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The Cartographist
06-02-2008, 04:19 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen! Humans, dwarves, and elves! (And all you other assorted mapping enthusiasts.)

What happened to the fervor for the World Building Project? Actually, I can tell you: The May Challenge. Nothing wrong with that EXCEPT now that the challenge is done, it's time to get back to world building.

There hasn't been an addition to the wiki since the 22nd (Thanks for that, Baziron).

Remember: Your skill level as a cartographer does not matter. Pick a location and go!!

ravells
06-02-2008, 04:26 PM
Yay! See my latest post in the WIP / Cities forum!

Redrobes
06-02-2008, 05:16 PM
I think that May Challenge got everyone a bit excited / distracted y'know. Well I got a church out of it ! SeerBlue has done some great GMaps (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2026) and a bit of a write up for some stuff in my area which I need to add as soon as I can get to it.

Airith
06-02-2008, 07:01 PM
yeah, I've kind of noticed that as well, not many posts lately. (ok I haven't made any either... :()

Midgardsormr
06-03-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm trying! It's been a bit of a struggle to get computer time lately. Plus, I'm having a hard time getting north-facing cliffs on a standard orientation map (North is up) to look good. I might have to rethink my layout... or perhaps the POV. Hmm...

Bohunk
06-03-2008, 02:56 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen! Humans, dwarves, and elves! (And all you other assorted mapping enthusiasts.)

What happened to the fervor for the World Building Project? Actually, I can tell you: The May Challenge. Nothing wrong with that EXCEPT now that the challenge is done, it's time to get back to world building.

There hasn't been an addition to the wiki since the 22nd (Thanks for that, Baziron).

Remember: Your skill level as a cartographer does not matter. Pick a location and go!!

I would not mind trying my hand at this CWBP, but I don't know how to get started. You say "pick a location and go" but what are the locations?

I have read through alot of this site and the wiki but can't find what to do next.

Oh and I have to say I love, absolutely love your sig midgard!

SeerBlue
06-03-2008, 03:23 PM
I guess location is any town,village,city, or perhaps feature, that is named on the map.. Some may have an entry on the Wiki to give you a bit of back story, or the lands creator may have some info tucked away. So you can look at the maps here, or at Ins Carto (http://maps.me-dem.org/InsCarto/GoogleMaps/Gmaps.htm) and find something that catches your eye and then contact the Lands Cartographer and let them know.

And then just jump right in. For Snapgallows, which I am mapping, and which lies in Redrobes Thrubmorton Fen, I read through his wiki entries to get the flavor of the over all country and then looked around the area it lies in to get a feel for the terrain/ border areas/ environment. From that you can pickout or surmise what type of buildings (stone or log), if fields would be for grazing or plowing and so on..

SeerBlue

Torq
06-03-2008, 05:03 PM
Thanks Seer. I couldn't have put it better. Exactly what he said Bohunk. Have a look at the region maps and choose a settlement mapped on one of them. Seerblue's site shows you who the area mapper is so just drop them a line. Would you prefer city scale or individual small areas of battlemap or VTT size?

Torq

Bohunk
06-03-2008, 11:15 PM
Actually I would prefer a region, I am not that good at city mapping but I suppose I can give it a try. Got a city for me to map?

Torq
06-04-2008, 02:54 AM
Actually Bohunk, if you would prefer a regional area to map we still have two areas unclaimed out of 30 in the first section that we are mapping. Take a look at this post http://www.cartographersguild.com/showpost.php?p=20886&postcount=213, and you will see a map with the two remaining. You are welcome to take one or both of those areas if you want to rather than doing a more local map.

Torq

Bohunk
06-04-2008, 08:04 AM
Give me #26 for now and if #4 is still available when I'm done I'll take it. Is there a FT file that goes with this?

Torq
06-04-2008, 09:31 AM
Sure thing #26 is yours. Welcome to the project, its great to have you here. There is a FT file. Its to be found in the thread "Thinking big....". There is a height field too.

Torq

jfrazierjr
06-04-2008, 09:42 AM
Sure thing #26 is yours. Welcome to the project, its great to have you here. There is a FT file. Its to be found in the thread "Thinking big....". There is a height field too.

Torq

And I think I will take #4. Just enough mountainous terrain to really give my new mountain technique a try I think from the regional scale.

