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töff
04-26-2008, 11:21 PM
Venus Public Transit (VPT)

Torq
04-27-2008, 06:45 AM
Thats flippin awesome Toff. Was that a commissioned work or just having fun? It looks like its been done for something specific.

Torq

Publius
04-27-2008, 08:55 AM
That is cool. I love the background and layered text. That is the sort of thing that I need to work on for my own layout designs.

töff
04-27-2008, 10:23 AM
It was a totally random thing I dreamed up from spending some time riding the metro busses while my license is suspended do to a DUI (fun), plus the fact that a serial novel I am running in my magazine was currently taking place on Venus, mostly in Laxmi Suppolse [suppolse = sub 'under(ground)' + polis 'city'] but also at a surface dome in Thetis Regio Parcel, and I just wondered where these sites were and what kind of excuse I could wangle to make a map. Thus was born VPT.

The background is a composite photo of Venus, and I tried to strip in some of the "real" terrain names, but it got difficult and I think I might have misplaced a few. Most of the names are fictional, of course.

Also, the semi-circular regions at bottom right, around Scout 1661, Scout 16a etc. ... the idea was, at some point in Venus history, the admins of Herbert Parcel would have said, "We claim everything within X hundred kilometers of these Scout sites," and the weaker Lada Terra Parcel would have had to give up the land. (Later, Idmir Parcel managed to grab a lot of Herbert Parcel's western reaches.) But, stupid thing, I forgot I was working in a Mercator projection, and when this map is wrapped onto a sphere, those areas around the Scouts are nothing like semicircular. Oh well! Maybe I'll tweak it. But I'm horribly close to press deadline.

Edit: It's tons of fun to think of the history of a place while building borders like that. But you guys knew this already, huh.

töff
04-27-2008, 10:44 AM
Publius, what really do you mean by "layered text"?
(If your name is Latin, should I address you as "Publie"?)

töff
04-27-2008, 12:00 PM
Meh. I suppose I don't know how to map circles onto a sphere and then project them to Mercator. I guess I could do some fancy thing with cones & cylinders & intersection ... but ... meh.

pyrandon
04-27-2008, 12:04 PM
wowee, toff--that is one of the most clever, well-done, and satisfying maps I've seen in a long, long while! Amazing, bothi n idea and execution. Hats off to you, sir!

ravells
04-27-2008, 12:29 PM
Don't know about the sphere mapping problem, but that is a seriously beautiful map. Reminds me of something I would see in 'Tour of the Universe' (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/h/robert-holdstock/tour-of-universe.htm).

töff
04-27-2008, 12:56 PM
You guys are too generous! Come on, give me a bash or two with the lauds.

ravells
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Your mother smells of elderberries.

Happy? :)

Torq
04-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Your deathstar's gone psychadelic.

Torq

töff
04-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Oh come on, I can't be the only one who sees anything wrong with it. :?

Midgardsormr
04-27-2008, 09:21 PM
Um... Mountain range is one word in your legend. I think the white stroke around many of your labels is a little overwhelming, especially the gray ones.

Other than that, it's a thing of beauty.

I am tempted to thnk that the symbolic complexity is too great, but there is no reason to assume that the human capacity to interpret symbols will remain the same into the future. After all, in St. Augustine's time, it was not commonplace for even a highly educated person to be able to read silently. (At one point in his Confessions, Augustine expresses surprise that one of his colleagues can read without saying the words aloud--the man was still moving his lips, though.) So it seems likely that human mental function might change to accommodate the huge number of signs and symbols we are generating today.

töff
04-27-2008, 09:41 PM
Thank you, good critique!

This is meant for print, so the white stroke might or might not need adjustment. What we see on screens is often very deceptive. But I will make sure I check it at print.

By lots of symbols, I can only guess you mean the color-coded route lines? Yeh, they got me a little confused, too. I'm not even sure all of them exist on the map! (LOL, a legend showing stuff that's not on the map ... but maybe those routes existed on a previous edition ... yeh that's the story I'm sticking with.) The city symbols are only three, so that's hardly a burden. Most modern maps have at least that many city symbols alone, with various size/color dots, stars, rings, squares, etc. I love loading symbols/icon onto maps, so I guess I should try to practice a little bit of restraint from now on in my ravenous (raving) cartophilia.

töff
04-27-2008, 09:48 PM
Mountain range is one word in your legend.And I did that on purpose, probs cuz I'm so aware of the tendency of English's ancestors and cousins to agglutinate. I wish English did it more. I am overcompensating, probs.

