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Mateus090985
09-10-2011, 10:02 PM
!!!NEW VERSION OF THE MAP ON THE BOTTON!!!

Hello Hive Mind!

I have learned some tricks of my new bought CC3. So after a first map that took me one week to "finish" to learn the program, I want to try to build the map of my fantasy world in a way that I really apreciate. I am using the style proposed by the Cartographer Annual 2009 "Fantasy Worlds" BUT I am having problems primary with scale. Its a 10 000 x 8 000 map, with in my mind means that it have 10 000 x 8 000 miles. Every symbol scale to 10 in the program and I am inicially pleased if the scale that the symbols looks on the map, because I can put mountains and others things in the very small islands that I am drawing. One of the problems is with the Defalt Terrain Tools that dont scale... I can draw a beautfull mountain range in a small issland, but with I try to put forests there the scale mess up. Another problem that I am having is how to put an island inside a lake. I tryed to toy with the sheets but I did not resolve, the lake always goes in front of the island that I draw.
Well, what I already have? I first draw the main lands. Second I put all the larger islands. After that I draw the profundity lines in the ocean and put A LOT of smaller islands where I thought it fit well. Then I draw contour lines in the bays and near islands. Last I begin with the bodys of water inland. but did not finished it.
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NEW VERSION: WORK IN PROGRESS - SEE POST #13 AND LATTER TO SEE THE WIP.

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Ascension
09-10-2011, 11:53 PM
Not too bad really. Colors are good and shapes are pretty nice but they need some adjusting. The outside edges all follow the edges of the frame...try to make those outside edges as complex and interesting as the insde where things are broken up and "crazy" looking. That's what we want, that hectic look. I think you could also take out a bunch of islands as they make things look like a lava lamp. Overall, pretty good, though.

Mateus090985
09-11-2011, 08:48 AM
Not too bad really. Colors are good and shapes are pretty nice but they need some adjusting. The outside edges all follow the edges of the frame...try to make those outside edges as complex and interesting as the insde where things are broken up and "crazy" looking. That's what we want, that hectic look. I think you could also take out a bunch of islands as they make things look like a lava lamp. Overall, pretty good, though.

Thanks for the critiism. I really see your point, but I have to figure out how to "erase" parts of the draw or resize it. I put A LOT of very small islands that can only be seen zooing, but I will see if can bring a cleanner map.

Kelron
09-11-2011, 12:40 PM
That`s a good start, I like your work so far.

You can edit the shape with the "e"-button, just look up in the manual how that exactly works. I`d rescale tha map to be a little bit bigger, than move the contintens for a more random look. I`d also cut off the small connetcion between the big continent on the left side. So you can better rearrange the stuff. You can combine them afterwards again. Same for the right one.

Keep it up

Mateus090985
09-11-2011, 03:46 PM
That`s a good start, I like your work so far.

You can edit the shape with the "e"-button, just look up in the manual how that exactly works. I`d rescale tha map to be a little bit bigger, than move the contintens for a more random look. I`d also cut off the small connetcion between the big continent on the left side. So you can better rearrange the stuff. You can combine them afterwards again. Same for the right one.

Keep it up

When you say rescale are your refering to a tool from the program or do you mean do it again in a bigger template? I dont understand very well what the diference beteween create a map in a 10 000 x 8 000 or in a 1 000 x 800. It looks the same to me.

Kelron
09-12-2011, 06:33 AM
When you say rescale are your refering to a tool from the program or do you mean do it again in a bigger template? I dont understand very well what the diference beteween create a map in a 10 000 x 8 000 or in a 1 000 x 800. It looks the same to me.
Yes, you can rescale with the modifiaction-tool, the CTRL-key (if I remember right) and the mouse.

It affects the initial scale bar and the "special effects" or the fonts, due they have miles as units

Mateus090985
09-12-2011, 07:40 AM
Excellent tip!!! This makes things a lot easier! I have also bought the Fractal Terrains and I am seeing if its better to begin the world using it.

Mateus090985
09-13-2011, 09:34 AM
I have decided that I will do my world map in FT Pro and brake it in several parts and THEN I will work it on CC3. I ask your appologies for your time. I appreciate the feedback, but will begin a post based on my map on FT Pro. Some admin can close this if he/she find that way the best solution.

Mateus

Kelron
09-14-2011, 02:58 PM
What encouraged you to make this decision? The good placement of mountains etc.? I`m also struggling a little bit with that at the moment :D

Then best of luck with your next try, I`m looking forward for your next results

Mateus090985
09-14-2011, 04:35 PM
What encouraged you to make this decision? The good placement of mountains etc.? I`m also struggling a little bit with that at the moment :D

Then best of luck with your next try, I`m looking forward for your next results

I want scale to be as perfect as I can get. FT Pro do it for me and allows me to break the world map in the scale and in what quantities I want. ProFantasy is realising in few weeks FT 3 that is fully compatible with CC3 in terms of sheets, etc (at least this is what they are saying), so I will wait for it and then start my real project. In the mean time I will try myself with City Designer 3 and maybe try to learn more form the programs that I recently bought.

Kelron
09-15-2011, 01:02 AM
Then best of luck and, most importantly, fun ;)

Mateus090985
02-05-2012, 11:21 AM
I will put the new version of my map here and lests continue from there! =)

NEW VERSION ON POST #1.

Mateus090985
02-06-2012, 09:55 AM
So, a little update. I put in in a Equirectangular Projection. I also made visible some lines, I continued to work on the second continent and I rearranjed all landmasses for the new projection.

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Hai-Etlik
02-06-2012, 10:38 AM
A compass rose, scale bar, and Platee Carre over a whole globe don't go together A flat global map without interruptions won't have a consistent scale, and it isn't going to preserve compass bearings. Also it doesn't show any of the distortion Platee Carre would produce.

Mateus090985
02-06-2012, 11:06 AM
A compass rose, scale bar, and Platee Carre over a whole globe don't go together A flat global map without interruptions won't have a consistent scale, and it isn't going to preserve compass bearings. Also it doesn't show any of the distortion Platee Carre would produce.

Thanks for your comments Hai-Etlik. I am very new to mapping and I do it only for my personal RPG games. So I dont know much about "real" carthography. What I want is a belivable world that I can easily point things to my players and tell then how much time it will cost then to travel from one place to the other. Thats why I need a scale. I cant understand why a compass rose isnt apropriate for this kind of map and I dont know what distortions you are talking about. I made a little web search about Plate Carre but I still dont know what you are talking about... =)

Hai-Etlik
02-06-2012, 11:59 AM
Thanks for your comments Hai-Etlik. I am very new to mapping and I do it only for my personal RPG games. So I dont know much about "real" carthography. What I want is a belivable world that I can easily point things to my players and tell then how much time it will cost then to travel from one place to the other. Thats why I need a scale. I cant understand why a compass rose isnt apropriate for this kind of map and I dont know what distortions you are talking about. I made a little web search about Plate Carre but I still dont know what you are talking about... =)

Plate Carree (Sorry, I misspelled it before) is the Normal Tangent case of Equidistant Cylindrical/Equirectangular, which is what you seem to be using. With a cylindrical projection, the map is notionally wrapped around the globe. Normal means it's in line with the axis, and tangent means it's just touching the surface rather than cutting through. So a normal tangent projection is wrapped around the equator. You can have equidistant cylindrical/equirectangular projections that have other axes or which cut through the globe. This might seem odd but there are reasons for using "transverse", "oblique", and "secant" projections.

Now consider how long is the equator. Then consider, how long is the top edge of the map. The top edge of the map is the north pole, a single point. This projection is stretching out east-west distance everywhere but the equator, and as you approach the pole, the stretching approaches infinity. That's why a scale bar doesn't work. It's also why the map should look distorted as, if it is in this projection, the shapes should be stretched out east-west, with the stretch getting stronger as you approach the poles.

Look at the islands of northern Canada in these two maps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Equirectangular_projection_SW.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canada_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg

The first is in Normal Tangent Equidistant Cylindrical, the second is in Orthographic centred on North America (roughly what you'd see from very high up). You need that distortion in the map, otherwise you are distorting the land itself the other way so that everything gets pinched toward the poles. This is the main reason this projection is used is that it's easy, because it's really ugly and distorts both area and angles significantly.

Now, consider if there were giant compasses on the ground so that they would be visible on the map. They would be stretched too. Because the stretching is in line with the cardinal directions, they remain the same, but all other directions get skewed, and the amount they get skewed varies with where on the map you are. So northwest near the equator would be half way between north and west, but up in the arctic, it would be much closer to west (on the map). Some projections manage to keep the compasses the right shape, but rotate them. and these projections are called "Conformal". There is one conformal projection that doesn't rotate them, and it is called Normal Mercator.

Roughly, what Mercator does is that it adds a north-south stretch equal to the east-west stretch, so everything gets bigger in all directions as you get closer too the poles. It was designed for marine navigation when all we had compasses but couldn't measure distance very accurately. As the east-west distortion approaches infinity, so must the north-south distortion, so the projection never reaches the poles, it just keeps going and going north and south.

A compass rose is a way of saying "compass bearings on this map are true" the same way a scale bar says "distances are true" And like a sscale bar, it indicates what the relationship is. A scale bare shows a distance and tells you what that distance is in real life, a compass rose shows directions and what they are in real life. So a compass rose should only ever appear on a map that is in Normal Mercator, or on a map which covers a small area in a suitable projection.

Likewise, a scale bar should generally only appear on a map that covers a fairly small area because all projections distort scale. About the only way around this is with interruptions, which amount to "tears" in the map like in the Goode Homolosine projection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Goode_homolosine_projection_SW.jpg

Mateus090985
02-06-2012, 01:00 PM
I have a lot to think about... I will continue to draw the landmasses and see what I do with the projection latter. I am using CC3 and have access to FT3 but the last one is a little too hard for me to use well.

Hai-Etlik
02-06-2012, 03:28 PM
I have a lot to think about... I will continue to draw the landmasses and see what I do with the projection latter. I am using CC3 and have access to FT3 but the last one is a little too hard for me to use well.

Well, a lot of people here at the guild ignore this stuff entirely but if you want to get it right, you need to deal with it at the beginning. It's not something you can apply a filter to and get a corrected result pop out. There are sometimes ways to fudge things and make it work after the fact, but it isn't always possible and it's often a lot of work.

Mateus090985
02-07-2012, 12:23 PM
Here is an updated version. I am almost done with the continets and principal islands. The lines are only for reference, so I have a better notion of sun incidence.

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I am really puting a lot of work on it as I am still a "novice" in mapmaking =).

Now I want to move to the relif. I dont want to use mountain symbols, so I am thinking in trying the CA24 - Shaded Relief. Do I have to use it in conjunction with Height Contours? Is it a lot of "work intensive"?

Mateus090985
02-08-2012, 03:43 PM
Here is what I am plaining for my reliev. I tryed some colour combination and have come with this. I will use a diferent shhet for each countour (I will do then in intervals of 500 m for this map). I am using the same Texturize in the countour that I use for the landmass and I am also using a Edge Fade Inner (edge 5 / inner opacy 95%).

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Mateus090985
02-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Here is the world view of my map in the moment. Each colour is a 500m mark, but in this resolution is mpossible to see every detail. So I will put a "zoom". I have hided all water cause I am stil working on it and I want the focus to be the landmasses for the moment.

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Mateus090985
02-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I will create a properly WIP thred for my map. Thanks for everybody who helped here.