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Arcana
06-07-2008, 11:15 AM
Hi all.

With 4E out, and me being anal retentive about worldbuilding...I wanted to rekindle my Arsala efforts...Arsala is a smaller planet with 1 sun and 8 moons...

I plan on using FT to create a base map to work from, and then begging Redrobes to help me or let me use his software to do erosion and world color and whatnot like he did for the CWBP.

But I guess I should start here with FT...

Highest Peak: 19340 ft
Lowest Depth: -12309 ft
Circumference: 15433 miles
Rough: .87
Percent Sea: 60
Land Size: 2.31
Cont Shelves: -750.99
Axis Tilt: 15 deg
Greenhouse: 1.11
Method: Wilbur Ridged Multifractal

How did NeonKnight calculate averages and all that?

Also I was curious about Deserts? Does FT not ever generate any deserts?

Does this seem realistic enough or should I change something? or same settings and try a different seed? I kinda like the shape of this one...but I'm not married to it.

RobA
06-07-2008, 11:22 AM
I am just growing to hate FT's "inland seas" :P

They just don't work, mentally, for me! I would expect anything not connected to the ocean to be "flood filled" to a higher elevation than sea level...The area's on the left continent would either be much higher (thus larger), or be much shallower (below sea level) if they evaporated faster than filling.

Any suggestion on how to manage this with FT, or third party tools?

-Rob A>

Arcana
06-07-2008, 11:33 AM
I agree...I was going to fake it with rivers on the backend...but I don't know...

I'm very curious about RedRobes tools, and would love to give them a shot...

waldronate
06-07-2008, 05:14 PM
http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/CGTutorial/index.html shows how to go about using the tools in FT to eliminate the more annoying areas. There are many other tools that aren't explored in that tutorial such as the lower water level painting tool (paint away those lakes) and the Actions>>Expand Land in Offset tool that expands land along the coasts, which tends to fill in those smaller sea-level areas.

On the desert front, FT was a little too optimistic in its placement of rainfall, making for worlds that are very wet. Combined with the static climate model in FT (no air current or water current simulation to move temperature and rainfall around), you're unlikely to get deserts unless you lower the rainfall level your self with the paint tool or lower worldwide rainfall.

The values shown for rainfall and temperature are already yearly averages.

Arcana
06-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Thanks Joe!!!

Thats a great tut!

While editing, I ended up with a section that had like a big vertical gash in it, like a glitch...is there a way to prevent that?

Arcana
06-08-2008, 03:09 PM
Here's another gash...Its messing up my mojo.

Is it the edge of the world??? Since I rotated it a little to center the land masses in equirectangular projection?

waldronate
06-08-2008, 03:17 PM
Try to avoid the +180/-180 boundary on the world; there may be unresolved editing issues there for one pixel of width. There is also a known problem with certain operation (divide and exponent, if I recall) that can generate infinite values and the software doesn't clip those out so they propagate forever unless you select the area and set the value.

If your area of primary interest is across the +180/-180 boundary and that's the part that is causing you problems, you can rotate the fractal part of the world relative to the underlying edit grid using North Pole Position.Longitude on the Secondary editing page on the World Settings property sheet.

The first picture shown below gives a world with a bad split right across the only land mass. The second picture shows the same world with the fractal part rotated 180 degrees so that the land mass is centered on 0 longitude rather than 180 longitude. Note that doing this doesn't move your editing.

Arcana
06-09-2008, 12:41 AM
Excellent...I managed to work around it...luckily for me I was able to 1 pixel edit everything near it and fixed all the big gaps...Though I hope when I get to the erosion and smoothing and rivers and whatnot, that edge won't cause me any grief...I've done WAY too much editing to change the north pole position now...unless you have any other ideas?

I decided to go with a different world. Here's a picture so far with all the editing I've done...I'm currently going around all the coastlines and getting rid of all the little coastal seas. Still more work to do...that tutorial is VERY helpful though.

Arcana
06-09-2008, 02:05 AM
Got to the rivers part, and the edge problem seems to have reared its ugly head...bleh...any ideas now? left side of the two weird river lines is where the edge is...

Whats weird is if I zoom in so that both sides of the two weird lines aren't visible, the problem goes away...I'm guessing its a river vector problem?

Edit: Rerunning rivers with very fine resolution fixed the problem...nevermind...yay! Moving on.

waldronate
06-09-2008, 02:52 AM
The problem with horzontal lines is a problem when subdividing the line segments to deal with the potentially curved projection. Using a projection with curved parallels should hide the problem that comes up sometimes as the horizontal lines as does recomputing the rivers at a slightly different resolution.

I dislike the default Equirectangular projection. I recommend the Hammer projection as a nice compromise projection. Also consider the Wagner VII projection or Orthographic (which looks like a globe viewed from infinity). Every projection has a purpose, you need to find one you like that meets your needs and use it.

