View Full Version : Alternative to Voting System

02-19-2012, 10:28 AM
First for a couple of disclaimers:

One : I don’t know if the suggestions presented here can be implemented within the current infrastructure of the guild. Only the programers know what this system is capable of. Updated: This include if available manpower can handle the extra workload !!

Two : Except where noted none of the scenarios presented here represent any specific events that have happened here on the guild !!!

Now to the meat of the matter :)
Currently the system allows “1 vote for every 5 participants”. Winner takes all.
As was stated in Gamerprinter’s post under Mapping Challenges Rules on01-25-2009 “There are enough voters, usually, so that the fact you don't vote for yourself, won't affect voting, as the best maps always gets the most votes.
In other words, voting is seldom very close - the winner usually has a large margin ahead of second place. Though that's not always true.”

Now while voting sometimes bears out this fact often The next closest to the best entry doesn’t get fair recognition and the remaining contestants are fighting for a second or third place that doesn’t exist !

Scenario One : This one actually happened last spring. It was a light contest I entered . There was a total of four legitimate entries. I say legitimate because I believe there was a couple of dropouts. Four contestants = one vote. I am not disputing the winner in any way ! Diamond’s entry was excellent! Due in part to the system He garnered all the votes ,except a single Charity vote given to the remaining three contestants. Yes He deserved to win but I put a lot of effort into my entry and Yes I got some REP. From people who didn’t vote for me but I thought a second place or third might have been nice. I am sure others have thought that. The current system doesn’t allow for this.

Scenario Two: Hypothetical ! A contest has 7 contestants which equals 2 votes per voter. Lets label these contestants by the overall quality of their entries. Scale 1-10 . We have four firmly at 5. Basically good entries but something is lacking. We have one at a 6 slightly better for whatever reason. We have one 8 and one 10 .
So we get two votes. We like Mr. Ten’s entry so of course we cast our first vote for him. We also like Mz. Eight’s entry also so we cast our second vote for her. However by voting that way we have effectively negated both of our votes. We have simply advanced them both ahead of
contestants 6 ,5 and the fours but 10 and 8 remain in the same positions in respect to each other . So the only way to really show your appreciation of Mr. 10's work is not to cast the second vote at all. But then you short change Mz. 8. So in the end 10 wins the rest all lose . 8,6,5,and the 4es all get some rep and a few votes but 10 gets the compass.

Now my SUGGESTION is this (IF POSSIBLE) : Voting Olympic style :
Gold Compass ,Silver Compass, Bronze Compass.
For the Lite contest Gold Shield , Silver Shield, Bronze Shield .

Statistical Math isn’t one of my strong points. But if the Gold vote was worth 3 or 4 points ,the Silver vote were worth 2 points and the Bronze vote worth 1 point. You could effectively show your appreciation for Mr 10's work while still giving Mz. 8 due credit for her almost as good entry. Total up all the points in the end and Mr. 10 still gets the Golden Compass but the others get a chance to walk away with the Silver or Bronze. I think this would promote more participation. It is intimidating going up against the caliber of talent present here in the Guild even in the Lite contest which was created to alleviate that !!
As a side note REP is nice but I got almost as much from the contest where I got a single Charity vote as the one I just won.
That’s my suggestion if possible. Now let’s open the polls to see If I am Totally off my NUT!! :PP

Ps. perhaps someone Knowledgeable can correct my spelling in the poll option 3. DOH !!!!

02-19-2012, 11:20 AM
Not sure really. It all sounds good and I like the idea of picking a gold, silver and bronze but if the maps are as cut and dry as you say then surely all this would do is mean the gap between first and last would be even greater? Or are you saying you would prefer someone to get 3 votes no matter how many entries there are to try and separate the group bringing up the rear? If so, why not just vote on every single map, putting them in order of preference? If that was possible then it would be compltely fair.

I have a feeling though that it might be a reduced amount of votes to facilitate casual voting. Someone with a spare few minutes can quickly vote on one or two maps but it might take some thinking to place all in order of preference. I know that isn't what you suggested but I would view that as the best system.

