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- Max -
05-04-2013, 07:56 PM
After doing the map of the Ring of Kryll and discussing about heraldic, I decided to give it another shot on a new map. This time, my goal is to show how heraldic evolves with things that affect the political life ( epidemics, wars, alliances...) in the fantasy Kingdoms of Kesh over years. So the map will show 3 ages of Kesh. Also this time I may try to label in english (though I'm not sure yet. If ever I'll do, I would probably need some help with it :D ).
Map's size is 39"x51" and uploaded one is 27"x36". Since I currently have several commissions and projects running, updates may be slow depending how fast I work on the other maps. Anyway, to start the thread I mostly worked on cartouches and borders frames and the land mass.

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Schwarzkreuz
05-04-2013, 08:57 PM
Stunning new projects lately. This will Be interesting

aquarits
05-04-2013, 10:34 PM
YES! I convinced him!!!

EDIT: DAMN amazing borders ¬¬ the red details in the corners

- Max -
05-04-2013, 10:38 PM
Take a breath my friend, it's not done yet and I didn't probably chose the easiest map to label it in english :D. Oh well, let see how it will go.
EDIT: Thanks ;)

Schwarzkreuz
05-05-2013, 03:23 AM
I think its interesting to see, where we influence each other lately

vorropohaiah
05-05-2013, 04:12 AM
this looks nice. i like the borders (made them yourself or stock vectors?)

Eilathen
05-05-2013, 05:26 AM
Sounds interesting. And always good to see another Max-project :D

- Max -
05-05-2013, 07:45 AM
@SK : yes, indeed sharing and talking about experiments and WIP sure does that :)
@Vorro : Thanks :) Mostly vectors I worked a bit on to gives it the look I wanted
@Eilathen : Thanks!

Schwarzkreuz
05-05-2013, 04:02 PM
Well thats always a tough decission, to only rely on the own drawing skills, add free materials or rely entirely on Others elements. Some people liek Diamond have done a great Body of Work with brushes and Elements provided by others. It just catched my mind that Vorro often asked about the selfmade part of elements, which I am sure relate to his perfectionism on his own maps. I feel a bit ambivalent about using frames and other elements from real old maps, or to try to redo them in my own way.

- Max -
05-05-2013, 06:07 PM
I don't mind using free stuff that is not my own drawings since it's not overseen on other maps and if the map is still consistent with them. By the way I am not an illustrator so I can't draw what I want. As a graphic designer, finding useful resources and use them (which most of the time means re-work and adapt them) in a proper way is part of my job and I learned that sometimes it isn't that easy.

Schwarzkreuz
05-05-2013, 06:38 PM
Before i became an Illustrator and in the beginning of my Studies, i also heavily mined sources of free material like DA and others. There are very thin lines between copy, appropriation and adaption. What is going further as an illustrator may be reinterpretation and reinvention. In this last ones completely can make them your own. To which degree we choose our lines of work to settle is open.

Nö critic meant, i love your borders, it was more directed in Vorro's direction.

- Max -
05-05-2013, 08:44 PM
No worry I didn't take that as a critic, just wanted to set my opinion on this subject which is indeed interesting to debate :) And I guess Vorro was just asking out of curiosity ;)

Schwarzkreuz
05-05-2013, 08:53 PM
Cant wait to See your heraldry Layouts. Hope you can progress on this one

vorropohaiah
05-06-2013, 12:44 AM
Mostly its just curiosity. A lot of times i find the graininess of stock antique elements really sticks out against the harsh perfect lines created digitally (which is why i try to grunge them up where i can) though i also think SK has a point, in that i value self-made elements over stock ones, but (especially when working on commissions to a deadline) thats not always feasable.

I Think the ones youre using here have a good balance of looking classical though without looking too random, in that they look as though they could have been made on a computer.

Diamond
05-06-2013, 02:51 PM
Nice work as usual. This one, I have a feeling, will garner a Featured Map scroll...

I kind of come down in the middle of the hand-drawn vs. free web art debate. On one hand, drawing your own stuff definitely makes everything hang together, but on the other hand, half the reason I do digital maps in the first place is to relax, and sometimes (a lot of times) I just want to take the easy way. I always vow to do my own elements and then get lazy...