BTW, is there a more detailed/higher resolution height map around/available?

Joe

RobA
06-04-2008, 10:05 AM
What about regional maps that don't line up with the initial squares? I'm thinking some local regional maps, etc.

-Rob A>

Torq
06-04-2008, 11:03 AM
And I think I will take #4. Just enough mountainous terrain to really give my new mountain technique a try I think from the regional scale.

BTW, is there a more detailed/higher resolution height map around/available?

Joe

Of course JFJ, #4 is yours. A hearty welcome to the CWBP. Thanks for stepping in. That completes the entire first region.

Remember to post our work on the area as you go in a new thread.

Torq

Torq
06-04-2008, 11:04 AM
What about regional maps that don't line up with the initial squares? I'm thinking some local regional maps, etc.

-Rob A>

Hey Rob. If you're talking about smaller more zoomed in areas within the larger regions, yes definately. There is no set scale for the next level down so you could do a mountain range, swamp or forest or any local area. Do you have one in mind?

Torq

RobA
06-04-2008, 01:47 PM
I was thinking of mapping this area:

4126

Ss a navigation/sea/lake chart with proposals to construct a series of locks and channels (or actual?) , bypassing the swamps of the south to extend ocean trade from the sea to the eastern part of the region 3 kingdom, which has not bed drawn. I wanted to drop a city on the NE corner of that lake as a the access point into the mountain areas....

Got to read the CWBP wiki writeups on these areas first, though...

-Rob A>

Torq
06-04-2008, 02:16 PM
I think that would be a very cool idea. You will need to check whats been done in the wiki already and also liase with the mappers whose territories surround the area. I know some of the maps, although not yet posted, are in the works. So I would drop them a line and check out the ideas they may have for the area. Its a great plan though and I look forward to seeing it unfold.

Torq

Redrobes
06-04-2008, 04:14 PM
Sounds interesting but its a hell of an undertaking to cut a channel to the sea. This is the map of the closest bits of land to the sea with a 10mile grid on top. That would mean cutting maybe 50miles of canal. You would need one heck of a set of wizards, something extra planar or maybe divine to achieve it. I wonder if there might be a continuous cave system beneath the land...

RobA
06-04-2008, 05:34 PM
Check out http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/canhist.htm for some canal history.

The Egyptians built canals 100's of miles long.
The Romans, too built many canals.
The Chinese Grand Canal was over 800 miles with a summit of 138 ft, and was finished in 486BC.

and the medieval times saw a huge boom in canal construction.

Given that I hadn't realized that the roeborder ridge existed, this is the route I would suggest... (and not knowing where locations are on map 2) 30 miles overground, and another 25 miles of enlarged/dredged river. This also keeps me clear of the swamps in the south (though it kills the idea of making it navigable all the way into map 3).

4135

-Rob A>

alucard339
06-05-2008, 06:51 AM
Hey RobA,
for your little map, you should check with dark one, maybe he will give is lands to you since he doesn't seems to have the time for it.

As for me, I'm still trying to decide on the way I'm doing the ground effect and what I will put there.

I wish to put a kind off undead only land cause by some kind of acident.

cheers,

Alu.

waldronate
06-05-2008, 04:44 PM
Given that I hadn't realized that the roeborder ridge existed, this is the route I would suggest... (and not knowing where locations are on map 2) 30 miles overground, and another 25 miles of enlarged/dredged river. This also keeps me clear of the swamps in the south (though it kills the idea of making it navigable all the way into map 3).


There are lots of reasons to run the canal across the ridge. If you want a purely gravity-fed system then there will be locks or the upper lake will start to drain uncontrollably. One act of sabotage in the right place leads to uncontrolled flow, lowering of lake levels, and many unhappy denizens.

Maybe the locks and pumps on the canal are driven by "mysterious forces" that turn out to be mindless undead. That's an instant tension between those that must destroy all undead and those that want the canal system to keep going).

Perhaps the canal was completed relatively recently and is generally like the Panama canal (lake at the top fed by aquaducts that divert all the rivers on each side for 50 miles). With the other rivers diverted to run the canal, the local flora and fauna now have reason to want the canal destroyed. Lots of opportunity to get those activist nature-huggers doing the wrong thing.

