View Full Version : Is it possible?
04-28-2008, 08:02 PM
I've been messing about compiling info on good ol' Greyhawk (tm) then started fiddling about with map making using Campaign Cartographer - then I read Anna Bernemalm's Bryce posts (Wow, by the way. Really brings Greyhawk alive!). Now I'm wondering if it's possible to put together a 3D Greyhawk Globe? There's a fair bit of info concerning the maths on the Living Greyhawk sites - but does anyone have the skill and courage to do such a thing which would gladden the hearts of Greyhawk Campaigners for years to come (coz I certainly don't)!
04-28-2008, 08:31 PM
Umm...well i guess you can ask!....Welcome to the guild!
04-28-2008, 08:50 PM
Ta Ravells, and thanks for the welcome too!
Just out of curiosity, have many people discussed rendering a 3D globe - I was just about to have a nose on the forums (and download Anna's tutorial again to see if I can make any sense outa this darn complicated Bryce thing!)
04-28-2008, 09:11 PM
We can render 3d globes no problem...I'm just not sure whether Greyhawk was originally designed to be mapped on one, (but I could be wrong as I don't know much about Greyhawk)
04-28-2008, 09:43 PM
It certainly wasn't! It was a flat map with an hexagonal grid which covers an area roughly between 15 to 55 degrees latitude - so as you'd expect the distances east-west across the map are actually shorter the further north you go.
The Oerth Journals (free for download - can I post websites on these forums?) numbers 3 and 4 go into detail about how this effects things much more eloquently than what I could of.
04-28-2008, 10:13 PM
Anna's working on putting greyhawk into Vue now which would make it feasible to put it onto a globe. The problem is filling in all the "missing" information of the world.
Plus the Cooperative Worldbuilding Project (http://www.cartographersguild.com/forumdisplay.php?f=55) is taking up a lot of people's time right now so perhaps the globe project can be the next big project if you can convince people to jump on board.
04-28-2008, 10:41 PM
There was an Article way back in the day by Roger Moore (not of James Bond but on a Par with Gygax) detailing the full globe of Greyhawk.
I'll see if I can find it.
04-29-2008, 02:12 AM
Oh, that would be cool I think.
Great to see all this interest in Greyhawk mapping :)
Making a globe map of the Oerth (the planet that Greyhawk is placed upon) is something I have thought of and made some test work on.
Oerth is a globe with two moons orbiting it, Luna and the smaller Celene. The circumference which I don’t remember you can find in the opening chapter in the Campaign guide published 1983.
Just like RPmiller wrote there are lots of “missing” or unexplored areas of Oerth. A project to fill in the missing part are underway at www.canonfire.com.
NeonKnights correctly points out an effort by Roger Moore (previous editor in chief of Dragon Magazine) to describe “the rest of Greyhawk”. TSR released a map sometime in the 80s which depicted the whole Oerth (see attachment). Several variants of that map has been made over the years.
When my mapping of the Flanaess has covered the whole continent I plan to make an overview map of the whole planet based on the available information. This maps obvious way of presentation is as a globe. Google Earth technology open up very interesting possibilities.
This is something I have had in the back in the back burner for a long time. Attachment 2 is a concept test I made using Bryce.
I concluded I needed a lot more info and better tools to make something worthy of pursuing further at the time.
Now with Vue and Google Earth the tools are there to make something spectacular. I made a test rendering of a spaceshot using Vue a few weeks ago, see this thread:
I will get to doing a globe map of the Oerth eventually, but I have more urgent Greyhawk projects to waste my time on at the moment.
Hopefully someone else will pick up the glove and show the world how Oerth looks like :)
04-29-2008, 12:01 PM
According to some of the old files I know of, I believe the actual planet name is Oerik not Oerth, or the two names can be interchangeable.
Many maps showing most of the Eastern Continent:
No map, but some details from Mr Roger Moore in Oerth Journal #3:
And the Follow Up Article in Oerth Journal #4: Measuring up the Oerth:
Good links NeonKnight :)
But one clarification, Oerik is the major continent on the planet Oerth. The Flanaess is the eastern part of Oerik.
