PDA

View Full Version : [Award Winner] Eriond - A Tutorial for GIMP & Wilbur



arsheesh
04-07-2012, 08:50 AM
Some time ago I promised to create a Tutorial for my world map of Eriond (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?15819-Eriiond-The-Age-of-Legends&highlight=Eriond). But hadn't gotten very far along in the process when my PhD began and life became a whirlwind. Now it's spring break and I've finally had an opportunity to return to this project. About the tutorial, as advertised, this is a tutorial for GIMP and Wilbur that walks you through how to make a photo-realistic map similar to that of the one shown below.

A word of caution. This is an Intermediate/Advanced skill level tutorial. The techniques used in this walk through are difficult, and I assume that the reader already has both a working knowledge of GIMP and a rudimentary knowledge of map creation. Also, one tutorial that is really helpful to read as a companion to this one is Notsonoble's GIMP Gradient Tool Basics (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?7875) (EDIT: this tutorial has temporarily gone missing, until it is found, please use this tutorial (http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/gimptutorials/ss/Gradient-Editor.htm) instead), since my tutorial assumes a working knowledge of gradients. Finally, I have uploaded a set of gradients that I use within the tutorial. I recommend downloading and installing these before beginning. That said, I hope this is useful to some of you (EDIT: I found several small mistakes in the original tutorial so I have uploaded a corrected version).

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

LonewandererD
04-07-2012, 09:38 AM
Really like the effect, especially on the mountains, any chance someone can get a Photoshop translation on this?

-D-

Gidde
04-07-2012, 10:05 AM
I'll totally be checking this out, that looks great! Thanks for posting!

AMichael
04-07-2012, 11:38 AM
I can't wait! This is exactly what I've been looking for.

Boundary Layer
04-07-2012, 04:09 PM
I don't usually post here (in fact, this is my first), I'm more of a lurker just looking for inspiration - but I cannot resist the urge to break the silence and say thank-you for this.

I'm just getting (back) into map making, and this is exactly the help that I need. In the 2 hours or so I've spent working my way through this tutorial on a test piece I've got a much more professional looking map than I ever dreamed I could make. I just need to spend more time blending the mountains into the rest of the terrain before heading into Wilbur (I got anxious).

I'm certainly not an intermediate or advanced GIMP user, but I was still able to follow along. So, to others who are novices with GIMP, no need to be discouraged by the warning in first post - give it a try, and if you get stuck, Google can help.

arsheesh
04-07-2012, 04:35 PM
@LonewandererD - I wish I had Photoshop and knew how to use it. If I did I'd have written this tutorial for PS as well. However, aside from the kind cloud patterns that I am using to generate the height map, I'm pretty sure that the rest of the steps in this tutorial are easily translatable into PS, and of course the instructions on Wilbur will be the same regardless.

@Gidde, AMichael and Boundary Layer - Thanks for posting. Please feel free to let me know if you come across any problem areas in the Tutorial (e.g. areas lacking in clarity).

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Boundary Layer
04-08-2012, 09:34 AM
Arsheesh,

I got lost between unifying the oceans and bump mapping the height map.
The 'Land Bumps' layer is referred to in the Unifying the Oceans section, but is not actually created until the following section. So, it was unclear on the first read of Unifying the Oceans which layer should be merged onto 'Temperate'. And in Bump Mapping the Height Map it wasn't exactly clear what you meant in the first line when you refer to the 'Color Map'.
I think I understood your intent though.

Test Piece:
43845
I'll have to spend more time blending the mountains in and getting a river mask that works on future maps. I was rushing to get to something that looked finished, so I used a big brush with high opacity to blend the mountains. The strokes are still visible in some places.

arsheesh
04-08-2012, 04:43 PM
Hi Boundary Layer,

Thanks so much for letting me know about this. "Color Map" was an earlier reference for "Temperate" in the tutorial, but I went ahead and changed it later on and must have missed this one. Also, the reference to "Bump Map" in the Unifying the Oceans section should have been a reference to "WHM Copy", so this was a typo as well. I've gone ahead and corrected this and uploaded a new corrected pdf to this page.

As to your WIP, the colors look good, but I can't make out the "bump map" detail on the mountains. Did you have the "Land Bumps" and "Mt Bumps" layers hidden when you uploaded the image?

Boundary Layer
04-09-2012, 01:58 AM
As to your WIP, the colors look good, but I can't make out the "bump map" detail on the mountains. Did you have the "Land Bumps" and "Mt Bumps" layers hidden when you uploaded the image?

Oops, you're right. I didn't notice that. New WIP, better example:
43866

Anyways, I don't mean to thread-jack by posting a bunch of my own images. If I post more in the future I'll do so in a separate thread.
Thanks again.

Beaumains
04-09-2012, 01:02 PM
This will probably help me out a lot; thanks Arsheesh!

arsheesh
04-09-2012, 02:58 PM
@ Boundary Layer, that's looking better! I like the overall shape allot more, and your sculpting work has really paid off: the mountains blend into their surroundings naturally.

@ Beaumains, thanks, I hope that is of use to you.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

ZacheryGangrel
04-13-2012, 02:22 PM
I had fun making this and definitely had fun learning a new style. I used an older map of mine as a base, I didn't put as much work into the mountains as I would like, So I will likely go back and redo them.

I only had 1 issue, for some reason no matter what I did, the blur filter did not work on my Land Glow layer. It showed the blurring in the preview window, but whenever I applied it, there was no blur to be seen. So there is no shallow waters to be found here :P

arsheesh
04-14-2012, 12:45 AM
Thanks for the feedback Zach. I'm not sure what the deal with the blur was. Unless of course you had the land or seal selected when you applied the blur: the selection will prevent the blur from affecting the area outside of the selection. Your mountains look pretty good (though I might add a bit more airbrushing to the land clouds layer at the base of the mountains to help them blend just a bit more. I'm not sure if it's just the resolution or not, but I couldn't quite make out the other bump-map details. Otherwise, looks good.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

TregMallin
05-08-2012, 08:15 AM
Thanks for this tutorial, Arsheesh. I look forward to working through it this week.

The GIMP Gradient Basics tutorial that you mentioned above is missing now.

arsheesh
05-08-2012, 08:24 PM
Huh, now that's strange. I tried doing an advanced search for this thread and couldn't find it. I then did a search for the tutorial using Google and found a link to the tutorial (as posted here at the Guild), but when I clicked on the link it took me to a "No Thread Specified" error page. So I'm not sure what to make of it. Either the tutorial some how got deleted or it's been misplaced. I've written a note to the admins about it so hopefully someone knows what the deal is. If not, perhaps I'll either expand the tutorial to include the bit about Gradients, or I'll create a separate tutorial covering this info. Unfortunately I haven't the time to do either at the moment, so hopefully the tutorial gets found.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

libraryian
05-08-2012, 11:58 PM
I can't seem to be able to open the my map in Wilbur as there is no option for a .xcf file. Am I suppose to export the flattened image file as a .bmp or .jpg, or other format? Otherwise, everything has worked great so far, I'll admit that you were right on the "there will be tears" section of the airbrushing the mountains. It took me forever to actually see any results.

arsheesh
05-09-2012, 12:25 AM
Hi there libraryian, yes, you are correct. You need to save the flattened version of your height map as a .jpg rather than an .xcf. I guess I forgot to mention this in the tutorial. I will have to correct that. Glad to here that despite the tears, the tutorial is working well for you so far. If you do come across any other problem areas in the tutorial though feel free to let me know.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

arsheesh
05-09-2012, 05:56 PM
@Tregmallin Apparently Notsonoble's tutorial on Gradient Tool Basics has gone missing (some of the admins here can't even seem to find it), however I have found a tutorial on About.com that goes over the same concepts. You can find it here (http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/gimptutorials/ss/Gradient-Editor.htm). Hope that helps.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

TregMallin
05-09-2012, 08:04 PM
@arsheesh That looks like just the ticket.

FlyingIcarus
05-10-2012, 09:25 PM
I love this to death. Thanks for making this, it looks great, even for a newbie like me.

dlaporte7271
05-19-2012, 07:35 PM
Hey Arsheesh...using your tut to try and make my world map...getting stuck on the copy/paste from mountain cloud layer to mountain layers....cant seem to get anything to actually paste to a layer...The free select/copy/paste aught to be intuitive...but apparently I'm doing something wrong...or it works differently in GIMP. Suggestions?

