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Airith
04-05-2008, 01:14 AM
Well, I decided to use RobA's tutorial to quickly have something. Now my neighbors can start matching, or tell me what to change ;)

I have some of the area around my region as well, but that's just so that I can add some of their features as well (all cities are in my area though)

Someone please give me criticism, I think it's an ok start, but I definitely want to change it, everywhere, a lot.

Baziron
04-05-2008, 06:06 PM
Just a general thing: with that much rivers in the area (at least, it seems much to me), wouldn't it be more likely that there are more towns along the rivers?

Airith
04-05-2008, 10:58 PM
Just a general thing: with that much rivers in the area (at least, it seems much to me), wouldn't it be more likely that there are more towns along the rivers?

I used the rivers from the original map that NeonKnight provided, it's now in the World Pictures thread.

I was about to remove some towns, but I guess it is like 600 miles... There should be a lot more towns then. I used too small of a picture, maybe I should redo it... Or just add more towns?

The Cartographist
04-06-2008, 05:27 AM
Airith - I think that you need to up the size of your picture. And, yes, I believe that there would be more towns in a region that size. Unless, of course, there is a specific reason for there not to be.

Torq
04-06-2008, 05:52 AM
I dont think the number of towns should be determined exclusively by the size of the area. Bear in mind there are plague lands over the Northern mountains which may be a very good reason why the area could have become less populated. Another alternative is poverty and its effects which are often to cause people to migrate to urban centres resulting in urban sprawl and depopulation in rural areas. (This is something that happened in my own country in the 60s and 70s and is largely responsible for the depopulation of many areas.)

Airith, you may want have look at the rivers. At the moment they are slightly transparent and show the underlying land elevations. They may look better in the sens of standing out more, if you make them "flat" and independent of the land roughness. Another option is RobA's method of making a hidden layer with the rivers as black against a white background, then applying a gaussian blur to them. Then you use this layer as a bump map under your rivers. This creates the image of depressions through which the rivers run and can be very effective. Just an idea.

Torq

Baziron
04-06-2008, 06:13 AM
If he does abandon towns, then the map should feature at least some of those - most closer to the plaguelands.

And I simply thought that rivers, being both a water supply and a fast/safe way of travelling (not so fast going up), would make for ideal refugee locations.

Torq
04-06-2008, 06:15 AM
I agree Baziron. The rivers would seem to be the logical places for people to gather in that region. They might even be the lifeblood of its economy.

Torq

Airith
04-07-2008, 06:46 PM
Airith - I think that you need to up the size of your picture. And, yes, I believe that there would be more towns in a region that size. Unless, of course, there is a specific reason for there not to be.
I restarted with a 1400 sized one, so hopefully that's enough. I'm not quite sure how to do the scale, everyone's should be similar (I think?) but I can't grasp whether I'm putting a sprawling metropolis over a massive area, or just a city .

...
Airith, you may want have look at the rivers. At the moment they are slightly transparent and show the underlying land elevations. They may look better in the sens of standing out more, if you make them "flat" and independent of the land roughness. Another option is RobA's method of making a hidden layer with the rivers as black against a white background, then applying a gaussian blur to them. Then you use this layer as a bump map under your rivers. This creates the image of depressions through which the rivers run and can be very effective. Just an idea.

Torq

I got it from the tutorial, but I'm going to have a go and try to see if I can make it work by myself... Probably using what you just said though :X

Also, I was thinking that the North would be depopulated, but I might add a few abandoned or at least ruins, it is really near the plagueland center.

su_liam
04-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Hey, look on the bright side. All those abandoned towns, villages and cities are adventure magnets. Who knows what's living there now. And of course someone left a treasure.

There's a woman who rode a motorcycle through the area abandoned after Czernobyl. Well, maybe... but the pictures are interesting.

Airith
04-08-2008, 01:25 AM
"All those abandoned towns, villages and cities are adventure magnets. Who knows what's living there now. And of course someone left a treasure." - su_liam

Hmm, do you know where I can get some symbols for that? Mostly I just want some city symbols, but really I only have found one so far. That goes for anyone who knows where to get some city, or similar, symbols. PLEASE :o

RobA
04-08-2008, 03:13 AM
Hmm, do you know where I can get some symbols for that? Mostly I just want some city symbols, but really I only have found one so far. That goes for anyone who knows where to get some city, or similar, symbols. PLEASE :o

Have you checked out the symbol fonts in these threads:
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=346
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=743

-Rob A>

Airith
04-08-2008, 08:26 PM
Have you checked out the symbol fonts in these threads:
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=346
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=743

-Rob A>

Apparently they're all CC2 symbols, or just Profantasy related ones, and I cannot figure out how to use them? Since it does say free I'm guessing I just can't figure out this 'View' program :(

RobA
04-08-2008, 10:49 PM
AFAIK, most of them are ttf fonts (like wingdings). Just use them as text once installed into your system.

