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anstett
03-30-2012, 04:44 PM
I was reading on another site about how some people think they cannot make a map worthy of someone paying for it.

I am here to prove you wrong.

I have two maps I need for my game, combined time will likely be under an hour for anyone with basic skills.

Map #1 -

This is what I was able to do:

http://www.dragonslayers-society.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.VilmarEstates

I want to have someone use the original PDF file and erase that line down the middle better than I can/did (no really I did try to clean it up)

The second map is taking the nine buildings from another PDF product and shifting them around onto a new map.

In their current incarnation they all fit nicely into a rectangular piece of paper. I want the village to be more organic, still clustered around each other but not looking like it all fits on one sheet of paper.

I own both PDF products in question and will email you the files to use. I will be using these in my personal game and they are copyrighted works so the artist will be able to show their work in a portfolio perhaps but not use it in other places.

The time frame for this project is very flexible. I need the first map in two weeks and the second map in a month or so. I do think that any competent artist will be able to do a much better job than I can in an hour or two most likely.

In exchange for your help on this project I will pay $20, enough for pizza and a cheap bottle of wine.

Deal?

OH and one other thing. I do respect the very fine artists we have here on the site, but I would like this job to go to one of the lesser known members so they get a chance to shine and put that mark on their resume of "professional freelance artist"

If you never thought you could make a map and sell it here on the Guild, here is your chance.

BOB

jfrazierjr
03-30-2012, 05:36 PM
By own, you mean you created the original artwork yourself that was then consolidated into the products which you then sell to others vs you purchased the products from a third party. Just wanted to clarify... The former is almost surely fine, while the latter is almost surely not....

anstett
03-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Thanks for the question.

Yes these are products that I purchased from a publisher. ( www.0onegames.com to be precise )

This is for my own personal use not for sale to anyone or for anyone else to use. This commission is only for assistance in making these maps more playable for my own game.

BOB

jfrazierjr
03-30-2012, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the question.

Yes these are products that I purchased from a publisher. ( www.0onegames.com to be precise )

This is for my own personal use not for sale to anyone or for anyone else to use. This commission is only for assistance in making these maps more playable for my own game.

BOB


Ok, so technically, this is not legal in most countries without permission from the copyright owner. Fair use would likely be allowed for recreation as an original piece of art, but not modification of the original artwork. Also, to be legally compliant(again assume you don't have permission from the publisher), you would actually need to make a separate purchase to provide to someone else to view and re-do the art work.

anstett
03-30-2012, 06:39 PM
Good conversation about rights and what is right.

Yes I agree that it would be wrong of me to simply email someone else a full PDF of the work I paid for for them to manipulate and then be able to keep. That is not what I am intending to do.

I will disagree that it is not fair use for what I want to do. Fair use allows me to use the product for my own personal use in my game as I see fit. It does not allow me to use pieces of prior art, rotate 90 degrees and then re-distribute that work. Fair use does allow me to take that work, cut the church out and move it to the right to break up the alignment of buildings to fit the arbitrary paper size that the publisher needed to work with. That allows me to use the product in my own game. If I do that myself it is perfectly fine.

I think the only real potential quibble here is hiring someone else to do it for me. In its most strict sense copyright does not allow that to happen. The rights holder of the work is the only one who can further bestow those rights. By my purchase I have been given the right to printing for personal use. Do I have the right to pay someone else to print it for me? I think that is too minor of a point to concern 99.9% of the rights holders out there.

I really do like this publisher and have shared versions of their maps in use in my VTT with them and posted on various boards to highlight how useful products like theirs are.

jfrazierjr
03-30-2012, 09:11 PM
Yea... sorry if I my reply sounded umm... confrontational, it was more of a gentle warning since your in the the grey area. From a technical perspective, I do however disagree with:


Fair use does allow me to take that work, cut the church out and move it to the right to break up the alignment of buildings to fit the arbitrary paper size that the publisher needed to work with. That allows me to use the product in my own game. If I do that myself it is perfectly fine. Fair use generally does not give someone to right to modify anyone else's artistic work with express consent, even cropping for example. Ultimately, it's un-enforcable for you to do it yourself assuming you don't republish your "changes" somewhere but technically, it's far more likely to be a copyright violation rather than not.

