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vorropohaiah
05-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Hi all, I've been a lurker round here for some years now and come back here every so often to look at the gorgeous Cartographers' choice maps and some great tutorials (yes, I too took my first stumbling steps in photoshop under the aegis of the Saederan tutorial - now im a certified ACE in PS5 :) ), though thought its about time i posted one of my own maps on here.

Im primarily a worldbuilder and the maps i make are mostly intended for my own use, though over the past mopnths I've come to enjoy making the maps almost as much as writing the background and history for my world. This is an old map (version 3.0, I'd say) of the main continents of my world, Elyden. Im currently working on the latest iteration which is somewhat larger - at 300 dpi and 4' x 6', it's a beast, though my goal is to print it out and hang on the wall of my geeky den so i can look at it witha glass of cold cider in one hand and feel proud :p.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/old_map_2011.jpg

This is a low-res jpeg of the original map which has many layers in psd format. The new version of the map has changed somewhat (changing rhumb lines for lat/long for a start, and changing the border for something more classiacal, as well as changing the scale to concentrate more on the main sea (the Inner Sea, to anyone interested) and if anyone wants to see a snippet of the newer WIP version i can post a pic, though it'll be a long time until i complete it as im writing nation histroies as i go along, and am about 1/3 done after about 6-months of work. The mountains are just individual hill brushes (i have about 20 in all) which i choose one at a time, though once the main map is done ill draw over them manually with my wacom.

Please give C&C as ive been working along for most of this time and outside opinions would be much appreceated,

thanks

EDIT: i managed to upload a higher res version of the new map as well as a cropped version of the one above (minus grunge), centered around an area I call the arid Triptych

TheRedEpic
05-21-2012, 03:12 PM
This map is absolutely fantastic. Love the feel, the design, and the complicated simplicity. Bravo man, took my breath away:)

jfrazierjr
05-21-2012, 03:19 PM
Would needs to see a higher res version to give a fair critique, but initially at this scale, the map is nicely done.... I would suggest saving a copy of the map, merge all the layers, and then scale down to around umm... 3000px wide.. then save a copy to jpeg at perhaps 85% resolution and it should easily come in under the site's file size upload limits.

arsheesh
05-21-2012, 03:32 PM
I completely agree with Jfraz, this map is a tease! All of the detail you've invested into the map tempts me to look closer, but I can't! Please upload a larger res image so that we can see your map in all of its detailed glory. Oh, and enjoy some rep for a job well done.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Jaxilon
05-21-2012, 03:43 PM
Yep, this looks really good and is one of those that gets under my skin because I really want to zoom in so yeah, if you can export a .jpg of this puppy at a bit higher rez so we can sink our teeth in, I for one would really like that. :)

Wonderful looking map and here comes some rep your way as well.

Bogie
05-21-2012, 04:00 PM
Excellent map, great detailing in the borders and legend. Gotta give it some Rep!!

Like everyone else, I'd like a high res version. As long as the map is 4 MB or less it will post fine.

vorropohaiah
05-21-2012, 04:07 PM
This map is absolutely fantastic. Love the feel, the design, and the complicated simplicity. Bravo man, took my breath away:)

thanks :)


Would needs to see a higher res version to give a fair critique, but initially at this scale, the map is nicely done.... I would suggest saving a copy of the map, merge all the layers, and then scale down to around umm... 3000px wide.. then save a copy to jpeg at perhaps 85% resolution and it should easily come in under the site's file size upload limits.

the attached pic is actually 40 mb, though im guessing the site resizes it when its attached. I'll try resize and add another copy, though the original is so big itll likely lose a lot of detail...

Freodin
05-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Critique, critique... I'm always looking for things to poke at. ;)

The paper texture is a little heavy, perhaps... and - personal antipathy incomming - I absolutely hate the font you chose. Also, at several labels you went overboard with curving text, which makes it extremely difficult to read.

Now that this is said: it's a stunning map! The detail and execution of the lands makes me want to dive right into it and explore.

jfrazierjr
05-21-2012, 07:56 PM
nice big res pic... I have to agree with Freodin.... tone down the paper texture... sometimes less is more... On the other hand, I am fine with your font in "most" places. The curvy text has GOT to go IMHO... And it's just not readable in the cartouche(but then again I DO realize that a) this is smaller than print size so it might be ok, and b) the texture fix mentioned before could help improve the readability.) Personally, I would like to see the non map elements (borders, cartouche, etc) lines grunged up or changed to match the actual land outlines color. As is, there are a few places where they are but too sharp and crisp when compared to the actual map itself.

EDIT: forgot to mention this in original reply. This is already very good and has the potential to be a stunning blockbuster once a few small tweaks are done....

Gidde
05-21-2012, 10:45 PM
This is a great map! I agree with jfrazierjr on the grunging of some of the ink. It could use a little crackling/bleeding. The only other thing I would add is that the font doesn't match the swashes. It's a very blocky squarish font, and then you have curvy swashes going on all around it. I'd either make the decorations more squarish, or the font more roundish. Personally I find the font very difficult to read, so I'd vote for changing the font rather than the swashes.

As others have said, I want to reiterate that it's already fantastic. If it seems like we're nitpicking, we are ... because this could be REALLY awesome.

vorropohaiah
05-22-2012, 01:18 AM
thanks for the feedback.

regarding the font: that's actually my favourite font, however, I also realised its not very good for the map so in the new version I'm working on I replaced it with a Serif font, Dark11, so that should have fixed it.

regarding the text style: I never really thought about the curves in the text, though after looking between the old and newer version I realised I must have unconsciously toned down on the curves also (though they're still there). let me know what you think of the newer version (still very much a WIP and is still in need of grunge and other weathering, and various other details, including some colour correction to get a bit more life into it) again, any suggestions are move than welcome.

I also added another file; a cropped area on the original map, which should again be in higher res that the original pic (without grunging I believe)

Clercon
05-22-2012, 02:29 AM
This is an amazing map you have accomplished. The details are stunning!

Fury
05-22-2012, 04:43 AM
It's very good indeed. Though the way some of the borders cut across mountains and rivers is a little jarring. Perhaps the borders could use a little blending into the map? Some of the mountains near Mulciber are cut off and gives another jarring effect.

Eilathen
05-22-2012, 06:25 AM
Wow...just wow! This is totally stunning. I love it. You hit the nail on the head as far as my map-taste goes :)
Now, i really want to know more about the world. Care to share the stuff about the world (as it sounds you have written up a lot)?

Btw, i dig the older map more. I just love the shapes better than in the new iteration.

Have some Rep.!

vorropohaiah
05-22-2012, 08:36 AM
This is a great map! I agree with jfrazierjr on the grunging of some of the ink. It could use a little crackling/bleeding.

Good point, and something I've been wanting to try. I'm guessing you mean the text (or any aspect that, in real-life would have been applied to the canvas by ink). any ideas on how i can do that effefctively?


Now, i really want to know more about the world. Care to share the stuff about the world (as it sounds you have written up a lot)?

Btw, i dig the older map more. I just love the shapes better than in the new iteration.

Have some Rep.!

thanks :) well, without cluttering up the thread too much (dont want to start adding not map-related attachments) here's a few things done on PS that are related to the world of Elyden. the first is a poem that's about 8-years old now, that was intended as an introduction to a novel that's now stalled. the second is a fable from the same world.

both backgrounds were made from scratch on PS, with text imported from word and warped with a displacement layer.

both documents are now intended to be used as filler text-boxes for the in-world encyclopaedia im writing (a monolithic undertaking that i plan on self-publishing, if i ever finish it)

Gidde
05-22-2012, 12:07 PM
Good point, and something I've been wanting to try. I'm guessing you mean the text (or any aspect that, in real-life would have been applied to the canvas by ink). any ideas on how i can do that effefctively?

I haven't found/figured out a good way to crackle it yet, but a low-strength spatter filter does wonders for making the edge a little less computer-generated-perfect (it doesn't work on transparency though, so it has to be a black ink/white background layer which then can be set to Multiply mode so the white disappears). The text itself would benefit, but what really caught my eye as needing it were the decorative swirlies in "ink" at the corners and such.

arsheesh
05-24-2012, 08:28 PM
I really dig the Holy Korachani Empire map! Fantastic work on this.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

maxsdaddy
05-24-2012, 09:12 PM
Very nice work. The inner sea map looked disturbingly familiar, but happily different. I felt like I should recognize it. Like a Steven King "Dark Tower" todash. Or Deja vu. Have some rep.

vorropohaiah
05-25-2012, 02:28 AM
I haven't found/figured out a good way to crackle it yet, but a low-strength spatter filter does wonders for making the edge a little less computer-generated-perfect (it doesn't work on transparency though, so it has to be a black ink/white background layer which then can be set to Multiply mode so the white disappears). The text itself would benefit, but what really caught my eye as needing it were the decorative swirlies in "ink" at the corners and such.

thanks for that, I'm gonna give it a try.


I really dig the Holy Korachani Empire map! Fantastic work on this.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

thanks


Very nice work. The inner sea map looked disturbingly familiar, but happily different. I felt like I should recognize it. Like a Steven King "Dark Tower" todash. Or Deja vu. Have some rep.

i hope you dont mean plagarised in any way! that's the last thing i want. if you mean it looks sort of like the Mediterranean, theres some logic to it, other than making a map thats somehow familiar (maybe invoking thoughts of the roman empire at its height) I thought that making something similar to the Med would make it easier to determine climate and weather, especially since im haveing a really hard time trying to sort out things like hadley cells and mid-latitude cells and trying to figure out where the rain-shadow would be. of course, all that after foolishly determining where my deserty and foresty places are going to be years ago, which means some of my forests are technically in rain-shadow zones, and vice versa for the deserts, so im either forced to retcon a lot of places' climates or finding ways to explain why they ignore global climate rules :s

ah well :)

EDIT: i was also probably a bit to rash in posting the map, though only realised after opening the thread that WIPS go somewhere else, so when i do get round nto positing more of the WIP thread I'll do it in a more appropriate place where i can hopefully get more crits.

thanks again for the comments

Valtharius
05-26-2012, 10:15 AM
Fantastic map! A few names askew and difficult to read, but that can be easily fixed. I love the layout. Naming conventions are pretty much spot on. I did notice a few names of places taken from Egyptian mythology. Not sure if this was intentional, or perhaps the civilization in question simply came up with the name without prior knowledge of said god(s) because it sounded right. Personally, I like the heavy paper approach. It reminds me of some of the archived paper work in the Tower of London.