-Rob A>

Airith
04-08-2008, 10:59 PM
AFAIK, most of them are ttf fonts (like wingdings). Just use them as text once installed into your system.

-Rob A>

They're all .FSC files. Which is used by CC... But not the Viewer? I'm guessing I'll have to have that program to use them.

edit: I guess it's 'free' for CC2/3 users, which I guess I can respect. Now, any other symbols one might know about?

Airith
04-09-2008, 12:34 AM
I thought I'd finally post an update of my redo. I quite like it, although this lack of symbols is stalling me a lot. I like and dislike how the forests turned out, I decided to follow the dirt a bit, that's why it's so broken up, although I liked that. Just that some parts stick up and look like clay or something.

Does the southern mountains look different from the northern ones? (divided by Torenir) It's just something that's been irking me for a while.

I can't make the current text more readable because I'm missing some of it still, sorry.

edit: Also, how does one go about connecting rivers to oceans? Although I only have one spot, it was just a 'meeting.'
(Sorry about the double post)

Torq
04-09-2008, 05:31 PM
I think thats a great improvement Airith. Well done. Your progress is obvious and you seem to absorb new techniques and advice very quickly and effectively. Keep it up. I like the rivers and the settlements along them. I'm not sure about the rather heavy noise at the edges of the landforms. You may want to experiment with a bit more blur and a bit less noise.

Torq

NeonKnight
04-09-2008, 06:02 PM
I agree. I really like the look of what you have done so far. A thing of beauty it is.

ravells
04-09-2008, 06:13 PM
I thought I'd finally post an update of my redo. I quite like it, although this lack of symbols is stalling me a lot. I like and dislike how the forests turned out, I decided to follow the dirt a bit, that's why it's so broken up, although I liked that. Just that some parts stick up and look like clay or something.

Does the southern mountains look different from the northern ones? (divided by Torenir) It's just something that's been irking me for a while.

I can't make the current text more readable because I'm missing some of it still, sorry.

edit: Also, how does one go about connecting rivers to oceans? Although I only have one spot, it was just a 'meeting.'
(Sorry about the double post)

With the connecting rivers to oceans I either: use the eraser to make the rivers (with the oceans as an underlying layer to the land) - having your coast outline on a separate layer or saved as a selection is a must unless you're going to try and paint it like you were on canvas,

or

I put the rivers on another layer in the same colour as the oceans. This has the advantage of making the rivers more easily adjustable but the downside is that if you want to stroke the rivers with a black outline, you need to use the eraser to get rid of the black lines around the river mouth. (This is what I ended up doing with my map on this project)

Your river and ocean are different colours, so you need to think about what happens when they meet (or make them the same colour). You could use a low opacity brush to merge the colours, or reflect the shallowness of the water to make the ocean around the coast the same colour as the river and then make the hard distinction into the ocean further into the sea, so it looks like a bathyscape contour.

Midgardsormr
04-10-2008, 08:48 PM
They're all .FSC files. Which is used by CC... But not the Viewer? I'm guessing I'll have to have that program to use them.


Most of the catalogues in the first link are CC2/3 format, but the second link has several wingding fonts suitable for mapping. Start with this post: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showpost.php?p=8491&postcount=8

I've used symbols from a couple of the Wingding fonts that come with Windows on at least one map.

Airith
04-11-2008, 09:36 PM
I looked through almost all of them, and none of them really caught my eye. There were a few sites I didn't look over too well, but it was mostly it just wasn't the type I was looking for. (I'm picky :()

I was going to use the symbols from this link http://www.mapsandmore.com/maps/avarion.html that I found after LOTS of searching... I'd have to change the colors/scale and whatnot but it wouldn't fit with my current symbol though. Also I'm just guessing I'm allowed to use it because it's there and in .png Although that doesn't mean too much...

edit: I'm very jittery right now, forgot to eat and was working

Airith
04-16-2008, 02:41 AM
Here's an update. There's only really names left (and roads), but I'm sure one of you can find something that I've done wrong :)

I dropped the symbols, it didn't fit in with the rest of the map.