How about a cut across the ridge for the canal that interrupts an annual migration? The migrating whatevers (trees work well for a fantasy setting, but various sorts of herd animals work equally well) no longer have a dry crossing point along the ridge and have to try to find alternative routes, usually along the locks. Consider what would happen if a million bison ran on their annual migration and began falling into the top cut for the canal. There's a fun one for the PCs to sort out.

Don't want a cut? How about a tunnel? Maybe one that accidentally hits an underground cave system and floods it, causing a migration of nasties out from below ground.

Lots of things can happen with one powerful wizard who's not overly farsighted or with lots of nonmagical folks who are motivated purely by profit.

Redrobes
06-05-2008, 05:17 PM
What about an underground cave system thats big but doesn't currently go all the way through from Roe Lake to the main as yet unnamed lake. You could sail small boats in so far and then have an underground set of locks with maybe a cavernous route from various places near to the Roeborder Ridge Fort down to it. That would make for an interesting reason to go subterranean. There would be no end of adventures protecting ships and dredging up loot from lost ones at the bottom of underground cave systems. A real magnet for intelligent monsters or pirates planning ways to scuttle boats.

jfrazierjr
06-05-2008, 06:25 PM
What about an underground cave system thats big but doesn't currently go all the way through from Roe Lake to the main as yet unnamed lake. You could sail small boats in so far and then have an underground set of locks with maybe a cavernous route from various places near to the Roeborder Ridge Fort down to it. That would make for an interesting reason to go subterranean. There would be no end of adventures protecting ships and dredging up loot from lost ones at the bottom of underground cave systems. A real magnet for intelligent monsters or pirates planning ways to scuttle boats.

Oooo ooo oooh! Underground canal's SOOO sounds like a great idea!!! It takes the whole transport system idea and makes it so much cooler. Perhaps multiple smaller above ground lakes surrounded by mountains that act as entrances to the underground parts. This would require guarding both above and below the surface, perhaps even some real cool merchant stops along the way(dwarven outpost with ore critical for nation X's security forces, etc) both above and below ground.

Joe

waldronate
06-05-2008, 06:25 PM
Having a subterranean drainage goes a long way to explaining why there is no surface connection. Hooray for karstic terrains! Or a small fleet of purple worms for the D&D types.

Venardhi
06-07-2008, 09:38 AM
I know what happened to me, but that is just "real life" demanding more attention than it is worth. I'll be back soon enough, just have a few more things to clear up. I also have a lot more written up for the Wiki, but I realized I'd rather wait til I have it all smoothed out rather than constantly editing between them after the fact.

You'll see me again, and more of Luwath and Orvaelos in the near future.

Steel General
06-22-2008, 04:35 PM
Was wondering if you folks have given any thought to the human pantheon(s)? There is nothing in the WIKI (that I could find), and I have seen almost no mention of deities, pantheons, etc.other than the Seldarine for the Elves in any of the posts.

I have a reasonably well-developed pantheon for my campaign world (see the link in my signature), that I would be more than willing to "donate" (for lack of a better term) to the project if you're interested in it. Obviously you'd be free to modify it to whatever suits your needs for the project.

Actually I'd be more than willing to "donate" anything currently on my site that isn't copyrighted for use in the project.

Redrobes
06-22-2008, 04:45 PM
I would think that would be most welcome if your able to put a CC license on it.

The reason why I haven't done much in the pantheon area is because I haven't thought much about the people and characters in the area I am doing. As time goes on people will be more and more important until we have some characters, heavy hitters and so on and then the religion and politics, tribes & influences will start to evolve and develop. I guess I am very map-centric and less character driven.

Steel General
06-22-2008, 05:44 PM
I would think that would be most welcome if your able to put a CC license on it.

Not quite sure what you mean by putting a "CC" license on it.

I wouldn't think there would be any licensing, copyright, trademark, etc. issues involved in using it.

Torq
06-22-2008, 06:37 PM
Great idea Steel General. I think the CWBP would really benefit from the kind donation of a few gods. We are currently a fairly godless group of mappers who, as Redrobes accurately put it, tend to be somewhat map-centric in our approach. Feel free to jump into the wiki and add your stuff. Bear in mind there are three supervising editors who may adapt or edit some of your contributions.

Torq

Midgardsormr
06-22-2008, 06:43 PM
CC stands for Creative Commons, and it is a license that allows a certain amount of creative freedom while protecting the original author's right to call the work their own.