Midgardsormr
04-27-2008, 09:58 PM
Ah. Well, at least you didn't shorten it to Morange (rhymes with orange). I'd be tempted to think you a Brit. Are they really in such a hurry that they can't take the time to say "West Saxony?"

RobA
04-28-2008, 09:48 AM
OK - I'll try to be critical :)

- The border of P. Ishtar Terra doesn't line up with its neighbours.
- The area borders don't really make sense on a sphere - they are very grid oriented.
- In P. Grand Tethus, the purple lines are lost in the bg.
- In the middle of P. Idmir I think "Slates" should be "States" (typo)
- Are E and W reversed? (does Venus rotate the other way? and does trhat make difference... is sunrise to the E always?) Specifically, P. Lavina E and W...

But it is a really nice map. I love map/diagrams and really like transit maps.

-Rob A>

SpamValiant
04-28-2008, 10:10 AM
But it would be so good to finally have a word to rhyme with orange!


"I wandered lonely, picking oranges,
On the slopes of Venusian moranges."


I definitely think we should be promoting this idea...:D

töff
04-28-2008, 10:43 AM
- The border of P. Ishtar Terra doesn't line up with its neighbours.Oops, must have donked it unconsciously, fixed, thanks!

- The area borders don't really make sense on a sphere - they are very grid oriented.Yes, well, various explanations for that, the obvious one being that I wasn't working on a sphere but on a Mercator. But maybe so were the people in charge of parcelling. Anyway, latitude and longitude are grids, after all.

- In P. Grand Tethus, the purple lines are lost in the bg.Point. I adjusted it. BTW, I forced myself to use the Four-Color Map Theorem ... and it actually works! but it's not easy.

- In the middle of P. Idmir I think "Slates" should be "States" (typo)I meant slates, but if it looks like a typo then it has to change. I went to change it to SUBSLATES, but I typed SUBLATES by mistake and that looks very cool, like a CLVIIth century "sub lease" (although what I really meant was more like an annexation or hostile takeover).

- Are E and W reversed? (does Venus rotate the other way? and does trhat make difference... is sunrise to the E always?) Specifically, P. Lavina E and W...I have no clue what I was thinking there. I fixed it. Venus's rotation is actually longer than it's year, btw. I figured they would just use the Earth orientation. How horrible would it be to have to learn a new compass on every planet you visit?

Good calls! Thank you!

'Morange' to rhyme with 'orange' just doesn't sound right for mountain range. I keep hearing "MOE-reynj."

The white outlines were a little heavy and print and I toned them down.

Should I post an update? (LOL, here in the Finished Map area).

töff
04-28-2008, 10:48 AM
"I wandered lonely, picking oranges,
On the slopes of Venusian moranges."I'm glad to see that the 'proper' adjective for the name Venus, which is 'Venereal,' has fallen out of general practice. Gosh, I wonder why.

But you guys see why I love the word 'cereal' so much, yeh? (The food, too.)

RPMiller
04-28-2008, 11:33 AM
Yes, definitely post an update.

EDIT: and what is the 4 color map theorem?

töff
04-28-2008, 12:09 PM
EDIT: and what is the 4 color map theorem?Maybe more of a math geek thing than a cartophile thing ... but it's def. worth a google for anyone here. It's related to the Seven Bridges Problem, which again is probs of interest to all mappies.

RPMiller
04-28-2008, 12:31 PM
So what you are saying is that you aren't going to tell me? ;)

Looks like I have some Googling to do at lunch... :D

töff
04-28-2008, 12:39 PM
So what you are saying is that you aren't going to tell me? ;)

Looks like I have some Googling to do at lunch... :DI'm less of a Teach A Man To Fish kinda guy, more of a Tell A Man Where To Find A Fishing Pole kinda guy.

I will, however, hereby enjoin everyone always to abide by and practice with fervor the Four Color Map Theorem henceforth and endlessly into the future.

Update ... and FYI fwiw, this piece was done completely in Illustrator CS3 ... töff ♥ Adobe.

SpamValiant
04-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm glad to see that the 'proper' adjective for the name Venus, which is 'Venereal,' has fallen out of general practice. Gosh, I wonder why.