Avulsion
04-30-2008, 07:59 PM
We need scales on every map. This may be one of my pet peeves. A person can walk/hike about 20-25 miles in a day. I'm not totally sure, but I think your map is something like 300 miles across. So you would expect a 12 day journey to cross your map. Using a scale ( |----------| 50 miles ) can also help you understand how many settlements should be on your map, how wide your roads and rivers should be, and how large the map symbols might be scaled to.

Anyway, this is an amazing map. It just needs a scale, IMO.

Redrobes
04-30-2008, 08:12 PM
...but I think your map is something like 300 miles across.I think all the tiles are assumed to be 600miles though its a curved space so the top is shorter than the bottom.

Airith, do you want the tiles for this area here ?

Ok, I have them now but I thought your current map was just fine.

Avulsion
04-30-2008, 08:55 PM
600 miles? So more like a few weeks to cross the map. Thanks Redrobes.

Redrobes
04-30-2008, 09:21 PM
Yes, I too have been looking up travel rates and I get a lower figure than you. I am working on a person doing 12 miles per day as part of a merchant train. Looking at professional or very serious walkers they do up to 40 miles per day. A normal person is more like 18 on a good day so assuming that you have carts, mules, wagons maybe I think much less than 18. If the terrain is bad then it can easily half or maybe third that.

If an area has no monsters or much dangers then I would think that you would get little hamlets at about day intervals along a route. If there are dangers then this is very unlikely as a single house would be sacked.

The assumption on my area is that merchants only travel in larger groups. Maybe 30 or so but also have about 12 skilled henchmen. If the goods were more expensive then the ratio might be 1:1.

So that makes for expensive travel and as such goods carried great distances and over difficult or dangerous terrain are going to be that much more expensive than local produce. It might mean that certain goods are not worth taking. Heavy cheap stuff might be considered unprofitable. That for me is an issue as one thing my sector is short on is grain. Its probable that it would be milled first and brought in as flour at a minimum. I might introduce a flour tax to subsidize the merchant pricing for such a required item.

Avulsion
04-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Yes, I too have been looking up travel rates and I get a lower figure than you. I am working on a person doing 12 miles per day as part of a merchant train. Looking at professional or very serious walkers they do up to 40 miles per day. A normal person is more like 18 on a good day so assuming that you have carts, mules, wagons maybe I think much less than 18. If the terrain is bad then it can easily half or maybe third that.

If an area has no monsters or much dangers then I would think that you would get little hamlets at about day intervals along a route. If there are dangers then this is very unlikely as a single house would be sacked.


Yes! I think this needs to be read by everyone that is helping map. I can understand that including/excluding a scale is partly artistic license, but they are sure helpful to both mapmaker and reader.

Airith
04-30-2008, 11:13 PM
I hope it wasn't too much of a hassle to you, redrobes, I'm just thinking of redoing the map and wanted to see how much I'd need to change.

I added some scale I just messed around with for a while, just to say I have one. Other then that, some minor tweaks and the major city names. I still have to do roads though...

### Latest WIP ###

ravells
05-01-2008, 08:56 AM
Yes, I too have been looking up travel rates and I get a lower figure than you. I am working on a person doing 12 miles per day as part of a merchant train. Looking at professional or very serious walkers they do up to 40 miles per day. A normal person is more like 18 on a good day so assuming that you have carts, mules, wagons maybe I think much less than 18. If the terrain is bad then it can easily half or maybe third that.



Speaking from personal experience in walking the Ridgeway in Wiltshire, it took two of us travelling light, 8 hours to walk about 24 miles from Avebury to the Wayland Smithy - it's a lovely walk and highly recommended - but we were pretty exhausted by the end of it. I think something like 15 miles a day would be more do-able. But then we are unfit towny types and not strapping adventurers!

Redrobes
05-01-2008, 09:23 AM
Its better to take people who travel very long distances and divide it by the number of days they did it over. The problem of one days trek is that it does not account for continuous tiredness and changes in weather. You might lose a few days due to torrential rains or other similar factors. I have no idea how having a caravan of stuff like mules and carts affect the rate tho.
Tis a lovely area that. The vale of Pewsey and Alton Barnes is real spectacular.

Airith
06-12-2008, 07:30 PM
I'm still alive! Here's the final version of the map. It's finally done. I don't like some of my roads that much though. Well... I still need to name it... No luck there yet. Oh and thanks to Torq for doing one of my cities :D

alucard339
06-15-2008, 11:17 PM
I like your map in general, especially your plains & mountains, and the font you used for the names (???).

I agree with you that your road look funny or fishy: they look more like country border then road. Maybe try doing them larger and browner and give them a little bit of effect (either shadow or emboss or ...).