Schwarzkreuz
05-06-2013, 03:42 PM
Despite that fact, you spend a lot of time doing realy amazing maps, and i admire your sense of composition. To relax and have fun are important.
Also I agree. This could be a feature candidate

vorropohaiah
05-07-2013, 12:02 AM
Relaxing is one of the last things on my mind while I'm working on a map, what with my perpetual struggle for the perfect font, kerning, size etc, as well as my constant dissatisfaction with much of what I do. After finishing a map (or anything creative) I usually go through a few stages - 1 I. Can't get enough of it, then... 2 I start finding faults wherever I look... So I think my preference for making everything myself is a way of trying to better myself.

Schwarzkreuz
05-07-2013, 03:51 AM
I tend to the two extreme ends of views too, but try to find the balance between having joy of beeing creative and Be concentrated and aim for personal progress in style and skill

- Max -
05-07-2013, 05:33 AM
Nice work as usual. This one, I have a feeling, will garner a Featured Map scroll...

Also I agree. This could be a feature candidate

8) Relax guys, the map isn't even started yet :D But thanks to keep my motivation up!

Back to the discussion, you guys noticed that (at leat I hope) I'm always trying to pay attention to details on my maps. So yea except the "*** I can't draw myself this epic thing I planned to put on the map" - where having no tablet don't really help by the way, mixing hand-drawn stuff along vectors or free material coms to a natural way of doing for me since it keeps a detailed, consistent and original style. As an highlight of this , and without trying to be pretentious, I think using some stuff mountains from Blaue ( still with some work on it) on Lorn's map along with hand-drawn icons/locations/stuff made the thing. I don't think that people looked at it just thinking "this map is crap, it's just some Blaeu's mountains collage/adaptation/copy" or whatever.

*Blaeu's mountains brushes....Hmm Might not be a bad idea to get them back out of dust and use them on this map*

Lezales
05-07-2013, 02:17 PM
I can give you help to translate the labels in english. I speak both french and english !

- Max -
05-07-2013, 02:47 PM
Thank you Lezales I'll keep it in mind! :)

aquarits
05-08-2013, 08:48 PM
8) *Blaeu's mountains brushes....Hmm Might not be a bad idea to get them back out of dust and use them on this map*

where are thos mountains, are the same used in Selen?

- Max -
05-09-2013, 03:51 AM
Nope, those are the ones used on the Old Empire of Lorn's map ;)

- Max -
05-10-2013, 01:40 PM
Updated.

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Carbus
05-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Fantastic mountains! Can't wait to see more of it!

Schwarzkreuz
05-10-2013, 03:26 PM
You should take another piece of texture for each of the 3 maps, it strikes me imedatly when I see, that they all share same texture

- Max -
05-10-2013, 03:50 PM
Indeed. I just copy paste the top map to fill the whole thing but textures will be different onthe three ones to make the whole thing consistent

vorropohaiah
05-10-2013, 04:47 PM
looking good. which blau maps are the mountains taken from?

- Max -
05-10-2013, 05:20 PM
Thanks. They're from his atlas of Scotland.

- Max -
05-10-2013, 09:32 PM
Some progress : added missing scale border, tested out labels on one kingdom and added key. If you guys notice some english mistakes or unproper words, please just let me know :)

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foremost
05-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Wow, that looks incredible. The mountains are absolutely stunning. However, I noticed that the bridges were off-center with the road. Tiny point, but I'm sure it'd be easy to properly center them. Nice border!

vorropohaiah
05-11-2013, 04:51 AM
seeing these mountains again has got me working on some new mountain brushes,though mine are sadly put to shame by the mighty bleau. very nice colours as always, as well as the simple clear labels. looking forward to seeing the text in the sidebars

- Max -
05-11-2013, 06:52 AM
Thank you guys!


However, I noticed that the bridges were off-center with the road. Tiny point, but I'm sure it'd be easy to properly center them.

Tiny point that sure need to be worked! :)


looking forward to seeing the text in the sidebars

That's going to be kind of a hard part...I'm still not 100% sure how I will do that. I was thinking of course of the heraldic description in the left bar and a description of the events that changes the political (and so heraldry, along othe things like borders,roads and such) stuff on the right bar.

vorropohaiah
05-11-2013, 07:06 AM
my problem when i do this type of map is that i don't plan enough for the text and end up having to find out something to put there, where in 'real-life' someone creating this type of map would create it knowing exactly what's going in those areas.

i think if you put the things you mentioned on one side and then write a history on the other side you should be able to fill up both areas withenough mumbo-jumbo to make them look convincing.

aquarits
05-11-2013, 07:27 AM
going nice. Just think some rivers are starting weird near the mountains if you not saw :D

- Max -
05-11-2013, 07:41 AM
my problem when i do this type of map is that i don't plan enough for the text and end up having to find out something to put there, where in 'real-life' someone creating this type of map would create it knowing exactly what's going in those areas.

