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Elvith Gent
05-24-2008, 03:24 AM
Hi !

First I want to say I'm French, so don't worry about my english, it's "normal" ^^

So I just finished my map, following RobA's tuto. What do you think of this ?

If you want more information about my world and if you speak french, go to my website (http://www.niil.fr).

And bravo RobA and Carthographers' Guild !

Redrobes
05-24-2008, 06:59 AM
Bienvenue,

I liked both maps actually ! The second is a little prettier but I think the first is clearer to read.

Elvith Gent
05-24-2008, 07:33 AM
Thanks ! Ok, one of my friend agree with you. So I think it's true ^^
I am actually doing a third, in parchment style. When it'll be finished, I'll post it.

edit : on the RobA style map, I delete the old compass and put instead of the Carthographers' Guild's Compass ^^

Elvith Gent
05-24-2008, 10:54 AM
So, this is the new version : parchment version (http://niil.chez-alice.fr/1_histoire_et_geographie/carte_parcho.jpg)
What do you think ? :)

jfrazierjr
05-24-2008, 11:10 AM
Bienvenue,

I liked both maps actually ! The second is a little prettier but I think the first is clearer to read.

I agree with Redrobes. Either way, you have talent, but I personally prefer the first version and your parchment version.

Joe

Midgardsormr
05-24-2008, 11:56 AM
I agree. I like the original, too. The parchment version would be terrific for a hand-out. You could really push the water stains by blurring the map underneath them. It would make it even less legible, of course.

Elvith Gent
05-24-2008, 11:56 AM
Thanks. I thought peoples prefer second version, but I see it's not true ...
The parchment version was realised with the help of RobA's tuto Creating old, weathered paper using the Gimp and with my "talent" ^^

edit : because of yours remarks, I retouch parchment version : more blur underneath water stains ; drop shadow ; creases. What do you think ?

jfrazierjr
05-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Very nice. Looking forward to seeing more from you.

As a side note, when posting, you can use the manage attachments button to upload a copy of your original map, and the post will show a thumbnail. When clicking on the thumbnail, the full size original will then show.


Joe

Elvith Gent
05-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Thanks, thanks ! But I only do what RobA do in these tutos ... This map is my first map, and I worked hard on this. But the result is because of RobA ! Thanks to him !

Ok, I put thumbnails in the first post. Thanks for the note.

Karro
05-24-2008, 04:31 PM
I agree, the original is still a great map. It has a certain style and charm.

One thing I'm hoping to be able to learn to do using GIMP and whatnot is to be able to produce different kinds of maps in different styles like this minimal extra effort.

landorl
05-24-2008, 07:59 PM
I like the first one. I like the cartoon like colors that you used.

DanChops
05-25-2008, 02:10 AM
I agree with everyone else - these are some nice maps. I'm going to have to play around with that old paper tutorial sometime - you got stunning results in that parchement map.

A thought about the forests on your GIMP map. I've found that duplicating the mountain instructions for the forests creates overly exaggerated forests, at least for my tastes. I tweaked (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showpost.php?p=20672&postcount=33) the forest steps a bit in my WIP map and found that the forests came out a bit more natural and subtle looking.

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 02:21 AM
Thanks ! I didn't think original is a very great map, but if you say it is, it is ^^

I'm going to try with your method for forests. I will post the result.


Thanks, DanChops ! I didn't apply all your technique (because I didn't understand ... Can you explain more precisely ? Can you do screenshots ?), but I change clouds for plasma and I think it's already really better. Are you agree ?
Result :

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 06:24 AM
I do a new parchment version but older, more damaged.

I think you will like it ^^

DanChops
05-25-2008, 07:24 AM
I'm going to try with your method for forests. I will post the result.

Thanks, DanChops ! I didn't apply all your technique (because I didn't understand ... Can you explain more precisely ? Can you do screenshots ?), but I change clouds for plasma and I think it's already really better. Are you agree ?

I agree, simply doing plasma clouds in place of solid noise clouds gives the forest a better look. Sorry about the lack of clarity in my explanation in the other thread; I'll try putting together some screenshots together to explain what I did a bit more clearly later today after work.