However, it's far easier to justify fair use by having someone (or yourself) else re-imaging the work as opposed to modifying the original in any way.

anstett
03-30-2012, 09:14 PM
Oh no worries, I did not think confrontational, just a good healthy discussion on the topic. :)

It is good for everyone to hear these things, to help avoid any confusion on anyone's part.

And good to see how the issue can be complicated.

BOB

Master01
03-31-2012, 05:43 AM
Good Day everyone,
First off, thanks for the interest in 0one Games cartography. Now to the question.

You are allowed to use our purchased product for your own games and to modifiy it for your own personal use. That includes paying someone to do the job for you. I would mark the fact that none of the 0one Games produts are protected in any way (no watermarks or DRM), allowing you to modify them as you please for your own games. Our take on the piracy is that we are a small Publisher, and rely on the support of our customers.

Conversely, you are not allowed to re-publish or resell our work in any way ( and that includes the image you published as an example here http://www.dragonslayers-society.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.VilmarEstates) so please, when you have a chance, remove it.

I hope that this clarify things, and if you have more questions please do not hesitate to contact me.


------------------
Mario Barbati
www.0onegames.com

Schwarzkreuz
04-01-2012, 05:58 AM
This turned out to be realy complicated Pizza.

Redrobes
04-01-2012, 07:30 AM
Well complications seem to be over now. From the guilds point of view, it seems that this can still be a live map request and for $20 someone can modify the image and email it back to anstett for his own use.

anstett
04-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Thank you very much for chiming in on the discussion Mario.

I have had a link on my resources page to 0onegame for many years and talked about your products because I do value their usability and quality. I have used your products as examples for others to emulate when discussing how to publish their own maps.

I have removed the image from the site as requested.

Still hoping to have someone pick up this job as a chance to show they can be a paid artist.

BOB

jfrazierjr
04-01-2012, 08:09 PM
Wow... its rather great that the publisher is fairly open to things like this and posted directly here. Anstett, did you happen to invite him here to chime in or was he made aware in another way?

In any event, I am glad you were able to get to a point of knowing exactly what was an was not acceptable(and without being sued to get there!!!!). I hope you find some one to take on the work. If it were someone more my style, I would offer up, but...well cities are not my thing(not that there is much I could claim "is my thing"...lol)

anstett
04-01-2012, 08:43 PM
I did not ask him to reply here but I do intend to send him an email thanking him in private and asking if there is an accommodation we can come to so I can show his work on my game's site again. I do think they make very good products and want them to succeed at a company. Mario is a very nice guy from my few interactions with him.

This project is not a city by any stretch of the imagination. It is only 9 buildings that currently all fit into a neat simple rectangle. I only want to spread the buildings out to make the town more organic. The only thing on the map will be the rooftops.

The product I am using has detailed floor plans of each of the buildings. The other (now taken down upon request) citadel also is a room by room map product that I purchased from 0onegames. I am using four of their maps in the current Blood Trail Era in my game, one for each of the story arcs.

I am glad we can have this discussion here on the Guild so that all artists can see the complications that can arise and how they can be dealt with to everyone's satisfaction.

BOB

m.s.jackson
04-02-2012, 12:28 PM
Bob, did you get someone to take a stab at this? If you have a moment, you can take a look at my blog (msjx.org (http://www.msjx.org/)) you can see the style I use. If this seems like a style you like, I can take a stab at this map for you. There are a few town/city maps on the blog as well.

anstett
04-02-2012, 12:40 PM
And SOLD to Ms Jackson

That style will work very well with the interior maps of the buildings.

PM me your prefered email address and I will send you the details.

BOB

moderator can please mark this as taken

anstett
04-02-2012, 12:41 PM
And as a secondary reply, I did reach an agreement with Mario from 0onegames to allow me to post the image I had on my site earlier with a minor revision and proper links to purchase for those interested.

Again to everyone thank you for participating in the discussion, I hope it was helpful to everyone.

BOB

Jaxilon
04-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Although it may not matter to the final outcome I think it's M.S.Jackson judging by the avatar instead of Ms. Jackson :)

m.s.jackson
04-02-2012, 12:53 PM
LOL Yeah, no worries. ;)

Gidde
04-02-2012, 12:55 PM
Ha! I'm not the only one who gets mistaken for the wrong gender! YAY :)