So true :) Well, I guess i have enough space to fill it. Those bars might be less or more crowded depending on ideas and inspiration :D


going nice. Just think some rivers are starting weird near the mountains if you not saw :D

Thank you Aquarits. Can you point them out?

aquarits
05-11-2013, 08:02 AM
Ofc bro.
Guess for some just need a thin start.

- Max -
05-11-2013, 08:09 AM
Yup, Thanks for the input! :)

Schwarzkreuz
05-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Its slowly taking some very nice form here. I think it will turn out great with the labels done and the heraldy placed.

Eilathen
05-12-2013, 07:19 AM
Very nice! I think the mountains look good. And you got better with your rivers, Max ;)
What i am not a big fan of is this coast-sea-lines (is it called woodcut?) that depict the sea.
Fun Fact: when i looked at the picture in your OP all those days ago, i was under the impression that the dark parts are the sea and the lighter parts the land :D

If i can, i'll rep you.

Schwarzkreuz
05-12-2013, 07:23 AM
I would prefer fading coastal lines, but well its just my Personal taste

- Max -
05-12-2013, 10:34 AM
Thanks Eilathen and SK. I thought that woodcut-style coastal lines would fit this map right :/ SK what you mean "faded lines"?

Schwarzkreuz
05-12-2013, 10:47 AM
Outlines of the coast repeating outside the coast and fading into the water.

- Max -
05-12-2013, 12:26 PM
y u no like my woodcut coastal lines? :’( ... :-D Any other opinions on that, guys?

Lingon
05-13-2013, 12:57 PM
I like the coastlines! I'm feeling inspired to try that style myself.

- Max -
05-13-2013, 07:21 PM
More progress on the labels.
@ Lingon, thanks, I'll wait til more opinions about those coastlines to see if i'll keep them :)

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Diamond
05-13-2013, 07:48 PM
I like the coastlines too. I think there's a fine line to walk when you're doing horizontal lines like those; just a little too thick and they look bad, too blotchy and ugly, but too thin and they look too computer-generated. I think you found the right balance.

Schwarzkreuz
05-13-2013, 08:15 PM
Verry Impressive, cant wait to see the other two iterations of the map to compare the changes.

rdanhenry
05-13-2013, 08:57 PM
I think the coastlines look good. A nice look that blends with the rest of the map.

What puzzles me is the capitalization conventions in names. At first, I thought you were doing initial word only capitalized, except words that are names (proper nouns) in their own right. This fit for things like "Castle of tears", "White tower", "Koros river", "Fortress of Dorsok", "Citadel of Brecz", etc., but then I spotted "Komor Lake", "Blue Mounts", "Black Castle", etc. While you can make up your own conventions, there's no apparent convention being following, and while it is possible for a cartographer to capitalize at random, I find the haphazard treatment distracting.

aquarits
05-13-2013, 09:36 PM
watching ths maps i almost hate you lol.

just a observation, is right put the kingdom borders in middle of the mountains? I believe that they use mountains as reference for the borders, then um kingdom own the land and the rest with the mountains took the rest for. They cant measure the borders exactly in the mountains. Specific saying about the borders in the lower right side and other in Kolnev.

Schwarzkreuz
05-14-2013, 02:25 AM
Mountains itself were often the bounderies, and they are ressources so Why Not using them on oneside of a kingdom?

- Max -
05-14-2013, 03:00 AM
@rdanhenri: well spotted you're right about it. This need to be fixed to be more consistent.
@aquarits: not sure what you're talking about is a real problem?
@ I did it between Kolnev and Krosnal but yea I'l maybe change the boundaries of the southern kingdoms to match the idea.

MarcoOostendorp
05-14-2013, 03:09 PM
next to mountains are rivers also very nice natural borders

- Max -
05-14-2013, 03:20 PM
Updated with first map finished labels. I fixed the capitalization thing noticed by rdanhenry (except if you guys spot some left mistakes here and there). Time to work on heraldry...