As far as climate goes... that is your call. It is your world after all. We can argue physics, river flow, and weather all we want, but it comes down to what you want. Perhaps there are physics at play that we don't know about. Maybe the star your planet orbits around has a slightly slow rotation, or the star gives off a pulse of solar radiation that causes the weather to be wacky and the climates to be different than our own. That's the beauty of creating your own FANTASY world. The operative word here is fantasy, imagination unrestricted by reality.

Have fun and I am looking forward to more of your work!

~Val


i hope you dont mean plagarised in any way! that's the last thing i want. if you mean it looks sort of like the Mediterranean, theres some logic to it, other than making a map thats somehow familiar (maybe invoking thoughts of the roman empire at its height) I thought that making something similar to the Med would make it easier to determine climate and weather, especially since im haveing a really hard time trying to sort out things like hadley cells and mid-latitude cells and trying to figure out where the rain-shadow would be. of course, all that after foolishly determining where my deserty and foresty places are going to be years ago, which means some of my forests are technically in rain-shadow zones, and vice versa for the deserts, so im either forced to retcon a lot of places climate or finding ways to explains why they ignore global climate rules :s

vorropohaiah
05-29-2012, 02:29 AM
Fantastic map! A few names askew and difficult to read
you mean the curved text? I'm thinking of what i can do to fix those (apart from the change in font i already applied to the new version of the map), any tips? Also i wish i could make thicker underlines on some places without having to manually stroke them (that sounds bad...)


I did notice a few names of places taken from Egyptian mythology. Not sure if this was intentional, or perhaps the civilization in question simply came up with the name without prior knowledge of said god(s) because it sounded right.
theres some mesapotamian names (eg. baalbec), greek (eg. parthia) and other obscure places (well, obscure to me at least). some i might change


Personally, I like the heavy paper approach. It reminds me of some of the archived paper work in the Tower of London.
thanks, though i think as this is meant ot be more of a contemporary altas-type map, i'll probably reduce the texture on the paper. I'll certainly use this paper-textur e for other documents and maps i create.


As far as climate goes... that is your call. It is your world after all. We can argue physics, river flow, and weather all we want, but it comes down to what you want. Perhaps there are physics at play that we don't know about. Maybe the star your planet orbits around has a slightly slow rotation, or the star gives off a pulse of solar radiation that causes the weather to be wacky and the climates to be different than our own. That's the beauty of creating your own FANTASY world. The operative word here is fantasy, imagination unrestricted by reality.

this is one of my biggest problems when it comes to the worldbuilding. im obsessed withd etails and trying to make things as realistic as i can, but the world itself is inherently non-realtistic - with the dreams of grotesque maddened gods warping the land; seas slowly drying up and cankers and deformities affecting everything from flora to fauna and the unliving world alike. AARRGH! lol though its decisions like those that i love about worldbuilding

Hai-Etlik
05-29-2012, 04:31 AM
The scales, graticules, rhumb lines, and compasses all conflict with each other or otherwise just don't make sense. The one thing that does work is that the large and small scale maps do seem to have corresponding scales. The middle map though doesn't match up. You also have a compass rose and a set of rhumb lines on the small scale map, and then several other rosettes of rhumb lines in other parts of the map, that don't line up with the first set. The large and small scale maps also have rhumb lines and a compass rose in the case of the small scale map, which all means they are bearing preserving, the middle map seems to be using a graticule from an equatorial aspect of an azimuthal projection or a derived projection like Aitoff or Hammer, which are decidedly not bearing preserving. Notice that the meridians aren't parallel lines, that means that north and south are varying. (A note, even if they are parallel lines, that just means north-south is preserved, some projections preserve that while still distorting directions like "northeast").

Even ignoring the mismatch between the maps, the graticule doesn't make sense. As I said, I'm not entirely sure what projection it is, but it's not a projection that would be used for that map. It's hard to say where exactly the map is on the globe or what its true extent or orientation are given the inconsistencies, but it would probably make most sense to use a conic projection, or, if you were going to use an azimuthal projection, one which is actually centred on the map.

Also, if the small scale map really is bearing preserving over such a large extent, then it has to be in Normal Mercator projection, which significantly distorts scale, and so shouldn't have a scale bar.

You seem to be doing curved text using Envelope Deformation. This gives the text a sort of squashed or smeared look. "Text on Path" is a better way to do this. It will shift and rotate each glyph to fit on the curve without distorting it.

45258

Otherwise very pretty, and I like that the different maps show a degree of error between them rather than computer precise replication.

vorropohaiah
05-29-2012, 05:48 AM
The scales, graticules, rhumb lines, and compasses all conflict with each other or otherwise just don't make sense. The one thing that does work is that the large and small scale maps do seem to have corresponding scales. The middle map though doesn't match up. You also have a compass rose and a set of rhumb lines on the small scale map, and then several other rosettes of rhumb lines in other parts of the map, that don't line up with the first set. The large and small scale maps also have rhumb lines and a compass rose in the case of the small scale map, which all means they are bearing preserving, the middle map seems to be using a graticule from an equatorial aspect of an azimuthal projection or a derived projection like Aitoff or Hammer, which are decidedly not bearing preserving. Notice that the meridians aren't parallel lines, that means that north and south are varying. (A note, even if they are parallel lines, that just means north-south is preserved, some projections preserve that while still distorting directions like "northeast").

Even ignoring the mismatch between the maps, the graticule doesn't make sense. As I said, I'm not entirely sure what projection it is, but it's not a projection that would be used for that map. It's hard to say where exactly the map is on the globe or what its true extent or orientation are given the inconsistencies, but it would probably make most sense to use a conic projection, or, if you were going to use an azimuthal projection, one which is actually centred on the map.

Also, if the small scale map really is bearing preserving over such a large extent, then it has to be in Normal Mercator projection, which significantly distorts scale, and so shouldn't have a scale bar.

you caught me! i didnt mention that i changed some things from one map to the next, so it wasnt just a case of updating it, but i actually changed the orientation of the map, so the large and middle maps do not line up at all (N does not line up between one and the other), and the incorrect scale in the middle map is also something i had fixed after posting this version. the rhumb lines, i realised a long time after making the original large map, were incorrect for something of that scale, though my knowledge of them remains quite limited, though i never realsied that rhumb lines from different maps had to be consistent

regarding the graticules... the degrees of lat/long should be visible on the edges of the border. The closest thing i can think of is an Pseudoazimuthal (Hammer?) projection, though i didnt really want to base it off of a real-world projection. there's always going to be some amount of distortion on a map, though to be honest i didnt realise this was so off. Im hardly an expert on the subject (as im sure youve noticed :D ), though any other pointers you can give would be greatly appreceated. also can i just go on record saying that i hate projections! especially when trying to create a skin for a 3D globe, the distortions around the poles are a nightmare to iron out when switching between a distorted projection like mercatorto a skin for a 3D map and while i really wanted to create a globe for this world im close to giving up!


You seem to be doing curved text using Envelope Deformation. This gives the text a sort of squashed or smeared look. "Text on Path" is a better way to do this. It will shift and rotate each glyph to fit on the curve without distorting it.
i actually am writing the text on a path, though after the many comments saying the paths are too curved I've decided to tone them down.


thanks for the crit, any other feedback would be much appreceated

Hai-Etlik
05-29-2012, 08:19 PM
you caught me! i didnt mention that i changed some things from one map to the next, so it wasnt just a case of updating it, but i actually changed the orientation of the map, so the large and middle maps do not line up at all (N does not line up between one and the other), and the incorrect scale in the middle map is also something i had fixed after posting this version. the rhumb lines, i realised a long time after making the original large map, were incorrect for something of that scale, though my knowledge of them remains quite limited, though i never realsied that rhumb lines from different maps had to be consistent

Well, if you have one map that really is bearing preserving, and another that is also bearing preserving, and they have extents that overlap, then the bearings should be the same between them, unless something screwy has happened like the axis of the planet shifting dramatically. But if you're throwing out the old map then it's not a problem.


regarding the graticules... the degrees of lat/long should be visible on the edges of the border. The closest thing i can think of is an Pseudoazimuthal (Hammer?) projection, though i didnt really want to base it off of a real-world projection. there's always going to be some amount of distortion on a map, though to be honest i didnt realise this was so off. Im hardly an expert on the subject (as im sure youve noticed :D ), though any other pointers you can give would be greatly appreceated. also can i just go on record saying that i hate projections! especially when trying to create a skin for a 3D globe, the distortions around the poles are a nightmare to iron out when switching between a distorted projection like mercatorto a skin for a 3D map and while i really wanted to create a globe for this world im close to giving up!

Yes, there's always going to be distortion, and it's good that you know that as it's one of the things a lot of fantasy map makers with a background in graphics rather than geography have trouble understanding. That doesn't mean that they are all equally good for all situations. If you have a restricted extent, you want a projection that minimizes distortion within that particular extent. In this case, I'd probably go with a Conic. Equidistant Conic is simple and was known as far back as Ancient Greece, and I happen to have an Equidistant Conic Graticule Generator.

45272

Here's an SVG version so you can mess around with it. The two green parallels are the standard parallels where distortion is minimized. 45273


i actually am writing the text on a path, though after the many comments saying the paths are too curved I've decided to tone them down.

Well, the typeface isn't particularly readable, and it looks really squashed or stretched out. Though it's more an issue on the big map than on the new one. It's not the degree of curvature that's the problem. I've run text along a path through a sharp right angle and it's worked out fine.