Dave

arsheesh
05-19-2012, 07:58 PM
Hm, well without knowing a bit more I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. However, if the problem is that, after creating a free selection, you attempt to copy and then paste a mountain selection from the Mountain Clouds layer into the Mountains 1 or 2 layer, and you don't end up getting any pasted layer appearing at all, then the problem may be that when you clicked on copy the layer you were copying from was not the Mountain clouds layer, but rather from some other (possibly blank) layer. I make that mistake allot. Going back and forth from the Mountain Clouds to the Mountains 1 and 2 layers I sometimes find that the layer I ended up copying from was either Mountains 1 or 2 (which transparent) rather than my Mountain clouds layer. So when I go to paste the layer on my Mountains 1 or 2 layers, nothing shows up. So this might be the problem for you as well. If not, would you mind providing a bit more detail and/or providing a screenshot to work with.

EDIT: another thought occurred to me. If the problem isn't that nothing is showing up, but rather that the pasted layer does end up showing up, but as a "Floating Selection" rather than an element pasted directly onto the Mountains 1 or 2 layers, and you want to know how to merge the floating selection onto the Mountains 1 or 2 layers, then you just have to hit that little Anchor symbol (Anchor the Floating Layer) at the bottom of the layers dialogue (see attached image). However, make sure you make the necessary modifications to the selection (e.g. rotate and/or resize it) before anchoring it.

44935

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

dlaporte7271
05-19-2012, 08:02 PM
Wow...quick reply! I'll try again and see if I can give you some more specifics...

dlaporte7271
05-19-2012, 09:36 PM
what's the point of the anchor? Why the additional step? Why not just make 'paste' add the selected image where you want it?...anyway...I did something else that worked...but maybe it's not working as it should...I make the selection with the free select tool...right click, edit, copy...the selection appears in the little clipboard on the lower right. I think I can still manipulate/resize/rotate the selection...but I end up choosing the brush tool and then selecting my new brush and plopping it down that way. Does that do what I need it to do or am I unwittingly doing something I shouldn't?

dlaporte

arsheesh
05-19-2012, 09:58 PM
Funny, I just replied with an explanation of this to your WIP thread. However, for the benefit of anyone else who may be having the same questions/issues, I'll reply here as well. While the "Floating Selection" is a bit odd at first, it is actually a nice feature, because it allows you to manipulate the floating selection as much as you like before anchoring it to the layer you pasted it too. So, a step by step walk through of the process of copying and pasting selections from one layer to another layer in GIMP would be as follows:

1. Make the layer you want to copy from the active layer (click on that layer);
2. Use your Free Select tool to create a selection of the desired area;
3. Right click on the image and go to: Edit > Copy;
4. Make the layer you want to paste to the active layer;
5. Right click on the image and go to: Edit > Paste (this will create a "Floating Selection: Pasted Layer" above that layer);
6. Manipulate the pasted layer if you so desire (e.g. rotate it, resize it etc);
7. In the Layers Dialogue, click on "Anchor Floating Selection".

That should do it. As to the method you suggest, that works as well, though it will create a "Dropped Buffer" layer each time you to this, and you will eventually want to merged these all down into the appropriate Mountain 1 and Mountain 2 layers, so I guess in the end, either method works.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

vorropohaiah
05-26-2012, 01:49 AM
i love the use of difference clouds to create the mountains. I'll have to try that.

Never used wilbur though; i wonder if i can get the same effect done with PS?

arsheesh
05-26-2012, 02:07 AM
You definitely should be able to achieve the same, or at least a similar effects with PS. The clouds might be slightly different, I don't know, you might need to experiemt arround a bit to find what settings work best in PS.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

AlphaOmega
06-04-2012, 04:12 PM
is there any wilbur equivalent for Mac OS X? It sucks seeing this awesome tutorial and finding out I can't use it :p

arsheesh
06-04-2012, 05:08 PM
Hi there AlphaOmega. I didn't realize that the current Wilbur release wasn't supported by Mac OS X. This seems like a question better suited to Waldronate (http://www.cartographersguild.com/member.php?746-waldronate), the developer of Wilbur. I'm not sure if older releases are supported by Mac or not, but he would know. If not, I'm afraid I don't know what a substitute would be. Try leaving Waldronate a message and see what he says.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

AlphaOmega
06-05-2012, 02:30 AM
Thank you very much, I shall drop him a line as soon as I have enough posts to. :p Also, I found something called Wilma, and it's supposed to be the Mac's equivalent to Wilbur, but I don't really see a lot of information on it.

Morgan_R
06-21-2012, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the tutorial, it was really helpful! Here's my result:
45866

arsheesh
06-21-2012, 05:37 PM
That turned out fairly well Morgan. You managed to blend the mountains fairly well (which is one of the tougher bits). My only bit of corrective feedback would be that the map looks just a bit hazy, as if a Gaussian blur had been applied to it. Also, there isn't a whole lot of texture on the mountain areas. I'm not quite sure why this is, and so I don't know quite what to recommend to fix these issues. That said, even with these little faults I think it turned out pretty well. Great job.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Bill B.
06-22-2012, 12:49 AM
I'm glad, myself, to see Morgan's post. I printed out the tutorial a few weeks ago and tried...and failed to produce any kind of map. My map at one brief point looked something like a map but when I did the next step I lost it, ending up with what seemed to be just the bump map. Seeing Morgan's work reassures me the problem has to be between the keyboard and the chair (as expected!). :P I'm planning to try again soon. Each try teaches me more, so I'm already learning tricks even if I'm not yet getting what I'm trying for. :)

That said, I'd be interested in finding out if it was indeed a Gaussian blur that was the issue. To me, it looks great but a little bit as if looking down on it through a very thin layer of clouds. Kinda cool, I think.

Bill B.

arsheesh
06-22-2012, 06:56 AM
Welcome to the Guild Bill. You picked one of the more difficult tutorials to learn with, so don't feel too discouraged. But if you post up a WIP of your map and the step(s) you are having trouble with I can try to offer advice where I can.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Bill B.
06-22-2012, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the welcome, Arsheesh.

I had noticed it was mentioned somewhere that it wasn't exactly a beginner's tutorial, so I went into that with both eyes open. I'm not discouraged at all...in fact, as I mentioned I'm learning a lot. (And re-learning stuff I'd forgotten!)

I might have to look into posting a WIP if I continue having problems, thanks for that suggestion.

Best,
Bill B.

Morgan_R
06-22-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks Arsheesh! I think the blurry effect has two causes. First, I did an erosion pass to get my rivers - incise flow didn't work properly for me - and I think that may have given me a softer result. Second, I painted the masks for my different color layers with a soft brush. Next time I'd use something with some texture. Definitely room for improvement, but at this point I'm happy to have something that isn't a complete eyesore. :D

arsheesh
06-23-2012, 06:02 AM
Yup, every time I do a map in this style I learn something new myself, so there is always room for improvement. It is definitely a respectable map though.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Coppermane
06-27-2012, 10:52 PM
arsheesh, I fell in love with your maps on Obsidian Portal and followed your links to this lovely site. Thanks for the breadcrumbs that led me here. I can only hope that eventually through all of these tutorials I will be able to come up with a map even half as good as yours.

arsheesh
06-28-2012, 04:59 PM
Awe shucks, that's very nice of you to say Coppermane. When I first came to the Guild I had absolutely zero experience working with digital software, and the tutorials here really helped me learn the ropes. So if you spend some time practicing I have no doubt you'll be able to develop the skills to craft wonderful maps.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Caenwyr
09-17-2012, 10:48 AM
Well Arsheesh, I must say this is an amazing tutorial. It took me quite a while to master it, and it sure isn't the fastest way to draw mountains, but the result is far, far, far better than before I learned your technique. I'll create a seperate thread about my map in the near future, but I'll give you a quick peek at the semi-final result already. Let me know what you think about it!