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Schwarzkreuz
05-16-2013, 01:24 PM
I am always stunned how fast you work

Eilathen
05-16-2013, 01:31 PM
I think those forests should be much more dense.
Now those trees just look lonely :D Otherwise, nice map!

Chashio
05-16-2013, 02:00 PM
What happened to the E and N on the compass? And the font has weird W's - why did you choose a font with weird W's? Why do some rivers have 'river' labels and others don't? Why 'Snakes mounts' instead of 'Snake mounts'? The top and bottom space around the map is thicker than the sides. I'm just messing with you. It's a thoroughly awesome map.

Your speed is giving me a headache.

- Max -
05-16-2013, 02:11 PM
@Eilathen : the map main focus isn't geographic terrains, that's why forests doesn't need to be that dense. Since you saw those are forests, the map fits his goal ;)
@ Chasio : Thanks for the critics, I'm open to them :) Seems that some greedy one just stole those N and E. No worry I'll chase him and get them back to the right place ;) I chose this font because it's solid and legible with a nice aged outline. the "weird" W is just another part of this aged look to me so that's fine for what I want to render.
And don't worry about the space around the map, I'll add some extra cartouches titles on the top and resize the whole thing after that ;)
@ SK : work will slow down a bit with the heraldry though :D and with the way to make all that changes on the furthers map! I'm about to think I just really started the map right now...

Eilathen
05-17-2013, 12:37 PM
@Eilathen : the map main focus isn't geographic terrains, that's why forests doesn't need to be that dense. Since you saw those are forests, the map fits his goal ;)


Well, i believe you, Max. I just post my preferences...no matter what the map is supposed to be for or focus on ;)

On a more serious note: I hope that is ok? I always intend to criticize constructively...but there will always be my taste as the basis of this feedback (well duh, right?! :D ). And i still think, no matter the intent of this map, it would look better with "real forests" not those hapazardly strewn around trees.

- Max -
05-17-2013, 12:44 PM
That's fine Eilathen, I like having comments with opinions, critics, personnal tastes, inouts, advices (and I try to do the same). Whatever I do with them (sometimes I feel it's some good ones, sometimes I'm not agree and stick with what I have) it keeps my motivation up on the map. And you're always one of those who try to comment constructively on maps Eilathen. Thanks for that :)

- Max -
05-18-2013, 07:33 AM
Updated with first map's heraldry.

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vorropohaiah
05-18-2013, 07:42 AM
Very nice colours on those shields.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 09:00 AM
Thanks :) So next step is to fill the right cartouche with a timeline of the events of the first age that will modify political structures of the kingdoms. The second map will show those changes and describes the events of the second age aswell.

Chashio
05-18-2013, 12:23 PM
Nice shields! They do seem a bit small for the space to my eye. Or maybe because there's so much texture on the background that is distracting from them a bit.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 12:34 PM
Thank you :) Yes they're a bit small but since ther's gonna be shields in th whole left cartouches and on the thress maps I was scared that bigger ones overcrowd the map :/

Chashio
05-18-2013, 12:40 PM
Have you tried them at a larger size? I'd be interested to see it.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 12:46 PM
I'll show an update with bigger ones on the map. If that looks better I'll change that.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 01:25 PM
Alright, here we go with larger shields (only on the map, I'll update the cartouche if this version is better) Your thoughts?

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Viking
05-18-2013, 01:40 PM
This is looking amazing Max! :)

Chashio
05-18-2013, 01:44 PM
Oh blast. A miss-communication on my part. :/ I was just referring to the cartouche bit (the empty space and texture in the cartouche overpowering the shields), not the map itself. I loved the texture and shields on the map the way you had it. Sorry. My bad.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 02:16 PM
:D haha no problem, not that much work to go a step back ;) ok that's true, cartouche looks a bit empty, I'll put the larger ones there.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 02:17 PM
And Thanks Viking :)

- Max -
05-18-2013, 05:53 PM
New update : increased the size of the left cartouche shields, added the timeline with the depiction of the main events in the right cartouche and added a very few icons on the map related to those events. I know there's probably a lot of languages mistakes left on that depiction so if ever anyone wants to help fixing them that would be great :)

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Diamond
05-18-2013, 06:14 PM
I want to kidnap you, SK, and vorro, stick you into a Dr Frankenstein blender-machine, and create UberCartographer. Every time I see an update from any of you, I'm like "Squeeeeeeeeeee!", but THIS one is really awesome. Now I'm gonna have to get all fanboy and try my own version of this type of look...

