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RobA
02-27-2008, 10:40 PM
*** MARCH CHALLENGE: Not Your Father's Random Dungeon ***

This month's challenge hearkens back to the days of rogue, hack, and randomly generated dungeon crawls. Indispensable to the harried DM, there are a variety of tools for creating random dungeons with random contents, including Jamis Buck's Dungeon Generator (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi). Follow the link, take it for a spin, and get a few random dungeons in your file for further use--then head back here for the challenge...

This month's challenge is this herculean task: Take a specific dungeon created by the random generator by us and turn it into a cartographic work of art.

Here is the full link (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/dungeon.cgi?width=12&roomcnt=some&height=12&minroomw=2&maxroomw=6&sparse=crowd&minroomh=3&maxroomh=8&random=20&secret=5&deadends=50&concealed=5&level=1&resolution=20&seed=314159) that provides all the details we've randomly generated... 5 rooms, contents randomly assigned. To avoid burning up too much of their bandwidth here is an off-line copy you should work from: 2552.

Guidelines:

Everything specified in the descriptions must be reflected in your map.
Scale is the standard 5ft per square.
Additional details, contents, furnishings, ornamentation, fabrications, elevations (stairs), traps, or any other additions desired may be added so long as they are consistent with the source map.
Rooms containing monsters or characters should not actually depict them, but should reflect the inhabitant(s). For example, a spider implies webs...
It is recommended that one (or more) entrances to the dungeon are provided or indicated
Other than the last guideline, no rooms, corridors, or doors can be added to the dungeon layout.


The focus this month is the dungeon map itself. Any back-story or attempt to turn this random hodgepodge into something that makes sense will be enjoyed, but it won't count as a part of the final entry.

Remember to adhere to the contest rules, plus create a thread for your entry (WIPs welcome), and if you have any questions please post them in this thread. Good luck!

Redrobes
03-02-2008, 08:28 AM
Hi Rob, I can access the full link but I don't appear to have permissions for the attachment. Its no problem as I can save a copy from the full link but it might be worth checking in case something happens to the link. I can view the PDF ok from the box at the bottom tho so I guess its no big deal.

Redrobes
03-02-2008, 09:16 AM
Rob another question. Sigurd has done a different map - I know he has changed it etc but the original he has started with is different from the one I see.

Maybe I am missing the point here but is the map you want the one with a Krenshar in room 2 ? Or do you pick a new random dungeon and run with that.

Robbie
03-02-2008, 09:46 AM
I think the attachment in the description is broken because it was a copy from the planning thread we have in the community leaders private forum...I'll see if I can fix it.

And from the way I read the rules...yes you're supposed to use the ACTUAL random generator results that match the one in the pdf using the seed in the second link...the first link is just a courtesy link to the generator itself...I've adjusted the wording a little to clear it up a bit.

RobA
03-02-2008, 11:47 AM
Rob another question. Sigurd has done a different map - I know he has changed it etc but the original he has started with is different from the one I see.

Maybe I am missing the point here but is the map you want the one with a Krenshar in room 2 ? Or do you pick a new random dungeon and run with that.

Long answer in his thread....

Short answer is use the specific map (as Arcana has now modified the rules).

-Rob A>

RobA
03-02-2008, 11:49 AM
Another point of clarification is that there is no need to actually use this map image as a starting point! Just the layout.

So enlarge it, redraw it, project it on the side of a building, render it in 3D, draw it isographically, whatever...

The restriction is intended to be the layout, not the rendering...

Hope this initial clarification helps.

-Rob A>

Baziron
03-03-2008, 10:35 AM
So, just for re-assurance: I take your random seed code, go to the generator, enter that seed into the "random seed" box and then hit "generate dungeon"?

If so... Jesus. I'll see how I can make do with what I got.

Gamerprinter
03-03-2008, 10:40 AM
Or use the "full link" or the PDF download in the first post of this thread to access the specific dungeon map and contents required for this challenge...

Baziron
03-03-2008, 11:13 AM
Ah! Hm, okay, I see. I'll probably have to go for an completely out of the way style to have any success, buuuut... I guess I can think of something.

NeonKnight
03-03-2008, 01:35 PM
I'd like a clarification please.

I use the actual map and descriptions from the link and work from that, Correct?

ravells
03-03-2008, 03:13 PM
That's correct, Neon! Now break out your CC3 and get mapping!