I don't really like your forest; they seem to be missing something (I can't tell you since I don't like mine either :?). Maybe put some shade effect on them, cause they look too similar and perfect.


Take care,

Alu.

delgondahntelius
07-04-2008, 05:50 PM
So... you have just one river coming through Mythkhardia then.... oh..wait..that's two.. is that one .. coming or going?? lol :D

Steel General
07-05-2008, 03:09 PM
Well... I still need to name it... No luck there yet.

Well, I am gonna guess that it's all one nation/empire/political entity. So if your capital is "Kir' Thaen" maybe the region should be named something similar?

Airith
07-06-2008, 08:38 PM
I like your map in general, especially your plains & mountains, and the font you used for the names (???).

I agree with you that your road look funny or fishy: they look more like country border then road. Maybe try doing them larger and browner and give them a little bit of effect (either shadow or emboss or ...).

I don't really like your forest; they seem to be missing something (I can't tell you since I don't like mine either :?). Maybe put some shade effect on them, cause they look too similar and perfect.

American-Uncial-Normal and Valhalla (font). The Plaguelands/Gravehelm ones I can't remember though. I'll probably just keep the roads, touch them up in the future maybe. Ya, the forests were definitely the hardest part, using Roba's tutorial, I had to mess around so it wasn't just green mountains. Again maybe in the future :P

So... you have just one river coming through Mythkhardia then.... oh..wait..that's two.. is that one .. coming or going?? lol :D
The North two come together I think. All of the rivers on my map are from NK's ft generated thing or something. I can change it if you'd like though. The south one is flowing west. North one goes east.

Well, I am gonna guess that it's all one nation/empire/political entity. So if your capital is "Kir' Thaen" maybe the region should be named something similar?
I was thinking a description over an actual name, the three houses (Tor, Kor, and Tir) were the riverlands rulers for hundreds of years before the Vetaran came and established Kir'Thaen and began overtaking the lands. (I hope this is ok with Venardhi) I guess I should just ask people for suggestions, I still haven't came up with a name yet.

Airith
07-22-2008, 07:12 PM
Hate to double post, but I'd like some help coming up with a name. I was thinking that since rivers are a big part of the map, that I would name it around them. Either 'something' riverlands, or the 'something' salt marshes (term I found: 'The land is divided by large number of marshes and rivers.' <-- I got this from the AoE2:exp description, and would like to know if this is correct, I did some research into it, but I don't know).

I've got about a page, I think, of lore written out here, but I need to go over it a few thousand times to see if I really like it xD

edit: Can someone change the title to [Region 1][Map 20] Riverlands, I hate the word unknown in there xD

Steel General
07-22-2008, 09:51 PM
Either 'something' riverlands, or the 'something' salt marshes

I think either of those would work, now for the first part... Here are a list of some names I had used on some old paper maps; take one if you like any of them;

Estonar, Avenor, Vhenlar, Omiroth, Rhazauul, Cularien, Elryz, Tayjan, Tuurgaar, Skabskrath, Urgok, Kurth, Ezellhar, Vinyamar, Karthak

Airith
07-24-2008, 06:52 PM
Riverlands will have to do for now (could someone please change that? post#35). Here's some info, don't know how to put it in the cwbp though:

Denizens
The people who dwell in the <area>Riverlands are not collectively termed as one people. Rather, depending on which royal house you descend from, dictates you are Korcor, Torren, or Tiric. An individual would be a Korc, Torrn, or Tirj. The people of the <area>Riverlands are a mostly human people, and, other than the rumors of Dwarven blood flowing in the veins of the Torren people, the variation is quite lacking. A large clan of Orcs, living south of Tirylus, seems to live only to plague the southwestern border. It is generally expected among the denizens of the <area>Riverlands to ignore other cultures outside of the <area>Riverlands. Although anyone is allowed to pass through, the neighbors (mostly to the west) are some dots on a foreigners map.
Fluff
Hoslahant – An alarming, possibly tamable, animal, that seems to be a cross between a destrier and an undersized elephant.
Current Capital
The city of Kir'Thaen, [cur thay-n] is situated upon the shores of the northern side of <place>peninsula, and the island just north of it. Created, by the Vetaran, to oversee the <area>Riverlands, it included one letter of each royal house’s names. Immediate dislike for this convention arose, as each royal house wanted it to be named after them. This was settled by the then Governor’s decision to not care. Although assassinated after this decision, many call it a mere coincidence. Now a splendid port city; many cultures, religions, and people mingle everyday beneath its walls, and above its piers.
Significant Settlements
Torathael [tor-ay-thay-le] is currently the largest city of the <area>Riverlands, and the biggest internal trading centre.
This marker once stood for the only known Dwarven settlement, and used to be the human’s access to Dwarven goods. Nowadays, it is considered a ghost town, for no word has escaped from the mountain reaches since the plague erupted far to the north. The current rumors, give the place its name: “An out-of-the-way village far north of Tiratheis, had a guest. Covered in strange wounds, half-made bandages, and a stained dagger grasped in his hand, he crawled to the town well and collapsed. The villagers could not glean anything from his mad ramblings, but his howls while he fitfully slept told all: ‘Hold them back! Lest this be known as Gravehelm!’
Trade
Nearly all trading, whether importing, exporting, or just between themselves, is done on the <river>river. Usually shipped from there by foreign fleets.