- Max -
05-18-2013, 06:57 PM
Hahaha I wonder what this Ubercartographer would do as maps :?: :D Thanks much Diamond!

Chashio
05-18-2013, 07:10 PM
Just reading through the last two paragraphs, I'd change them as follows:

Foundation of the Baronny of Frayker:
The religious wars that divide supporters of the Cult of Katlin and of the Cult of Fray rage in northern areas of the Kingdom of Skalig. To end a situation that may permanently weaken the kingdom, the King assigns a portion of lands of the baronnies of Segvor and Jornog to the Fray's faithful, who found the Baronny of Frayker.

Foundation of the Slaczek of Kysk:
...... Lord Marek of Krosny offers him his daughter's hand and gives him some lands in the north of the Slaczek. The King allows Horald to set a new Slaczek in these lands.

I haven't read through the rest, but mainly just watch your tenses... as you tend to slip between present and past, and I'm guessing you want it all in present.
It is a fabulous map! If I drool on it will you let me keep it? Just kidding.

- Max -
05-18-2013, 07:17 PM
Thanks much Chasio! I'll made the changes, yes I want it in present :) Eh well maybe some dried drool stains would give it some more aged touch? :D

jturner
05-19-2013, 04:30 AM
Ohhh my goodness, this is an absolute stunner! And very clever, too. With a lot of maps, you spend a few minutes admiring it and then you think ‘oh, that was nice’. But other maps pull you in by telling a story. That’s what you’ve done here. When I read the sidebar, I just wanted to spend more time looking at it and cross-referencing the timeline with the places on the map. It’s the map that keeps on giving!

And your English is fantastic. Unfortunately, inviting someone like me to give grammar correction is like waving a red rag at a (cuddly) bull, so here goes (WARNING: The following contains boring grammar explanations).

The first sentence under ‘War of the Wolves’ is a bit wild. It starts with a participle clause (Taking advantage…), but there’s no subject (I don’t think you mean the troops or the Kingdom of Mehren). Basically, with participle clauses the subject should come directly after the comma. For example…

CORRECT “Being an English language teacher, Jim knows a lot about grammar”. Jim is an English language teacher, so he goes after the comma.

INCORRECT “Being an English language teacher, it’s easy to spot other people’s grammar mistakes (but never his own!)”. Although you can probably understand it, this sentence is not seen as correct because ‘it’ is not an English language teacher!

There’s a bit more explanation here (http://www.grammaring.com/participle-clauses-0) if you’re really interested.

Back to the point. I think I can see what you want to say. Maybe: “Taking advantage of the weakening of the Kingdom of Mehren, Drask [pause], with his troops led by Haredeth Dokan and Walbor Wolf [pause], invades Conlanshire and Elhenshire in order to get access to the sea and his eternal rival.” Here, Drask becomes the subject, but then you end with ‘get access to his eternal rival’, which is a bit weird. Achhhh…

jturner
05-19-2013, 04:33 AM
One other small thing. If you look closely at a map made by a native English speaker (for example here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/mapping-challenge-archive/23104-april-may-lite-entry-troglodytes-lair-2.html#post215517) and here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/finished-maps/17948-skullport-isometric-map.html)), 95% of the time the words in the map labels are either upper case (UPPER CASE) or title case (Title Case). Title case means that you capitalise the first letter of every word, except for mid-position prepositions (of, under, on), conjunctions (and, but, or), and articles (the, a, an). So, a native speaker tends to write ‘Castle of Silence’ (not ‘Castle of silence’ and not ‘Castle Of Silence’) and ‘The High Keep’ (not ‘the High Keep’ and not ‘The high keep’). ‘Tower of Sliced Chicken Breast on a Bed of Broccoli with Ginger and Lemon’ (not ‘Tower of sliced chicken’…ok, you get the idea). Again, here (http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/capital_letters_title_case.htm)’s another summary.

This might be important if, for example, you wanted your maps published by a professional English-language publisher. Otherwise, they’ll be stunning whatever you do!

Anyway, sorry for the lengthy explanations. Being a teacher, it was hard to resist. (...I couldn't resist!?)

Eilathen
05-19-2013, 06:39 AM
I want to kidnap you, SK, and vorro, stick you into a Dr Frankenstein blender-machine, and create UberCartographer.