48237
A larger version of the image can be found here (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iPRcHj8pC0wdI6P_bZRWBJcrFyaZjb5WTbm7alOLLGA?feat=d irectlink).

arsheesh
09-17-2012, 09:42 PM
Hi Caenwyr, I'm glad to here my tutorial was helpful to you. I like the colors of your map, they really blend together nicely. I wonder if the mountains might be a little washed out with all that white, but then if you really want to give the impression of alpine glaciers I can understand the decision to allow so much white. Overall this looks really nice.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

daeVArt
09-24-2012, 11:57 PM
wow, Just curious, is there any Photo shop translation on this tutorial? i really like the color theme... really suite the color that i really wanted for my World wide map. well, better learn GIMP then ^^... will upload the result when I start make the map :)

Korash
09-25-2012, 12:42 PM
@ daeVArt, if you are comfortable with PS I would suggest trying the tut out in PS instead of trying to learn Gimp. Most of the techniques are simular in both programs and all it realy takes is learning what the commands used in one are called in the other. Make notes as you go through the trial and error and you should start to understand what strengths and weeknesses each may have. And learn the workarounds for your prog. Which is helpful because there are LOTS of tuts for Gimp that can be used with PS and vis versa.

arsheesh
09-25-2012, 07:52 PM
@ daeVArt - I haven't used PS and so did not do a conversion guide for PS for this tut. However, Korash is right, most of the techniques discussed in this tutorial are also available in PS (in fact the gradient map is actually better in PS since PS offers a preview window that allows you to visually adjust the colors before applying them. The only thing that might be different are the sort of cloud patterns used for the height map. I'm not sure if PS will generate similar cloud patterns or not. If you do try it out in PS I'd be curious to see how similar the result ends up being.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

daeVArt
09-25-2012, 08:30 PM
@korash... Ah right... I'll try to apply the technique with PS then ^^
@arsheesh okay, i'll make one with PS, will Upload the result soon :)

BISHDP
09-25-2012, 11:07 PM
First off, Thank you for such a good tutorial. I am running into one problem though. My mountains look very weak and low. I seem to be unable to get the degree of peaks that you show. Is there a trick to this or some advice you could give me to improve the quality of my mountains?

arsheesh
09-26-2012, 12:35 AM
Hi BISHDP if you have an image of what you are talking about I'd be happy to look it over and make suggestions for you. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to do so until early next week (Monday or thereabouts) as I will be giving a paper at a conference this weekend and need to keep focused on preparing for it. But post up an image and I'll reply as soon as I can.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

BISHDP
09-26-2012, 07:42 AM
48493
Here is my first map that I did with your tutorial. I think it looks decent but the mountains don't look as high as I would like.

arsheesh
09-26-2012, 07:18 PM
Hi there BISHDP, I had a quick look at the image you posted here as well as the ones you posted at your WIP thread and I do have a few tips that might help:

First about the mountains. The contrast in your height map looks about right so I'm inclined to think that perhaps there is a missing step somewhere. Did you include both the "Mountain Bumps" layer (on page 7 of the tutorial)? If not, adding this layer may help to make your mountains pop out a bit. If you have added the layer, you can always increase the opacity (which should be set to 50%) and/or duplicate this layer.

Second, about the height map. If you would like a more gradual elevation from lowlands to mountain peeks, you may want do a bit more sculpting with your height map (see page 2 of the tutorial). I've attached a larger image of what one of my height maps generally looks like once I'm finished airbrushing (BTW, this is one the most time consuming elements of the process and usually takes me several hours).

Third, I noticed that your final colored map looks somewhat grainy. This might be due to setting the Noise % in Wilbur too high. If you like the grainyness, well and good. If you want a smoother map though you may need to play around with reducing the noise settings in Wilbur. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

BISHDP
09-26-2012, 09:12 PM
First off, thank you very much for you help.

I will have to try that. This map was more just a proof of concept but the one I am currently working will see the benefit of your advice. More blending and extra Mountain Bumps. Got it. Thank you again.

kaelin
01-01-2013, 12:21 AM
This is really a great tutorial. It is well-written and fabulously presented. It is the first tutorial I've followed beginning to end and to be honest, I've learned a lot about using GIMP with this tutorial. To be fair, I'd never used GIMP prior to this tutorial. I was admittedly daunted when I saw it described as intermediate, but the tutorial is written in such a way as to walk me through each step of the process. I've not done anything that I'm brave enough to post here yet, but as I work through it more and more, I will have to post something, I suppose. :)

kaelin
01-01-2013, 11:58 PM
This is the result of my working through the tutorial completely. My mountains seem to have gone awry somewhere along the way and the beginnings of some of the rivers need cleaning up. This is a land area roughly twice the size of Europe. All in all, it was a thoroughly enjoyable project and a lot of fun. I'll go back and rework my way through it, having a better understanding of both the steps and GIMP.
50908

arsheesh
01-02-2013, 04:12 AM
Thanks for the kind words Kaelin, I'm glad that the tutorial was helpful to you, and you've done great considering that you are new to GIMP and this was your first crack at digital cartography. About the mountains: it looks like you are missing the bump map layer, or else that the wrong layer got bump mapped. In the "Filters" menu when you select "Bump Map" (for the Land Bumps and Mountain Bumps layers), you need to be sure to select the appropriate layer from the drop down menu (labeled "Bump Map") at the top of the Bump Map window (see below), otherwise the filter will default to bump mapping the top layer in your layers stack.

kaelin
01-02-2013, 08:13 PM
Thank you, sir! I appreciate the quick response and will go back and make sure I do it correctly.
I was very inspired by the Eriond map and thought it would really bring life to my game world. I'm using a test map for the learning process. Again, I aprpeciate both the quick response and correction and the tutorial itself! I'd rep again, but it seems I have to spread it around some. :)

kaelin
01-04-2013, 01:05 AM
So I went back and applied the proper mask to the proper channel and also noticed that I had not changed the ppi (still at 72). I'm going to try it again but use a lower noise setting as the land bumps look more like a skin disease, otherwise, a few adjustments later and...
50972

arsheesh
01-07-2013, 11:19 PM
Sorry for the delayed response, I've been on holiday for the past several days. Thanks for the kind words and I hope you are satisfied with the end result. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Naeddyr
02-13-2013, 02:13 PM
A++++++ Would Download Again

arsheesh
02-13-2013, 03:41 PM
Thanks Naeddyr!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

okami
02-17-2013, 09:34 PM
This is an amazing tutorial. I love it. I'm about halfway through and just have a quick question. Why do you need two different layers for placing mountains? (Mountains 1 and Mountains 2) It's just a bit confusing for me, is all. Also, I may just be missing something, but is there something specific I need to do in order to keep the pieces of mountains I've cut out inside my land area?

arsheesh
02-17-2013, 10:07 PM
Thanks so much Okami! In response to the first part of your question, the reason why you need two layers for the mountains is that at a later stage you will be erasing (fading) the hard edges of the mountain pieces so that they blend in together to make a seamless whole. If you had placed all of the mountain pieces on the same layer, then you could not do this; any attempt to erase (at low opacity) some portion of the mountains would erase all of it. As to the second part of your question, well, you could always add a land mask to the mountain layers, that ought to do it.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

okami
02-17-2013, 11:11 PM
Awesome! Thanks for answering so quickly. :D

David3
03-09-2013, 01:28 AM
thanks, arsheesh
great tutorial

arsheesh
03-10-2013, 04:29 AM
thanks, arsheesh
great tutorial

My pleasure, glad it is of use to you!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

zukeprime
05-01-2013, 07:14 PM
Really awesome tutorial Arsheesh...though I have to admit I was pulling my hair out with Wilbur, mostly trying to get rivers where I want them. Just wanted to show what I was able to do. First, I started with a CC3 map I made for some folks on G+ just for kicks. I wanted to replicate this map, but give it a more realistic feel.
54142
Obviously, you can tell its a CC3 map a mile away.

Using your tutorial, this was what I was able to do:
54143

I'm really impressed with the results. Obviously, I'm still not done. For example, I'm going to have to manually add some rivers in the dark "blob-ish" swamp area in the south. The trouble I was having with Wilbur is that it wasn't making good rivers...it kept making these terribly short "wisps". My solution was to go back to Gimp and tone down the Land Clouds layer (reducing contrast) and doing a little more sculpting on the areas I wanted to force rivers. The only place it really didn't work was in the south swamp area, and the southeast peninsula where you can see a bit of a rut moving nw to se. Also, I probably should have spent more time beefing up my mountains, they look a little sparse and thin.

Anyway, I wanted to personally thank you for taking the time to make such an incredibly detailed tutorial. Any chance we can get your techniques on labeling? LOL, that's my next step.

arsheesh
05-02-2013, 12:05 AM
Really awesome tutorial Arsheesh...though I have to admit I was pulling my hair out with Wilbur, mostly trying to get rivers where I want them... The trouble I was having with Wilbur is that it wasn't making good rivers...it kept making these terribly short "wisps". My solution was to go back to Gimp and tone down the Land Clouds layer (reducing contrast) and doing a little more sculpting on the areas I wanted to force rivers. The only place it really didn't work was in the south swamp area, and the southeast peninsula where you can see a bit of a rut moving nw to se.

Anyway, I wanted to personally thank you for taking the time to make such an incredibly detailed tutorial. Any chance we can get your techniques on labeling? LOL, that's my next step.