I do a new parchment version but older, more damaged.

I think you will like it ^^

I love the hole in the middle. Very nice. Is there anyway to smooth out the edges of the paper so they don't look quite so pixelated?

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 08:55 AM
I think it should be better. I apply a 3 px gaussian blur to the Fuzz layer's border. I let the precedent version to compare.

jfrazierjr
05-25-2008, 10:21 AM
For me at least, the reason I really like the first(and third) version is your cliffs at the norther edge of the map. They look nice and really make the cliffs stand out. With the 2nd version, it just looks out of place. You might want to add some highlights in grey to the cliff face to simular ridges in the cliff. Perhaps someone else would have some other suggestions also.

Joe

DanChops
05-25-2008, 10:41 AM
Here's a step-by-step on how I made my forests, with screen shots to help explain where my words aren't quite up to snuff.

1- With all my geographic features, I find myself starting with a transparent layer and sketching a rough outline in black of where I want the feature to be. So, with the forests, I start out with the sketch:

3882

2- I fill in the forest area with white, the rest with black, and apply the Gaussian blur. This is the first layer of Rob's Three-Layer Sandwich (the TLS.)

3883

3- This is where I start to diverge a bit from Rob's instructions. I fill the middle "noise" layer with plasma clouds (Filter-->Render-->Clouds-->Plasma) instead of solid noise clouds. I set the turbulence as high as it can go in order to get lots of detail in the edges of the forest.

3887

This results in a kaleidescope of color:

3888

4- I create the clip layer of the TLS according to Rob's instructions, adjust the color levels, and end up with this:

3889

(I've reached my per-post maximum of five attached files. To be continued in the next post...)

DanChops
05-25-2008, 10:56 AM
5- Create a Forest mask as per Rob's instructions.

3890

6- Do the "Copy Visible" and paste as a new layer trick that Rob demonstrates. You end up with something like this:

3891

7- One problem is that there are all the colors of the rainbow in this layer. Set your colors to black (foreground) and white (background) and do a gradient map (Colors-->Map-->Gradient Map). This puts the layer back into grayscale.

3892

8- Normalize the colors to stretch the color range out (Colors-->Auto-->Normalize)

3893

9- Make a copy of this layer for later, and then do a gradient map with your forest colors:

3894

(Notice that since the colors I used for the grass and the forest are similar, it's difficult to distinguish them at this point.)

DanChops
05-25-2008, 11:32 AM
10- The next major point of departure between this method and the one Rob outlines is that I do two bump maps. The first is to give the illusion of height relative to the surrounding area. I call that the height-bump map. The second is to give the illusion of a bit of height variance within the forest. I call that the texture-bump map.

For the height bump map, follow Rob’s directions. Name the grayscale copy of “Forest Color” you made earlier “Forest Height Bump Map.” Create a new layer set to overlay, filled with neutral gray, and do a bump map with the “Forest Height Bump Map” set as the source of the map. I keep the depth pretty low (at 10) and the elevation moderately high (at 50).

3898

3899

11- For the texture bump map, create a new layer set to overlay, filled with neutral gray, and do a bump map with the “Forest Texture” layer set as the source of the map. (That’s the middle layer of the earlier TLS filled with plasma clouds.) Be sure to apply the forest mask

3900

3901

DanChops
05-25-2008, 11:39 AM
12- Finally, to add some color variation to the forests, add yet another layer set to overlay, filled with neutral gray and with the forest mask applied. Run a plasma cloud render with the turbulence set somewhere in the middle (I used 5.)

3902

This will result in multicolored forests:

3903

Set your colors to black and white again, and run a gradient map on the forest texture layer. The results should look something like this:

3904

I hope this helps!

DanChops
05-25-2008, 11:45 AM
I think it should be better. I apply a 3 px gaussian blur to the Fuzz layer's border. I let the precedent version to compare.

I think that Gaussian Blur is the way to go here. Unfortunately, however, I can't see the new version, only the original one. Maybe you could upload it again?


For me at least, the reason I really like the first(and third) version is your cliffs at the norther edge of the map. They look nice and really make the cliffs stand out.