So we don't teach anything superstitious ;)
05-01-2008, 09:22 PM
Am I right in thinking places like Mysteria, Blackmoor, the Petal Throne and Frank Mentzers Aquaria where all meant to be placed on Oerth? I've yet to have a shufty at these places - something I'll get around to soon.
I think you are. Blackmoor is a part of the Flanaess even, north of Iuz homeland is a barony named Blackmoor. I have a PDF of the original Blackmoor but I haven’t read it yet so I can’t say how well they are in tune.
The Petal Throne and Mysteria I don’t know anything about so I suggest you ask about them all at Canonfire.
05-03-2008, 03:41 AM
Mystara (not Mysteria) was a separate Campaign world from Greyhawk, but like Greyhawk had it's own version of Blackmoor present within in:
Mystara (like Greyhawk setting) also incorporated the Blackmoor setting by describing Blackmoor as evolving from a feudal kingdom into a highly advanced civilization, which existed in the distant past. The culture of Blackmoor unfortunately utilized more and more powerful, and destructive, technology. It ended itself in an apocalyptic explosion so devastating that it changed the climate and geography of the planet as a whole.
As to the Empire of the Petal Throne, from Wikipedia:
Barker was a Professor of Urdu and South Asian Studies at the University of Minnesota during the period when David Arneson, Gary Gygax and a handful of others were developing the first role-playing games in Minneapolis and Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. Barker tapped into this tradition to explore and develop the Tékumel setting. His "Thursday Night Groups" were some of the first roleplaying sessions anywhere and provided what was, at the time, a unique, week-by-week development of the setting.
In 1975, Tactical Studies Rules, Inc., the publishers of Dungeons & Dragons, published the Tékumel fantasy setting as a standalone game under the title of The Empire of the Petal Throne (a synonym for the Tsolyáni Empire). It brought a level of detail and quality to the campaign setting which had previously been unknown in the RPG industry, and could be considered a turning point away from the tactical roots of RPGs. The game was the subject of articles in early issues of Dragon Magazine, but factors including inconsistent support from TSR led to its decline in popularity. Over the subsequent thirty years several new games based on the Tékumel setting were published, but to date none have met with commercial success. While published as fantasy, this edition of the game is sometimes classified as science fantasy and erroneously as science fiction.
Finally, as to Frank Mentzer's Aquaria, the wikipedia entry lists the following nugget:
# The entire RPGA series of adventures based on Mentzer's own home "Aquaria" D&D campaign, coded R1 through R10. The R series of adventures was originally intended to form the basis of a new "Aqua-Oerdian" boxed set to expand upon the World of Greyhawk campaign setting, but these plans were shelved after Gygax left TSR in 1985.
# Module I-11, Needle (TSR, 1987).
05-04-2008, 02:24 AM
Oerik is, I believe, the continent.
Yup, and Oerth has, "four great continents and countless islands..."
Obviously, I am home with my personal library or Adjunct Brain as I call it.
05-07-2008, 11:23 PM
Ohh, It would be nice to see your work in 3d, but I would go the World Wind, instead of Google Earth, route, as custom terrain; ie the your actual 3d heightfield , can be imported as well as imagery.
I have run me-dem heightfields and imagery in World Wind quite easily, once I sussed the tiling conventions and higher resolution data sets....The difference between running your imagery over a matching heightfield (World Wind) and running it over the "served on the fly" real world terrain in Google Earth is night and day.
World Wind allows the pulling of terrain from a cache on your computer, or online, but Google Earths, at my last look, is not modifiable.
I did it via Global Mapper, to create the terrain .bil files, and a excel data sheet I wrote to locate the tile edges and generate the tile and folder names..and a little bit of xml modifications to World Winds terrain accessor. So it can be done , and perhaps future versions of World Wind will incorporate it.
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