Yeah getting rivers to correspond to a previously existing map is one of the trickiest things to do when using Wilbur. The method you described is pretty much how I handle it, but it can be very time consuming. I'm really glad that the tutorial was helpful to you, your results turned out very nicely (great work!). As to labels, it seems to me that someone here once wrote up a walk-through on this, but darned if I can find it. However I think RobA has in in one or two of his tutorials discussed how to place text on a path (to make curved text) in GIMP and in Inkscape. I've thought about creating a sort of basic 101 level "how to" that describes things such as this and how to create icons and such. However sadly my plate is full at the moment and I don't think I'll be able to do pursue this for some time.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

zukeprime
05-02-2013, 04:07 PM
Arsheesh, I'm trying to develop a specific technique for making cliffs using your method. I think it's working ok, but wanted to see if you've got a better technique. First my starting experimental picture.
54172

Just a succession of gray colors in the general shape of a cliff, with a difference cloud layer mixed in.

Import into wilbur and run noise, fill, and precipiton results in this
54173

Ignore the scraggly edges...just playing around. I think it looks ok, but the hard drop off causes weird color anomalies in the gradient map, i.e. the hard green line. I think I can utilize this for my mapping project, but wanted to ping you or anyone else on a different or better technique?

Oh...forgot to add, I used both the BUMP layer and an added emboss layer, both set to overlay. Played around with the transparencies until I got the "pop" I wanted. Merged them together when I was happy with it. On hindsight I think its perhaps a little too harsh.

I think I can implement this into your tutorial flow during the blending phase. Instead of blending directly onto the LAND BUMPS layer, use a transparent layer on top to do the blending. Then, you can cut a 'hard edge' on your cliff area, with a distinct light (top of cliff) and dark (bottom of cliff) transition. I'll see if it works.

arsheesh
05-02-2013, 07:03 PM
Arsheesh, I'm trying to develop a specific technique for making cliffs using your method. I think it's working ok, but wanted to see if you've got a better technique... I think I can utilize this for my mapping project, but wanted to ping you or anyone else on a different or better technique?

I think I can implement this into your tutorial flow during the blending phase. Instead of blending directly onto the LAND BUMPS layer, use a transparent layer on top to do the blending. Then, you can cut a 'hard edge' on your cliff area, with a distinct light (top of cliff) and dark (bottom of cliff) transition. I'll see if it works.

I recently had to make a plateau in one of my maps and I used a method almost exactly similar to the one you've employed here. Just added an additional layer, rendered fractal clouds in it, used the curves function (under "Colors") to lighten the clouds, isolated the boundary areas of the plateau and deleted the rest, and then blended the edges of the plateau a bit. So yes, I think you are on the right track here. Be curious to see an update of this.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

zukeprime
05-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Thanks Arsheesh. I'm still trying to figure this out. I've redone the map about 2-3 times, trying to get it just right in Wilbur. Here's the latest iteration:
54250

No matter how hard I try, the swamp lands in the south start looking too hand drawn. Oh well...

My mind is blown at the moment...I think I'm just going to go with it, and start putting in the towns, etc.

arsheesh
05-05-2013, 06:44 PM
Well perhaps the swamp-lands look a bit hand-drawn but I don't take that to be a problem. I think the map is really coming along nicely. You are doing great work.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

waldronate
05-05-2013, 06:53 PM
The critical part of getting rivers where you want them with Wilbur is to have a mask with the rivers baked into it. Starting with your initial CC3 map, I made a few masks:

54252
Coast

54257
Coast with waterways

54253
Hills

54254
Mountains

The basic process was:
1) Load Coast as select, add 100 to altitude, then add a mound 50 high.
2) Load coast with waterways and add 100 to altitude.
3) Repeat for Hills and mountains.
4) Reload Coast as a selection to bound the erosion effects.
5) Now add noise with a value of about 25.
6) Fill basins and incise flow.
7) Now 25ish rounds of precipiton erosion to smooth things out.
A few more rounds of steps from 2 through 7 (you may want to adjust the maximum values to get slightly different effects).

54256
Result

arsheesh
05-05-2013, 07:03 PM
Huh! I've never considered doing it that way before. I've got to try this now. Thanks for the walk-through Waldronate.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

zukeprime
05-05-2013, 07:15 PM
Thanks Waldronate. As you posted this, I was working through the Fun with Wilbur Volume 1 tutorial. I used a river mask on the previous post, but I didn't raise the mountain terrain, other than what I had already done in the GIMP height map. Let me play around with it.

zukeprime
05-06-2013, 12:29 AM
ok...I think I'm getting somewhere. I really overdid the rivers on this one. Please don't laugh...and ignore the colors! It's really late and my eyes are busting out. Ha!

Base Image
54268

River Mask
54272

Hill Mask
54269

Mtn Mask
54270

Final Product
54271

The only problem I see using such large noise and precipiton iterations is that I lost a lot of depth to the non-mountainous terrain. The rivers, however, come out really nice. Obviously, I turned it up to ELEVEN on the rivers, but I wanted to see what happened. Also, my choice of brush pattern (Acrylic 2) for the hill mask leaves an obvious mark.

Thanks for the help...I think I've got some good info to work with now.

waldronate
05-06-2013, 01:10 AM
One thing that the Eriond tutorial does is to incise flow to run rivers. You can also use Wilbur's Texture>>Other Maps>>River Flow tool to create a river map that you can drop on top of the terrain without having to carve the deep canyons all the way down to sea level. Learning the correct settings will take a bit of practice because the tool's effects vary a bit with the resolution of the image. More precipiton erosion will reduce the hard edges from the masks.

zukeprime
05-06-2013, 10:04 AM
Yeah...one of the things I'm struggling with in this process is exporting a decent river map that I can use in GIMP as a mask. Exporting the height map is great, but the GIMP color picker tool at a threshold of 15 only gets the major low-lying rivers and ignores the higher rivers/glacial flows in the mountains. If I color pick those, I end up with half the mountain selected just based on the color delta.

Anyhoo, I tried using the River Map option in Wilbur, but I end up with thousands of little rivers. It still doesn't seem to work even after a healthy dose of erosion, noise, and fill basins. For example, right before my normal 'incise flow' I'll try to generate a river map, it fails to produce the rivers as expected. When I immediately go to incise flow, I get those nice rivers. Obviously I'm missing something. Let me correct myself, I actually did get a nice river pattern once, but it was extremely faint (1px?) and I can't reproduce that result.

BTW, waldronate: I really do appreciate your help. I thoroughly enjoy using Wilbur to produce realistic terrain, and combined with arsheesh's tutorial it really is fun. I'm also an FT3/CC3 customer, so thanks for helping dev so many great tools.

waldronate
05-06-2013, 10:31 PM
If you're getting lots of little river segments, it's because the river networks aren't connected. Try loading the coast mask and do a couple of basin fills before doing the find rivers. For some reason, basin fills don't seem to be generating a fully-connected network at the moment, but I'm not sure if it's a problem in my development version or the public one (I haven't looked at it in a while).

Fun with Wilbur, Volume 5 (http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/FunWithWilburVol5/index.html) describes a way to get the basins looking like basins with a connected river network flowing through it. An important point of this tutorial is that once you get the terrain looking broadly the way you want it, you can generate rivers from a slightly different terrain and still overlay it on top of the main terrain and get plausible results.

The only part of CC3 that I worked on is a few effects. I'm just an independent contractor for some small things at ProFantasy.

zukeprime
05-08-2013, 11:12 AM
I think I've got a good flow worked out, based on Arsheesh's tutorial and the procedure you outlined above. There were a few major items I was struggling with. 1) Precipiton erosion was carving huge cliffs on the coasts, 2) Incise flow/precipiton made very nice river drainage patterns, but too strongly for what I was trying to accomplish, 3) Trying to balance sufficient mountain erosion to make it look real, while at the same time minimizing massive erosion of my flatter areas.

I've precipiton'd about a thousand times lol! This is what I've done. First I used a completely blank canvas and selection areas as given by Waldronate...no use of noise backgrounds whatsoever. The mountain and hill masks are the same from my previous post. I changed the river mask to include only the rivers, no coastlines and inverted the colors. So, instead of adding 100 feet to the coast/river selection between each iteration, I actually subtracted 100 feet from only the rivers/lakes. Why? Well this prevented a continual build up of the coastlines and allowed a smoother 'beach' area in selected zones.

Also, I noticed my mountains weren't really eroding into mountain shapes, so I stopped adding to the mountain layer after the first pass. Instead I added to the hill selection which effectively raised the hills and mountain areas (my hill selection covers mountains and hills). If I started over on a new map, I'll probably make significant changes to the hill/mountain pattern...using a new brush pattern, separating the hills and mountains, etc.

