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Simon33600
02-03-2012, 07:29 AM
So, I got to play around a bit more using GIMP and produced this little temple:


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The temple is dedicated to Moradin, the hammered-wielding Dwarven god of blacksmithing. This gave me the idea of using a giant war-hammeras an altar.
The braziers on both sides represent the forge... (most of the furniture was pilfered from the Dundjinni's forum, I hope nobody minds).


There is also a roofed version. The tiles were made using MSZ's wonderful tutorial (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?14354-how-to-create-a-tiled-roof-pattern-in-gimp).
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What do you guys think about it?

Wannabehero
02-03-2012, 10:44 AM
Looks very good Simon.

I do have a couple of questions and/or suggestions. First, why are the grass and dirt path areas of the map shaped like they are? It seems fairly odd unless there is a wall or fence enclosing it, which I believe is what the shading is trying to suggest. If this is the case then perhaps a stronger graphical indicator of the presence of the barrier would add nicely to the map. If you need some tile sets or just a bit of inspiration on the approach to this, trying looking at Torstan's very lovely maptools tile pack, http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?4721-Dungeon-tiles-a-small-project, it has some great wall sections in it that you could recolor if need be, though their hand-drawn style might not jive particularly well with your crisper image.

Second, the outlining of the building is done in a very light color, seems to be a brownish green (to my eyes at least, I have trouble with colors). A stronger darker color, even pure black (though you would want to significantly reduce the weight of the line then) could make the building stand out more and better define the edge against the grass.

Suggestions aside, very nice map. Thanks for sharing it!

Simon33600
02-03-2012, 11:07 AM
Much thanks!

There is indeed a wall surrounding the building, with three gates in it, each leading to one of the paths.

The walls are in the same dark brown colour as the building's walls, though. So, considering these are not "poppy enough", there might not be easy to see. Especially considering they are even thinner...


I will change this then.
Thanks again for the advices!

Simon33600
02-03-2012, 11:51 AM
Here; I modified the walls' colour.

In fact, they are not whiter, but it seems to me they are easier to see that way...


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I also had the idea to put a little blurry zone on both sides of the paths. The idea was to make a smoother transition. But I am not happy as to how they turned out. It was tacked on after the paths were made, though, and the bump map and the grids to not follow them, giving them a weird aspect...

I think I will use try it later, though, but this time do it at the moment I am constructing the paths...

Bogie
02-03-2012, 05:45 PM
2 bits of advice on the roof, totally subject to individual preferences.

The roof matches the color of the path to closely, I think it would look better if there were some contrast.

Aside from the lines showing the shape of the roof, it looks flat. Add shadows and gradients to give it depth. Here is a roof by Digger at Dundjinni that has great depth from shading.
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Simon33600
02-03-2012, 06:23 PM
Thanks. I will work on that.

Thesslian
02-03-2012, 06:53 PM
Nice. Just a thought, but as I recall Moradin is the head of the dwarven pantheon, which would probably put a temple of Moradin underground. Might want to give it to a different deity. Unless your dwarves moved above ground for some reason.

Simon33600
02-03-2012, 07:11 PM
My idea is that they were dwarves but living in a human city, and there even have some human followers (blacksmith and metal workers mainly) of Moradin attending.
But I also had the idea that a bigger subterranean complex also existed, for the clergy and the administration of the temple...

Simon33600
02-04-2012, 08:24 AM
2 bits of advice on the roof, totally subject to individual preferences.

The roof matches the color of the path to closely, I think it would look better if there were some contrast.

Aside from the lines showing the shape of the roof, it looks flat. Add shadows and gradients to give it depth. Here is a roof by Digger at Dundjinni that has great depth from shading.



Next try...


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The tiles are now blue to contrast with the paths better. Plus, it had the advantage of suggesting a slate roof. Slates are good reliable stones rather than puny baked clay... In retrospect, it seems more dwarwish to me. But maybe they are a bit too blue now.

I also try to adjust the shadows. I don't know if they are very good now (for some reason I have trouble visualisig where real shadows would fall), but I thin that they are quite a bit better than they were before.

