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eleran
01-27-2008, 12:37 PM
I am brand new to CC3 and mapping in general. I would like to learn to use CC3 to make maps and other things for my RPGs. I just bought the program yesterday, so I am VERY new. All advice is appreciated. Hopefully, one day I can get to the point where I can be giving advice to newcomers as well.

ravells
01-27-2008, 01:48 PM
Hi eleran, and welcome to the Guild!

I don't use CC3 myself, but all the users of it give the same advice: Follow the tutorials before you do anything else!

Feel free to post up the results here!

ravs

pyrandon
01-27-2008, 03:55 PM
Welcome, eleran! We have some amazing CC users here, so be sure to post those questions and attempts--you're sure to get great advice!

Once again, welcome!

NeonKnight
01-27-2008, 06:50 PM
Welcome.

I am a seasoned pro (in my mind at least ;)), at the whole CC3 thing.

If you bought the software, and I am assuming you got it via download, you will find in the:

profantasy>CC3>documentation folder a PDF called CC3 essentials. This is a 40 page PDF that will step you through the process of making both a simple overland map, and a simpe dungeon map.

If you have any questions, please post here.

eleran
01-28-2008, 01:53 PM
Thanx for the friendly greetings. I started the tutorial in the essentials pdf last night, but got so frustrated switching back and forth I decided to wait til tonight after I printed it out here at work.

eleran
01-28-2008, 02:03 PM
I do have a couple of questions to start.

I have a hand drawn map I want to digitize using CC3. Can I scan it in and use it for tracing purposes, or I do I just need to recreate it as faithfully as possible freehand?

After I got frustrated with the tutorial, I decided to play around on my own a little just to put what I had seen so far into practice. I made a landmass bordering a sea area. I tried to run a river from inland down to the coast and link it to the coast, but when I would get to the sea area, my river would jump itself up to the top map edge every single time. What am I missing? When I did this using the tutorial maps it worked just fine, but my own map it didnt work well at all.

I dont like the width of the default river. Can I change the width it is drawn at?

Thats it for now. Thanx in advance for any assistance.

Gamerprinter
01-28-2008, 03:06 PM
You can scan your hand-drawn map, import to CC3 as a PNG file in order to trace it. Somebody else ought to give you the steps, but I believe a tutorial may exist here that describes that...8)

Plus as a workaround, I create my larger rivers at the same time as I create a Coastline, so the river in a sense becomes part of the coastline, in that I'm drawing the river using the coastline tool. Of course you have to be careful not to cross the bank, when drawing the other side of the river. For larger rivers this technique works well enough.

I believe the line width for the river tool is set to a standard - don't know if you can change the line width...

NeonKnight
01-28-2008, 05:58 PM
Here is what I do.

First, if you have a pre drawn map, you should know what the dimensions of your map is (The whole paper, ocean everything). Once you know that, start a new map using the NEW MAP wizard. Select a size as close to yours (or even a little bigger or smaller if you have a lot of ocean around the map).

Once you have the map made, create a SHEET and a LAYER for your map image. I call mine BMP as I usually insert BMP images. It doesn't matter what you call them, as long as you know what they are. Make sure the SHEET you select is as close to the top of the Sheet List as possible (This puts it on the bottom).

Ensure you have both the Layer and SHeet selected, and the select the following:

DRAW > INSERT FILE

You will get a choice to select an insertable type file into your drawing. Navigate to your image (BMP or PNG), select Open, and you will get a copy of you image to place on your map.

You will likely see a command box coming up saying the image is too larger to place in the or something to that effect, and you can select to eitherstore the image's path relative to the drawing, or USe the absolute path. This means, when you open the CC3 file, the program just needs to know where to look for the file.

Select one, and click OK

It will now ask for the 1st corner. For now, ALWAYS select 0,0 (this is 0 miles East/West and 0 miles North/South), press enter. You will now see your file there and as you move the mouse around it grows and shrinks and everything else based on the mouse's movement which will represent the second corner. Because you know the dimension of you map (remember I asked you to do that above), you can type that absolute information into the command bar (width x height).

BINGO

You have now imbedded your 'paper version likely' in to the map. You can select things coast, rivers, vegetation etc, and place them all on the CC3 file where your old map says to place them.


AND TONIGHT, I will wright this up as a nice tutorial and put it in the tutorial forum with images.

eleran
01-28-2008, 06:06 PM
Let me be the latest to say (because I doubt I am the first) U DA MAN!!!

Thanx very much for your help.

eleran
01-28-2008, 08:41 PM
I started the tutorial again from scratch and have already run into a problem. I am in the section where I am adding mountain symbols. I selected the 1st mountain in the catalog as they told me, I right clicked and changed the scale to 0.01 which they said would make the mountains the appropriate scale for the for the selected map template. However, after doing that, the mountain is a REALLY tiny dot almost imperceptibly small. Did I do something wrong, or is the tutorial not quite right, or is it supposed to be this small?

2nd question; How do I know the proper size? Is that something you just eyeball? I am using the 100x80 size map the tutorial suggests.