The results are subtly different, but I'm pleased with it tbh. The river erosion areas are still slightly too prominent, but that's mostly a function of the color selection of the gradient fill. I'm currently trying to develop a smoother blend to even out the erosion areas. Also, this is still a WIP, so the picture you see is where I stopped after trying to add some beaches on the coast. I also haven't edited in my lakes, so the straight line anomalies you see in the river erosion are where lakes are supposed to go.

54360

zukeprime
05-08-2013, 11:42 AM
This is just the temperate layer, which I think shows the erosion in the mountains a little better.
54361

arsheesh
05-09-2013, 05:34 AM
Looking really nice zukeprime. With each new iteration there have been subtle changes that have improved the overall map.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

yokai
05-18-2013, 11:16 AM
Excellent work.

Coriolis
07-31-2013, 02:39 PM
Arsheesh,

Is it possible to predetermine the locations of some of the rivers with WILBUR, or do the river flow patterns and locations have to be determined by the minor elevation noise?

Could you, for instance, draw in a river as a long, winding skinny bit of ocean going into the land?

arsheesh
07-31-2013, 02:57 PM
Unfortunately no, not with my method at least. You can try to approximate river placement via elevation, but there is no precision here. On the other hand two pages back Waldronate describes a method for getting the rivers where you want them that I have yet to try. Might be worth checking out.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Coriolis
08-01-2013, 07:58 PM
Perhaps I could try airbrushing and smudging the lower elevations to match the required course of a river. I'll give it a shot.

Coriolis
08-02-2013, 05:19 PM
Success!

The darkened river valleys shoe-horned WILBUR's rivers nicely. I probably could have done it with a narrower river valley, but it worked.

56605

arsheesh
08-02-2013, 05:45 PM
Glad to here this worked for you Coriolis. Looking great so far.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

ukie
08-20-2013, 02:19 AM
Great Tutorial. I hope you will consider making a video because the final result was not as refined as example :(

arsheesh
08-20-2013, 03:21 AM
Thanks ukie. Sorry to here that. I hadn't considered doing a video. If I had the time I'd look into it but unfortunately these days my dissertation keeps me pretty busy.

ukie
08-20-2013, 11:27 PM
Too bad :( I hope you don't mind me bugging you. Good luck on dissertation. How much time are they giving you to write it? they gave me 8 years all together although hopefully I will finish it in 3 :)

arsheesh
08-21-2013, 04:42 AM
No bother at all ukie, wish I could oblige. My hope is to be done in 3 and a half, but it may go as long as 4. We'll see. Best wishes on your own dissertation btw.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

ukie
08-21-2013, 07:07 PM
Good luck to you too :)

Thorf
08-22-2013, 09:23 PM
There are elements I really like in all of your maps in this thread, zukeprime. If I might make a suggestion, why don't you layer all the images and then use masks to blend the most interesting parts of each attempt at the map? You'll end up with a map with lots of great variety, as well as doing what you want it to do. Of course it will require some fiddling to get the heights to line up properly, but I think you could make a really nice map that way.

I have a question for you about this stage of your map:


Base Image
54268

Final Product
54271

The rocky hills in this map are really cool! I can't quite work out how they came about from the base image - can you remember what kind of processing you did to them to make them come out this way? Also, if you still have the height map for the final product at this stage, I'd love to see it too.

Jae Dub 003
10-08-2013, 03:25 PM
This is an incredible tutorial. I been following it closely & asking lots of questions. But now at that end. I am stumped at the land noise portion. I can get the first part of noise done. But somehow, after I complete that process, I am no longer able to "replace selection with this channel" after I 15% blur. Not sure if I am in the channel, or layer. But I am pretty sure I am following the tutorial right. Anyone else have suggestions?

schattentanz
10-14-2013, 04:04 PM
Hi :)

First of all: Thanks for this tutorial - basically THIS is exactly, what I've been looking for my whole (digital mapmaking) life :)

Right now, I'm stuck, though, in the Wilbur part, when it comes to creating rivers.

For a better understanding, I have attached the result, Wilbur produces:
Where the red lines are, I would have loved to see some rivers - instead the coastline gets "fractured" (sort of) and some (2, last time I counted) rivers appear in the ocean area ..

Now I'm wondering: What am I doing wrong / how do I do this right?



Thanks and kind regards,
Kai :)

arsheesh
10-14-2013, 04:54 PM
Hi schattentanz, I'm glad to here the tutorial is of use to you. About the coastlines, do you mean that you get lots of little rivers and grooves carved into the shore? If so that's a normal part of the Precipiton erosion process. If you'd rather not have them in your map just skip this particular step. However just so you are aware, one of the advantages of using the precipiton erosion filter is that it helps to gently erode hard edges, so if there are any edge-bits of mountain clouds on your map which, despite your best efforts at blending, still stick out, the precipiton erosion filter will help to erode them a bit. As to getting rivers in the ocean, that is completely normal. Don't worry about it because later on in the tutorial I explain how to get rid of these. On the other hand if you aren't getting rivers in the areas you indicated then there is a problem, because the incise flow erosion filter is supposed place rivers in those lower elevation points. Just to clarify then, you have run the Incise Flow filter and still aren't getting rivers there?

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

schattentanz
10-15-2013, 12:55 AM
Hi arsheesh :)
thanks for taking the time to reply and to explain :)

Yes, I did run the Incise Flow filter. I do not worry about those "rivers in the oceans" - ist rather the lack of rivers on the continents worrying me ..
As you might see from the attached image, I created riverbeds by coloring the landscapes accordingly dark .. do I need to correct this?



Thanks and Kind regards,
Kai

Thorf
10-15-2013, 09:24 AM
I don't know if this will help you, but it's worth a try.

I have found that Wilbur's rivers require basins to be completely filled in order to produce something that you might reasonably expect rivers to look like. Without filled basins, and especially if you are using incise flow, there will be little pits everywhere that suck in your rivers before they have a chance to get to any length at all. I would suggest that you try doing a fill basins command, and then try again. Note that if you are getting large basins, you may also need to add some noise - but I have found that this in itself messes up rivers, so usually I do: fill basins, percentage noise 1%, fill basins again.

arsheesh
10-15-2013, 04:49 PM
Hi arsheesh :)
thanks for taking the time to reply and to explain :)

Yes, I did run the Incise Flow filter. I do not worry about those "rivers in the oceans" - ist rather the lack of rivers on the continents worrying me ..
As you might see from the attached image, I created riverbeds by coloring the landscapes accordingly dark .. do I need to correct this?



Thanks and Kind regards,
Kai

Ah, I see, I wasn't sure if you had run the incise filter yet. OK, well as Thorf has pointed out, you do need to run a fill basins operation just prior to running incise flow. Like Thorf I then add percentage noise (though I typically use 4-5%) and then fill basins again prior to the incise flow. Have you tried doing this?

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

schattentanz
10-16-2013, 12:12 PM
Yes, I've tried it .. The issue with flattend out basins appears to be: rivers run in straight lines through them ..
I helped myself now by drawing the rivers manually on a separate layer, selecting the negative of the land mass and adding the selection of the rivers to the negative selection. Then I inverted everything and saved it to a channel - tadaa: Rivers Mask :)

Yet, some questions remain:

Regarding the Mountain Bump Layer:
You say, without it, the mountains would look diminished. I've got an issue with the whole layer (and I guess I'm doing something wrong there, again):
When I use this layer, I get a white hue mountain top on each and every mountain. Since I've got mountains in a desert, snow would just not look credible there ..
So: What am I doing wrong there?

Regarding the Arctic:
You say, after duplicating Arctic 2, you need to apply the Mt Mask. When I apply the Mt Mask, though, upon further duplicating the layer, it won't brighten up the snowy parts anymore, leaving me with a very violet arctic .. I helped myself there by just not applying the Mt Mask - served my purpose .. Yet, I wonder, whether I misinterpreted anything there, too?

Btw.: I just want to stress out once more how incredibly awesome your tutorial is, since it tought me A LOT about the features of Gimp, showing me, what a damn powerful tool Gimp is :)
Thank you so much for putting it online :)



Kind regards,
Kai

Thorf
10-16-2013, 12:19 PM
Yes, I've tried it .. The issue with flattend out basins appears to be: rivers run in straight lines through them ..

