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View Full Version : May/June 2011 Lite Challenge Entry - Guinevere II-G Survey



walterful
05-29-2011, 03:07 AM
So, I've finally decided to participate in one of these challenges; I've been lurking these forums for far too long. That said...

Hi everybody!

There's really not much story with this; I was focusing on practicing techniques rather than content . Though conceptually, this is intended to be a Heads-Up Display in a panoramic viewport aboard the vessel doing the survey (hence the wideness). There's still a fair bit more I intend to add, though I run the risk of the scene becoming too busy. And as much as I would like to, I may not add the foreground "window treatment," for fear of ruining it.

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Ares96
05-29-2011, 06:19 AM
Nice! Very good first entry; much better than mine :/

Steel General
05-29-2011, 09:42 AM
Way to jump right in! :)

tilt
05-29-2011, 09:47 AM
very nice... and good to see another contestant jumping in :)

walterful
05-29-2011, 08:34 PM
Well, I've added some more details, but my original concern about extraneous info overload may be coming true. Part of my issue is my interpretation of the contest goals; I chose to go with a snapshot from the vessel performing the planetary survey rather than a detailed survey report (so, it's more of a scene, than anything). Sure, it's kinda pretty, but is it faithful to the contest?

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jtougas
05-29-2011, 11:30 PM
This is really good. Nice Job. :)

Omnigeek6
05-30-2011, 07:13 PM
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but I'll probably sound like one anyway.

According to your mass and radius data, Bittersweet should have a density of 0.64 g/cm^3. This is less than Saturn. However, as explained in this wikipedia article on gas giants:


A cold hydrogen-rich gas giant more massive than Jupiter but less than about 500 M⊕ (1.6 MJ), will be just slightly larger in volume than Jupiter.[7] For masses above 500 M⊕, degenerate pressure will cause the planet to shrink.[7] Kelvin-Helmholtz heating can cause a gas giant, such as Jupiter, to radiate more energy than it receives from its host star.[8][9]

The only exception to this rule is if the planet has a massive heat source. A planet can only get hot enough to puff up like this if (a) it is very close to its star, which is obviously not the case, or (b) it is fairly young, and still has a lot of heat left over from accretion. However, if the planet is too young, its moons would not have enough time to develop complex life. However, I don't know the math, so this situation could be possible.


Bittersweet's orbital period is also WAY too short. For a planet orbiting at 1.68 AU to have an orbital period of 1.33 years, its parent star would need to be almost 3 times as massive as the sun. Such a star would be something like a B8 or B9, and be about 70 times as luminous as the sun, and only have a lifespan of about 600 million years. This would have two main effects.

1. This star's habitable zone would be way out at 7-10 AU. Any life at only 1.68 AU would be fried.
2. Life would most likely not have time to even emerge, let alone evolve into a civilization, before the star blew up.

An orbital period of 2-2.25 years would be more reasonable, given that your planet should be near or a bit beyond the outer edge of the habitable zone. Alternately, you could keep your 1.33 year orbital period, but have Bittersweet orbit at only about 1.2 AU.

All the astrophysics stuff aside, you give the impression that this is supposed to be something you could see out of a spacecraft window. However, I took the liberty of making a computer model of Bittersweet and Garland using your statistics, and here is what I got: 36182

That's how big Bittersweet would look, assuming your ship was in a close orbit around Garland. The other moons would look even smaller.


Again, sorry if this sounds harsh or nitpicky. I'm just pointing out these errors as tips on how your entry could be made more scientifically accurate, since I have a feeling that accuracy could be important in this challenge.

jtougas
05-30-2011, 08:11 PM
Although this is not my entry I want to say thank you for putting in all the work in the above feedback. it's got me thinking... :)

walterful
05-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Curse you and your wet blanketry, Omnigeek. But thanks.

Actually, it's as good a time as any to get the cold science down. Last night, I stripped away all of the display data to rework the important bits, so I might as well fold this in too. I had used some random online orbital data calculator and that's where I had gotten my numbers (the star was something in a class F at 2.65 solar masses, btw); and as we all know, there is no false information on the interwebs :twisted:. Really, I was just lazy and didn't bother to get a second opinion, or question my own sciencing.

And yeah, forget the window; guess I should go with a screen since that's really the only way to get a constrained field of view that would allow for a scene this populated. Actually, since it's in the future, nothing to say it can't be both a window AND a viewscreen.

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Omnigeek6
05-30-2011, 10:10 PM
Curse you and your wet blanketry, Omnigeek. But thanks.

Actually, it's as good a time as any to get the cold science down. Last night, I stripped away all of the display data to rework the important bits, so I might as well fold this in too. I had used some random online orbital data calculator and that's where I had gotten my numbers (the star was something in a class F at 2.65 solar masses, btw); and as we all know, there is no false information on the interwebs :twisted:. Really, I was just lazy and didn't bother to get a second opinion, or question my own sciencing.

And yeah, forget the window; guess I should go with a screen since that's really the only way to get a constrained field of view that would allow for a scene this populated. Actually, since it's in the future, nothing to say it can't be both a window AND a viewscreen.

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Glad to know I didn't come off as TOO annoying... XP

A 2.65 solar mass star sounds about right for the orbital period, although F class sounds a bit cool. My calculations gave me a temperature of about 10,000 Kelvins, which would be an A0 or B9. It's possible the star in the calculations you used was slightly off the main sequence.