NeonKnight
03-03-2008, 03:20 PM
Oh, I will....i will!

terrainmonkey
03-04-2008, 08:43 AM
i tried, i really did. i just can't work on this dungeon, it offends all of my map making sensibilities. there is no logic to it. too many corridors, and off of one room a hallway goes turns and comes back to the same room. THE SAME ROOM! AAAUGHGHGHGH!!!! (clawing eyes out)

To me, this is a dungeon built by the world's worst DM. i just can't do it. i'm so sorry.... :(

Carnifex
03-04-2008, 09:05 AM
i tried, i really did. i just can't work on this dungeon, it offends all of my map making sensibilities. there is no logic to it. too many corridors, and off of one room a hallway goes turns and comes back to the same room. THE SAME ROOM! AAAUGHGHGHGH!!!! (clawing eyes out)

To me, this is a dungeon built by the world's worst DM. i just can't do it. i'm so sorry.... :(

Half the challange is to make something out of nothing... think it over...

ravells
03-04-2008, 09:28 AM
i tried, i really did. i just can't work on this dungeon, it offends all of my map making sensibilities. there is no logic to it. too many corridors, and off of one room a hallway goes turns and comes back to the same room. THE SAME ROOM! AAAUGHGHGHGH!!!! (clawing eyes out)

To me, this is a dungeon built by the world's worst DM. i just can't do it. i'm so sorry.... :(

That's half the fun. I'm definitely treating mine as a comedy entry!

terrainmonkey
03-04-2008, 09:40 AM
actually, that's a good idea. i hadn't thought of that. i guess i take everything too seriously, then. hmmm.....

okay, i'll go with the concept of the worst dungeon master ever.

i'll start a thread right now.

Redrobes
03-04-2008, 01:36 PM
LOL, I have been thinking the same. Theres not much to do with it is there. I was thinking of at best trying a few ideas out on it. The comedy angle is definitely a good one tho. I'm not sure if I will make a stab at it yet. If I can think of a good and unusual way to do it then I will.

RobA
03-04-2008, 03:47 PM
OK - Here's an angle....

You are a poor, broke. DM who desperately wants to get into the cool area of digital mapping. Unfortunately all you have is the standard Office install and no internet connection. Do what you can.......

:)

-Rob A>

Redrobes
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
Tsk.. I'd have to be right on the bread line and *real* desperate to even install office... :twisted:

Its a bit late for that now anyway as i'm part way through a low effort slam dunk bish bosh one right now. :)

overwatch
03-06-2008, 08:35 AM
Hah, this contest is interesting. The random aspect sort of makes it like a project commission from hell. Good times. =)

Employer: "We don't really know what we want, but we have this sketch.. and we want a a kreshnar, some ant-centaur-whatevers, and an obligatory elf"

... whats a kreshnar?

Employer: "its like a pokey-man, Marketing says its popular with the kids"

... huh?

NeonKnight
03-06-2008, 08:49 AM
Tee hee hee:

Krenshars:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm_gallery/Krenshar.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG163.jpg

http://gemmadragon.com/gallery/krenshar.jpg

pyrandon
03-06-2008, 10:06 AM
Since I quit D&D back in the AD&D days (around 1987), everything in the past 20 years is new to me--like krenshars are new. These are some ugly dang puppies!

su_liam
03-06-2008, 07:39 PM
The first one wasn't too bad. Those last two were hideous!

delgondahntelius
03-06-2008, 09:44 PM
additional details, can we also include extra critters?
And can we add our own dungeon entrance? I was a bit hazy on that part...

NeonKnight
03-06-2008, 09:46 PM
The first one wasn't too bad. Those last two were hideous!

From the 3.5 SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/krenshar.htm

Scare (Ex or Su)

As a standard action, a krenshar can pull the skin back from its head, revealing the musculature and bony structures of its skull. This alone is usually sufficient to scare away foes (treat as a Bluff check with a +3 bonus).

Combining this scare ability with a loud screech produces an unsettling effect that works like a scare spell from a 3rd-level caster (Will DC 13 partial). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same krenshar’s scare ability for 24 hours. The shriek does not affect other krenshars. This is a supernatural, sonic mind-affecting fear effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.

RobA
03-06-2008, 10:44 PM
additional details, can we also include extra critters?
And can we add our own dungeon entrance? I was a bit hazy on that part...


From the original rules:

Additional details, contents, furnishings, ornamentation, fabrications, elevations (stairs), traps, or any other additions desired may be added so long as they are consistent with the source map.


Content Additions are allowed so long as the required elements are also there.

This would also include critters, so the answers are Yes, and Yes.

And add an entrance anywhere so long as it does not alter the layout of the map.

-Rob A>

Redrobes
03-08-2008, 01:50 PM
I have been having a hard time keeping up with all the posts so I have created a web page summarizing the entries. The images are the latest ones in the threads so far but are not automatically updating so click on the thread link to see the latest and ill attempt to keep it up to date best as I can.


The thumbnail link (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/MarchChallengers.htm)

alucard339
03-08-2008, 01:59 PM
That is a great idea and good Job Redrobes,
I proud of you :D,
Alu.

pyrandon
03-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Redrobes, this is freaking amazing! I have no idea how long that took, but I love it! I think we should do something like that for each month's challenge, whether we have 2 million entries or 2.

Thank you thank you thank you!

(Repped!)

Redrobes
03-09-2008, 10:22 AM
Thanks Anu & Don, it didn't take more than a few minutes. The hard part is/will be keeping it up to date so I hope people will forgive me if I am a few days behind. I have changed the images to local made thumbnails as it was loading all the large images in from the site. I deliberately kept them small so that there is some incentive to look at the thread and get the text and latest updates. Its no more than a quick rough guide to remind me what the round up is like. I find it useful when the voting starts to have the list of entries but this month we have 14 entries and 2 promises so I need it now. Since you think its a good idea ill try to do this each month and post the link right after the opening of the challenge so the link is at the top. Ta for the rep :)

alucard339
03-09-2008, 01:05 PM
Any admin:
:idea:
Redrobes The thumbnail link should be made a sticky alone post just below the challenge rules.