Nevermind #2, I just noticed the sidebar about scaling symbols. It says most symbols should be roughly the width divided by 1000. Which leads me to believe the original scale the tutorial suggests is incorrect. The map is 80x100 so the scale should be 0.1 instead of 0.01.

NeonKnight
01-29-2008, 03:43 AM
OK, I made tutoruial up to step a person through putting a BMP/PNG image into CC3. It can be found in the Tutorial Section:

http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=12813#post12813

ravells
01-29-2008, 05:42 AM
Look on the bright side, eleran, you are probably the first person who has made a molehill out of a mountain!

Don't worry too much about what manuals tell you about relative sizes, sizing by eye (which you can do in CC2 and I'm sure in CC3) is probably better.

Midgardsormr
01-29-2008, 06:37 PM
I tried to run a river from inland down to the coast and link it to the coast, but when I would get to the sea area, my river would jump itself up to the top map edge every single time. What am I missing? When I did this using the tutorial maps it worked just fine, but my own map it didnt work well at all.

I dont like the width of the default river. Can I change the width it is drawn at?


Your other questions were answered, but these weren't. The first issue--the end of your river jumping to the map border--is probably due to a snapping option. I don't recall off the top of my head where the snapping tool is, but if you poke around in the menus, you should be able to find a place to turn it off. Seems like it was close to or inside the grid settings.

The second problem was the line width of the river. That's quite easy to change. In the right-hand column on the left edge of the workspace there is a button called "change properties." If you right-click that button it will call up a context menu in which you can choose "line width."

Click that, choose the river, then enter a new value. The default value is probably 0.0, which will make the river a hairline no matter what zoom level you're at. Just choose a value that is equal to the width you want the river to be in real world units. Notice, though, that giving the river a width will give it a fill style, as if it were a polygon. I think the default is a solid fill with the same color as the original line, but I'm not sure.

eleran
01-29-2008, 06:53 PM
Thanx Bryan. I will try that when I resume the tutorial after dinner tonight.

So, just to clarify, if I have a river on my map that I envision as a quarter mile across I want to set the width of the line at 0.25?

NeonKnight
01-29-2008, 06:53 PM
Your other questions were answered, but these weren't. The first issue--the end of your river jumping to the map border--is probably due to a snapping option. I don't recall off the top of my head where the snapping tool is, but if you poke around in the menus, you should be able to find a place to turn it off. Seems like it was close to or inside the grid settings.

The second problem was the line width of the river. That's quite easy to change. In the right-hand column on the left edge of the workspace there is a button called "change properties." If you right-click that button it will call up a context menu in which you can choose "line width."

Click that, choose the river, then enter a new value. The default value is probably 0.0, which will make the river a hairline no matter what zoom level you're at. Just choose a value that is equal to the width you want the river to be in real world units. Notice, though, that giving the river a width will give it a fill style, as if it were a polygon. I think the default is a solid fill with the same color as the original line, but I'm not sure.

As well as a snap issue, it sounds like an ATTACH issue. The Atttach button is located at the bottom right of the screen. The button are in order:

GRID
ORTHO
SNAP
ATTACH
LOCKED

If the Attached button is depressed, simply click on it and this will turn the attach feature off.

Midgardsormr
01-29-2008, 09:57 PM
Thanx Bryan. I will try that when I resume the tutorial after dinner tonight.

So, just to clarify, if I have a river on my map that I envision as a quarter mile across I want to set the width of the line at 0.25?

That's correct. Note also that since the river will become a polygon, you will also be able to edit the nodes in order to make it wider or narrower in places.

Disclaimer: I'm not terribly experienced with CC3, having just started with it recently, but I remember the problems I had starting out. If ever jaerdaph or NeonKnight contradicts me, they're almost certainly correct.

Which is to say: Yeah, Attach is probably what you want to toggle.

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 01:17 AM
That's correct. Note also that since the river will become a polygon, you will also be able to edit the nodes in order to make it wider or narrower in places.

Disclaimer: I'm not terribly experienced with CC3, having just started with it recently, but I remember the problems I had starting out. If ever jaerdaph or NeonKnight contradicts me, they're almost certainly correct.

Which is to say: Yeah, Attach is probably what you want to toggle.

Close, if you make the line wider, narrower, it is still a line. I am sure there is a correlation to the WIDTH of the line in relation to the scale, but not exactly sure. I'd have to research it tonight.

eleran
01-30-2008, 05:34 PM
I finished the tutorial overland map. It is pretty rough, but it is done. Now I want to start piecing my campaign starter map together. Would it be better to start a new WIP thread somewhere? If so, where is appropriate?

Take a look at my tutorial map and let the comments fly.

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 07:40 PM
It is a nice map, and from what I can see, you have taken then tutorial lessons quite well. Not sure about the rivers though. Were they done witha a solid line or a different fill style? They looked dashed.

eleran
01-30-2008, 07:57 PM
They were done with the default river selection, per the tutorial. That's why I was asking about changing the width, I wasn't happy with the look of the rivers. Is it possible I do too much clicking while drawing the rivers?

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 08:02 PM
Nope, shouldn't be an issue with lots of clicking.