45274

I've also noticed that your planet seems a bit big. Based on the scale and spacing of parallels on the new map, I get a radius of 12,356 km compared to Earth's radius of only 6,371 km. If it has a similar density to Earth, it should have close to twice Earth's surface gravity, 19.02 m/s². Assuming I didn't make any mistakes in my math.

vorropohaiah
05-30-2012, 02:41 AM
Yes, there's always going to be distortion, and it's good that you know that as it's one of the things a lot of fantasy map makers with a background in graphics rather than geography have trouble understanding. That doesn't mean that they are all equally good for all situations. If you have a restricted extent, you want a projection that minimizes distortion within that particular extent. In this case, I'd probably go with a Conic. Equidistant Conic is simple and was known as far back as Ancient Greece, and I happen to have an Equidistant Conic Graticule Generator.

thanks for that. If you don't mind my asking, what would make a conic projection better than others with this map? is it scale or the area that the map occupies on the globe (closer to poles as opposed to equator?)? also, the repost of my map with the red graticules seems too curved to my eyes, especially round the bottom, where they move south of the equator near the corners. also, the curve of the latitudes towards the north mean that I'll have to reshape the map as climate bands have changed considerably from what i had envisaged - the skin i have created for the globe is equirectangular and this portion of the map is currently fixed on it. is there an easy way of finding the projection best-suited to this region, or for calculating a conical projection based on the equirectangular projection i have created for the world map? also, Im just assuming that equirectangular is the best projection for a map designed as a skin for a 3d globe - using the 3d sphere command in photoshop. is this correct?


I've also noticed that your planet seems a bit big. Based on the scale and spacing of parallels on the new map, I get a radius of 12,356 km compared to Earth's radius of only 6,371 km. If it has a similar density to Earth, it should have close to twice Earth's surface gravity, 19.02 m/s². Assuming I didn't make any mistakes in my math. I'm still in the process of reviewing scale (things like mass and density aside, inconsistencies of which i will unapologetically waive due to the reality of the worlds' mythology). in a nutshell i want a large distance between cities and settlements (a means of fomenting corruption and a 'frontier' character) of course the world was not always like this, ending up like this after a diminishing of civilisation and culture, with many ruins peppering the hinterlands between settled areas. anyway, i digress. basically i wanted this region of the map to range from subtropical in the south, to arctic circle in the north, which covers around 10 deg - 65 deg lat, which plays a large role in determining the scale. any thoughts?

thanks again for the interest and any feedback

Gidde
05-30-2012, 07:23 AM
or for calculating a conical projection based on the equirectangular projection i have created for the world map?

G.Projector (http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gprojector/download_win.html) is a piece of free software that I've found to be really helpful for this purpose. It will project a map from equirectangular to several other projections (including equidistant conic iirc), and has some nice customizations of the projection output.

vorropohaiah
05-30-2012, 07:40 AM
G.Projector (http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gprojector/download_win.html) is a piece of free software that I've found to be really helpful for this purpose. It will project a map from equirectangular to several other projections (including equidistant conic iirc), and has some nice customizations of the projection output.

that deserves some rep :) thanks, ill have to try that once i get home from work. what formats can it save as?

Gidde
05-30-2012, 07:54 AM
It'll save as a flat image file (I always save as .png, so I'm not sure what other formats it offers).

vorropohaiah
05-30-2012, 07:57 AM
anything that works on PS is fine.

EDIT: just got this from the website:

G.Projector is a cross-platform application which can transform an equirectangular map image into one of over 90 global and regional map projections. Longitude-latitude gridlines and continental outlines may be drawn on the map, and the resulting image may be saved to disk in GIF, JPEG, PDF, PNG, PS or TIFF form.

thanks again

Hai-Etlik
05-30-2012, 08:16 AM
thanks for that. If you don't mind my asking, what would make a conic projection better than others with this map? is it scale or the area that the map occupies on the globe (closer to poles as opposed to equator?)? also, the repost of my map with the red graticules seems too curved to my eyes, especially round the bottom, where they move south of the equator near the corners. also, the curve of the latitudes towards the north mean that I'll have to reshape the map as climate bands have changed considerably from what i had envisaged - the skin i have created for the globe is equirectangular and this portion of the map is currently fixed on it. is there an easy way of finding the projection best-suited to this region, or for calculating a conical projection based on the equirectangular projection i have created for the world map? also, Im just assuming that equirectangular is the best projection for a map designed as a skin for a 3d globe - using the 3d sphere command in photoshop. is this correct?

Conic projections eliminate distortion along one or two parallels (Called "Standard Parallels"). The distortion is usually fairly low between those parallels (But is worse the further apart they are), and rises steeply outside them. This makes conics good for mid latitude maps over a fairly large extent, particularly if it spans a lot of longitude.

The rule of thumb is to make the standard parallels of a conic projection 1/7 of the way in from the top and bottom of the area you are interested in.

Parallels are curved, and that curvature increases as you approach the poles. Any projection that straightens them necessarily introduces a lot of distortion in the process. Think about looking at the graticule on a globe, the parallels near a pole are relatively small circles compared to the equator.

Equidistant Cylindrical (aka. Equirectangular) is what you want to run through 3D graphics software, but only as a final step. If you were to try to design a map that way, the symbols and text would be distorted, and you would have to draw the projection distortion into your features. I think you'd be better off making a set of overlapping maps in region specific projections (Pseudocylindrical or Transverse cylindrical projections would probably be the most efficient way to carve up the surface), and then projecting them all into Equidistant Cylindrical, and then merging them is probably your best bet for making a 3D globe. This is a fair bit of work and will probably require using proper GIS software.

Also, I realised I made a mistake in scaling the conic graticule to the map, and the resulting planetary radius.

45289


I'm still in the process of reviewing scale (things like mass and density aside, inconsistencies of which i will unapologetically waive due to the reality of the worlds' mythology). in a nutshell i want a large distance between cities and settlements (a means of fomenting corruption and a 'frontier' character) of course the world was not always like this, ending up like this after a diminishing of civilisation and culture, with many ruins peppering the hinterlands between settled areas. anyway, i digress. basically i wanted this region of the map to range from subtropical in the south, to arctic circle in the north, which covers around 10 deg - 65 deg lat, which plays a large role in determining the scale. any thoughts?

How far apart things need to be would depend a lot on the transportation/communication technology and infrastructure available, and even on non-obvious things like social structures which hinder or promote travel and communication. That large inland sea with loads of spindly arms is actually a severe hindrance to breaking things up as it provides an excellent transport corridor.

vorropohaiah
05-31-2012, 12:47 AM
so, i downloaded this programme (http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gproj...nload_win.html) and, after some problems getting 64-bit java installed on my laptop, managed to get some maps generated. this is a very fun programme to use and if you have an equirectangular world map i'd suggest using this as it gives you familiar perspectives on your design - and really shows just how messed up the mercator projection really is at the poles :)

anyway, I settled with an azimuthal equal area, equidistant conic (which are both very similar); orthographic (centered on the Inner Sea; and a Wagner IX (which i thought is easy to look at, if that makes any sense). I still need to do some work on the original equirectangular map to solve the warping in the poles after applying the spherical projections, though i'm pretty happy with the results (though i wish the giss programme would work with higher res images, but that's a minor gripe on an otherwise great little programme

Ill now import one of the first 2 into photoshop and start from scratch building up new layers... so the toil begins anew :)

EDIT: not sure about this, but i think this thread is probably better-off in a WIP forum. can a mod please move the thread?

Hai-Etlik
05-31-2012, 01:51 AM
so, i downloaded this programme (http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gproj...nload_win.html) and, after some problems getting 64-bit java installed on my laptop, managed to get some maps generated. this is a very fun programme to use and if you have an equirectangular world map i'd suggest using this as it gives you familiar perspectives on your design - and really shows just how messed up the mercator projection really is at the poles :)

anyway, I settled with an azimuthal equal area, equidistant conic (which are both very similar); orthographic (centered on the Inner Sea; and a Wagner IX (which i thought is easy to look at, if that makes any sense). I still need to do some work on the original equirectangular map to solve the warping in the poles after applying the spherical projections, though i'm pretty happy with the results (though i wish the giss programme would work with higher res images, but that's a minor gripe on an otherwise great little programme

Ill now import one of the first 2 into photoshop and start from scratch building up new layers... so the toil begins anew :)

EDIT: not sure about this, but i think this thread is probably better-off in a WIP forum. can a mod please move the thread?

That orthographic projection is showing some pinching around the poles. (Orthographic can sort of be thought of as a view from space) You might want to try to fix that in the source map before you do anything else. In equidistant cylindrical/equirectangular the high latitudes should look "Stretched" horizontally otherwise those same areas will be "pinched when you reproject them. Try an azimuthal projection centred on each pole to get a clear look. Since its an issue of shape, Stereographic in particular would be a good choice (It's an azimuthal projection that preserves shapes, but distorts sizes).

vorropohaiah
05-31-2012, 02:08 AM
That orthographic projection is showing some pinching around the poles. (Orthographic can sort of be thought of as a view from space) You might want to try to fix that in the source map before you do anything else. In equidistant cylindrical/equirectangular the high latitudes should look "Stretched" horizontally otherwise those same areas will be "pinched when you reproject them. Try an azimuthal projection centred on each pole to get a clear look. Since its an issue of shape, Stereographic in particular would be a good choice (It's an azimuthal projection that preserves shapes, but distorts sizes).

yep, as i mentioned, my next port of call is the equirectangular map to sort out the pinching. I'll likely stick to the conic projection, though will play around with the standard parallels a bit to get something im happy with.

Hai-Etlik
05-31-2012, 02:56 AM
yep, as i mentioned, my next port of call is the equirectangular map to sort out the pinching. I'll likely stick to the conic projection, though will play around with the standard parallels a bit to get something im happy with.

Sorry, I'm not sure how I missed that.

Gidde
05-31-2012, 08:28 AM
Moved to the WIP forum per OP's request.

vorropohaiah
06-01-2012, 01:28 PM
so I've gone back to the drawing board (well, my tablet, at least) and come up with a new equirectangular map of the world, trying hard to avoid pinching at the poles. this is what I've come up with (rivers only appear in regions that ive made a decent account of history/climate/geography):

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/globeskin.jpg
It's little different to the older version, though I've made the 'Inner Sea' area proportionately larger (not as easy as it finds) to better-fit in with current world-building attempts. I ran the map through the NISS software and came up with three vertical perspective maps (one each for the north/south poles and one centred on the 'Inner Sea'). the poles will form the base for a pair of matching maps I'd like to do, detailing the poles.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/innersea-verticalperspective.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/south-verticalperspective.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/north-verticalperspective.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/innersea-equidistantconic.jpg

I also made an equidistant conical projection that became the base for a fresh map that I started work on this afternoon. So far I've only gone over the coastal areas and put them through a mask, with a gradient stroke to create some definition. I've also thought of 2 different borders - well actually just one but with 2 different chequer effects - the first has a cheque effect that is consistent with the graticule scale, with each box measuring 1 degree. the second is just decorative (though with each box 1" I can be used for scale purposes, once the scale marker has been added. Please let me know what you think!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/border_1.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/border_2.jpg

I also changed the font for the nations, which is now a Castellar font, though I'll be using different ones for cities and towns, and features and formations, respectively. though i havent decided quite what yet...

any C&C is greatly appreciated, thanks

Gidde
06-01-2012, 01:32 PM
That's looking pretty good!