;)

It will definitely be an awesome upgrade to the voting process, more to the point for those timid members who don't want to go through all the text of each entry,

Really a great job Redrobes and good initiative. I'm happy and jealous of you because, I had that idea since last December challenge, but I'm really not good at web programming so can't do it for now.

Here get 1 rep point from me, because you could do something I wanted to do.

Maybe we could work Redrobes page a little to give it the same look as the rest of our forum and by the same account make a default version for each month challenge.

Redrobes
03-09-2008, 07:14 PM
Firstly, if you want to know how its done just display the source and play. I just write it in wordpad - no special app required. You would need to copy all the thumbnail images and put them in the same directory as I have used relative pathnames for them.

I was thinking about (perhaps !) doing a little Perl script which could scrape a section off of a fixed post and build the page automatically so that any admin could then edit the post and it would update the page. I'm not sure if I would have the time to try that but it sounds doable. I have done something similar in a previous incarnation so that a wiki page had a text based data on stuff and the CGI Perl draw a map based on the stuff so wiki edits made the map. If this site could support custom perl CGI scripts then that would be fine or else I'll host it like the current one.

Sigurd
03-18-2008, 12:37 AM
I just wanted to apologize for my disappearance and wish all the competitors well. Real life has kept me from a computer for most of the last couple of weeks.

The entries look good and it is interesting to see all of them using the same room layout.


Good luck to each of you.


Sigurd

RobA
03-18-2008, 01:35 AM
I just wanted to apologize for my disappearance and wish all the competitors well. Real life has kept me from a computer for most of the last couple of weeks.

The entries look good and it is interesting to see all of them using the same room layout.


Good luck to each of you.


Sigurd

I was concerned that I had frightened you away after my "rule judgment". Hope you find the time to get some mapping done :) Maybe next month's contest!

-Rob A>

Darth_Gimp
03-18-2008, 06:12 AM
What is the entry deadline for the challenge?

delgondahntelius
03-18-2008, 07:19 AM
I believe its five days to the last day of the month.. in this case... the 26th...its in the challenge rules located here:http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=503

Redrobes
03-24-2008, 03:59 PM
Hi guys, Earlier I posted a link to an overview of this months entries...


The thumbnail link (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/MarchChallengers.htm)

...which I have been trying to keep up to date. I said that I would try to make a CGI dynamic page to gather up all the entries automatically and present them. I have been trying to do that and I have a script now.

The problem is that it takes so long to click on a challenge thread and get the results back that after 16 of them plus the time to search, download the image, rescale and present it, it takes too long to run as a CGI script.

So what I am intending to do from next month onwards is to run this script locally to myself and upload all of the thumbs that it generates for me. The script will take a few minutes to run and I may even be able to get it to ftp the results up for me too. Thats going to be easier than me clicking on 16 threads now and again to check I haven't missed any.

So in the future I am proposing that I will make a list of entries locally but if you want the script to put the latest WIP image into the thumbs page then just put...

### Latest WIP ###

as the last thing in your post, before the image and it will find the last one and use the next image as the current thumb. I have done this on my challenge entry this month for example.

I can make the script available to Arcana or any admin who wants to look at it.

pyrandon
03-24-2008, 04:40 PM
Redrobes, I'm a tech idiot, but if this script of which you speak works the way I think it will work, that's awesome! Thank you!!

I'll leave it to Arcana and my other betters to decide what/how to utilize all your hard work, but I see great things in the future!

Redrobes
03-24-2008, 05:11 PM
It logs itself in and fetches a page which contains lines like these...

### New Challenge Entry:Redrobes,1604
### New Challenge Entry:GamerPrinter,1588
### New Challenge Entry:NeonKnight,1611

...somewhere in it. The numbers represent the thread id's. Then it goes through the threads looking for that latest WIP thing and grabs the link to the next image. The script loads up a database and checks if the attachment id is the same as the current thumbnail and if not then it fetches that image and rescales it to thumb size and saves/overwrites it out and updates the database file. Then it writes out the web page bit for that entry too.

So you start with a file or webpage containing a list of entries and the usual set of entry threads as normal. The list could be the challenge description like this thread with a post containing this list or each person could post and add themselves. You might have a database file from a previous run also.

In the end you have a database text file of thumbnail attachment id's, a list of thumbnail PNG files and the web page linking the thumbnails like that of the link above. The latter two being required / uploaded for the web page view.

Maybe if it was run on the same machine that was serving the files then it would (or could be made to) take the files locally from the HDD and therefore not have to go via apache + net and then be fast enough to run as a CGI. This I would grant you would be a tricky thing to get right. So running locally to me/an admin (i.e. across the net) and uploading the results is much easier.