Hehe. I'm pretty sure (though not 100%) that the adjective Venereal is used in relation to the Goddess Venus, rather than the planet. Obviously the one is named for the other, but I can't find a decent reference to 'Venereal' in relation to the planet. If your research for this map has given you a better insight I'd be curious to hear it, since astronomy and the history of it is an interest of mine. I'd hate to be missing out:D

For the breeze of morning moves,
And the planet of Love is on high,
Beginning to faint in the light that she loves
On a bed of daffodil sky,
To faint in the light of the sun she loves,
To faint in his light, and to die.
-Tennyson

töff
04-28-2008, 05:47 PM
At one time, there was no difference between the planet & the goddess.

But yeh we'll go with your differentiation. I like it.

töff
06-30-2008, 05:31 PM
It's awesome to be chosen as a Featured Map. Should I post those "too long" comments here? Half of it is stuff I said already in the thread, so I'll have to edit anyway.

torstan
06-30-2008, 05:31 PM
Well done! It's a great map and deserves pride of place on the front page.

Ascension
06-30-2008, 06:08 PM
Stunning! I got lost. Much props.

ravells
06-30-2008, 06:09 PM
It's awesome to be chosen as a Featured Map. Should I post those "too long" comments here? Half of it is stuff I said already in the thread, so I'll have to edit anyway.

Be my guest, it would be a shame to see it go to waste!

And congrats on such a brilliant map.

töff
06-30-2008, 08:30 PM
Meh to edits. Here are my feature comments (http://www.arcticcoconut.com/links/VPT-notes.pdf).

Thanks again you guys. The other featured maps are amazing. It's a bit intimidating to see my little VPT doodle placed amongst them ... but, hey, I'll try to bear it!

A. Smith
06-30-2008, 08:40 PM
Don't be so modest. It rocks. It really looks like something you'd find in a subway on Venus!

Althoguh I AM getting lost, just giving it a short look :)

töff
06-30-2008, 10:20 PM
LOL, 2 people getting lost from my map. Methinks 'tis not so great a sign.

OK, meanwhile, semi-change of subject. I think, for kicks, what I would like to do for the next chapter, called "Leapfrog," in which Ebony (Juliette, the heroine) is chasing after a bad guy, is let you guys pick the locations that she visits in the Solar System. Maybe I can just take the first five suggestions? Come on, I'm offering a free tour of the planets etc. in the 16th Millennium! Who can resist?

I won't put a restriction except that all locations have to be in the Solar system, anywhere from Mercury to Sedna. Mercury was already mentioned once as human-occupied. I also had a brief scene on a station called "Oort-1," which would be way in the hell out there. So, pick your places. I hope you guys are interested enough to suggest something! I'll make the chapter available somewhere. Oughtta be fun :) Takers?

töff
06-30-2008, 10:24 PM
Oh ... sorry ... she can't go to Paris. No. Jamais encore. Das kommt nicht im Frage.

töff
06-30-2008, 10:51 PM
Lookit lookit, I got a scroll! *snoopy dance*

Naeddyr
07-01-2008, 04:25 AM
I love this map. It feels like a real place, this Venus of yours.

You keep on mentioned the map is in Mercator - was the original in Mercator, or did you convert something else to it? (Iirc, most NASA-related maps I've seen tend to Equirectangular, but come to think of it, I can remember some Mercator as well.)

EDIT:

I've used 'Venerean' for my Steamopera Venusian adjective, but modern astronomy seems to like 'Cytherean'.

töff
07-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Thanks Naeddyr :) ... it IS a real place, in my head. I've got parts of it down on paper, too.

The photo underneath is a composite Mercator, yes, from here (http://www.oera.net/How2/PlanetTexs/VenusMap_2500x1250.jpg) or here (http://www.solarviews.com/raw/venus/venmap.gif).

The problem I ran into (and noticed too late to fix) is that the photo's apparently not a true, full Mercator field, pole to pole, and 360° around. But that's how I set up my latitudes and longitudes! So when I was trying to drop in existing real names from this cool real-Venus map (http://planetologia.elte.hu/venusz-terkep-elte-ttk-kavucs.pdf), which is spec'ed as lat & long, the dang photo was not matching up to my grid. I did what I could by comparing the satellite terrain features against the painted landmarks in the PDF. The result is not that wrong ... but ... *sigh* Oh well. Live & learn.