edit: Anyone think this would be any good for replacing my forests? I've finally decided to replace 'em.

industrygothica
07-25-2008, 03:16 AM
Denizens
A large band of Gnolls, living south of Tirylus, seem to live only to plague the southwestern border. It is generally expected among the denizens of the <area>Riverlands to ignore other cultures outside of the <area>Riverlands. Although anyone is allowed to pass through, the neighbors (mostly to the west) are some dots on a foreigners map.


Might want to change that to orcs, as that's who currently has control of the Bloodspires to the south of you. Their ongoing war with the goblinoids, and possibly other savage races, may occasionally spill over into your area, but will probably be contained mainly in Qwinyon Shai and west through Griznog's Pass.

The gnolls are a bit farther south in my map in the Laughing Hills. Unless, of course, you want gnolls in your area on top of all that, in which case you can toss everything I just said. ;)

Steel General
07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
edit: Anyone think this would be any good for replacing my forests? I've finally decided to replace 'em.

I think they look really good, better than any I've mangled (err manged) so far. How did you create them?

jfrazierjr
07-25-2008, 10:39 AM
edit: Anyone think this would be any good for replacing my forests? I've finally decided to replace 'em.

Looks pretty good, if a bit fuzzy for my tastes. Looks like you have a bit to much spread going on. Perhaps just a 1-2 px G Blur? You might even want to think about "trying" a bump map on a grey layer set to overlay after the blur. This might get the color variations to create more of a sculpted feel without going overboard...

Ascension
07-25-2008, 05:15 PM
Overall I like the forest, it looks like it was based on a pine forest (kinda triangular shaped trees) but it looks like some of em are upside down on the top half of this section...could just be me tho...but as I said, overall, I dig em.

Midgardsormr
07-25-2008, 07:31 PM
I think it looks very nice in the thumbnail and reduced size in my browser, but not so good at full resolution. So if you simply shrink it before applying it to the map, it'll be perfect.

Airith
07-31-2008, 04:19 PM
Might want to change that to orcs...
Done :P

I think they look really good, better than any I've mangled (err manged) so far. How did you create them?
That will require me to know how I created them. Yeah I pretty much have like 8 layers that aren't even being used in there... Will go check. Ok I think I've remembered most of it, just took a tree brush, made the general shape of my image (with jitter/spacing), left some blank spots as well. Then blurred and noise spread. Rendered plasma desaturated and overlayed. Changed the brightness/contrast a bit. Rendered noise overlayed. I also played with the colors of the tree layer to get the green I wanted. Bump mapped the noise and plasma (gray+overlay) and then bump mapped the trees (max depth/elevation). More playing with contrast/brightness/colors.

Overall I like the forest, it looks like it was based on a pine forest (kinda triangular shaped trees) but it looks like some of em are upside down on the top half of this section...could just be me tho...but as I said, overall, I dig em.
Winner! That is how I made them, but since it's not an angle view, I wanted it to look more rounder, guess it didn't work on you...

Ok, I redid what I remembered, and couldn't actually remember the entire process. So... Here's a new one :( I think I like the first one better. edit: Also added the old image+the suggestions, but I can't make it again so I don't know why

Ascension
07-31-2008, 06:07 PM
The newer version looks better, to me at least...less...angular is what I'm thinking. The original style would be cool for a realistic style ISO map, which is a cool idea too...hrmmmm. But this new one looks better in that it seems, I dunno, more functional. Anywho, good job.

Airith
10-25-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm only going to come up with more names if someone wants to map one of the remaining dots, or they could even come up with their own. Added the new forest, I think I like it. Tried naming the rivers, didn't turn out too well though. Started to think that it looks too cluttered, but hopefully it isn't too bad either.

Ascension
10-26-2008, 11:03 AM
I think it looks pretty good but if you think it looks cluttered then reduce the font size and see what you think.