Eilathen
06-02-2012, 08:24 AM
Wow! Just wow. I totally dig this - i love the continent-shapes (i know, i said it already...but it needs repeating ;) ). Very much looking forward to the progress of this WIP.

cereth
06-02-2012, 10:05 AM
Looking quite impressive! I think my jaw just hit the floor. The landforms are very interesting and realistic.

vorropohaiah
06-02-2012, 01:05 PM
so i spent some more time today, finishing off the border (i went for the first choice if anyone was wondering :p) and continued with a bit of texturing, numbering the graticules, and adding the rivers and trying to figure out the nation borders with this new perspective.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/Untitled-1.jpg

Gidde
06-03-2012, 02:07 PM
Looking good! The only thing that's bothering me is the labels. They look stretched (although that could be the font) and they really ought to be curved/angled/something, imho. I'm also generally not a fan of underlines, but that could just be because I spend so much time on the web that underline==link in my brain, hardwired at this point.

vorropohaiah
06-04-2012, 12:50 AM
Looking good! The only thing that's bothering me is the labels. They look stretched (although that could be the font) and they really ought to be curved/angled/something, imho. I'm also generally not a fan of underlines, but that could just be because I spend so much time on the web that underline==link in my brain, hardwired at this point.

Do you think they should be curved with the graticules or the terrain? I was planning on the former but thought the higher latitudes might be a bit too curved. I believe the font is stretched at 120% though that was just because I thought they looked better... Maybe not? The underline is because a bold font 'distorted' too much

Gidde
06-04-2012, 10:17 AM
I'd curve/angle them with the terrain. It ends up looking more natural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

vorropohaiah
06-07-2012, 03:40 PM
I'd curve/angle them with the terrain. It ends up looking more natural.
I'm trying out orienting the text with the 'horizontal' graticules - not really traditional though i thought I'd try it out. I don't mind the results and think its' a bit more characterful than plain horizontal, though I'm still experimenting (same with the font itself. I tried Castellar and Imprint MT Shadow, which i thought looked cartographical, but decided against them in the end). suggestions are welcome :)


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/NEW-innersea-map.jpg

Here's a new iteration of the map. I discarded the coastline I had generated through the projection generator and repalced it with the original one and then painstakingly went through the graticules one-by-one, stretching them out and placing them on the equirectangluar base map (I'm sure there's another generator somewhere tpo do that but ah well...).

I normally like to come up with nations' histories before plotting cities/capitals/features in the map, though that was taking too long (each region was winding up with a 10,000+ word-history which was taking too long - I'm getting impatient to get the map done - i can always update it once I amend regional histories :p I finally settled on a border design, and once the 'boring' part of adding all the fiddly regions and text is done i can start with the fun stuff - colouring it in, adding texture and grunge effects (though I'm not sure i want it being too colourful,and I'll probably settle for something more 'realistic - 18th century-esque. we'll see :)

the attachment is a bit more detailed than the embedded pic, though i had to resize if from 300 dpi down to 72, so its lost a lot of detail

Lyandra
06-07-2012, 06:17 PM
Great work on the latest version of your map, I like the new orientation of the text, it looks good to me.
I should have known that you had whole histories of the nations you were mapping in your head! Hope you will share them too. ;) Anyway, I'm glad that you decided to fill in the blanks later, the map is worth seeing. :)

vorropohaiah
06-12-2012, 10:17 AM
to show that im still working on this... a snap of some quick mountain/tree sketches to try and figure out a style im happy with. I'll keep on trying...

note the dead trees; horsetails (those crappy oddly stacked-umbrella-like-things under the trees) and the mesas... Elyden is a dying and harsh world so im trying to convey that with these. im also thinking of making the map look more hand-drawn and as such have applied brush spatter effects to most lines and will probably be overpainting the land outline and rivers too. ill probably draw up a few A4 sheets of mountains, trees and other features and scan those for use as brushes on the map.

Im not sure whether or not to keep this sketchy look ar to at least try and refine them a bit (maybe with a fine liner pen?)
C&C please!


Edit, added another WIP pic
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/IMAG0033.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/IMAG0034.jpg

Lyandra
06-12-2012, 01:21 PM
I really like those mountains! The mesas and dead trees look fine too. I think one usually has to mess with the style a little till he finds something he is really satisfied with. That's at least how it is usually with me. Takes trial and error till I get something I really like. ;)

arsheesh
06-12-2012, 06:30 PM
Very nice! I like the sketchy look.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

vorropohaiah
06-13-2012, 08:09 AM
I really like those mountains! The mesas and dead trees look fine too.


Very nice! I like the sketchy look.

thanks. so, i finished off the first A4 page and went over the pencil work with subtle rapidoliner pens (0.2, 0.5 and 2mm sizes) and have started work on the next, which will be odder shapes and mesas and buttes etc to sprinkle around certain areas. im also trying to figure out how best to place the maps on the page - and will probably settle on a darken blend mode with another layer underneath where ill apply some highlighs.

I've attached the jpg if anyones interested in using them (they can easily be cropped and used as brushes)
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/mountainbrushes.jpg

Chashio
06-15-2012, 01:46 PM
Wow. This whole project, wow. =) Reps your way.

I'm interested to see how you incorporate your mountains and trees on the maps. I have trouble with forests.

One nitpick: The labels in the lower right corner (Molachari Desert, etc) seem too stretched horizontally, too flat vertically, and/or too warped for the space, which is more broad and empty.

vorropohaiah
06-15-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm interested to see how you incorporate your mountains and trees on the maps. I have trouble with forests.
I know what you mean. i hate trees and have trouble making forests look convincing, though ill likely go for a bevel/emboss pattern lightly painted over forested regions. luckily (for me and not the inhabitants) its a dying world so there are only 2 large forested regions with a more relatively tiny wooded regions scattered throughout.


One nitpick: The labels in the lower right corner (Molachari Desert, etc) seem too stretched horizontally, too flat vertically, and/or too warped for the space, which is more broad and empty.
yeah that was part of my attemps at making the word stretch across the region. ill likely add more spaces between the 2 words in an attempt to keep the stretch more manageable and will likely tone down on the bendiness of the words.

thanks

Hai-Etlik
06-15-2012, 05:21 PM
yeah that was part of my attemps at making the word stretch across the region. ill likely add more spaces between the 2 words in an attempt to keep the stretch more manageable and will likely tone down on the bendiness of the words

Try increasing the spacing between all the letters rather than just the words, and don't just press space, use the proper spacing controls if you want it to look good and be easy to manage. If your software doesn't support that, try using Inkscape to make your labels. It's fairly simple to load up an image, position your labels over top, hide the base image, and export the labels as an image you can load up in your raster editor. This map uses a lot of spacing control and was done in Inkscape: http://www.cartographersguild.com/album.php?albumid=3281&attachmentid=39598

vorropohaiah
06-16-2012, 08:29 AM
Try increasing the spacing between all the letters rather than just the words, and don't just press space, use the proper spacing controls if you want it to look good and be easy to manage. If your software doesn't support that, try using Inkscape to make your labels. It's fairly simple to load up an image, position your labels over top, hide the base image, and export the labels as an image you can load up in your raster editor. This map uses a lot of spacing control and was done in Inkscape: http://www.cartographersguild.com/album.php?albumid=3281&attachmentid=39598

I'm using PS and, depending on the text, use a horizontal scale of 100% (default) to 350% (which stretches text as well as spacing, and a kerning of 0 (normal) to 200, the latter of which is used on those large areas where I want to stretch the word to fill out as much of it as possible; though generally I only apply horizontal scale to larger areas where I want to stretch the text to fill the available space.

how would you recommend labelling large areas otherwise?

cereth
06-16-2012, 09:05 AM
Really wonderful stuff. Great symbols.

Hai-Etlik
06-16-2012, 03:20 PM
I'm using PS and, depending on the text, use a horizontal scale of 100% (default) to 350% (which stretches text as well as spacing, and a kerning of 0 (normal) to 200, the latter of which is used on those large areas where I want to stretch the word to fill out as much of it as possible; though generally I only apply horizontal scale to larger areas where I want to stretch the text to fill the available space.

how would you recommend labelling large areas otherwise?

I'd recommend not stretching. Try only using the kerning option.

Schwarzkreuz
06-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Welcome to the Lands of the Mountain OCD.

Ok joke beside, those Mountains looks great, i will adapt some forms that i still miss in ny collection.
This whole project is Realy stunning.

Eberict
06-19-2012, 04:03 AM
Those are some very handsome mountains with good variety! I also really like the work I've seen done on your main map. It feels like a stunningly huge world and very overwhelming, which I think is appropriate. Really would like to know more about the nations on it; there are so many!

vorropohaiah
06-19-2012, 05:26 AM
Welcome to the Lands of the Mountain OCD.

Ok joke beside, those Mountains looks great, i will adapt some forms that i still miss in ny collection.
This whole project is Realy stunning.


