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View Full Version : My First Map - Guneslidunyasi (The Sunkissed World)



Seleucus I
07-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Hi everyone,

I originally posted this map in the Finished Maps section (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?19379-Guneslidunyasi-(The-Sunkissed-World)), however, I was hoping for more feedback and more critiques. I think people may have been somewhat discouraged from suggesting changes to the map because of the forum I put it in, so I'm reposting it here in the hopes of getting more feedback. I'd like to print this out sometime and hang it on my wall, but given the cost of printing something this size, I'd like to make sure that everything is perfect before I go and spend a bunch of money on it. So all feedback and input is both welcome and encouraged.

My friend and I created this setting essentially as a way to combine all sorts of anachronisms. The world is on the inside of a hollow sphere with earth radiating outwards from the sphere in every direction (the earth is interspersed with water and magma, and the occasional cavern. This is in part why there are so many inland seas and lakes on the map - the connect down to deep reservoirs of water "outside" of the world, so to speak. In the center of the sphere is another sphere, which we may call the moon, which is solid. It radiates a gravity-like force outwards, thereby keeping people / animals / etc. anchored to the interior of the large sphere. Around the moon orbits a sunlet. It always stays in the same plane relative to the moon. This relates to the map as follows: moon is directly over Yeni Demirshehir, and the plane that the sun orbits on is perpendicular to it (this is no accident - the city was founded here for religious reasons). The entire sphere is thus bisected by the solar plane, creating a natural division of hemispheres for the otherworldly cartographer. Additionally, each of these two hemispheres have natural poles - the points directly under the moon and perpendicular to the solar plane. The directions on the compass rose are arbitrary; they point to four locations equally spaced around the globe which were decided by League geographers (the League of Guilds being the "Viewpoint Civilization" of the map) as navigational references. Though there is no magnetism to draw compasses towards them, they can be triangulated by explorers who know the position of the sun and their own position, or who can find familiar landmarks on land curved "up" from them. I could have named the directions anything; I stuck with North, East, South, and West so as to try and avoid overwhelming my players with too much new terminology and thus increase their immersion. (Attached to this post is a quick graphic I made in MS Paint to try and help illustrate what I said above)

The languages used on the map are intended to reflect something of the culture for the area they represent, and within the history I have constructed for the setting, I have tried to place them as realistically as possible. The two main languages and their heartlands are Turkish in the Shadowed Empire (SW of the map, outlined in red) and German in the central chain of mountains that runs through the central continent. A long time before the map was made, the Shadowed Empire governed most of the area mapped, and as such there are still a lot of place names in the League of Guilds and surrounding areas that are Turkish in origin. However, eventually the Empire entered a period of decay, and was forced to withdraw from the mainland; into this vacuum came the Germanic tribes, who in some cases used the old names, and in other cases gave ares new names. Many of these heavily Germanic names survive in more isolated regions such as the area between the Kus Dagalari and the Ekmek Dagalari. However, around the coast frequent interactions with other cultures led to linguistic drift, giving rise to League Common (ie: English). I realize this doesn't make an enormous amount of sense, since League Common should logically be a mix of Turkish and German, while English is (generally speaking) from French, Norse, and Anglo-Saxon, but the League is intended to be the starting point for my players, and as such I wanted them to feel "at home" there, so to speak. Regarding other languages on the map: in the NW is the Babbage Technocracy, who speak Dutch. They were a tributary state to the Shadowed Empire at its height, and as such have no Turkish place-names. In the West, North East, East, and South East are found French, Nahtul, Malay, and Welsh, respectively. These areas have less of a direct impact on the League, and are primarily far off trading partners. A final note about the languages: I speak English, French, and a little Turkish. For the rest of the languages, I used online translators, so problems may abound.

And... I think that's pretty much it. I've posted a highly compressed version of the map below; the post in the Finished Maps forum has the map in full resolution in fourths (Although these are a little out of date). Please tell if you have questions / comments / suggestions / etc.

-Seleucus

Moskva
07-31-2012, 12:18 PM
I had to laugh really hard at the dutch names on the map. Some of them really don't make any sense :P

Especially Stadje is something you can't use in the name of a city

Some examples:
Kleinestadje = Little Little City
Noordwestenlandstreek = Noordwesterstreek or Noordwesterland Landstreek is a bit double
Further no use of - and Westelijk Zee = Westerzee Groot Meer = Grootmeer.


If you would like some better city names I can help you out.

Helderhaven is a nice name.

Try not to use nord/west/east and south with city names so often.

Very nice map further, very detailed!