02-19-2012, 11:51 AM
Yes first and last would be more separated but those in the middle would be competing for the consolation prizes. It was more of a suggestion to give some recognition to those in the middle. There are always going to be some entries that will fall below the levels of the best. Voting for all the maps would I fear be more time invested than most voters would want to spend. Especially when there are alot of entries like this month. I was thinking go to the thumbnails This one is great IMO. This one next. and This one third. Those that impress some might not appeal to others. In the end the best will almost always rise to the top and some sink to the bottom. But there will be those that clump in the middle. I was not posting this is the best Idea but more to get some Brainstorming going for a alternate voting system IF anyone really wants something Different than that which is already in place. That is why Option 2: Maybe something something similar. All Ideas welcome :)

02-19-2012, 12:05 PM
On another site, when we have contests, the voting is Pick your top 5 in order of preference, cannot vote for yourself. 1st place is worth 5 pts, 2nd is worth 4 pts etc. It seems to work well. The top 3 contenders are usually fairly close in points, almost everyone gets some recognition.

02-19-2012, 12:51 PM
It would need to be something easily implemented. The last thing I believe we should do is add to the workload of the volunteers running this awesome site. As it is there is a bunch of set up and so on to run the challenges. It seems we have some folks on vacation lately as we've been running behind on starting our challenges and getting them voted on.

I too have seen it where one entry was just about perfect in every way and it sucked up almost every vote which it certainly deserved. However, the second place entry was very good and much better than anything you would find elsewhere on the net but it was practically forgotten. That does seem a tad improper. I have also seen it where second place was determined by a single vote. Ouch...minus one vote and slide into obscurity?

At the same time, I look at every piece I do as something to hopefully add to my portfolio, therefore, I try to look at the challenges as a bonus activity. Not everyone is trying to build a body of work so I can see how putting a bunch of time into "your masterpiece" and being blown out in the votes can be disheartening. In such cases it would be nice to have a runner up or silver/bronze award type thing.

I think it's a good discussion and maybe we can come up with something better. Yet I would also say if it's not a lot better it's probably not worth messing with.

02-20-2012, 04:20 PM
It would need to be something easily implemented. The last thing I believe we should do is add to the workload of the volunteers running this awesome site. As it is there is a bunch of set up and so on to run the challenges.

I agree totally . I don't know what it takes (time and effort) to run the challenges. However I do know how precious "SPARE" time is and I do know the support crew sacrifices a good chunk of theirs as they go about their business virtually UN-noticed and definitely under appreciated.

I think it's a good discussion and maybe we can come up with something better. Yet I would also say if it's not a lot better it's probably not worth messing with.
Yeah I'll go along with that also.

On another site, when we have contests, the voting is Pick your top 5 in order of preference

I think 5 votes might be a bit excessive around here. Alot of the voting is done by members who notice the voting is in progress and skim the thumbnails and do a "quick" pick of their favs. Similar principle though.

So if the poll shows the desire for an alternate system. I'll start a New post for submitting ideas for possible alternatives. Then if one gets picked . we can present it to the Support staff here and they will tell us if it is "possible" Software-wise and Workload-wise .Sounds fine to me !!

02-20-2012, 10:43 PM
It was enough work to pick my three votes in this month's lite challenge... if I have to rank them, too, I'll be much less likely to vote.

02-20-2012, 11:13 PM
To be honest, I sort of like it as it is.
The place to weigh your votes is in the mind of the voter. I have voted for a good entry over a great entry because the creator of the good piece was far less experienced than the creator of the great piece. I expect more from someone with five previous victories and weigh performance vs expectations.
I have actually voted for some of the ultimately least popular works because I admired their innovation (only discovered after voting).

I think that rdanhenry makes a good point. Too complex and voting becomes work.

Ultimately, a winners compass means more if only one is awarded. Rep IS the reward for being good, but not the best, in a challenge.