Those are some very handsome mountains with good variety! I also really like the work I've seen done on your main map. It feels like a stunningly huge world and very overwhelming, which I think is appropriate. Really would like to know more about the nations on it; there are so many!

thanks :) I have quite a bit of history written for the world and regions (particularly those with regions marked out on the map) though am looking for something that encompasses the nature of the world to post.

the gist of Elyden is its a world created by Two-and-Twenty Demiurges (worker gods, and always spoken as two-and-twenty, never 22 :p) who shaped the world and the cosmos with their hands. to cut a long and purple-prose-filled story short, they created the perfect world but continued shaping it as it was the only thing they could do. they were punished for their hubris by their father and stripped of their greater powers and consigned the largest of the planets they created -elyden. the mortal races were divided and grew around each of the demiurges, taking their traits. some of the demiurges hated the mortals, seeking to return to divinity, though others saw the nature of their punishment and became leaders of the mortals. many (including the crazed artificer god Vorropohaiah ;) ) grew insane trying to cope with their loss of divinity, with their dreams and thoughts corrupting the land. those with worshippers grew strong, and those without weakened, falling into a torpid coma-like state, with their deranged nightmares corrupting the laws of nature. others forcibly attracted followers - through slavery.

basically this is the world left in the wake of the time of the demiurges. most of them lie dead, fossilised, their dreaming bodies bringing madness and corruption to the world, though a few remain in some form of 'concious' state, the most powerful being Rachanael, 17th of the Demiurges; who is the living-deity (the so called iron deity) of the Korachani empire that has come to dominate the Inner Sea

Lukc
06-19-2012, 05:39 AM
I'm using PS and, depending on the text, use a horizontal scale of 100% (default) to 350% (which stretches text as well as spacing, and a kerning of 0 (normal) to 200, the latter of which is used on those large areas where I want to stretch the word to fill out as much of it as possible; though generally I only apply horizontal scale to larger areas where I want to stretch the text to fill the available space.

how would you recommend labelling large areas otherwise?

Now, you are about to learn how to kern easily and quickly in Adobe applications! Alt + arrow keys. That's right. That's all there is to it. Select the glyphs or lines you want to kern and play. Alt + left/right increases or decreases the spacing between individual letters, while Alt + up/down increases or decreases the distance between lines of text. I hope I've saved you a bit of time there!

In another note - this is an impressive project, but I would recommend you think about using paths for country borders - that way you can easily change them to different types, like dot-dash-dot or something. Right now they look a biiiit to close to the rivers for my taste.

Finally, one more note - I find your headwaters too ... plump and rounded. I know it's a result of the blending effects you're using for your rivers, but it's something that would make the map look much cooler if it they tapered more.

However, all in all, a very good map and wonderful project. Keep going, I want to see the finished map!

vorropohaiah
06-19-2012, 07:42 AM
Now, you are about to learn how to kern easily and quickly in Adobe applications! Alt + arrow keys. That's right. That's all there is to it. Select the glyphs or lines you want to kern and play. Alt + left/right increases or decreases the spacing between individual letters, while Alt + up/down increases or decreases the distance between lines of text. I hope I've saved you a bit of time there!

thanks though I already use that :) great timesaver though


In another note - this is an impressive project, but I would recommend you think about using paths for country borders - that way you can easily change them to different types, like dot-dash-dot or something. Right now they look a biiiit to close to the rivers for my taste.

this never occured to me, Ill certainly try that out though truth be told, im changing them round so often that these are little more than place-holders, so I'll likely use the paths towards the end.

Chashio
06-19-2012, 11:27 AM
That history is intriguing.

Unrelated question... What's your computer have for guts that lets it so easily work on huge image files (I reread your first post and nearly choked on my coffee at " 4 x 6' ")?

Klaus van der Kroft
06-19-2012, 11:41 AM
Oh my, oh my, oh my!

I don't know how I missed checking this map. I'm simultaneously awe-struck, beffudled, gobsmacked, and decombobulated by your work. Truly fantastical.

I'd rep you twice, but the system doesn't let me.

Well done, good sir, well done.

vorropohaiah
06-20-2012, 08:04 AM
Unrelated question... What's your computer have for guts that lets it so easily work on huge image files (I reread your first post and nearly choked on my coffee at " 4 x 6' ")?

funny... i never said it lets me work easily! in fact its a simple HP compaq presario CQ61 laptop that has close to 0 graphics card (anything to do with 3D it has to render in software. crashes are common when i do this) however i've been able to up the RAM to 8gb (best I could manage at the moment) which has been a huge help with PS. the original incarnation of the map was in PSB format due to the size bust load/save times were excruciatingly slow (upwards of 15 mins and im not joking) so i managed to change size and res and tend to merge layers as soon as possible to decrease size (though that has its own setbacks). other than that i have no problems, other than applying large filters and effects to the entire canvas. I also have a dedicated drive of 50 gb for scratch disks, which speeds things up (unless i fill them up...)

the size of the new map (See latest wip pic for the one im on about) is 41" x 61" at 300 dpi. id normally be working at something like 100 - 150 but this is intended for print so i have to work at 300 dpi. that makes a huge difference too

Chashio
06-20-2012, 10:31 AM
Ouch. I rescind easily. You put up with much more than I could. I bow to your patience. Forty One by Sixty One feet?! Are you printing it on a rug? :P

vorropohaiah
06-20-2012, 10:45 AM
my bad. " and ' keys are inverted on my keyboard i keep on getting them mixed up... 41" x 61" :p

wow, id love to see a pc that can cope with 41' x 61' lol

Chashio
06-20-2012, 11:10 AM
Oh, okay. Haha! I know how that is. I have a keyboard that mashes together the shift and up arrow keys. I'd love to figure out a way to reprogram it. Not likely.

vorropohaiah
06-24-2012, 10:57 AM
Gah! my tablet pen broke today halfway through working on the map. i tried changing the nib, but nothing (though the buttons and the eraser end still work) So i ordered a new one. I cant justify ordering a new tablet (upgrade!) as I just this last week got an android tablet (asus transformer 300 to anyone interested - love it!), so i dont want to spurge on too much at the same time. a replacement pen will do for now...

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/NEW-innersea-map-1.jpg

Anywho, attached is the slow progress on the map. a few more regions are mapped out and a rough test on subtle texture (fibres and embossed render > clouds). I also started applying the new mountains to it (open the attachment for better vies of the mountains), though i shant be carrying on until i receive the new pen as work on a laptop with no mouse and just cant use a scrollpad to work on PS (its slow enough as it is!) I doubt the colour/texture will remain the same, though it's a start. on another note, anyone interested in the nations can take a look at this table (regions amrked in bold have finished histories. welll, as finished as they can be in an evolving world...):