Don't be modest, Diamond, you have to go into that blender as well!

On topic: i really like the history-side-bar, very cool idea! This screams "rpg map" to me.

vorropohaiah
05-19-2013, 06:43 AM
i do like the timeline - it's very similar to something i was thinking of doing. good call increasing the shields, also

- Max -
05-19-2013, 07:25 AM
Thank you guys,
@JTurner : thanks for the grammar lesson :D About the capitalization, I alreadt changed it after rdanhenry's comment :/ Btw this map is a personnal project that I just wanted to share with the community in english but I'll keep this in mind.
@Eilathen and Vorro : thanks, I was thinking going with a more detailed one at the start but I restrain myself to only out the events that might change something on the map (heraldry, borders, labels names...)

- Max -
05-20-2013, 02:48 PM
Update : second age of Kesh. Did the second map with changes (following the timeline of the first map) : a few heraldry, borders, labels changes. New icon "ruins" in key and new icons added to match the second age timeline, put in the right cartouche.
Next step will be the third age with changes on the last map. Though i'm wondering what I'll do with the bottom right cartouche : Does a third timeline makes some sense since we won't see changes on a non exustent fourth map? I don't know....

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Schwarzkreuz
05-20-2013, 03:37 PM
You could write something about the changes between map 2/3, but empty would look strange. I think it would have been better to start on First Map with the Timeline leading to first map, instead of what leads to Map 2. So you could have a coherent Placement of timetables.

vorropohaiah
05-20-2013, 03:54 PM
i think a single long timeline that stretched from top to bottom would look better. i think that's what SK is saying. not sure :p

- Max -
05-20-2013, 03:57 PM
Hmm...Not sure this way of doing could have really shown the progression of time/events aplied on several maps. I thing the actual thing is pretty good since it tells some dynamic story : look one map, look what happens in the age of this map then switch to the second map, look the changes makes by the past events, look what happens in the current age then switch to the third map. But I though admit the last cartouche is kind of a problem atm.

vorropohaiah
05-20-2013, 04:04 PM
not sure why the third one is a problem. Each age should have its own timeline, for instance age 1 is year 0 - 100. age 2 is year 100 - 200 and age 3 is year 200 - 300.

or am i missing something?

- Max -
05-20-2013, 04:15 PM
No that's true. What I meant is, since the first two timeleines does changes on the furthers maps, is it a problem to have a last timeline and can't see the changes on another map? Don't sure if I'm clear :$

Chashio
05-20-2013, 06:54 PM
Oh, so what you're saying is that the results of each timeline don't show up on the current map but the one after? What if you arranged them horizontally instead of vertically?

- Max -
05-20-2013, 07:04 PM
Yes you got it. Hmm that would mean a lot of changes on the map I'll have to think about it :/

- Max -
05-20-2013, 07:43 PM
A suggestion from SK (saying that it wouldn't be a problem for Mr maximum mapmaker...Damn german :D) : adding a fourth map, bigger than the third ones on the bottom of the actual map ( Think that fill the whole width of the map) more detailed. Any thoughts about it?

Diamond
05-20-2013, 08:37 PM
i think a single long timeline that stretched from top to bottom would look better. i think that's what SK is saying. not sure :p

I like that idea...

- Max -
05-20-2013, 08:58 PM
Yes but not sure it will solve the current problem :?:

Schwarzkreuz
05-21-2013, 02:46 AM
I think you are too sticky to the deviding history or the narratives sorted into the Form of the Design,
History is a Flow, the 3 Maps only Moments of that Flow. So it should make a Lot of senses to has a continuous timeline. Let a structure guide you when its needed, and don't let it dominate your map

vorropohaiah
05-21-2013, 02:52 AM
A suggestion from SK (saying that it wouldn't be a problem for Mr maximum mapmaker...Damn german :D) : adding a fourth map, bigger than the third ones on the bottom of the actual map ( Think that fill the whole width of the map) more detailed. Any thoughts about it?

does it need it? unless there's a reason for it (ie something very different from the other maps that you can add to it that merits the extra size) i think the map looks fine as it is, also its more 'symmetrical' this way

arsheesh
05-21-2013, 05:00 AM
Just seeing this again. Wow, you've really done some nice work here -Max-, kudos.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

- Max -
05-21-2013, 06:59 AM
does it need it? unless there's a reason for it (ie something very different from the other maps that you can add to it that merits the extra size) i think the map looks fine as it is, also its more 'symmetrical' this way

I thought about it, no I think there's no specific reason to aff this fourth map and I agree that it will break the symmetrical look which isn't a good idea in my opinion.