Incidentally, I highly recommend using Universe Sandbox for creating realistic planetary systems (You can find it on Steam. I'm not sure what the price is, since I bought it before the Steam release, but probably between $10 and $20).
My planetary systems are all made using a combination of Universe Sandbox, Wikipedia, Gimp, and occasionally Wilbur (a Fractal Terrain generator).
I've also got a little tip for calculating the characteristics of your stars: for a star on the main sequence, these three equations should approximate its traits:

M= mass (solar masses)
L= luminosity (suns)
R= radii (suns. 1 sun= 0.695 M km)
T= temperature (suns. 1 sun= 5778 k)

L=M^3.9 R=M^0.8 T= (L/R^2)^.25
Simplified, the last equation is T=M^0.575

By the way, I'd like to ask some advice from you: how did you make the gorgeous cloud map on Garland. Don't worry, I won't use the tip against you in this contest, I'm too far in.

walterful
05-30-2011, 10:49 PM
This is where I bow my head in shame and admit that I didn't make the textures of Bittersweet and Garland (land and clouds); the original 2D textures came from various Celestia downloads. I did, however, recolor, bump, spherize, and light them only in GIMP.

Although, now I'm starting to wonder if I did something bad contest-wise. I've been focusing on the data presentation as the focus of the contest, and that the world image (while pretty) was secondary to that. I thought I was within the rules, and to my knowledge, nothing used was copyrighted, but now I'm questioning the validity of my entry. I may have just pulled a Shepard Fairey (and not in the good way).

tilt
05-31-2011, 03:24 AM
its is not against the rules to use textures - so don't worry :)

Hai-Etlik
05-31-2011, 04:35 AM
I would be careful to check the Celestia data. The program itself is not Public Domain, it's covered by copyright and licensed to the public under the GNU GPL. The data may well be under the GPL or a similar Copyleft license as well. There is a big difference between Copyleft and Public Domain and you would do well not to confuse them. Just because both let you make and distribute derivative works, doesn't mean you can do so without restrictions.

Greason Wolfe
05-31-2011, 03:01 PM
Not bad, not bad at all. I can't offer any advice in regards to the texture question, but I hope you get it worked out without having to give up those gorgeous colors.

GW

walterful
06-01-2011, 03:33 AM
Whew! I'm just far more relieved to have not overstepped any forum mores. Legal Smeagol can take his precious domain lawyering and jump into Mount Doom, for all I care. Though, perhaps I mixed and stretched that metaphor a little too far.

Now I guess I need to give in to the peer pressure and provide at least some semblance of a story. With this competition heating up as it is, I kinda need to. Yes, that was a sideways compliment to my opponents; I've been so focused on working through my entry's issues that I've neglected to comment and praise your work as you have mine. But then again, I am a selfish bastard.

-----

Her duty shift over, Cass entered her quarters for the evening. As far as shakedown cruises go, this one has been a dream, she mused, only to winge at that thought a moment later. She rapped her knuckle on the bulkhead as she stepped over to the kitchenette, One of those carbon-filament molecules has to have been from a tree at some point. She grabbed a sealed mug, placed a Tea-Pearl(tm) in the chamber, and locked the mug into the hot water dispenser to fill it. There was a chime from her desk; likely another progress report request from Finance. She relaxed into her desk chair and took a moment to gaze at the starry expanse on the other side of the desk's viewport.

Breathe, she reminded herself.

Reaching across the workspace, she tapped on the viewport which darkened into display mode. Briefly, she admired the ease of the new ship's interface, though the design's alliance-deco influence was a bit too heavy for her taste. The message thumbnails cycled into the forefront: (!!!)Harris@HQ-Finance(!!!), Maxine@Home, (!)Aerin@HQ-Operations(!), (!!!)Harris@HQ-Finance(!!!), Danny@SSArdennes, (!!!)Harris@HQ-Finance(!!!). She selected Aerin's and smirked; it's very rare to hear from her. The video slid forward as it started.

"Hey Cass, since we've got you surveying NSD 86.75/3.09 in that brand new ship of ours, would you keep an eye out for the Barcelona? It seems your backup may be in need of assistance; communications with them went silent shortly after you shipped out. They were scouting some promising geological scans around the gas giant, Bittersweet. And yeah, we're looking into the AI's shorthand name choices; it almost seems like he's amusing himself. Oh, and Harris is waiting to hear from you. Sorry."

Damn.

Cass tapped on the system schematic and targeted the moons of the second planet. The screen changed into a live view of the gas giant's satellite system, focusing on each of the moons in turn with scan details overlaid. The survey stopped at the seventh moon, "Garland," and lit up with further details. She pressed the "Cockpit" button on the communications panel. "Marcus, set a course for 2-G, 'Garland.' Someone slipped up, and we've got trouble." As she walked out of her quarters, she glanced at the section of bulkhead she had knocked on only minutes before.

Damn.

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Steel General
06-01-2011, 08:18 AM
You have a bad attachment in the above post, try re-loading it.

walterful
06-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Oh, is that what happened to it? Good to know.

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jtougas
06-01-2011, 01:16 PM
This is really looking great. And I like your backstory too. :)

Troedel
06-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Repped for beauty!

walterful
06-01-2011, 07:01 PM
Thanks Troedel. Squee! My very first repping!

arsheesh
06-06-2011, 03:03 PM
Well have a bit from me as well because this is just fantastic work!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Wannabehero
06-13-2011, 12:55 PM
And some rep from over here too, as this is very gorgeous.

ravells
06-14-2011, 11:22 AM
This is going to be a hard month to vote....superb work, watlerful.