Aethios: aiklah (humanoids with feather-like growths on their heads, backs and arms) ruins. A central mountain with radiating rivers. Still bare-bones, needs a lot of work.
Ahrishen: done, though needs some updating. the region is a buffer-zone between west and east, with western crusades and religious propoganda being a constant threat throughout the Korachani empire's dominance.
Alam Bethyl: some cities and areas have names, but little else. i have a very cold celtic-like theme in mind for this place with wooden demon-masks used by leaders - shamanistic sorcerers.
Almagest: has a pretty detailed history though its a very old version that needs to be changed. its since become an independant entity (no longer part of Korachan) and the eponymous city - once a steampunky dystopian place of 8,000,000 bodies) has been toned down in size and scope and is now quite different; suffering after a devastating plague left the main city largely empty - its voluminous ruins haunted by degenrates, freaks and the broken survivors of the plague.
Anubia: a vast desert region with little true backstory yet, though its few oasis cities are enticing and i look forward to detailing them.
Aquariia: little more than the name exists for this region, and the name is likely to change slightly by the time i get round to it (though i do like it, particularly the double-i at the end)
Arkos: the most-recently detailed region, spanning 4 consecutive cultures of which Arkos is the latest, this region is fresh and needs little additions for now. A nobility that is descended from the first crude imperial vat-born clones (adonis-like figures, with hairless alabaster skin) they now indulge in incest to keep their biology untainted. the region recently fragmented.
Artalscelli: Like Hoamm, this region is an offshoot of Korachan and a recent addition to the world. history is largely complete though needs updating to reflect the Sundering of Korachan into 2-states in 3075 RM, which i only recently devised.
Azazem: i just need to collate the many bullet-points and snippets of history and expand them into a full history. Azazem was once a fertile region, and provided much of the foodstuff for the empire, though centuries of soil mismanagement and climate change (including lowering sea-levels) has left the place (like much of the world) devastated; little more than a wasteland, though it has since adapted to the changes, being the chief producer of dross - a reconstituted meaty pulp thats made from all sorts of stuff you'd rather not know about, including human flesh (oops...).
Ba'ath: Suma'ya was once a part of Ba'ath, though i only recently divided the two. both are complete, history-wise - ba'ath has a history of penumbral corruption and culturally, hates it, giving rise to a caste of Set (sorcerers) that use the penumbra to understand it and ultimately defeat it. a gross generalisation, of course, but thats the gist of it.
the Broken Lands: a series of cliffy-islands resulting from a cataclysmic devastation in Khamid in 101 RM, this region has little history following that point, so it will be interesting to create the various disparate cultures that evolved from the common ancestor (Khamid) and to see how they diverged since that time.
Cyhlagharr: oghur (ogre) lands. lots of cyclo/hydrocephaly (if youre squamish, dont look those words up). looking forward to fleshing this place out!
Erebeth: just a name for now!
Gatha: a frontier city-state, attracting many half-bloods (the scions of otherworlders [angels and demons] and mortals). the place is a melting-pot of cultures and beliefs, colourful, chaotic and largely lawless. one of my favourite cities.
the Growing Mountains (Mulciber): 30+ disparate tribes of 'barbarians'. most are little more than a name. a handful have a vague clichéd character that needs expanding. this will take a while to get done, though luckily their histories are localised.
the Hareshk: 8 closely-tied nations with roots in the genepools of many different ancient peoples, this will be time-consuming but interesting place to expand on. i have little other than recent events and spattering of ancient history (initial settlement and colonisation etc) though have a strong feeling of white-marble/byzantine/angelic-motifs. as good a-start as any.
Hoamm: a relatively-recent addition to the world, this was a natural offshoot of Korachan. once used as a prison-island, it was largely forgotten with the meteoric rise of the Korachani empire and became its own entity. history needs slight updating to bring it in line with the new Sundered empire i recently (foolishly) devised.
Hololach: just a name, for now.
J'Thana: i recently tore this region away from N'rach and made it its own place. originally it was a part of N'rach (calling them spider-men is doing them a great disservice. think this picture (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yq3dz3zpiz0c2at/aanth%20-%20N%27rach.jpg) - they were once a pure mortal race, though were penumbrally-corrupted), the only region of that entire nation to treat humans as little more than slaves, where a mercantile caste rose. it eventually overthrew the aanth overlords, whose roles are now reversed.
Juras: i have very little done here, other than links with Korachan and Parthis.
Karakhas: once-barbarians, though still blood-moon worshipping 'tribal' culture, lots of riots under Korachani rule. I have lots of tidbits ready for this region and with the scattered encyclopaedia entries i have ready I have the basis for a strong history of rebellion and martial pride and blood sacrifices.
Kaspia: with a name that isnt even visible on the map yet, there is little history created from here, other than a harsh angelic sovereign-deity and lammashtu-motifs.
Ketesh: the epicurean city. thats it, but I do like my sodom/gomorrah cities :D
Khamid: this is a leftover form an older world (Sola) i had devised. I ported it over to the Elyden setting though it needs polishing and retrofitting into the new world. vague ancient middle-eastern influcences, a magical dynastic history that is now little mroe than a bitter memory.
Khitai: little more than a name, this region is harsh; the north made up of jagged mountains and the south largely an iron (rust) wasteland. it is home to the abyssal templars. will be fun learning what this region brings to my world.
Khuraur: once part of Karakhas though since-sundered. thats all i have.
Kolchis: (aka the grey forest). now Kolchis (and Alam Bethyl, for that matter) are on the 70th parallel, i might have to reduce the forestyness of the place that i had envisioned - a creepy celtic/shamanistic vibe. certainly not good guys. obviously a harsh place to live. perhaps some geothermal vents to make climate a bit more manageable?
Korachan: the less i think about this place the better... the timeline of this nations also includes the timelines of those nations its subjugated or conquered over its 4-millenia existence... other than that i know more about Korachan than most other regions yet-to-be detailed. the home of technarcana, biomechana and the dark sorcery known as penumbrism.
Laaskha: a decent timeline and history exists for here but for the time being its just bullet-points and snippets in various encyclopaedic entries.
Lidea: Next on the list to receive the history treatment. still not sure where to take this place, though i know the ancient history so ill just move from there and piece the tidbits of history i have to that.
Lyridia: ruled by a sybilline prophetess who serves nine-catatonic mummified abulia (whose collective dreams feed her visions), this is a sparsely-populated region with two distinct culture-centres - its limestone and mudbrick towns centered around the region of Iblis, and troglodytic tribes that populate caves around the Lythi mountains who worship the sybil and her augurs as deities.
Lyridia Dhai: needs little updating
Mharokk: perhaps a name change is in order, though i still like the moroccan influence (stucco walls, domes, vaulted markets, hot climate, rich myth). thats about all i have so far, but a decent start.
Naareth: an interesting region - matriarchal society where men are little more than second-class citizens; workers and a 'lucky' few are sex-slaves to the monstrous breeding Maphrians (think corpulent hags whose sole purpose is to birth new slaves; the task such a strain on the body that its enhanced with grotesque technarcana.) this femme-centric culture has lots of tidbits of history that I've yet to evolve into a full history.
Nakhe: the oriental place - a clichéd pastiche of Japanese, Thai and Chinese culture and myth, this needs a big update, though there's little written about it yet. a strong honour'code, patriarchic dynastic reigns and a spiritual (if not esoteric) link with nature are things id like to base this region around.
Narthel: the first nation to receive the updated history treatment, Narthels history is exhaustive and goes back to the previous age and 'forced' me to elaborate on the extinct cultures of this area -something ive done with all other regions to get the full history works since. i do enjoy this, but its time-consuming.
N'rach: the spider-man place (which are really called aanth). penumbral mutants stabilised into a 'race', of sorts. they breed and capture disfigured human slaves. once-envisioned as a true nation, theyre now little more than degenerate savages, with a couple of 'cities' (gossamer fortresses built over expansive birthing pits) serving as anchors for them on the map. the rest of this region is penumbral wasteland.
New Pelasgos: brand new place. 0-history. likely needs a new name too
Ophiussa: much like most of the nations in the west of the map this region is little more than a name and a vague clichéd concept - snakes. much work needs to be done!
Paraiya: tribal people, 3-different regions, totemic patron-'spirits' which determine their cultures. a rich monarchic history that is now shattered, like teh ebon palace that sits forlorn in the centre of the fallen kingdom. The paraiyans are a shadow of the kingdom that once was (much-like ethiopian empire)
Parthis (Parthia): lots of history detailed for here but its old and needs a big revision. this is one of my favourate regions and was, at one time (in-world) a rival of Korachan; with technarcane constructs and manufactories to rival those of the empire.
Pelasgos: one of the earliest places i named so it has quite a few snippets of history though nothing truly unifying or characterising, so ill need to brainstorm some ideas for this region.
Rhamia: an old imperial colony that was abandoned and became its own nation, having problems with penumbral corruption and 'forest' clans to the north-west. needs little updating.
Rhinocoloura: massifs, rivers, ancient ruins, a harsh land and dour/stoic people. this is all i have for this region other than a kickass name (at least i think so :p)
Sabia: not even marked on the map - one of the nations north of Temur. i have lots of cultural tidbits done for this region (and its neighbour Kaspia). but little history - they will be linked.
Sagittaria: links with Tahab, migration, slaves in exile. Thats about it.
Saragos: a reltively recent addition to the world - an offshoot of Venthir, following Hetepheres (the sphinx-queen of venthir; last of her kind)'s exiling of technarcanists following her increasing paranoia (she is more machine now, than man, as obi wan kenobi once said). little needs to be changed here (unless the forthcoming Naarethi history makes me...)
Sarastro: alongside Venthir, one of my favourite nations with a detailed history to match - black-magic-wielding dynasties who loved their slaves and ziggurats; gave way to subjugated people dominated by Sathep the risen (the worlds' only liche). Why is it i like the deserty places so much?)
Shotha: a new nation i added after coming up with a big civil war in the empire (the artifex wars that left Almagest an independent nation). needs history.
Siriphagos: started out (in my mind) as a bandit stronghold but evolved over time (in-world and in my head) into a trading powerhouse, forming the hub of trade in this arid region of Elyden - the backbone of the so-called salt-road. other than his it has little history and needs expanding.
Sour: pirates and traders of the rpoiling sea. Thats about it. needs fleshing out some more, methinks!
Skaros: a vague timeline and historical outline exists for here, though needs collecting into a coherent format. Its one of the oldest nations to become part of Korachan, thoug hwas sundered following the artifex wars, with its northern lands falling under Almagesti control. the remaining territories became unstable following this time.
Soleyn Territories: nothing exists here but the name. suggestions? LOL!
Stolas: creepy emaciated birdmen (think tall gaunt skeletal-looking men with horrid beaky faces, disfigurement and spike-like feathers on their backs and heads and elbows. gross) that worship a totemic remnant of a long-dead demiurge. have a basic outline for this region though no true history. this will be a good one.
Suma'Ya: i recently created this region, sundering Ba'ath into two - Ba'ath in the north and Suma'ya in the south. both are up-to-date.
Tahab: i have some broad history done for this nation, but its old (both in-world and in real-life) so it needs updating
Tarati: a city-state ruled by a 1st generation halfblood around the largest known oasis in Anubia.
Tartak: horse riders that at some point was subjugated by Kroachan and Parthis.
Temuja (Temur): interestingly, considering this was the first place i named and the one I've researched the most (heavy mongolian influences) I have very little history created for this region, but lots of cultural character (pretty much the opposite of many other regions). Ill enjoy this one as itll take me back to my first experiences in the world of Elyden. almost 8-years ago now.
Thrace: allie/vassal of Parthis. oghur wars and lots of hydro/cyclocephaly.
Tzallrach (Char Mathi): the savannah/lion place (many region names and cultural features here are derived from real-world leonine names, like Aslan).with this now located between the 35 - 25 parallel and in the rainshadow of a mountain, i either need to change the geography to keep the flavour or change the flavour to keep the geography. this region is linked with Venthir so anything i do here will likely impact that regions' history.
Vaalk: cultural links with Laaskha. all i know is that this is a militocratic culture.
Varr: a wasted land, its resources exploited by the korachani empire over 1000 years, leaving it a dead place, marked by open-cast mines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_cast_mining), empty quarries and dust-filled plains overfarmed to oblivion. as though that were not enough, the bitter maddened Demiurge Vorropohaiah dwells in unending pits of Carceri beneath this area... the history is ready for this region though I've since changed much of the great history of this age (the largest change being the sundering of the Korachani empire into two around 300 years before the present). plus on re-reading I've realised its lacking much of the character i had in mind for this region, so needs more oomph, particularly in the antique ages.
Venthir: dry, harsh land, though rich from its many slave-worked gold mines. ruled by the crazy sphinx queen, hetepheres the strangler, this is one of my favourite regions, with the most expansive history. i do like me a crazy sphinx-bitch queen.
Virahan: brand new - a nation splintered from ahrishen some time ago. i know little beyond the time of its fracturing form ahrishen. so what i come up with for here will likely impact neighbouring nations
Zion (sarastroan Zion): ancient golems whichform the centre of a mystical cult based on mistranslated ancient magical lore, now occupied and subjugated by Sarastro. i like this region and it needs little updating for now.


wow! more places that i realise, come to think of it.

Jaxilon
06-24-2012, 11:15 AM
Man that is cool. It's just so massive which is awesome in itself. Great work so far.

vorropohaiah
06-27-2012, 12:08 PM
Man that is cool. It's just so massive which is awesome in itself. Great work so far.

thanks :) so, ive been messing around with colours, trying to come up with as style i like. the psd is far from complete (at the top of my head - need to fix the symbols, do a couple of cartouches, fix any region-names that have been too stretched...) and this was just a mock-up so to speak, though i thought id share it. i dont think ill veer too far off these colours, though will certainly be toning down the grunge and will try look for a higher-res paper texture as this one became rather blurred after scaling it up.

here's a regional 'detailed' pic, with the whole map in the attachment:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/NEW-innersea-map-colour-detail.jpg

Edit: to anyone looking at progress on the mountains, the mountains visible are mostly 50% done - still needing highlights - for a taste of what the finished mountains will likely look like look at the large region in the s-e quarter of the map, surrounding the Anubian desert.

Chashio
06-27-2012, 12:44 PM
*s l o w whistle* P r e t t y! 8P

Edit: Ooh, noticed a little something... SW of Tarati, in the Anubian desert... It's difficult to read the city label (Anubis?) that's covered by the projection line. And, out of curiosity, how did you apply the color?