Possible it looks the way it does dueto scaling issue of the size of the map. Did you apply an effects to the map?

eleran
01-30-2008, 08:08 PM
Yes, at the very end I followed the tutorial and applied effects and played with the glow effect for the text. I can email the fcw file if you want.

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 08:17 PM
Yes, at the very end I followed the tutorial and applied effects and played with the glow effect for the text. I can email the fcw file if you want.

That should work. email to:

neonknight@telus.net

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 08:41 PM
OK, I've looked at it, and fix a couple of things. I'll post a message momentarily about what I fixed and how I did it in a few moments

eleran
01-30-2008, 08:44 PM
I look forward to it, and thanx again

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 09:02 PM
OK, When I viewed you map and applied the Sheet effects, I was at first saying...it didn't do anything :(

But then I looked and saw that, AAAAHhhhhhhh, the reason some of the effects did not appear to do anything was:

1. The assests weren't on the sheets I expected them to be on.

2. The default effects are set for a map approximately 10 times larger than your own map.

Also, as I was adjusting the map with the Sheet Effects appropriately, I notice afew othe things on your map. The most important being the forests. Now, this is not a complaint, as this is a learning method here, and I am going to show you one of the coolest things about CC3. When you look at your forest symbols, they are kind of all over. Some that should be behind are on top, etc. The symbols of this particulr CC3 catalog, Isometric, that is, they are not a top down view, but supposed to give the illusion of depth. That said, the symbols at the 'top' should be at the 'back' while the symbols at the 'bottom' should be at the front.

To help in this, when you are laying down the symbols for your mountains, forests, etc, you should start at the top and work your way down. But, if you don't, and you find an area that you missed or want something else in there, amybe half hidden, CC3 has a tool to help you. Under the SYMBOL menu, you will find the option SORT SYMBOLS IN MAP. CLicking on this will allow you to now select symbols, either individually or with a click+drag option. Select the symbols you want to sort, and CC3 will put the symbols at the top to the back, and the symbols at the bottom to front. I made another post about this a while back, and I will locate the thread to show in detail how to do this.

Now, as to your sheet effects.

You could change the light blue coast outline effect and change it from SEA to SEA (CONTOURS) sheet. By doing this, CC3's default CC3 overland effects will apply a slight blur to the sheet, and make it look a little 'cooler'.

The effects for the RIVERS sheet are all unchecked. Check to activate the GLOW effect, and the select edit. Level the strength as 1, but change the radius to a much lower number, like 1. The default of 84 meant the glow radius was SO large, the only way to see it would be zoom out of you map until it was tiny. Play around here to see what looks nice to you. The sheet effects is probably the biggest boon to CC3 over CC2, and makes for some really cool maps.

As to you map's river's appearing 'dashed' it was as I suspected, a scaling inssue because of the JPEG options used to save the map. You made no errors there, and just an unfortunate effect of the computer.

Here is an image of you map with the above mentioned sheet affects appiled

NeonKnight
01-30-2008, 09:42 PM
OK, took me a while to find the post :(

http://www.cartographersguild.com/showpost.php?p=9125&postcount=4

That shows in good detail the 'sort symbol' feature of CC3

eleran
01-30-2008, 09:57 PM
yeah, the trees got messed up because i decided to make a forest fill the space between desert and mountains, so I put a bunch of forest blocks in, then filled around them with small blocks and individual trees. I didnt even think about the top down thing. I will try your suggestions and repost the result.

jaerdaph
01-31-2008, 05:48 PM
Thanx Bryan. I will try that when I resume the tutorial after dinner tonight.

So, just to clarify, if I have a river on my map that I envision as a quarter mile across I want to set the width of the line at 0.25?

Hi eleran!

Glad to see you're enjoying CC3. Your map is looking very good. :)

I thought I'd mention a few things about scale in CC3 overland maps. First, standard fantasy overland map templates in CC3 don't have any set units. A distance of 1,000 can be 1,000 miles, 1,000 kilometers, 1,000 Klingon kelicams or what ever you desire. Compare this to the dungeon or city map templates that can have units of feet or meters.

Also, the fantasy style maps like the one you are making are not exactly proportional (I think that's the word I want?). A tree symbol with a size of 1.0 is not a 1 mile tall/wide tree - it just looks good on the map at that sizing. So while yes, if you are assuming that a unit of 1.0 in your map is equal to 1 mile, than 0.25 would be a quarter of a mile. But don't worry about being exact, because all the mountain, city, forest etc. symbols you are using are way out of proportion to reality - again, they just "look good" scaled at that size. So use whatever line widths you think "look good" on your map for rivers as well.

CC3 is still a CAD-based program so you can get exact, precision distances if you want them. If you were making a modern style topographic overland map, for example, with contour lines and all that, you would want to exactly map your river width.

I hope this is helpful and makes sense. Glad to have another CC3 user here. :)

eleran
02-02-2008, 10:12 AM
OK, I used Neonknight's advice and changed the effects around and it does look much better. Still not happy with the rivers, but I will keep playing around with it. Will be starting my campaign map today. I am going to starta WIP thread for it.

For some reason it wont attach itself this time. grrrrr