Arcana
06-09-2008, 08:19 AM
Yeah I figured out the situational stuff with the river error...no big deal...Only thing I'd use equirectangular for woul dbe for a google maps api overlay...

Or is Google maps a different projection than equirectangular? Since its square...maybe google maps is mercator?

waldronate
06-09-2008, 09:59 AM
I have been looking at the Google Maps things lately and they appear to be using Mercator as the default projection, which is quite unfortunate as the Mercator projection is a navigation projection and not well suited for general use. (As an aside, Mercator-projection maps are popular only because there was a large surplus of them at the end of WWII and they made their way into schools because they were very cheap to obtain).

At first glance it appears that there might be a way to use different projections, but I need to look at the whole area in more detail in my copious free time.

SeerBlue
06-09-2008, 11:07 AM
The first post in this thread (http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/browse_thread/thread/e027619b5f742587/88e8a9a6dfd74ad0?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=projections#88e8a9a6dfd74ad0)
has a link to a few custom projections in google maps using custom imagery. The code is linked of the page, and the html/jscript can be viewed via "view source".
The google map google group is great for information, just follow the beginners guidelines and ask away, all in all they are very helpful.
Concerning applying custom projections you have to be pretty clear you mean custom projections for custom imagery, or you will get alot of replies that it can't be done, as most will think you mean using jscript to reproject Googles own imagery.
That is if YOU even need to ask, being a dev your self,,,,,me, I ask a lot.

this link (http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/search?hl=en&group=Google-Maps-API&q=projections&qt_g=Search+this+group) brings up the gmap google groups entries for projections.
SeerBlue

edit; just found these, so I have not used them yet, tooooo much going on.
free tools for making google maps
this one cuts imagery (http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/richard/GoogleMapImageCutter/gmimgcut-DownloadChoices.asp)
and this (http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/software/gmapcreator.asp) one makes google maps. this one also requires registration, free, but only takes a minute. available for windows,mac, linux.

Arcana
06-09-2008, 11:23 AM
Yeah, SeerBlue, I started a project a while back that was going to be a "service" here on the guild where people could upload their maps, and the server side script would slice it and dice it into tiles, and serve the tiles through a google maps api...I've experimented quite a bit with the api, but never got around to doing the automation portion. I've not messed with projections though. I'll take a look.

Joe, if you could write a function for FT that would export 256x256 tiles at different zoom levels...you'd make a LOT of nerds like me VERY VERY happy campers.

Basically...mercator projection rendered at 256x256 would be the outer zoom level...and you'd just keep doubling it 512x512 (2x2), 1024x1024 (4x4), etc...etc...I would think it would be somewhat possible to do something like that right?

waldronate
06-09-2008, 01:22 PM
There are a lot of things on the work list for FT3 and one developer with not much time.

NeonKnight
06-09-2008, 01:42 PM
The 'Horizontal' river problem I can fix in the Eqirectangular projection by looking to the river's that spawn the problem, do a little smoothing/raising/lowering and the rerun the find rivers. Seems to work. You are lucky, you only have two, I sometimes have twenty! :o

NeonKnight
06-09-2008, 01:44 PM
Hi all.

With 4E out, and me being anal retentive about worldbuilding...I wanted to rekindle my Arsala efforts...Arsala is a smaller planet with 1 sun and 8 moons...

I plan on using FT to create a base map to work from, and then begging Redrobes to help me or let me use his software to do erosion and world color and whatnot like he did for the CWBP.

But I guess I should start here with FT...

Highest Peak: 19340 ft
Lowest Depth: -12309 ft
Circumference: 15433 miles
Rough: .87
Percent Sea: 60
Land Size: 2.31
Cont Shelves: -750.99
Axis Tilt: 15 deg
Greenhouse: 1.11
Method: Wilbur Ridged Multifractal

How did NeonKnight calculate averages and all that?



I assume you mean the Temperature and rain falls?

I guessed (because it didn't say anywhere in the documentation) that the Rainfall and Temperature was a yearly average because it just didn;t make sense any other way. I will admit it would be nice to know what the Means would be for Summer and Winter.

RobA
06-09-2008, 04:09 PM
There are a lot of things on the work list for FT3 and one developer with not much time.

<cough>open source<cough, cough>

Seriously, though. I have to commend your efforts on and commitment to FT (and Wilbur, as well). They are fabulous resources for the genworld/conworld creator.

-Rob A>

waldronate
06-09-2008, 04:56 PM
My FT royalties get me a new computer every couple of years, which is why I did the project in the first place.

Arcana
06-09-2008, 11:15 PM
Just out of curiosity what other projects do you work on? Anything that would interest us?

waldronate
06-09-2008, 11:22 PM
Just out of curiosity what other projects do you work on? Anything that would interest us?


Most likely not. My most time consuming project is keeping the wife happy followed by the day job, followed by housework, with FT and Wilbur pretty near the bottom of the list. The biggest current personal software projects are to make the backends of both FT and Wilbur more consistent with each other and to get FT3 out the door for Christmas.