That's where the percentage noise comes in... Adding noise prevents the rivers from running in straight lines, instead making them move in nice random paths through any flat areas. The fill basins you apply after adding noise does not (usually) get rid of the noise fully, so the three action fill basins/percentage noise/fill basins thing should work to randomise your river paths with incise flow.

arsheesh
10-16-2013, 04:36 PM
Yes, I've tried it .. The issue with flattend out basins appears to be: rivers run in straight lines through them ..
I helped myself now by drawing the rivers manually on a separate layer, selecting the negative of the land mass and adding the selection of the rivers to the negative selection. Then I inverted everything and saved it to a channel - tadaa: Rivers Mask :)

Yet, some questions remain:

Regarding the Mountain Bump Layer:
You say, without it, the mountains would look diminished. I've got an issue with the whole layer (and I guess I'm doing something wrong there, again):
When I use this layer, I get a white hue mountain top on each and every mountain. Since I've got mountains in a desert, snow would just not look credible there ..
So: What am I doing wrong there?

Regarding the Arctic:
You say, after duplicating Arctic 2, you need to apply the Mt Mask. When I apply the Mt Mask, though, upon further duplicating the layer, it won't brighten up the snowy parts anymore, leaving me with a very violet arctic .. I helped myself there by just not applying the Mt Mask - served my purpose .. Yet, I wonder, whether I misinterpreted anything there, too?

Btw.: I just want to stress out once more how incredibly awesome your tutorial is, since it tought me A LOT about the features of Gimp, showing me, what a damn powerful tool Gimp is :)
Thank you so much for putting it online :)



Kind regards,
Kai

Regarding the issue with having straight rivers, I concur with Thorf's assessment. But it sounds like you've found another workaround. Moving on to Mountain Bump Map layer, the issue you describe may not be due to any mistake on your part; it's just a function of the how the colors have been set on your gradients. One way to resolve this issue is to simply modify a few of the settings on your dessert gradients so that there is less snow (or no snow) on the desert mountains. To do this open up each of your desert gradient dialogues and adjust the control sliders at the bottom right to reduce the white segment (see image below). Next create a new gradient map of the deserts using these revised gradients and then just follow the steps in the "Defining the Climate Zones" section for blending these in with your other climate zones.

Regarding the question about the arctic layer, I think I might have made a mistake here (I will have to go back and check), but what you want to do on the Arctic 3 layer is mask only the mountains so that the Artic 3 layer only affects the rest of the land (otherwise the mountains would just become too washed out). In order to do this you do add the Mt Mask to this layer, but you have to tick the box that says "Invert", otherwise the mask will mask out the land rather than the mountains.

Oh, and thanks, I'm really glad to here the tutorial has been helpful.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

58459

schattentanz
10-19-2013, 04:38 PM
Hmmm .. even though I completely removed the "snow" from the desert gradients, applying the mountain bump layer still created snow in the desert mountains ..
I helped myself out by blackening out the according parts in the layer mask and by adding/using another "color variant" layer, working the same as in your forest tutorial :)

Regarding the arctic, I think I basically did, what you described in your last posting, then I just removed a little bit from the layer mask to "bleach out" the grass land intended to become a tundra .. For the pole caps I used a blue/white layer :)

Since you've been incredibly helpful with replying as well as (and even more so) with your tutorial(s) showing the possibilities of Gimp, I've been able to create a wonderful looking map (see attached) of which I'm actually very proud (it's a fantasy map, so screw any geographical logic :lol: ).

58550

Now going onwards to details, such as kingdoms' borders, capitals, decorations and stuff :)



Thanks again for your outstanding support and kind regards,
Kai :)

arsheesh
10-20-2013, 02:54 AM
Glad to help schattentanz! Hmm, for some reason I'm getting an error message when I attempt to view the attachment. I'd love to see what you've come up with though.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

schattentanz
10-20-2013, 02:54 PM
Hu?

That's odd .. in the preview it still worked ..

Alright, let's have another go:

58566

Hopefully it will work this time ..



Kind regards,
Kai :)

arsheesh
10-21-2013, 05:25 PM
That turned out very well schattentanz. Great work!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Korash
10-26-2013, 09:48 PM
Well I finally got around to (sort of) follow this tut...and you can see the results below. I did make a few changes: Started with SRTM data and dove into the tut at the Wilbur part. I also found doing the Incise Flow that the Flow Exponent of 6.5 did nothing noticeable, but 0.65 did as shown in the tut. Not sure if it was a typo or due to the size of the work (5072x2720), but I did notice that the lower the exponent the more visible the effect. Anyhoot, The land mass is done, and now I have to populate it :)

Thanks Arsheesh for the tut and also for just maybe getting my but back behind the DM screen. Following this tut got this old noggin thinking about running stuff again.

BTW, Koodos to anyone who can figure out where this is located on good ol' Earth

Jae Dub 003
12-03-2013, 01:37 AM
Wow! The rivers look beautiful there Korash.

I have taken a long break to think on some things... mainly how I can get better land noise & make my oceans beautiful... the technique I tried at the end of the tutorial didn't produce the great waters I hoped for.

arsheesh
12-03-2013, 01:54 AM
Well I finally got around to (sort of) follow this tut...and you can see the results below. I did make a few changes: Started with SRTM data and dove into the tut at the Wilbur part. I also found doing the Incise Flow that the Flow Exponent of 6.5 did nothing noticeable, but 0.65 did as shown in the tut. Not sure if it was a typo or due to the size of the work (5072x2720), but I did notice that the lower the exponent the more visible the effect. Anyhoot, The land mass is done, and now I have to populate it :)

Thanks Arsheesh for the tut and also for just maybe getting my but back behind the DM screen. Following this tut got this old noggin thinking about running stuff again.

BTW, Koodos to anyone who can figure out where this is located on good ol' Earth

Hey sorry for the late reply, somehow I missed this. I've seen a few people who have begun with SRTM data and it's always turned out really well. I'm going to have to give this a try at some point.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

waldronate
12-03-2013, 02:29 AM
BTW, Koodos to anyone who can figure out where this is located on good ol' Earth

Using a high-latitude location like the Falkland islands really points out the importance of using a good projection. Those islands are really stretched horizontally (a factor of about 1.6, if I've done 1/cos(51.75) correctly) in the Plate Caree projection.

Jae Dub 003
12-04-2013, 08:41 PM
Soon as I have the ability to upload images, I will share my land I managed to complete with much struggle & following Arsheesh's tutorial!

arsheesh
12-04-2013, 09:56 PM
Look forward to seeing it Jae Dub.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Korash
12-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Using a high-latitude location like the Falkland islands really points out the importance of using a good projection. Those islands are really stretched horizontally (a factor of about 1.6, if I've done 1/cos(51.75) correctly) in the Plate Caree projection.

And Kudos to waldronate !! :) Yeah they were stretched out a few times while I was tooling around with the height field to make them suit what I want to see....still not sure it looks right but am willing to let it stand where it is.

Thanks Jae, it was some work to get them deep enough looking (not sure why though), but I like them too.

Arsheesh, try looking for a tut for FW Tools. It was the one that I used to get the basic height field waaaay back when.

Terokai
02-01-2014, 08:49 AM
Here is the map i spent pretty much all afternoon/evening on yesterday. Just want to say great tutorial and i am really pleased with how this turned out. The only thing i could not get was the last bit with the river mask and the selecting from channel to make the water.

60937

waldronate
02-01-2014, 11:34 PM
Not long after (and in response to, if I recall) this tutorial was originally published, Wilbur sprouted a river computation function (Texture>>Other Maps>>River Flow). This feature can make river finding much simpler, especially on terrains that have already been processed in Wilbur.

MarkusTay
02-16-2014, 06:06 PM
First, thank you Arsheesh for creating this tutorial, and thank you Waldronite and everyone else who contributed useful info in the thread.

Where can I grab the latest version of Wilbur? I am following this tutorial and I just got up to that point.

arsheesh
02-16-2014, 07:19 PM
Hi Markus, you can find the latest version (correct me if I'm wrong Waldronate) here (http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/wilbur.html).

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

MarkusTay
02-16-2014, 07:22 PM
Okay, I'll try downloading it from there - thanks for the quick response.

I downloaded it from somewhere else, and after I installed it, I can't find it. :?:


EDIT: LOL - nvmd, found it. My search function couldn't find it, so I had to look through my C drive the old-fashioned way. Weird.

Thanks again Arsheesh, for everything.

waldronate
02-16-2014, 08:51 PM
I keep meaning to fix the installer to put a shortcut somewhere useful. Probably won't happen until the next version of Wilbur comes out, which won't be for a while yet...

MarkusTay
02-17-2014, 03:54 PM
Okay, I get up to the part where I load it in Wilbur, and everything looks pretty good. I do the first few steps, and then when I get to the 'Fill Basin' part it just turns everything a sickly greenish-yellow. I've tried playing with the settings, and have even tried running the fill basin without doing the other stuff first, and all it does is slightly change the sickly color it changes everything to (everything except the peaks of the mountains).