Here Joe puts his finger on what I like so much about he maps. The cliffs look great!

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the precise tuto. I have my new forests, now we can compare. What version is the best ? RobA (page 1) ? DanChops (here) ? Or mixt (page 2) ?

I'm now going to look for better cliffs ...

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 12:23 PM
So, what did I do to the cliffs ?

First, I do a Cliffs mask. Secondly, I create a Cliffs texture layer and add the mask.
Then, I played with filters. And ... I think it's nice ! ^^

DanChops
05-25-2008, 01:39 PM
So, what did I do to the cliffs ?

First, I do a Cliffs mask. Secondly, I create a Cliffs texture layer and add the mask.
Then, I played with filters. And ... I think it's nice ! ^^

Those are looking quite nice! Great way to dress up the cliffs. I might suggest doing a very small (like 3 or 4 pixels small) Gaussian blur on the texture layer, just to help it blend a bit more. (Can you tell that I prefer a smoother look?)

jfrazierjr
05-25-2008, 02:32 PM
I agree with Dan. The cliffs now look 10 times better, but with a bit more playing you could make them look even better. Right now, they are flat due to the hard edges. Also, feel free to try multiple techniques. I have been playing with both solid noise and plasma for mountains, and though I have not gotten anything I love quite yet, I think I am close.

Elvith Gent
05-25-2008, 03:06 PM
Ok, I applied a 3px blur.
Then, I looked for any other amelioration, but I did not find. It is out of my skills ^^
Does someone have an idea ?

jfrazierjr
05-25-2008, 04:19 PM
Ok, I applied a 3px blur.
Then, I looked for any other amelioration, but I did not find. It is out of my skills ^^
Does someone have an idea ?

That's better, but I would still play with the original layer and try to get the hard lines a bit more irregular. I included a screen cap. See how the lines are all straight? You would not have to do much, but a bit of randomization on the lines "down" your cliff face would help a lot. You don't need a ton, just a few squigles a pixel or two off the baseline, and it does not need to be every line (ie, there can be some straight ones.) Again, just my two cents.

Joe

DanChops
05-26-2008, 12:13 AM
Ok, I applied a 3px blur.
Then, I looked for any other amelioration, but I did not find. It is out of my skills ^^
Does someone have an idea ?

The cliff faces look great. The blur really helped the look a lot.


That's better, but I would still play with the original layer and try to get the hard lines a bit more irregular. I included a screen cap. See how the lines are all straight? You would not have to do much, but a bit of randomization on the lines "down" your cliff face would help a lot. You don't need a ton, just a few squigles a pixel or two off the baseline, and it does not need to be every line (ie, there can be some straight ones.) Again, just my two cents.

I'll echo what Joe said. If you can get the vertical lines a bit less straight, I think you'll have a pretty sweet cliff face there.

Lookin' good Elvith.

RobA
05-26-2008, 01:47 AM
Try a texture like this for your cliff:
3928

(I just made it up...)

Paint a hard line at the top of the cliff face.
Select the cliff face area.
Enlarge the selection to include the stroke.
Filter->Noise->Slur, and repeat it a few times with different amounts. This randomly pulls down pixels through the cliff face selection.
Do a motion blur at 270degrees (straight down), setting the length of the blur to the size of the cliff.
Add a layer, fill the selection 50% grey.
Bump map the solid layer, using the streaky blurred one as the source, set layer to 50% opacity.
Duplicate layer, set to overlay, 100%

Here are the three layers I have, l-r: blurred slurs, 40% normal, 100% overlay:
3929

-Rob A>

DanChops
05-26-2008, 02:21 AM
Try a texture like this for your cliff:
3928

(I just made it up...)