Seleucus I
07-31-2012, 03:00 PM
Hi Moskva, thanks for your post, and I'm glad you like the map.
Like I said, I used online translators for a lot of the names, so there's bound to be some wierdness. I would welcome help in changing them to better names. That said, there are some peculiarities in universe about the Babbage Technocracy. The Technocracy is intended to be a very centralized, authoritarian state, where the purpose of the state is largely to serve the capitol, Babbagestad. The central government has a very mechanical and logical way of viewing the world, and to that end, most of the important cities and towns in the Technocracy have been renamed to be more descriptive of their location or relative importance. They have extended this same rigid view to the naming of their geographical features and oceans (hence all the noord / zuid / west / etc. names), while the smaller and less important towns got by without a name change. However, having said that, I see a number of towns around Helder Plas that use such a naming scheme despite not being in the Technocracy - I expect by that point, I was running out of names!
So yeah, if you would like to help me come up with better names and suggestions, I would welcome the help!
Responses to the specific examples:
Kleinestadje - I think the meaning I wanted was along of the lines of "Little Village." Suggestions?
Nordwestenlandstreek - I will change this to Noordwesterstreek, and likewise will change Westenlandstreek to Westerlandstreek
Westelijk Zee and Groot Meer - I will change these to Westerzee and Grootmeer, as suggested.
Thanks,

-Seleucus

Moskva
07-31-2012, 03:49 PM
Hi Moskva, thanks for your post, and I'm glad you like the map.
Like I said, I used online translators for a lot of the names, so there's bound to be some wierdness. I would welcome help in changing them to better names. That said, there are some peculiarities in universe about the Babbage Technocracy. The Technocracy is intended to be a very centralized, authoritarian state, where the purpose of the state is largely to serve the capitol, Babbagestad. The central government has a very mechanical and logical way of viewing the world, and to that end, most of the important cities and towns in the Technocracy have been renamed to be more descriptive of their location or relative importance. They have extended this same rigid view to the naming of their geographical features and oceans (hence all the noord / zuid / west / etc. names), while the smaller and less important towns got by without a name change. However, having said that, I see a number of towns around Helder Plas that use such a naming scheme despite not being in the Technocracy - I expect by that point, I was running out of names!
So yeah, if you would like to help me come up with better names and suggestions, I would welcome the help!
Responses to the specific examples:
Kleinestadje - I think the meaning I wanted was along of the lines of "Little Village." Suggestions?
Nordwestenlandstreek - I will change this to Noordwesterstreek, and likewise will change Westenlandstreek to Westerlandstreek
Westelijk Zee and Groot Meer - I will change these to Westerzee and Grootmeer, as suggested.
Thanks,

-Seleucus

Ok here's a name change list. Note its massive but a lot of small changes some grammatical changes , some advices :

Stadje = dorp or if its really small > gehucht.

Haagstad > Haag (stad is not common in a city name)
Gulf of Peace > Vredesgolf (if you would like it in Dutch ahah)
The Nothern Wall > De Noordelijke Muur / Noordermuur
Diederik Kaap > Diederikskaap
Heraut Baai > Herautenbaai
Oostelijkstad > Oosterstad , Oosterkolonie (Kolonie because its somewhat seperated from the rest)
Oosten Hooglanden > Oostelijke Hooglanden (eastern highlands)
Noord-Berg > Noorderberg, Noordberg, Noordpiek (Piek = peak or Heuvel = hill) so Noorderheuvel/ Noorderpiek, noorderheuvel or without er
Eerste Eiland > Het Eerste Eiland or
Eilandstadje > Eilanddorp
Kleinestadje > Het gehucht
Havenstadje > Havendorp
Noordelijkstad > Noorderstad
Noordwestenlandstreek > Noordwesterland
Westenlandstreek > westerland
Noordwester-kanaal > Noordwesterzeeëngte (kanaal = dug out )
Blauwe Eiland > het blauwe eiland / blauweiland
Zuidwester Zee > de zuidwester / zuidwesterzee
zuiderlijkstadje > zuiderpunt
westelijkstad > westerstad
roodbaarsstadje > roodbaarsdorp
zeekreeftstadje > Kreeftendorp (zee = sea the town in not on the sea)
eerste eiland > oudeiland (old island)
eerste stadje > oudestad
resemboolstadje > merendorp (between lakes)
babbagestad > centraalstad, overheidsstad (centralcity, the governement, governmentcity)

Rivierburcht > rivierburg
rodeplaats > rode
helder plas > heldermeer (its not a plas)
plasstadje > plas = taking a leak too so i advice > De Oever/Oever (lakeside)
zuidestad > its north of the lake so > noordhelder ?
Havenplaats > Waterburg


Some generic easy names you can use for smaller places would be Beek, Broek, Velden, Donk, Dijk, Dam (small rivier, fields)

woomia
07-31-2012, 08:11 PM
That map is unreal with it's coloring and decor. Amazing!