Any ideas? I would have included some screenshots, but when I try to save the file in Wilbur all I get is my original Height Map from GIMP. Why aren't the changes applying to the save?

I can't believe I got this far and am stuck. I have a feeling it has something to do with the setting (map) itself - the world is a flat disc, so it has a ring of mountains around it, rather then ocean (but there still is lots of ocean, its just inside that mountain-barrier).

Korash
02-17-2014, 04:55 PM
What are your settings that you are using for your fills and flows? For the flows try to go large just see if you get different results. Like Arsheesh mentions near the beginning of the tuts, picture scale can have a marked difference on your settings at various points.

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

MarkusTay
02-17-2014, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the quick response.

I did shrink my map from 6600 px to 2200 px - just a shade (100) larger then the file in the tutorial, so I didn't think that would make much difference. All other settings I left at their presets, unless otherwise noted in the tutorial.

I notice that when I do the first step (in Wilbur), changing the map height in the mathematical setting to be between 500-3500, the water goes from blue to green, and starts looking like it is merging with the land. However, I did try to proceed without doing that step, and still get the same bad results when I try to fill the basins. Everything but the very tops of the mountains merge into a greenish-yellow flat color. I get the feeling it isn't detecting the coasts somehow.

I'm still thinking that it has something to do with the ring of land around the perimeter that is throwing something off in Wilbur. Everything up until that point worked just fine.

waldronate
02-17-2014, 07:40 PM
The process typically includes a "fill basins" step. This step fills basins. If you have a ring of land, it's making a basin. I'm not sure that there's much you can do with that process, unfortunately. Selecting an area to be processed does the full normal fill basins and then blends the old and new surface according to the selection, which will leave a steep cliff in the area. I should probably modify the processing on fill basins to allow for a true selection that will treat unselected areas as sinks and so allow for interior basins with a careful selection.

A nasty workaround is to duplicate your height map and cut a channel on one side of the ring in one of the maps and on the other side in the other map. Then process the two maps and blend them with an image editing tool. An ugly solution, but possibly workable.

MarkusTay
02-17-2014, 07:52 PM
Okay, now that you've just explained to me whats happening mechanically, I think I can work around it.

The ring of land/mountains around the perimeter I actually got to come out okay after tweaking some settings, but the central sea (that Wilbur is seeing as a 'basin') and continents keeps getting filed in. I can pull the center mass out of the map and do it separately, and then blend them as you suggested. There is one isthmus that connects one of the continents to the outer ring, but I'll just have to fudge that somehow.

Thanks for your input - I think I picked the wrong world to use this tutorial on, but I'll keep at it. :)

MarkusTay
02-18-2014, 12:02 PM
Well, chopping the middle of the map worked very well (I assume), and I will now treat it as two separate maps and add them back together - great suggestion.

Only problem I am having now is that when I go to add rivers, it only adds them to the ocean. Everything else looks like it worked fine (compared to the tutorial's illustrations), and yet, it decided to put the rivers in the ocean instead. Anyway to adjust something to make them find the land?

I have a feeling almost all my problems may have been from a very early mistake with the clouds layer, and now its catching up to me. Bear in mind I had to start with a map given to me, and not one that was randomly generated, so my clouds have no direct correlation to the terrain on the other layers. I tried to correct that as much as I could with the Airbrush (and got decent results), but its not as perfect as it would have been had everything been derived from the same initial clouds layer.

If there is no way of adjusting this better (to find the actual land LOL), then I may just go back to hand-drawing the rivers, which I don't think will be a big deal (or will it?)

EDIT:
Okay, by lowering the mathematics (a LOT) and only doing one erosion pass, I can get the start of a few nice rivers, but they are all very short. The only ones that go all the way to the sea are ones where the mountains happen to be really close to the sea. Hopefully, by adding this part, you guys will be better-able to figure out whats going on here... I think I am on the right track. I feel I may have to tinker with the cloud layer a bit more - although I've found when I 'lower' the coastal areas too much (darken them), they tend to blur with the sea and I get my original problem back (where Wilbur can't differentiate between the low-lying regions and Ocean).

MarkusTay
02-26-2014, 10:41 AM
So I got to the part where I apply the gradients and all I get is this awful mess that looks like a neon-green glow. I've tried backing-up a few steps (fortunately I've learned to save A LOT), but no dice. I finally decided to start from scratch again and went through the entire tutorial from beginning to end with a fine tooth-comb, double-checking each step, and I get the same exact ugly mess. For the very first time in my life I feel stupid, because I can't even figure-out what is going wrong. Even adjusting the gradient didn't help (just made it worse, actually).

It was really hard just for me to get-through the Wilbur part, but I finally got decent results with that. However, I had to re-draw all my rivers by hand - the select-by-color option simply would not work (which was fine, because I had my own river layout planned, and just used the Wilbur one for inspiration). As I mentioned above, I had to tweak all the settings to get that part to work, which probably has something to do with why the later part isn't working. I have a feeling I am making some sort of very basic mistake here (perhaps going too dark with the mountain re-paint?)

Here is what I got after Wilbur -

61806

And here is what I get after I apply the first gradient -

61807

So any ideas of where I am going wrong? The corners don't matter at all - they will be blacked-out at the end, showing only the central circle with a small bit of land around the perimeter (its a flat discworld with a mountain-barrier).

Also, early in the tutorial (1st step really), you have us creating a land mask - at that point we have the land outline still active on our screen; are we supposed to hit 'Select All' before proceeding, or are we supposed to only be creating land-clouds within the land boundaries? From the illustrations, it looks as if the entire canvas should be covered with clouds. I've tried it both ways, and I am pretty-sure it makes no difference (in fact, it might even save a step later), but I just want to make sure I am following the tutorial PRECISELY the way you meant it to be.

Thanks in-advance for any advice you guys might offer - I'm at wits end.

Falconius
02-26-2014, 12:10 PM
In the gradients you apply you have to adjust all the transitions (the little arrows) until the gradient looks right. The way I did it was to have the gradient editor open with the greyscale hight map to be changed then applied the gradient map, if it didn't look right I undid the colouring action, adjusted the gradient arrows and then applied the gradient map again. It takes a while but eventually it will look correct.

Also be sure to stick to the colour codes provided at first as they will come out looking good.

MarkusTay
02-26-2014, 12:38 PM
Thanks for the quick response.

I tried playing with the gradients quite a bit last night - it only got worse. I'll try that again in a little while - right now I am picking back through the thread and seeing where others went astray to see if I can spot the problem. I have a feeling the bump-map isn't working at all (which I don't think is the whole problem, but combine that with the gradient issue and it might be).

I seem to be having a problem figuring out which layers AND channels should be 'on' and 'off' at which steps. :?

Falconius
02-26-2014, 12:59 PM
What I found was that I needed to have the white and lighter sections for the heights taking up much of the bar, at least half if not more, and that the lower altitude colours were rather small and had to be minutely adjusted. For the picture you have though I think I'd extend the yellowish/brown area bigger taking a bit of white out and then lower the blue colour to just a sliver and start working from there.

waldronate
02-26-2014, 01:32 PM
One thing that you might try is to look at a histogram of your altitudes, either in Wilbur (Window>>Histogram) or Photoshop. The number of altitudes at each altitude can offer a suggestion as to how many colors should be in that area (lots of samples near an altitude would need more corresponding colors in the gradient).

MarkusTay
02-26-2014, 04:35 PM
Okay, Thanks.

I found a weird work-around, but it makes me think it IS a gradient issue - I added another layer on top of the Temperate layer; a white one and I set the opacity at 30%. Apparently, my map is just too damn dark. Its still far from perfect, but it looks a LOT better then it did. I think my 'working style' is the opposite of Arsheesh's - I work from dark to light when blending, and I think when he blended his mountains, he worked from the mountains outward (so he went from light to dark). My blending seems to have worked fine, but my map is much darker (comparing mine at certain steps to his illustrations). Any way to lighten up just the darker bits without washing-out the whole thing? What if I fiddled with the bump-mapping numbers? Or should I just keep tweaking the gradient?

I also had problems when I took it into Wilbur, but resolved that by tweaking the settings (had to go with lower numbers for the mathematics part). Splitting the map worked-out just fine (because of the earlier issue I had with the center becoming one huge basin). I'll keep playing with it for now...

MarkusTay
02-27-2014, 07:45 PM
On pg.10 of the tutorial, at the very bottom of the first column of text (after figure 26), you say "Add the Rivers Mask layer mask to the Arctic layer." In the next step you have us adding a black layer mask to the 2 desert layers and the arctic layer. You can't add a mask to a layer that already has a mask (at least, its not letting me do so with GIMP 2.8 ).