Paint a hard line at the top of the cliff face.
Select the cliff face area.
Enlarge the selection to include the stroke.
Filter->Noise->Slur, and repeat it a few times with different amounts. This randomly pulls down pixels through the cliff face selection.
Do a motion blur at 270degrees (straight down), setting the length of the blur to the size of the cliff.
Add a layer, fill the selection 50% grey.
Bump map the solid layer, using the streaky blurred one as the source, set layer to 50% opacity.
Duplicate layer, set to overlay, 100%

Here are the three layers I have, l-r: blurred slurs, 40% normal, 100% overlay:
3929

-Rob A>

Yup, it's official. Rob's a freaking GIMP wizard.

jfrazierjr
05-26-2008, 11:23 AM
Try a texture like this for your cliff:
3928

(I just made it up...)



That so totally rocks RobA.

Joe

Elvith Gent
05-26-2008, 04:40 PM
Woow ! It's awesome ^^
RobA, you totally rock !

Thanks !!! :)

jfrazierjr
05-26-2008, 05:51 PM
Woow ! It's awesome ^^
RobA, you totally rock !

Thanks !!! :)

This looks tons better(not that the other one was bad), and a lot more natural and blended.

Joe

Arkkeeper
05-26-2008, 08:02 PM
Seeing Foreign Maps is really cool, I know I have really never thought about the Geek Scene outside of English-Speakers and The Japanese, Very cool man

RobA
05-27-2008, 12:59 AM
No Probs!

Most of the things I end up with in the GIMP are through trial and error. And a lot of just goofing around. The cliffs turned out better than I expected....just glad for the "undo" palette that let me go back and see how I had done it :P

-Rob A>

DanChops
05-27-2008, 02:11 AM
This looks tons better(not that the other one was bad), and a lot more natural and blended.

Joe

Exactly what I was going to say.

Elvith Gent
05-27-2008, 01:36 PM
I think we are nearly finished.

So, does anybody else want I change something ? (I'm not sure of this sentence ... ^^)

jfrazierjr
05-27-2008, 01:59 PM
I think we are near to the end ?!

So, does anybody else want I change something ? (I'm not sure of this sentence ... ^^)

The forests are great!

You might want to consider putting a bit more blur between some of your transitions from grass to dirt, especially the one in the top center. There is a lot of spread there.

Also, consider adding a high cloud bump map to parts (just perhaps random selections instead of the whole thing) of the dirt layer(or a copy) with very low depth and fairly high elevation. Just enough to get a little rolling hills going on and then blend this in with spread/blur.

These two things are not 100% necessary as it's a very nice as it is, but I would probably try to see if I could get a bit more terrain variation.

Joe

Elvith Gent
05-27-2008, 03:17 PM
Ok, thanks for the help.
This is the new version, following your instructions.
The hills noise is plasma and the bump is duplicated four times.

jfrazierjr
05-27-2008, 06:49 PM
Ok, thanks for the help.
This is the new version, following your instructions.
The hills noise is plasma and the bump is duplicated four times.

Very nice. Not exactly what I was getting at with the hills, but will do (though it may be a bit much to many bump map applications for my taste.) I would probably move or make larger the hills around Pelis and try to blend them into the mountains (perhaps making several "layers", each with different amounts to make it less "hilly" as it gets further out.) As always, this is just my opinion, do what you think looks nice.

Joe

Elvith Gent
05-28-2008, 08:28 AM
Add high hills around Pelis is a really good idea ! I add a clouds noise, bump and duplicated four times, like for hills. And I like the result !

Arkkeeper
05-29-2008, 10:43 AM
I think we are near to the end ?!

So, does anybody else want I change something ? (I'm not sure of this sentence ... ^^)

Not that we couldn't understand you but You would say it like this:

I think we are nearly finished. (or if it was a question: Are we almost there?)

So, does anybody else think there is something I should change? (Of course your sentence would have worked fine if the I was "me to")

Elvith Gent
05-29-2008, 12:58 PM
Ok, thanks for the correction ^^
So, does anybody else think there is something I should change?

jfrazierjr
05-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Ok, thanks for the correction ^^
So, does anybody else think there is something I should change?

heh... should is a strong word... it tends to mean "the right way to do it". There are many other things you could do, it all depends on how much extra work you want to do. As it is, this is a very nice map, especially for a GIMP newbie (which I am also!)