Bogie
06-27-2012, 01:03 PM
Excellent map, hope you can find a better parchment, the pixilation is unfortunate.

There are some great high res large parchment image on deviantArt, I really like the ones from StruckDumb. This link will take you there.

http://struckdumb.deviantart.com/gallery/845169?offset=72

jfrazierjr
06-27-2012, 02:06 PM
You have what I assume to be political borders which are drawn over top of your mountains. IMHO, this makes for a bad aesthetic. I would personally suggest moving the lines to conform to the contours of the terrain instead. Stolas is an easy to find example, but it happens all over the place. Outside of that, a quick glance gives me a warm fuzzy that this is is a great map....

Lyandra
06-27-2012, 05:25 PM
Great choice of colors. I'm eagerly waiting to see more. :)

vorropohaiah
06-28-2012, 02:53 AM
Great choice of colors. I'm eagerly waiting to see more. :)

*s l o w whistle* P r e t t y! 8P

Edit: Ooh, noticed a little something... SW of Tarati, in the Anubian desert... It's difficult to read the city label (Anubis?) that's covered by the projection line. And, out of curiosity, how did you apply the color?
Yep thats it. too blatantly taken from our world? theres quite a few places like that scattered around the map.

The colours... i used an action that i came up with for making old paper and just made a blue clipping mask for the seas/rivers and brown clipping mask for the land. here's a screenshot of the action after its been completed and a page made with the action:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/Untitled-3.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/page-3-1.jpg

the clipped layers have a reveal-all mask with clouds and levels applied on top to produce the different coloured stains. the burn and noise layers are pretty self-explanatory though they are set to soft light and 50% grey fill (which becomes transparent when set to soft light). and then the burn/noise are applied manually. another layer on top called stains is then used to apply brush stains onto.

if anyone's interested i can post a proper tutorial for the page technique



Excellent map, hope you can find a better parchment, the pixilation is unfortunate.

There are some great high res large parchment image on deviantArt, I really like the ones from StruckDumb. This link will take you there.

http://struckdumb.deviantart.com/gallery/845169?offset=72
thanks for that, the results a re pretty similar to the one i made above, though what im looking for are more in the vein of high-res paper crease brushes and stains to grunge up the paper.


You have what I assume to be political borders which are drawn over top of your mountains. IMHO, this makes for a bad aesthetic. I would personally suggest moving the lines to conform to the contours of the terrain instead. Stolas is an easy to find example, but it happens all over the place. Outside of that, a quick glance gives me a warm fuzzy that this is is a great map....
not quite sure i understood you. in your example you mentioned Stolas - was that a good example or a bad one?

Schwarzkreuz
06-28-2012, 03:15 AM
I think He generally disliked the political borders overrunning the landscape (Mountains)
But old Maps were all about coasts, borders and locations, aestetics were secundary so its ok with me. Only in modern times it is possible to do Maps for decoration purpuse only. And Most Maps here are Not in the style of maps used As trade Gifts or so.

Hannibal.Lector
06-28-2012, 06:42 AM
Whoa! Really Superb!
Fantastic! And huge effort!

jfrazierjr
06-28-2012, 08:05 AM
not quite sure i understood you. in your example you mentioned Stolas - was that a good example or a bad one?

Well it's an example of the "issue"(as I see it), but it's not the best example(or in this case the one that looks the worst). It just so happens that that area of the map is clearly labeled ans thus easy to find the exact "location". Since i was on a tablet, I could not take a screenshot and point out the bits I think make it look bad.

You spent what I assume was many hours to create these great mountain symbols and then drop political boundaries on top of them which takes away from the final product. Since this is a representational map as opposed to a topographical or atlas style map where such boundaries might need to be precisely drawn, I would just favor a more lax approach to the boundaries since I believe it would make the map look better.

46114

Another example that looks really bad with this approach in my opinion and probably the one I think looks worst overall is the long mountain chain South and SouthWest of Miharast. Don't get me wrong, I am not against general grunge(ie, the map got stained or dirtied in the past), the paper folding, or other destruction of the map contents that interfere with the mountain symbols since that's a consequence of age of the map(in "character" so to speak), it's just the political borders overlapping the mountains which bug me. I would prefer to see either the mountains laid down and then the borders drawn around them or drop the borders and then place the mountains around them. Of course, knowing how long it takes to create such a map, I know the latter is likely not a viable solution and even the former may take too much time to "redo".

vorropohaiah
06-28-2012, 09:50 AM
Ok, I get you now. Most of the borders are a remnant from the older 'temporary' mountains so should be changed to convey more closely to the contours (where borders happen to fall alongside mountains). Though other than that I'm not sure what style to go for on the revised borders. I was thinking about a hand-painted wet edge effect. comments?

Chashio
06-28-2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks for sharing your technique! And, no, I don't think it's too blatantly taken from our world =) ... be kinda hard to avoid them all, might as well embrace 'em. ;)

Border style... a wet edge would likely fit in with the rest of it, but how about trying one little section where the borders meet at a corner and play with it.

vorropohaiah
07-02-2012, 01:32 AM
Border style... a wet edge would likely fit in with the rest of it, but how about trying one little section where the borders meet at a corner and play with it.

Well the mountains are now finished (shading and highlights. I must have cut/pasted well over 3000 individual mountains!) though im sure ill keep on tinkering as i add more key elements. Now its on to finishing naming the regions, then ill start work on polishing the key and experimenting with border styles.

Schwarzkreuz
07-02-2012, 04:34 PM
Can you post a new image of how its looking now?

vorropohaiah
07-04-2012, 02:10 AM
Can you post a new image of how its looking now?

well the true map is still greyscale as I'm not yet done adding in nations and keys etc., though the current 'colour-test' (since that's what im concentrating on at the moment) stands like this (though im basing this off of an older version of the grey-scale map, so the mountain highlights are now done and various un-keyed regions have now been completed also):

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/colourtestnew.jpg

Though I must say I am not 'feeling it' very much. I'm thinking of going back and changing it to something more akin to the below image which i made quickly now based off of an older version of the map, which I feel shows off the type of era (18th - 19th century) that the setting currently stands in (i agree with some people here who have said the image above looks like an antique map, which is good in and of itself all, but it really shouldn't be, based on the year and nation in the setting that I was meant to have been produced in in-world it's like saying a functional (not artistic or replica-antioque) mpa produced today looking like something from the Atlas Maior, which just doesnt make sense. not too sure im explaining myself correctly though :o.

The same stands for the mountains, though I'm having difficulty trying to figure out hat style they should otherwise be im. I'll probably finish off the greyscale version and cook up 2 variant colour overlays - one more subtle, 18th - 19th century looking and another one with the grungy colours and take it from there. or perhaps a cross between the two? its amazing what a bit of burn around the page edges and some subtle paper texture can do, even to a grey-scale map (perhaps with a small amount of colourised hue/saturation to bring out some discolouring in the paper).

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/NEW-innersea-map-2.jpg

Please let me know what you think or of any suggestions as im struggling at the moment, trying to find an identity for the map!

vorropohaiah
07-06-2012, 12:59 AM
here's a slightly colour-corrected (or should i say altered) version. its a bit redder and slightly less saturated

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/colourtestnew-1.jpg

im still thinking of going for something thats between the two pics in the previous post, with just a hint of colour and less weathering. any thoughts? please? :)

Khaalis
07-06-2012, 02:42 AM
Personally, I'd agree with the less weathering. I notice that the weathering tends to draw my eyes more than the map features itself, which I think is a detriment to the great art you have here. As for the coloration, I think that is mostly personal taste. For me, I like the tan color test, though I think I would lighten the color some and go for a more blue than grey water. JMHO. Otherwise, amazing map. I hope to some day get even half this good.

Seraphine_Harmonium
07-06-2012, 03:43 AM
Of the three images on this page, I like the first, top one the best. I like the blue water. You can instantly tell where the land and water are. The second one I have to look at for a second or two before I can make out what is what. So I'd start with the top one. You could desaturate it a bit, but I'd definitely keep it two-toned with the blue. I think the weathering looks fine and natural. It doesn't distract me at all.

And the red one just looks weird.

Schwarzkreuz
07-06-2012, 05:22 AM
I totally agree with seraphine in this topic. You could do this Map like an artistic 16th century Map and than use the Files to do a 18th C Map later. You had already put so much Accord into this Beautiful Map so don't trash it

vorropohaiah
07-06-2012, 06:53 AM
Thanks for the feedback people, much appreciated :)

I'll be making an older '16th century' style map first (as that's also what will look nicer on my wall once its done!) But will later do the more 'technical/official' more recent one later (which I can work with in a more manageable resolution as its not intended for print, which will make work easier)... Of course that just means relabelling the whole thing and sorting coastlines to match the world's history but I'm a sucker for punishment!

vorropohaiah
07-11-2012, 01:48 PM
Today's work on the map was spent coming up with a new key and trying to make a new cartouche for the map. I'd have like to have two separate ones - one for the blurb and another for the key, though there's so few areas on the map I'm willing to cover up I settled for one big one in the lower left corner. At full-scale this is about 12" wide.

still not 100% sure on it. it fulfils its role well-enough though there's little character to it. The main image is still split in about 10-layers so I can quickly change certain details, when I think of anything to do! Maybe with your advice... :)

EDIT: does 'table of keys' make any sense?

46463

Schwarzkreuz
07-12-2012, 05:12 AM
Please dont feel insulted about this but, I personally think the fonts looks terrible and would hurt your map.

- the Border have a strange 3D Embossy effect that makes no sense,
- Same for Title
- The font choosen is one of the most cliché font ever for fantasy related prints/maps
- the stretching of fonts (title) is hurting the eye
- the right decoration borders a just pressed taller from the other border which looks bad
- if this turned out to be a 16th map please try using proper Antiqua Fonts, or fonts related to the time
- please NEVER push the i icon on your computer, use the cursive/italic fontvariation of your Font, a very good example is the font family IM Fell (free to download)

Sorry if this turned to a ****storm, but I realy cant see you putting this on your very beoutiful map.

here are some for of my favorite Fonts to experiment:

http://www.dafont.com/mailart-rubberstamp.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/requiem.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/18th-century.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/the-missus-hand.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/the-missus-han...ue.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/island-roman.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/uglyqua.font?fpp=50
http://www.dafont.com/aquiline-two.font?fpp=50

And here is the IM FELL website :

http://iginomarini.com/fell/

vorropohaiah
07-12-2012, 10:40 AM
Please dont feel insulted about this but, I personally think the fonts looks terrible and would hurt your map.

