8ways
none
1
blend 50%
none

4. Once saved as a png TEXTURE map, not a surface map, I bring it back into PS and run it through Lighting & effects to get the mountains to pop.

5. Once I get that I put it all back together and start doing rivers, forests, cities, roads etc.

6. Oceans in my tutorial (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?13256-High-Contrast-Ocean-Harrum) I posted not to long ago

And thats it really in a nutshell... Wilbur, Forests, Cites/roads and Rivers are the longest parts of the whole process... Getting the actual continent map, and height map is easy. Along with texturing and doing the mountains from the rendered height maps from wilbur are simple too... But yeah... I should make a tutorial one of these days...

oops forgot some pictures, and look at the placement of the mountains in the heighmap to the post of the continent map I did earlier, if you can see they are spot on to the brushed heightmap I did in PS

ravells
07-30-2011, 08:09 AM
Thanks a million for this Yandor, I'm having a little play right now. I don't know why I never thought of this earlier (I'm sure you already have), but when I'm drawing my heightmap, I've put in an adjustment layer just above the one I'm working on. the adjustment layer is a gradient layer with hypso tints where the stops are 1% apart. It makes it much easier to see what you're doing.

Yandor
07-30-2011, 02:05 PM
Yeah I've thought of that, but every time I've tried it never really worked so well... So all I do is make a selection of the land (so I never go into the ocean when I draw my mountains) and just keep track of how often I click and overlap certain areas.. For example I believe the image I showed above of the before and after wilbur, I had my brush at 40% opacity and did a base layer (single clicks) and then I overlapped twice (first time to get the medium height, last time to get the peaks)... Maybe not the best method, but it got the job done haha

Oh yeah, the process through wilbur I also did for this months Challenge map... so I mean you can do broad mountains for a continent or closer ones for regional or even city maps depending on how "high" you make the height maps

ravells
07-30-2011, 03:53 PM
What I love is the the shape of mountain you get at the end, they're really crunchy and look exactly like shaded relief should.

Yandor
07-30-2011, 04:45 PM
yup, so were you able to "replicate" the process or something close? Cause I'm sure your much better with Wilbur then I am, so if you've got any tricks up your sleeve let me know!

ravells
07-30-2011, 06:57 PM
lol, no..I barely use Wilbur, I use FT much more. My first effort this afternoon was a disaster. Still working on it.

Yandor
07-30-2011, 07:07 PM
Ahh! ok, I thought you had both of them down pretty good, guess not haha

Lathorien
08-02-2011, 03:40 PM
I have been using this style (Wilbured height relief, then I go into gimp for light effects and texturing) for a couple years now (right down to the embossed clusters of blocks for cities) and you've accomplishing much better results. You have convinced me to switch over to PS as overall look you get (especially the rivers) in PS are far superior results to what i have been able to achieve in GIMP.

For the farm land I can get nice results that blend into the surrounding base colour by changing the Farm texture layer to multiply, i imagine PS has something similar maybe with a different name. It allows the darkest parts (lines) to come through with the rest of the texture taking the colour of the surrounding topography.

For forests i use a tiny brush with max jitter/scatter and a very light green and paint in forested areas, then emboss the spray. Sometimes with an under/drop shadow if the scale is right.

Here is my deviant page (my maps became to big to post here long ago):
http://lathorien.deviantart.com/gallery/

Hopefully there is something there to tickle your fancy and hopefully inspire you when your stuck at something since the styles are so similar.

Now to restart the learning curve with PS....

PS - Ravells - Both the "Discworld Map", the incomplete "Lexicon Map" and the newest "Pangea Map" are all FT generate world maps taken into Wilbur, while the "Primeval Map" was hand drawn and then Wilbured (the basic steps each have a seperate picture for you to see the process). With a FT generated map, the erosion process had to be different than the hand drawn map. For FT I use precipitation based erosion (default settings), incise flow with a preblur of 2, then again with a preblur of 1, precip again (default settings), then one more incise flow with a preblur of 1, and then a final precip again with default settings. The hand drawn heightmap didnt have the incise flow with the preblur 2, just two steps of preblur 1.

Yandor
08-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Lathorien - I can see what you mean by similar styles, and its not just Photoshop that makes the difference. I've seen plenty of (this quality or better) gimp maps done here. It really is based on how well you know your program and how to manipulate textures and what not. All that is on these maps after I've done the mountains (through wilbur) is all done with textures, and the bevel & emboss layer effects ( with the added contour and texture to add flavor to things like the forest). The roads and the water are all a 2px soft brush with a flat color and a drop shadow... The Fields are a texture, the cities are like the forests just a different brush... Its the ocean in the Cael map that relies heavily on filters and other things to make it... So yeah I mean there isn't much to it, just a lot of basic things I've got from many of the tutorials here and the things I've learned on my own from experimenting...



Anyways, I've been toying with some ideas on how I want this place to look, I'm thinking of changing the desert to a "Bad Lands" or a broken lands kind of thing... But I'm just experimenting with textures and other things so tell me what you think this even looks like... The idea is a bad lands with corrupted/diseased/dead trees... does this even look anything like that??

jfrazierjr
08-02-2011, 06:53 PM
Looks like rocky scrub plains to me.... if that's what your going for.. then yea.. good job..

Lathorien
08-03-2011, 12:15 AM
how exactly did you do those cities in the overland maps? trying to replicate the look and failing miserably...

Yandor
08-03-2011, 04:37 AM
You need to find the right touch really, I use a pattern created by Aidybaby Here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?1019-City-of-Gullside&p=8276&viewfull=1#post8276). And I believe I shrunk it. In these maps I used the pattern, I've got a top layer, and a bottom layer. One that has that goldish color, with a touch of drop shadow + a dark outer glow and a inner stroke of 1 pixel (75% gray) and then the under one has the same drop shadow + outer glow as the top layer. I've done other maps as well with a splatter brush from photoshop and did simple clicks (once or twice over each other) to build up an area. Take a look at Ascensions Jasmine Coast (go a few pages in and you can get his styles too) to get the basic idea of that one... He also has another map, I believe it was an experimental one that had done here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?9727-Forcing-myself-to-do-something). Its amazing on how much I model after him, or atleast get the idea from and just adapt it a ton... haha well anyways thats how I did it.

Yandor
08-04-2011, 02:54 PM
Looks like rocky scrub plains to me.... if that's what your going for.. then yea.. good job..

Jfrazierjr - Thanks for the input, the idea I had evolved a bit more, I wanted the rocky scrub idea but not so much plains as it was broken/shattered/jagged rocks so I added a texture to it. So thanks!

So a few updated things. First and foremost is the Ocean, I got that in place, along with some Text, then the updated shattered lands area instead of the desert. So I ask you guys do these elements work? (Text-color,type Shattered lands-color, texture intensity etc ) Any other suggestions or ideas are welcome but let me know!

Joe Smith
06-02-2012, 09:00 PM
I just joined the guild and i am so excited! Everyone is so talented i dont even know where to start! Im going through the tutorials for the beginners right now! This looks great! Good job!

arsheesh
06-02-2012, 11:25 PM
Welcome Joe! Also, any updates on these Yandor?

Cheers,
-Arsheesh