Things you could (not should) try:

Get the mountains to blend more into the surrounding terrain. Particularly the mountains to desert transition is bit harsh. Perhaps new layers with slightly larger borders than the mountains with an intermediate color or even a gradient fill.
Give the rivers and/or lakes/sea/oceans a small bevel
Pics de Burdin looks a bit to round
I can't really tell, but does the desert have an texture?


It's hard to tell some of these things since the jpg is not a really high resolution (which may be a good thing.)

Again, it is great just as it is in it's current form, it's all a matter of when you are happy with it. Also, some subscribe to the philosophy that less is more and in some cases they are right.

Personally, I would still use your second map as a player handout because it like the parchment and no color style. And I would have no problem using the first map as a DM reference, or even as an example "painting" in a king/duke/etc castle that would give the players a better feel for the world. Other than an exercise in being more versatile/learning GIMP, you have enough artistic talent that you do not have to have another style of the same map.

Joe

Arkkeeper
05-29-2008, 03:14 PM
Good Point.

Elvith Gent
11-14-2008, 07:31 PM
I have done a new version, using another way to do mountains. I also have added snow and a lot of new labels.
I prefer this version. Do you agree ?

Gamerprinter
11-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Elvith, nice job! The base of the mountains now blend well with their background terrains very well.

I think if you softened the based of those cliffs up north as well, this map would be more pleasing. Otherwise, very good job.

Have some REP!

GP

Elvith Gent
11-15-2008, 03:30 AM
Thanks !

Do you think this one is better ? I'm note sure.

Redrobes
11-15-2008, 08:48 AM
Yes I think its better. The map overall is better than the ones previously and its good to see you back again. I'll add some rep too.

Steel General
11-15-2008, 09:04 AM
This is coming along very nicely...

I dub thee newly repped *bonk*

Elvith Gent
11-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Ok, ok. Good point.

Hum, I'm feeling ridiculous ... what is "REP" ? :)

Redrobes
11-15-2008, 01:57 PM
Oh just a little reputation which is shown on the left. Its an indicator of how much cool stuff you have posted up.

Elvith Gent
11-15-2008, 06:36 PM
Ok, I understand. Thanks ^^

Ascension
11-15-2008, 10:14 PM
And not just maps or tutorials qualify as cool stuff.

Elvith Gent
11-16-2008, 04:50 AM
This is a new version.

I have added rivers bevel, noise next to the cliff (I like) and white waves next to the cliff and the islands.

RobA
11-17-2008, 03:56 PM
The river bevel really helps them stand out. I think your could even go with a larger but softer bevel on the rivers.

-Rob A>

Elvith Gent
11-20-2008, 02:48 AM
Ok, I'll try to do it.

Elvith Gent
11-29-2008, 05:28 AM
You were right (you are always right ^^), it's better.

RobA
11-30-2008, 04:22 PM
heh Not always :)

-Rob A>

Elvith Gent
04-30-2009, 07:02 PM
Hi !
This is the new version of this amazing map ;)
I hope you'll like it !

Ascension
04-30-2009, 09:54 PM
Pretty nice; the mountains look good and that cliff across the north is cool. The fonts look very nice too and I'm assuming this is a shrunk-down version so they probably look better at full scale. Nice job.

Elvith Gent
05-01-2009, 02:03 AM
Thanks, but there is a problem ... It is not a shrunk down version (or maybe a little bit ; try to download the map and see if it is better, I believe that the thumbnail is a little bit shrank) !
So, what do you think ? Duplicate the "Labels Outline" layer might make the labels stronger.
In the precedent version, I have two layers for each outline. But they appear too strong to me. But it seems you are right ...

Is this one better ?

PS : forgive my poor english ...

Ascension
05-01-2009, 07:08 AM
If I get closer to the screen I can read the smaller labels better. It looks fine as is or in the previous version except for one thing...the labels for the forests should probably be stronger or have a darker glow.

Steel General
05-01-2009, 07:28 AM
The fonts in green (w/green outline) are a bit difficult to read (at least for me), but not overtly so. The rest seem OK.

Elvith Gent
05-20-2009, 04:43 PM
Ok, I had changed this.
Thanks for your comments, they were very useful !