Here's a link with info on the standard CC licenses: http://creativecommons.org/license/

The only nod I've made to religion so far is this benediction: "May the Blessed Lady keep her eyes upon you." It was included in a letter by a Groaman Pathmage. I don't have any idea who the Blessed Lady is at this point.

I have an idea stirring for a bit of religious information on the indigenous people of Groam and Tawaren, but it hasn't yet made itself clear to me.

Redrobes
06-22-2008, 06:58 PM
Not quite sure what you mean by putting a "CC" license on it.Sorry, should explain.

As I understand it, stuff in the CWBP is generally (should be ?) creative commons license. Thats a free to obtain license which is a halfway house between full proprietary "All rights reserved" to public domain "No rights reserved". Those ends of the spectrum mean that you cannot copy it without permission unless you tread carefully in the "fair use" clauses of copyright to do whatever you want because effectively nobody owns or cares about it anymore.

The creative commons license can be thought of as "Some rights reserved". Basically, the owner still owns the copyright and all rights but specifically states that people can do certain things with the stuff with some minor restrictions without needing to ask for the permission.

You can get a CC license with several options but the standard licenses cut the options down to a small set thats easily understood. The most common one is the CC attribution, non commercial, share alike type.

This means that your stuff can be copied and redistributed without permission from the owner if you attribute the work to the owner, you dont charge for it and that if you distribute it then it has to be distributed with the same CC attribution, non commercial, share alike license again so that you cant modify how its shared from the way the owner wanted it shared.

Ok, so if you release your work with that license then nobody has to ask you to use it as long as they use it in that way. And by that same token nobody can heavy handed about somebody using their creative commons licensed material if used correctly so there is protection for the people using it too.

It would be better to release stuff public domain but there has been a tendency in recent years for public domain stuff to become appropriated somehow by institutions. By using CC nobody can magically assimilate your work and redistribute it a way that you don't approve of.

The main site for creative commons is www.creativecommons.org which has everything needed to know about it.

Steel General
06-22-2008, 10:38 PM
OK, well if you folks feel that is needed I'll look into it.


Feel free to jump into the wiki and add your stuff.

I created an account in the WIKI earlier so I'm good to go in respect to that.


Bear in mind there are three supervising editors who may adapt or edit some of your contributions.

I have no problems with them adapting any or all of the text, if I did I would never have made the offer. I'll need to edit some parts of it out anyway as it is specific to my world, and I don't feel that it would fit. Probably what we'll end up with is just a basic listing of the pantheon with some genral information on each deity.


The only nod I've made to religion so far is this benediction: "May the Blessed Lady keep her eyes upon you." It was included in a letter by a Groaman Pathmage. I don't have any idea who the Blessed Lady is at this point.

Just off the top of my head, I think this could be adapted to either one of two existing godesses in my pantheon.

SeerBlue
06-22-2008, 10:50 PM
Hey all, the FHCO's want to make pictures of their characters to go along with the tales we have written for Snapgallows, so what I have been searching for, without success, is a nice stock photo site that is free that has "old tyme" pictures of people that are also free for use, with modification in Photoshop via filters, so they can have at the images and create something that fits.
The nine year old is quite adept at PS, (Naruto is his forte, but Naruto isn't what he wants), so we are looking towards B and W portraits with character....
Kind of vague, I know, just though I would ask here in the CWBP thread as it is somewhat on the trail to Snapgallows....
SeerBlue

Redrobes
06-23-2008, 09:28 AM
Hey all, the FHCO's want to make pictures of their characters to go along with the tales we have written for Snapgallows, so what I have been searching for, without success, is a nice stock photo site that is free that has "old tyme" pictures of people that are also free for use, with modification in Photoshop via filters, so they can have at the images and create something that fits.
The nine year old is quite adept at PS, (Naruto is his forte, but Naruto isn't what he wants), so we are looking towards B and W portraits with character....
Kind of vague, I know, just though I would ask here in the CWBP thread as it is somewhat on the trail to Snapgallows....
SeerBlueHeh - was looking for the same yesterday.

The national portrait gallery has a web site with old and thus out of copyright images on it. Theres the "liams old books" which I like to get a search of 'people' with 400 odd pics but not necessarily portraits tho. In the end I searched for too long and got my paints out instead. Not as nice but got me something quicker.