Bogie
02-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Nice, big improvement on the roof. Try reducing the color saturation a little ( 10% to 20% less ) to make the blue less bright blue and see if you like how that looks.

Simon33600
02-04-2012, 12:58 PM
Thanks.

What do you think of it, now?


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Bogie
02-04-2012, 01:29 PM
OOps Double post

Bogie
02-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Yeah, now that looks like a roof!

Now lets look at the building walls.
1st, the roof should overhang the wall, so in this view with the roof, the wall shouldn't be seen at all. Make the roof a little bigger and it will cover it.
For the interior view the wall could use some texture. Stone blocks would look good, but even just a grainy texture so it doesn't look like a plain line.
I am not familiar with GIMP but it should be close enough to photoshop to follow this.
As an example, I drew a plain colored line:
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Then I used the Filter Gallery to apply a couple of textures and this is what I got in just a couple minutes of playing around. The first filter is just called Texture, the second is Mosaic. Gimp should have something similar.
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Wannabehero
02-04-2012, 02:00 PM
Huge improvement on the roof, it looks really great now! Bogie has hit on the very next suggestion I was going to make, which is to work on the walls.

If you have trouble figuring out how to apply the texture to your walls, you can brute force it by taking a texture from the internet, such as those at CGtextures.com (http://www.cgtextures.com/) or any other free internet resource, place it on the layer above your walls, convert the texture image to grayscale (image -> Black and White), set the layer mode to overlay, and then mask the texture layer so it only shows through on your walls. After that you can play with the layer opacity of the overlay or the brightness/contrast of the texture until you have the right effect on your walls.

If you haven't played around with layer masks in gimp before, the gimp tutorial for it is here (http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-layer-mask-add.html). It basically lets you erase something from a layer without erasing it for real.

Also, on another note, the edges of the lines drawn for the walls are very sharp and visibly aliased (the boundaries between pixels are apparent). I would suggest either a slight gaussian blur on the layer with the walls (setting of maybe 2px) to help breakup the edge, or you could also draw a very thin black line over the edges of the walls. If you do the second thing be sure that the line mode is set to be anti-aliased so you have some blending along the edges of the line. You could possibly do both things.

This map is really looking good now Simon, keep up the good work.

Simon33600
02-04-2012, 05:24 PM
Thanks very much to both of you for all your advices.


As it just so happen, I have actually been trying to figure out how to sexy up the walls (I actually left another post on that subject).
the method you suggest seems much easier than the convoluted process I had been using...

Simon33600
02-06-2012, 09:43 AM
Ok, I worked on adding some texture to the walls and fixing the roof overhang problem:

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Now, should I blur the layer mask for the walls?

atpollard
02-06-2012, 11:39 AM
I offer some fine tuning advice on the roof. My pattern is not better than yours, I selected it because I think that it is easier to see orientation than your pattern. Just rotate your roof patterns to align with the roof segments as indicated:

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Wannabehero
02-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Those walls look much better Simon, excellent. A very tiny amount of shadowing around the edges would help them pop out more, but I definitely like them better than the solid tan lines.

Also, a very good suggestion atpollard, I can't believe I overlooked the roof there. If you can swing it Simon, the suggested change by atp would be an excellent modification.

Bogie
02-07-2012, 02:27 PM
The map is really shaping up! Nice modifications.

maxsdaddy
02-09-2012, 09:56 PM
My son's character in our role playing game is a dwarf paladin who is a follower of Moradin. I will be shamelessly "borrowing" this map as a template as a place where his character can be annointed. Thanks for sharing.
have some rep.

Simon33600
02-15-2012, 05:30 PM
Thanks very much and glad this could be of use.


I hope to start working on the subterranean complex at some point...


Best wishes to your son, may the hammerer keep him safe in his journeys...

Simon33600
03-06-2012, 12:34 PM
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Ok, I went back and toyed with orienting the roof structures and features following Art's advices...


What do you guys think of it now?