Seleucus I
07-31-2012, 08:47 PM
@moskva - many thanks; I will update all of those for the next version (which ought to be sometime this weekend) with the exception of Babbagestad, because Babbage is a proper noun in this case, so its intended meaning is something along the lines of "The City of Babbage" or "Babbage's City." Everything else I will definitely change, though.
@woomia - I'm glad you like it! It's been about a year in the making, so it ought to look pretty good!

Seleucus I
08-04-2012, 03:18 PM
Uploaded an updated map with most of the dutch names changes, as per moskva's suggestions. I kept the Northern Wall in English instead of Dutch because that is the League name for that mountain range. Also, many of the fixes moskva suggested for bodies of water were only one line; however, I needed them to be two lines to make the map work visually, and as such had no choice but to break them up at appropriate-sounding places. This may require another fix in the near future.

woomia
08-05-2012, 12:01 AM
Still awesome. It's one of those maps that makes me want to write something set in it.

Moskva
08-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Uploaded an updated map with most of the dutch names changes, as per moskva's suggestions. I kept the Northern Wall in English instead of Dutch because that is the League name for that mountain range. Also, many of the fixes moskva suggested for bodies of water were only one line; however, I needed them to be two lines to make the map work visually, and as such had no choice but to break them up at appropriate-sounding places. This may require another fix in the near future.

Thats a bit of a problem with the language. Its just like German we don't really break up words.

nichollsr
08-06-2012, 01:28 AM
Love it in a strangely bizarre over the top kind of way - well done you !

Seleucus I
08-07-2012, 08:04 PM
@moskva: Yeah, I was afraid of that, but the names (particularly for the bodies of water) really didn't look right and didn't convey the right information when they were just one line, so I felt it was best if I split them on two. I suppose this means that the people of the Babbage Technocracy speak "almost Dutch" instead of real Dutch.

@nichollsr: I'm glad you like it. I'm curious, though - what do you mean by over the top?

woomia
08-12-2012, 06:59 PM
I think he meant...let me see if I can explain. Compared to other maps here it is very elaborately decorated. I also think it's over the top but I think this a good thing. It really makes the map stand out (and fires up my imagination).

Seleucus I
08-16-2012, 10:22 PM
Ah, good. I was hoping for that sort of reaction. I want the map to inspire my players to want to explore the world I've created, and I'm glad that it seems to be doing its job.

jbgibson
08-18-2012, 05:49 PM
It's fair enough that the language be near-Dutch, since you aren't depicting, say, a colony descended from Earth's Netherlands. No more than a random fantasy land should have precise English as its language - such congruence is convenience (reader's language) or (other languages) meant to evoke an echo of the place or people you're borrowing from, or even just to show there are widely variant cultures afoot. Mind you I too am compulsive enough to try to get things 'right' when I borrow.

Maybe it would be enough to put in tiny print or in your WIP thread a disclaimer like at the start of novels : "This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places, languages, and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental." :-)

REALLY nice map, by the way.

woomia
08-19-2012, 07:01 PM
I don't think we should be nit picking about language on his map.

Seleucus I
08-20-2012, 12:40 AM
I don't mind. I agree completely with jbgibson's comments about using language, and have used it as such. That said, it does bother me that I haven't gotten it totally right, so I'm happy for corrections from native speakers.

Arylaya
08-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Really nice map ! I would like to point out some minor details : firstly, there are some ugly pixels here and there, I believe it's due to compression problems but I suggest that, in the final picture, you use a non-destructive format such as .png. Also, more language issues : Gris Rivière would be Rivière Grise, and Vertbois Rivière would be Rivière Vertbois (or Rivière du Bois Vert, I think it's nicer but not as close to the name you chose as the former).
About the pictures you put in the corners, it's a great idea but the color difference between them and the map bothers me a bit.

Seleucus I
08-24-2012, 10:54 PM
Vous avez riason, bien sur, a propos des noms; je ne peut pas croire que j'ai fait une faute si facile! As for the pixels, that's because I had to use an enormous compression factor when converting the file from .xcf to .jpeg - the uncompressed .jpeg file was almost four times larger that the max site upload limit! If you want to see what the uncompressed map looks like, the original post has a link to the thread in the finished maps sections, which has the map uploaded in quarters. However, the version of the map in the finished maps section is unfortunately somewhat out of date; a number of minor issues there remain unresolved (ie: the Dutch City names, and a variety of small fixes I didn't bother to mention on this thread). As for the corner pictures, I know what you mean. They somewhat compete with the map for attention - perhaps I could decrease the opacity subtly, or desaturate them so that the map appears more interesting.

Seleucus I
08-26-2012, 11:46 PM
After thinking about what Arylaya said, I decided to experiment with the color balance of the borders a little to make them demand less visual attention than the map. Below is what I came up with. What do you guys think? Better, worse, practically no different?

47828

Schwarzkreuz
09-05-2012, 09:06 PM
nice to see where al the ships ended up!