Oh, lookit what I just saw ...
The adjective Venusian is commonly used for items related to Venus, though the Latin adjective is the rarely used Venerean; the now-archaic Cytherean is still occasionally encountered. Venus is the only planet in the Solar System named after a female figure, although two dwarf planets—Ceres and Eris—also have female names.

Naeddyr
07-01-2008, 11:50 AM
Thanks Naeddyr :) ... it IS a real place, in my head. I've got parts of it down on paper, too.

The photo underneath is a composite Mercator, yes, from here (http://www.oera.net/How2/PlanetTexs/VenusMap_2500x1250.jpg) or here (http://www.solarviews.com/raw/venus/venmap.gif).


töff, I hope I am wrong, but I believe the above images are in the Equirectangular projection, not Mercator at all. For one, their dimensions are the 2x1 you get with Equirectangular; in a Mercator projection, even when it's cut off at a certain point due to the crazy fractal poles, the dimensions are usually in a ratio much smaller than 2-to-1. Second, I tried this out in g.projector, specifically Vertical Perspective, and the poles fit. (You can download g.projector from http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gprojector/ - it's Java.)

There were alarm bells in my head when I saw you mention Mercator in conjunction with planetary maps... They come from horrible experience. :)

(Well, in hindsight, there might be no trouble here at all - I don't know how do your map-to-globe conversion, or what program, but there are good chances it is an Equirectangular conversion taking place instead of Mercator, mainly because there is no need to use Mercator in 3d-programs, but Equirectangular is so computationally basic that it's not just for map-projections, but is also used in panoramas and other globular textures as well (which is a part of why the NASA images are in that projection: older maps would probably be in Mercator or similar, iirc).)

Or maybe I'm missing something - I'm not a cartographer, so feel free to hit me if I'm wrong. :?:

EDIT:

Seems the Magellan maps were in Mercator: http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/magellan/image2.html

The dimensions are 1.8:1.

RPMiller
07-01-2008, 12:08 PM
LOL, 2 people getting lost from my map. Methinks 'tis not so great a sign.

OK, meanwhile, semi-change of subject. I think, for kicks, what I would like to do for the next chapter, called "Leapfrog," in which Ebony (Juliette, the heroine) is chasing after a bad guy, is let you guys pick the locations that she visits in the Solar System. Maybe I can just take the first five suggestions? Come on, I'm offering a free tour of the planets etc. in the 16th Millennium! Who can resist?

I won't put a restriction except that all locations have to be in the Solar system, anywhere from Mercury to Sedna. Mercury was already mentioned once as human-occupied. I also had a brief scene on a station called "Oort-1," which would be way in the hell out there. So, pick your places. I hope you guys are interested enough to suggest something! I'll make the chapter available somewhere. Oughtta be fun :) Takers?
Titan! That would be my choice. Followed by one of the big asteroids.

torstan
07-01-2008, 12:12 PM
Into a gas giant would be cool, or a trip to the rings of saturn.

ravells
07-01-2008, 12:12 PM
Io for me! I just like the arrangement of the letters and the sound.

I wonder if old Macdonald had a farm there?

töff
07-01-2008, 12:13 PM
Into a gas giant would be cool, or a trip to the rings of saturn.

Is that 1 or 2? ... should be be fair and limit each person to 1 place?

torstan
07-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Let's go for rings of saturn then. That gets my vote.

töff
07-01-2008, 12:40 PM
1. Titan
2. Rings of Saturn
3. Io
4. (open)
5. (open)
6. ...?

delgondahntelius
07-01-2008, 12:50 PM
Ceres .... largest object in the asteroid belt... *I love the asteroid belt for some reason, i dunno, i'm kinda weird* .... also considered a dwarf planet ....

töff
07-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Oh man, I just did some characters from the Belt! Yeh that's awesome, cheers.

töff
07-01-2008, 03:33 PM
1. Titan
2. Rings of Saturn
3. Io
4. Ceres
5. (open)

I see a trend. That's 3 consecutive orbits: Belt, Joviter, Saturn. Hmm.

töff
07-02-2008, 03:02 PM
Somebody grab the last slot or I'll make it up myself!

torstan
07-02-2008, 05:17 PM
The sun? Go on, just as a challenge :)

I know. I already have one.

töff
07-02-2008, 05:30 PM
I'm so glad I said "Anywhere from Mercury to Sedna."