I think you are too sticky to the deviding history or the narratives sorted into the Form of the Design,
History is a Flow, the 3 Maps only Moments of that Flow. So it should make a Lot of senses to has a continuous timeline. Let a structure guide you when its needed, and don't let it dominate your map

So yea you're kinda true but imo a map have also to be pleasant to look at. So I still have mixed thoughts about it, the continuous timeline sounds good but it would "break" a bit that symmetrical look that make the map interesting to look at (at least I hope). And the basic idea that guided the structure of the map was to set up the three ages. At this stage I thin I need to think about it...

And Thanks much Arsheesh :)

Chashio
05-21-2013, 12:21 PM
I think the biggest twist my brain is muddled over with this is that the timeline that's positioned with each map doesn't go with that map. Maybe just me, but I'd think it'd be more ... ah ... I'm too tired to think of the word, but it'd make more sense to have the timeline items show up on the current map... so the events of each age's timeline are represented on the map next to that timeline. Does that make sense at all? So if you separated the maps they would each stand by themselves and tell their own story within that age... not reference another map.

Why are you putting the maps all on one page in the first place? Yeah, it's an interesting layout... I've never seen one like it to be sure... but if it were hanging on a wall I'd need a stepladder to see all the details properly; the only truly comfortable way to view it is on a computer screen with built-in zoom. My thought with the horizontal alignment of the maps, well, think of it like a scroll, or the pages of a History volume if you like. There are a lot of those. They work.

It just seems like the crux of your problem is that the maps and timelines don't match up so you're having to come up with a fix for the end/bottom of it. Maybe I'm too tired to think straight, but it all seems an unnecessary conundrum.

Schwarzkreuz
05-21-2013, 08:41 PM
Basicly what Chashio said is waht I said severl times already. The alignment of the map to the Text dont make much sense for me, and I would just move down Timeline 1 and 2 become 2 and 3. Add a Origine storyline in Timetable 1 and all is solved.....

vorropohaiah
05-22-2013, 12:36 AM
This. What sk said!

- Max -
05-22-2013, 03:17 AM
I'm not sure I explained things very clear :/ In fact actual timelines are related to their maps. Timeline 1 is history of events past in the time of map 1. They just cause changes that you can further see then on the map 2. But timeline 2 talks about the events of the second age (map2). By the ways maybe this idea was a bit confused to work on the map or a bit too complicated, so the idea from SK is probably the easiest to set up without breaking the all map design and look (which I actually like :D ).
Well, thanks Chasio, SK and Vorro for your time and your suggestions about that, it's much appreciated. And don't worry Chasio, if it were hanging on your wall, you'd see it's not that big so no need for a stepladder! ;)

Chashio
05-22-2013, 11:48 AM
A magnifying glass then. ;)

- Max -
05-22-2013, 12:55 PM
:D Of course if you wanna buy the map I'll provide the magnifying glass right with it ;)

- Max -
06-07-2013, 10:34 PM
NO, this thread isn't dead :D
I'll go back to work on Kesh as soon as I'll be done wuth Yphyrion (which should be soon). I'll use SK's idea and move down Timeline 1 and 2, which will become 2 and 3, then add an origine storyline in Timetable 1.

Diamond
06-08-2013, 12:13 AM
And there was rejoicing in the land! :D

Viking
06-08-2013, 01:03 AM
Great to hear :)

Schwarzkreuz
06-08-2013, 02:53 PM
Great to see a complete version soon.

- Max -
06-08-2013, 04:05 PM
Yup I'm almost done with Yphyrion (well that means that I have a few dozens streets to label :D ). I'll go back to Kesh after that... Well along some commissions and other projects :D

ThePatrick
10-03-2013, 03:09 PM
The parchment marbleization is really fantastic. It gives the whole map such a real feeling and authentic looks. It makes the whole map unique. Again the plenty details are great as in your other work. Also the coast lines have their own style with the shadowing engraving (hope to use the wright words).

It is really difficult to decide, which of your maps are the best, but I definitively feel drawn toward that parchment looks!! Could look at your maps the whole day long and forget about computers ....