Steel General
06-23-2008, 12:00 PM
OK all I have posted the beginnings of the Pantheon in the WIKI. Obviously it still needs the final "green light" from the Editors. I tried to take out any obvious reference to my campaign setting, but I have may missed a few.

The info can be found under WORLD OVERVIEW => PANTHEON. Take a look and let me know what you think.

SeerBlue
06-23-2008, 12:33 PM
I found a good resource, with a lot of old public domain images, hosted by the US government no less, it is the Library of Congress Digital Collection (http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/catalog.html), it even had the ones I was thinking of, the old dust bowl portraits, black and white, folks looking worn and desperate. Perfect Snapgallows residents.
I will have to check out the national portrait gallery as well.
I have helped the FHCO's do up three or so for characters, just to show them filters, and now am trying to figure out PS actions so they can run a couple different ones thru themselves and choose. I will post one to the snap gallows thread as an example of what they are doing, I just have to nab it from Horsehair's PDF. We've even put in a bit of a description and story for background, but we have to work on that as it is not as polished as the Fantaseum Alliance ezine, which they like.
SeerBlue

NeonKnight
06-23-2008, 10:57 PM
OK all I have posted the beginnings of the Pantheon in the WIKI. Obviously it still needs the final "green light" from the Editors. I tried to take out any obvious reference to my campaign setting, but I have may missed a few.

The info can be found under WORLD OVERVIEW => PANTHEON. Take a look and let me know what you think.

Pretty good. If we are going to go by a newer 4e interpretation, the alignments have changed to:

Chaotic Evil
Evil
Unaligned
Good
Lawful Good

These new alignments have structured things such that there is evil which is defined as being Evil, but then of that evil, there is the evil variety that seeks nothing but Wanton Destruction of everything (the Chaotic Evil). On the other end of the scale there is Good, and then there is Lawful Good that seeks to uphold the laws of the land and portect all.

Steel General
06-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Pretty good. If we are going to go by a newer 4e interpretation, the alignments have changed to:

Chaotic Evil
Evil
Unaligned
Good
Lawful Good

These new alignments have structured things such that there is evil which is defined as being Evil, but then of that evil, there is the evil variety that seeks nothing but Wanton Destruction of everything (the Chaotic Evil). On the other end of the scale there is Good, and then there is Lawful Good that seeks to uphold the laws of the land and portect all.

Thanks...

Well, if we need to change them that would be easy enough. Just let me know if we're going to lean in the 4E direction or not.

Personally I prefer the slightly more diverse, and at times highly interpretational alignments from 3E. But whatever the majority feels is appropriate is OK by me.

NeonKnight
06-25-2008, 03:01 AM
No prob. One of the things I like about 4e is the looser Alignment of past editions. Now, most creatures are simply Unaligned except for the more truly evil (Demons, Devils, etc) or the truly Good.

industrygothica
06-25-2008, 04:13 PM
This would be the beginning of the conversation that I knew was coming eventually...

In an effort to keep this project as system agnostic as possible (I believe that's what we've all agreed upon, yes?) I think that a basic good/neutral/evil is all that's relevant; anything along a lawful/chaos axis can probably be summed up in the description and left up to the imagination. I just can't help but thing that, for our purposes, "this god is bad," and "this god is really bad" will be sufficient, and less restrictive.

So now you have my two cents. Keep the change. ;)


-IG

Torq
06-25-2008, 04:33 PM
Yes, bear in mind that the predominant view in respect of game systems was that the CWBP world should be system agnostic. We may have to lose the D&D alignments, but then again they are also descriptive.

Torq

Steel General
06-25-2008, 05:40 PM
I have no trouble dropping the alignments completely. You can pretty much tell the basic Good/Nuetral/Evil stance of the deity by their portfolios and the minimal background information available.

Iridala: Beauty, Birth, Family, Fertility, Healing, Home, Love --> Good

Nymdyl: Divination, Dreams, Fate, Illusion, Sleep, Time --> Nuetral

Vhikuun: Cruelty, Domination, Fear, Greed, Political Corruption, Strife, Tyranny --> Evil

So if we are trying to be system "agnostic", just let me know how you want it represented (if at all) and we'll change it. :)