What am I supposed to do at this point?

Also, are we supposed to just leave all the channels 'on' all the time? They are not applied to anything unless associated with a layer, correct?

Thanks again.

EDIT: P.S. - It was gradient issue... plus a couple of other things (like my map being over-all too dark). I had to REALLY finagle the gradients to get them to work with the extremely dark palette, but I think it came out okay.

arsheesh
02-27-2014, 08:12 PM
On pg.10 of the tutorial, at the very bottom of the first column of text (after figure 26), you say "Add the Rivers Mask layer mask to the Arctic layer." In the next step you have us adding a black layer mask to the 2 desert layers and the arctic layer. You can't add a mask to a layer that already has a mask (at least, its not letting me do so with GIMP 2.8 ).

What am I supposed to do at this point?

Also, are we supposed to just leave all the channels 'on' all the time? They are not applied to anything unless associated with a layer, correct?

Thanks again.

EDIT: P.S. - It was gradient issue... plus a couple of other things (like my map being over-all too dark). I had to REALLY finagle the gradients to get them to work with the extremely dark palette, but I think it came out okay.

Hey sorry for not getting back to you on this Markus I just checked in on the tutorial here and saw that I had missed a string of your questions (thanks to everyone else out there who was much more helpful than I was).

As to your first question, that was an oversight on my part (I'll have to amend the tutorial). You'll have to "apply" the layer mask on the arctic layer (and any other previous climate areas) before adding a new layer mask.

As to the channels, no, you'll want to hide these. Keeping unhidden may be part of the reason your map is so dark. The purpose of the channels is twofold, for use as layer maps and for use as a selection device. Other than that they should remain hidden. Anyway I'll be gone for much of the weekend but if you have any further questions I'll try to respond to them early next week.

Cheers,
-arsheesh

MarkusTay
02-28-2014, 12:05 AM
Thanks for the quick response - that was a big help. :)

Hopefully when I have something respectable I'll create my own thread. If nothing else, this has been one hell of a learning experience.

Edit: One more quick question, for whoever is good with GIMP - when I turn off the layer masks under the channels, does that turn them off in whatever layers I've attached them two, or did the program make a copy of them for that purpose?

Thanks again, everyone.

arsheesh
02-28-2014, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the quick response - that was a big help. :)

Hopefully when I have something respectable I'll create my own thread. If nothing else, this has been one hell of a learning experience.

Edit: One more quick question, for whoever is good with GIMP - when I turn off the layer masks under the channels, does that turn them off in whatever layers I've attached them two, or did the program make a copy of them for that purpose?

Thanks again, everyone.

To answer your question, no, it does not. The layer masks attached to each layer are not affected by whether any particular channel is on or not.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

MarkusTay
03-07-2014, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the answer. I got some really nice results, and once I obtain permission from the setting's owner (its a commission) I will start my own thread. :)

One thing thing though that I had to work my way through - when creating the Land Bumps and Mountain Bumps layer I ran into problems, and after a few tries I realized your written instructions do not match the 'codified' text highlighted in pink (the order is different), which gives very different results. Once I simply followed the order in the highlighted text everything worked out fine.

JefBT
04-08-2014, 07:17 PM
Another amazing tutorial, thank you!

I am dazzled with the fast and amazing results that I could achieve with this tutorial. My father also loved this technique. He like maps a lot, but he don't draw.


Here are the results:
http://www.cartographersguild.com/members/jefbt-albums-studies-picture63059-pratice-wilbur-i-fell-love-first-sight-software-amazing-i-had-done-arsheesh-tutorial-http-www-cartographersguild-com-tutorials-how-18280-%255baward-winner%255d-eriond-tutorial-gimp-wilbur-html-its-amazing-tutorial-teaching-how-combine-wilbur-gimp-i-recommend-done-map-just-pratice-feel-free-use-any-non-commercial-purpose.png

"A ilha de Wilbur" = "The Isle of Wilbur". I named it that way in honor of this amazing software.

arsheesh
04-10-2014, 06:35 PM
Very nice work on this one JefBT! The oceans turned out very nicely as well. Glad to here you found the tutorials useful.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

JefBT
04-10-2014, 08:24 PM
Thank you, Arsheesh. I'm having a lot of fun with this new software (and technique)

MarkusTay
04-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Yes, I forgot to thank you as well. THANK YOU. :D

Its still a WIP (because the setting is being tweaked as we go along), but you can see it here -

63153


Its a flat world (http://www.ravenlorepress.com/), BTW, a'la Discworld, which is why the map is surrounded by a ring of mountains.

arsheesh
04-12-2014, 12:14 PM
Your welcome Markus :). That turned out nicely. Wonderful job!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

JefBT
04-14-2014, 09:09 PM
Nice job, MarkusTay.

I always imagine a disc world surrounded by waterfalls to the "nothing", but mountains are very nice.

Zaelkonan
04-19-2014, 02:30 PM
I found this website and tutorial a few weeks ago in an attempt get started at map-making. It took me a few tries to get decent results, but it's amazing how well the technique works once you get the hang of it. Thanks for the detailed tutorial, Arsheesh!

Here's what I ended up with. I went off script on a couple of things, including the rivers and ocean coloring. I'd like to have more detailed coastlines (comparable to those in MarkusTay's work in previous posts). If anyone has some advice on that, let me know.
63290

oterrien
04-19-2014, 07:11 PM
For french cartographers, I propose a translation into french of Arsheesh's tutorial.

@Arsheesh, do you authorize me to publish such a tutorial. I took care to write it is inspired of your own even if some part are different. It is also a compilation of many methods I tried during my practice in order to generate a map as yours.

63317

63335

oterrien
04-19-2014, 08:03 PM
The best method I've ever tried. Thanks to this, I succeeded in drawing the map I dreamt of.

63320

63321

JefBT
04-20-2014, 08:27 AM
Very nice map, Zaelkonan, I just think the oceans are too bright (personal opinion), but the land is awesome.

Very good map too, oterrien, but contrasting with Zaelkonan, I think your seas are too dark (again, personal opinion), but it's awesome too.

Keep going.

arsheesh
04-20-2014, 11:30 AM
I found this website and tutorial a few weeks ago in an attempt get started at map-making. It took me a few tries to get decent results, but it's amazing how well the technique works once you get the hang of it. Thanks for the detailed tutorial, Arsheesh!

Here's what I ended up with. I went off script on a couple of things, including the rivers and ocean coloring. I'd like to have more detailed coastlines (comparable to those in MarkusTay's work in previous posts). If anyone has some advice on that, let me know.


That turned out nicely Zaelkonan! For the coastline, assuming you are using the fractal clouds method, you can increase coastal detail by decreasing the size of the fractal clouds you are using. There are also some tutorials floating around somewhere that discuss other methods for making more detailed coastlines, but you'll need to look for them.


For french cartographers, I propose a translation into french of Arsheesh's tutorial.

@Arsheesh, do you authorize me to publish such a tutorial. I took care to write it is inspired of your own even if some part are different. It is also a compilation of many methods I tried during my practice in order to generate a map as yours.



Very nice! By all means, please feel free to translate the tutorial into French. Oh and I don't mind if you want to make any modifications to it either - you just may want to let others know that they are your modifications to avoid confusion and to give yourself credit for any of your own innovations.


The best method I've ever tried. Thanks to this, I succeeded in drawing the map I dreamt of.



I'm very happy to here that oterrien, you've done a bang-up job and ought to be proud!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

oterrien
04-21-2014, 06:28 PM
Thank you Arsheesh for your words. I am very happy to hear compliment from a god-cartographer as you.

I put here the tutorial widely inspired from yours I have written last week. It is not a strict translation of yours but the idea is almost the same. Feel free to revert to me if any.

63388

oterrien
04-21-2014, 06:30 PM
Thank you JefBT. Do you prefer something like that regarding to water color ?

63389

That is what I expected to do for the next step.

JefBT
04-21-2014, 09:44 PM
That's awesome oterrien.

I just complained about the water color because I like middle range colors most, but that way is good too.

By the way, that brownish map you made is wonderful, very good effect.

arsheesh
04-23-2014, 12:55 PM
Thank you Arsheesh for your words. I am very happy to hear compliment from a god-cartographer as you.

I put here the tutorial widely inspired from yours I have written last week. It is not a strict translation of yours but the idea is almost the same. Feel free to revert to me if any.

63388

Unfortunately I do not speak French, but I was able to follow along with the tutorial just be the example images. A really nice tutorial Oterrian, you've done a great job innovating it and taking it in a new direction. Thanks for sharing it.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh