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Sabbz
01-11-2012, 06:44 PM
Hi everyone :)

Tried a new style of mapping (the old style was always "meh"), here it is: Link to Kingdom of Eshenor (http://sabbz27.deviantart.com/art/Kingdom-of-Eshenor-278740273)

Let me know what you think, thanks.

Regards,
Sabbz

maxsdaddy
01-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Welcome to the guild. Bolder lettering for the text, or a different color to help it stand out a bit. Post the "meh" style map for comparison.

Sabbz
01-12-2012, 04:14 AM
Hi, and thanks :)

Yeah, I've fiddled with the lettering - but I'm struggling to keep the "authentic" look to the image. The idea being that the map was hand-drawn and the ink used is very "thin". I'll experiment some more :)

Attached is my "meh" style. I like it and all, but when I look at it I go "meh". :P

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Lukc
01-12-2012, 04:26 AM
Actually your "meh" style has immense potential if you ask me ... the pencil work looks very authentic and the whole thing is very CLEAR, which is great for maps, if you ask me. With a *little* bit of fiddling, you could make it look awesome. Maybe a nice border, some other map elements (a graticule comes to mind), some work on the seas so they look like water instead of clouds (unless it's a floating continent), some more variation in fonts (a small caps version for country names, regular for towns and such, itallics for natural features), rivers that narrow at their heads, maybe some very gentle shading (a duplicated coloured multiply and burn layer would work) ...

:)

Fumbs up!

Eilathen
01-12-2012, 06:56 AM
Woah...holy mother... i'm sorry, i mean i like your new style as well, but your "meh" style is just awesome...imho a lot better than your new style. I'd really like to see more maps in your "meh" style.

Have some rep.!

Freodin
01-12-2012, 08:00 AM
Sorry, I cannot say I like that (new) style. I think you tried to put too many different features into this map, especially considering what you wrote on DeviantArt - "I tried to bring around a certain level of realism to the map, as if it had been drawn by someone from my world."

Perhaps it is just my inability to identify all the different styles, but I'd say you should start by asking yourself two basic questions: "How did I do that?" and "How would someone from my world get that result?" Maybe (re)do a step-by-step work in progress for this finshed map... then you (and we) might be able to identify the steps where you missed your goal of an "authentic" map. (Or you might convince me that I am wrong in my assertion. ;) )

Sabbz
01-12-2012, 09:10 AM
Actually your "meh" style has immense potential if you ask me ... the pencil work looks very authentic and the whole thing is very CLEAR, which is great for maps, if you ask me. With a *little* bit of fiddling, you could make it look awesome. Maybe a nice border, some other map elements (a graticule comes to mind), some work on the seas so they look like water instead of clouds (unless it's a floating continent), some more variation in fonts (a small caps version for country names, regular for towns and such, itallics for natural features), rivers that narrow at their heads, maybe some very gentle shading (a duplicated coloured multiply and burn layer would work) ...

:)

Fumbs up!

Thanks, :) - I'll take what you said into account; for me a "meh" style is something I like but can't think of what to put in it to make it "wow" and that throws me off it. I've, unfortunately, lost the PSD for that map so I'll have to redo it but the nice thing is that it wasn't difficult to accomplish.



Woah...holy mother... i'm sorry, i mean i like your new style as well, but your "meh" style is just awesome...imho a lot better than your new style. I'd really like to see more maps in your "meh" style.

Have some rep.!

Here you go, lol.

I've only done the two, the idea being that Greater Setis is the Northern half of the continent, while Ahalgain is the Southern - they don't join that well but well enough I guess, lol.

Thank you for boosting my confidence in my "meh" style :P

Edit: Thanks for the rep! :)




Sorry, I cannot say I like that (new) style. I think you tried to put too many different features into this map, especially considering what you wrote on DeviantArt - "I tried to bring around a certain level of realism to the map, as if it had been drawn by someone from my world."

Perhaps it is just my inability to identify all the different styles, but I'd say you should start by asking yourself two basic questions: "How did I do that?" and "How would someone from my world get that result?" Maybe (re)do a step-by-step work in progress for this finshed map... then you (and we) might be able to identify the steps where you missed your goal of an "authentic" map. (Or you might convince me that I am wrong in my assertion. ;) )

No need to apologise, this was just an attempt at a new style (one with colours and that whole "it's been used" look) and I did ask for feedback/comments so I appreciate your honesty, :). Others prefer my "meh" style anyway, so I'll build on that; starting with what Lukc suggested and working up from that. :D

"We live and we learn, or we remain ignorant and foolish forever." :)

Sabbz
01-12-2012, 06:12 PM
Just a quick post, attached are two images for my new and improved "meh"-style version 2, :P
The one image is only a portion (a single province to be exact) of the kingdom I'm designing, the second is a full continent image to set the scale of the province in relation to the rest of the kingdom.
Still deciding on the actual scale ([0--50--100 km] thingy that appears on maps, don't know what it's called) though; I'm concerned that if it's too big then the population will be too small, or if it's too small the population is too big, or if it's too big my horses will die before my d00ds get from one town to the next xD

But, anyway, this is what I've got so far. :)

Edit:
A few thoughts.
1. I changed the geographical feature names to Italics, the effect isn't unpleasant but neither is it pleasing. 50/50 on it.
2. I may have gone overboard with the banners, lol (just a little xD); but I can't think of a way to make the fonts legible without resorting to my version 1 "meh"-style.
3. I may remove all banners save for province capitals (Vinna in this case) and work something else out for the rest.
4. The desert looks like water.



P.S: Not sure where I should create a thread for "on-going" maps so I can post the progress of this map; I didn't see a On-Going section, so at the moment I'm thinking "General Discussion". :)

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lostatsea
01-12-2012, 06:40 PM
I prefer the MEH style as well ! I think color washes and a subdued border would make it pop. the New style is trying to hard . The colors are too saturated and too close in the same color family to do there intended job. Which is to separate and draw attention to the different features of the Map. Ex Separate Water from Land ; Mountains from Hills from Plains. I downloaded the "meh" map for personal reference and I am picky about my reference materials. I think you should keep the "MEH" style and just spruce it up abit. Have some REP by the way !!

Correct forum would be regional /World maps with a WIP in the title .

Sabbz
01-13-2012, 02:26 AM
I prefer the MEH style as well ! I think color washes and a subdued border would make it pop. the New style is trying to hard . The colors are too saturated and too close in the same color family to do there intended job. Which is to separate and draw attention to the different features of the Map. Ex Separate Water from Land ; Mountains from Hills from Plains. I downloaded the "meh" map for personal reference and I am picky about my reference materials. I think you should keep the "MEH" style and just spruce it up abit. Have some REP by the way !!

Correct forum would be regional /World maps with a WIP in the title .

Thank you ! :D

jbgibson
01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
Your "meh" is really good. The main thing it lacks is contrast. Sticking with monochrome, you're already challenging yourself to get enough distinction between elements.

Like I commented on your newer style over in your duplicate post :-) there's some mixed messages going (here commenting on the supposedly "meh" Ahalgain & Greater Setis). The light outer glow on the text does improve its legibility ... but think just HOW would a man with a piece of parchment and a nib pen accomplish that? All your elements run right up to the light halos like they had been drawn completely then had text-shaped holes erased. But if your cartographer lettered the text, how did he erase background without erasing the label? Or if he erased in advance of the label THEN put in the labels, well WOW was he ever precise. See what I mean? I don't have a complete solution to suggest, just an angle you can think about.

In addition to Lukc's suggestion on tapered rivers, you need to take a look at their branching. Think "roots of plant" or "branches of tree", not "spider's web" .... on its journey from high to low, water is almost always going to join, never rebranch. Islands in rivers are going to generally be tiny compared to the length of the whole river network. Take a look at Redrobes' tutorial on How To Get Your Rivers In the Right Place. (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?3822-How-to-get-your-rivers-in-the-right-place&p=42630&viewfull=1#post42630) <wonder if I can make a macro to speed me dropping that suggestion into a post :-).... > For instance, your River Deratan in the Ahalgain map has all those alternate ways to the sea. Except for the restricted case of a delta, if water has two apparent choices, it will always flow in the even slightly lower course, leaving the slightly higher one dry. Even if two choices are temporarily equal, one will quickly erode more and be the "better" choice, and will capture all the flow. Sure, in flood time maybe there's so much water that other channels get we too. But that is a temporary situation.

The font is fine, at the smaller sizes. It's way more legible than many script fonts, yet still looks a little fancy/calligraphic. But when you make use of the same thing as a display font for the title, it goes to looking typeset. Think - how would the guy who so meticulously lettered in all the little labels do what you have as "Greater Setis" -- with a pen nib a third of an inch wide? Naaaah - any self-respecting calligraphist would do something fancier, to show off :-).

The hills and mountains are really well done, and the forests are nicely randomized.

For enhanced contrast how would it look if you brought your coastline up to the darkness of the text?

I like the embossed-parchment new style, but I like your older stuff just as well. Nice work!

ScotlandTom
01-16-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm going to second some of jbgibson's points, especially regarding contrast. It would be really easy to do a levels adjustment in Photoshop to really bring up those dark values and keep the whole piece from looking so washed out.

Really liking all the details on this one though. Excellent use of brush work.