The sun, hahaha.

Although, we do have gravity-bubble technology (http://lattice.mysteryandmagic.com/reference.g.html#gravityengine) in this storyworld. Some spaceships create artificial singularities around themselves, and essentially "disconnect from the universe." Such a ship could fly through the sun.

But that hardly constitutes a story location, does it!

OT ... btw ... check this (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,375447,00.html) out.

torstan
07-02-2008, 05:34 PM
Good news article. I love hearing about the astrophysics experiments using old satellites. I'm jsut amazed that the satellites are still sending back data when they are over 30 years old and a very long way away.

Ascension
07-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Those lil dudes rock. 100 years from now we'll still be talkin about em, in terms that rival sliced bread.

töff
07-04-2008, 01:58 PM
I have to put a time limit on the "choose sites for the story" thing, because I only have a month (meaning 10-12 hours, probs) to write the chapter. So, if there's no fifth choice by the end of Monday, I'll throw in my own choice. Or maybe use that extra suggestion from, well, I don't remember who or where, but there was a double so maybe I'll use both.

THANK YOU to those who picked locations! It should be a fun cahllenge for me to write, and I hope some of you will read (and enjoy!) the chapter.

töff
07-05-2008, 11:09 AM
But I have a map idea, and if I get the fifth location by midnight pacific today then I'll do the map and post it here.

Bribe 'em with what they want! what they neeeeeed!

RPMiller
07-05-2008, 11:43 AM
Well if no one else is going to suggest something, I would say that Mars is the logical choice.

töff
07-05-2008, 12:09 PM
Mars! Done! thnx RP.

In fact, Mars is not such a nice place (http://lattice.mysteryandmagic.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?30/30) in the 16th Millennium. I haven't developed it much, but it'll help to have a canon scene in the upcoming chapter.

Hmm, brief glance showed the Earth Elitist League thing that some other player had started. Maybe I can work that in somehow.

OK, I'm on the hook for that map, I guess. First thing to do is find the positions of the planets in September, AD 15,605. I think I can do that ... I hope ...

Maybe I can make a tutorial of sorts out of this. What do you call a tute that's not good for anything except how to make that one specific map?

töff
07-05-2008, 12:16 PM
1. Titan* (a moon of Saturn)
2. Rings of Saturn
3. Io (a moon of Joviter)
4. Ceres (in the Asteroid Belt)
5. Mars

That makes a straight line moving inward: Saturn, Jupiter, Belt, Mars. The "obvious" choice was Mars, wasn't it. Obvious is not always bad.

* House Linzin has a huge holding TRITON, a moon of Neptune. I always get the name mixed up with TITAN. The Jovian moons (the Galileans, anyway) are usually obvious, but I make a muddle of other planets' moons.

I'll start a new thread for the solar system map I have in mind. This thread is definitely done for VPT.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE GUILD! I'm really glad I found this place. You guys are all great company. (Not like some other communities I've hung out in.)

RPMiller
07-05-2008, 12:29 PM
Glad to be of service. :) I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with and learning more about the setting especially.

And thank you for being a member. We couldn't be a great place without great members such as yourself.

töff
07-13-2008, 10:17 PM
LOL! ... "Venus, visually boring. (http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/dir3/planet_globes/)" lulz! :p

Boslok
06-01-2010, 12:55 AM
I know it's late and I've always tried not to post late, its like drunk dialing. But this map is like falling off the toilet, hitting your head and dreaming up the flux capacitor. Just brilliant.

(I'm a new guy so forgive my gushing on older posts)

töff
06-01-2010, 11:33 AM
Thanks! It's always my goal to make people feel as if they've just fallen off toilets.

Ascension
06-01-2010, 05:03 PM
Good to see that you're still kickin toffster. :)

töff
06-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Thanks. It's what corpses tend to do when abused on the morgue slab with electricity etc.

I miss you guys. The place looks good! If I get to revise my Woadsbury map next spring (which is kinda the plan), I'll drop in & post some updates. I was looking at the Citybuilding Guide, and I like it a lot.

Steel General
06-01-2010, 07:22 PM
He lives, he lives!!! :D

ravells
06-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Toff...this is home. I hope you'll always know that.