- the Border have a strange 3D Embossy effect that makes no sense,
- Same for Title
- The font choosen is one of the most cliché font ever for fantasy related prints/maps
- the stretching of fonts (title) is hurting the eye
- the right decoration borders a just pressed taller from the other border which looks bad
- if this turned out to be a 16th map please try using proper Antiqua Fonts, or fonts related to the time
- please NEVER push the i icon on your computer, use the cursive/italic fontvariation of your Font, a very good example is the font family IM Fell (free to download)

thanks for the feedback, stuff like this is always more helpful that 'thats cool' or 'that sucks'

Though I think quite a few of the points are quite subjective, particularly the font style and the embossing. everyone loves different fonts. If I was using 'Comic Sans' I'd see the point though I've spent quite a while going through font websites (including dafont.com, which my PS instructor had made me memorise by heart...) and I have to honestly say that the font that best fits the character of the nation that made the map (other than Exocet, which is my personal favourite. Though which also was'nt too well-received, though that was as a map font rather than the cartouche itself).

Regarding the italics, I haven't been able to find a set of truer italicised or bold Dark11 fonts and had to use the I/B/U option in type tool on PS.

Regarding stretching/kerning... it might be the font im using but none of this text is stretched (its 100% vertical/100% horizontal) and is unaltered save areas where it's italicised or bold. so the title isn't stretched at all. (my guess is you just dont like that font!).

in previous posts when I stated 16th or 18th century maps I meant to give an idea of the technological level of the world and the style of maps (more artistic vs literal) rather than anything else, and as its an alternate world my guess is fonts might be different.

and a admit that the decorative borders on the key part of the cartouce look wrong because of the stretching though i spent a while on them and couldnt figure out another way of doing them, without having access to another design.

and regarding the embossing, I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'makes no sense' i dont think there's anything technically wrong with it (it looks physically plausable to me) and is intended to resemble a stone slab - maybe that doesnt come across?

Schwarzkreuz
07-12-2012, 11:22 AM
I guess its true that i dislike this Kind of font in a subjective point of view. Somehow it screams at me, typographicly spoken, "wrong" into the face. Fonts and Borders with embossy have the Same effect on me.

vorropohaiah
07-16-2012, 07:35 AM
I am working on the embossed effects and, in particular, the borders, though I'm having a hard time finding something that fits in with the character I've come up with for the region that created the map.

also, here's a link (https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ii01uyzu3bdsmf/NEW%20-%20inner%20sea%20-%20map.jpg) to a (temporarily coloured version) of the map as it stands now. the keys are about half converted to the new version though i'm not 100% happy with them (particularly the black colour i chose for the ruins, places of interest, religious site, penumbral region and the white i chose for the firmaemntal site keys -they either need inverted borders or a new colour as they dont stand oput enough from the map itself.

the mountains are largely done (though i need to lower the contrast to make the text stand out against them more - as it is now, anything labelled on the mountains is too difficult to read), and the forested regions are beginning to take shape though with the paper effect need more work and need something to pop a bit more (certainly no individual trees for the forst - im not too keen on that style and it doesnt fit in with the culture of the nation that produced the map to illustrate trees individually - besides, its a dying world and true virgin forests are largely dead).

as for the water im thinking of making it very subtle, if coloured at all - i quite like it like this.


keep in mind that im working in the map in B&W and will add the paper texture and colours fully once its done - this is just a temporary thing (as other pics so far have been) to give a taste of what im looking for. perhaps thats my problem - working in B&W? maybe i should be working in colour from the get-go?
please let me know what you think

Schwarzkreuz
07-16-2012, 08:27 AM
Try to work in the Mountains in darkbrown tones, this wont messup the teansparency with overlaying textures, and still take out some of the contrasts.

vorropohaiah
07-16-2012, 09:36 AM
that's just what I meant about working in B&W... the thought never occured to me to try a colour other than something greyscale. i really need to get out of that mindset as I think I'm inadvertently limiting myself.

thanks :)

Klaus van der Kroft
07-16-2012, 02:07 PM
This is one of the very best maps I have seen. The shape of the landmass is awesome.

My hat is off to you, good sir.

vorropohaiah
07-17-2012, 05:50 AM
This is one of the very best maps I have seen. The shape of the landmass is awesome.

thanks :) though there's a long ways to go ye and probably a lot or re-iteration of the same thing (particularly with regards to the key and other niggling details).

I'v attached a pic of the current WIP progress (no different to the previous post, i just simply actually added the map to the post this time, though the link in the previous post is slightly higher res

46636

ExMachina
07-17-2012, 03:44 PM
Absolutely beautiful, the hand-drawn elements (i.e. the mountains) are breath taking.

Schwarzkreuz
07-17-2012, 04:09 PM
Thanks for the Tips.

Did you changed the mountain colors already? Have you thought about adding forests? I agree on hightlighten the points of interests they some kind of beeing difficult to see.

vorropohaiah
07-17-2012, 04:15 PM
Haven't changed the mountains yet but I certainly will, and I'm looking for a subtle texture for the forest and something to make the key pop out more

jtougas
07-17-2012, 04:22 PM
Stunning :) Repped !!

Schwarzkreuz
07-26-2012, 02:35 PM
Any news on this part of the Fictioverse?

vorropohaiah
07-26-2012, 03:43 PM
thanks for the interest, though no, not yet. still struggling to find a key that im happy with and combing the internet for new fonts to see if i can find something better for the areas. Dafont.com has far too many fonts for its own good :)

vorropohaiah
08-11-2012, 08:22 AM
Well I think it’s time I call this one done, at least for the purposes of producing a ‘finished version’ on this site.

This map is something of a work-map for me and my worldbuilding. As I add more history to the world and detail regions, I’ll invariably come back to the original PSD and edit it. Much like the real world, the world of Elyden is very much a living place (ok, starting to sound crazy here but I’d like to think I’m amongst fellow worldbuilders here who know what I mean…), so the PSD will never truly be done, but there’s a time to call things a day. I could spend ages tinkering with colour adjustments and whatnot, though I’m happy with this for now.

I’m posting a low-quality jpg here (4.4 mb – the original flattened image is about 75 mb, so a lot of detail was lots in the compression) to show the current state, though I’ll keep on updating this thread as I make any changes to the original map. Any feedback is more than welcome and a lot of the changes I’ve already made to this are thanks to constructive feedback, so please let me know if there’s anything you don’t like or any mistakes you notice. Well I think it’s time I call this one done, at least for the purposes of producing a ‘finished version’ on this site. I'm also going to post a finished map thread in which I'll. Divide the map into quarter for a bit more detail.

This map is something of a work-map for me and my worldbuilding. As I add more history to the world and detail regions, I’ll invariably come back to the original PSD and edit it. Much like the real world, the world of Elyden is very much a living place (ok, starting to sound crazy here but I’d like to think I’m amongst fellow worldbuilders here who know what I mean…), so the PSD will never truly be done, but there’s a time to call things a day. I could spend ages tinkering with colour adjustments and whatnot, though I’m happy with this for now.

I’m posting a low-quality jpg here (4.4 mb – the original flattened image is about 75 mb, so a lot of detail was lots in the compression) to show the current state, though I’ll keep on updating this thread as I make any changes to the original map. Any feedback is more than welcome and a lot of the changes I’ve already made to this are thanks to constructive feedback, so please let me know if there’s anything you don’t like or any mistakes you notice.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x15/voropohaiah/elyden/Smallelydenmap.jpg

Klaus van der Kroft
08-13-2012, 01:23 AM
Truly spectacular. It is a joy seeing it finished.

It doesn't just look good; it really feels like an exotic, mysterious ancient Middle Eastern world.

If you ever decide to upload the full version, I would indeed enjoy checking it out.

As I previously said, this is by far one of my favourite maps.

Schwarzkreuz
08-13-2012, 02:51 AM
It have become One of my alltime favorites here! Congratulations.
If you ever decide to write an cOmpendium about the World give me a Note and i buy it!

vorropohaiah
08-13-2012, 02:51 AM
thanks :)

here's a version you can zoom into, though the detail is still reduced from the original.

EDIT: and the finished map thread is here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?19685-the-High-empire-of-Korachan-and-the-Inner-Sea)

vorropohaiah
08-13-2012, 03:29 AM
It have become One of my alltime favorites here! Congratulations.
If you ever decide to write an cOmpendium about the World give me a Note and i buy it!

haha! thanks. actually that's the main goal, and this map is just something to help me do that. I'd like to do a world atlas at some point...

Diamond
08-13-2012, 02:32 PM
Beautiful, beautiful work. I LOVE IT.

Tigon
08-17-2012, 01:20 PM
Simply magnificent. Just spent the last hour reading the thread from the start... only one left in the building now! Repworthy indeed!

vorropohaiah
08-19-2012, 01:02 PM
lol, thanks!

I just found a pretty blatant mistake - the map border on the bottom of the page is missing a 5degree mark on the graticule. That's been fixed now.

Other than that I've already started tinkering again, adding more locations to regions away from the Inner Sea, as they're looking a bit bare compared to some other regions. Guess this shows the work is never really complete!

Schwarzkreuz
08-21-2012, 09:19 AM
one of the bests, no doubts

Tigon
08-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Ha! Even decided to set it as my background for the time-being... not that it sees that much time exposed to the big bad world. 47684

Havercakes24
08-25-2012, 12:17 PM
This map is epic! i love the texture, and look of the map great work!

Reverieweaver
11-06-2012, 08:48 AM
Heh, I'd like to make a decent mmorpg with this worldmap. Kudos!

vorropohaiah
11-06-2012, 09:36 AM
Heh, I'd like to make a decent mmorpg with this worldmap. Kudos!


Lol sounds good :)

Xanuri
01-09-2013, 09:24 AM
Very nice Map

Will Brawner
01-30-2013, 09:00 PM
Absolutely amazing! I feel like this was actually made during the 1400s - by the best mapmaker on Earth!