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View Full Version : What is in a City!!!



lilrocker90
05-07-2013, 10:31 AM
Hey Everyone,

I am only new to all this. I have had a large interest in maps and mapping for some years, mainly thanks to my Father. Sadly he has passed away too soon and has left me with all of his hand drawn maps, which is amazing with such detail. This has urged me into mapping as some sort of Hobby. I have bought CC3 with CD3 as well as Fractal Terrains 2or3 i forget... My main focus right now is creating a grand city and I have some idea as to what I want it to look like. But I need some help, and what better place to get help then from this great community. What I ask of you is to help me list what a grand medieval type city needs and generally where certain building would be situated, for example, would the temple me placed close to the Lord's Keep or on the other side of the city.

I know it may not be much to go on, but any help would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks :)

vorropohaiah
05-07-2013, 11:16 AM
there was a thread around here about a month ago with a pretty comprehensive list of building and things you might find in a city... though i cant seem to find it. ill keep on trying

foremost
05-07-2013, 11:58 AM
No worries... I got it! All of these professions have their own buildings (well, mostly). Remember one person might do multiple things.

54319

AMXPariah
05-07-2013, 12:18 PM
I found this (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=XRPFREE1) quite helpful when I started. If you're a numbers guy, you might like it. The full book is a fantastic read.

Lalaithion
05-07-2013, 12:42 PM
Also, this website (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm) has an interesting chart about halfway down that will help you estimate the approximate number of things, such as taverns or doctors, based on the population of the city.

AMXPariah
05-07-2013, 01:13 PM
Also, this website (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/demog.htm) has an interesting chart about halfway down that will help you estimate the approximate number of things, such as taverns or doctors, based on the population of the city.
Shiny. Nice find.

lilrocker90
05-07-2013, 10:25 PM
thanks for help... I'll be sure to post the finished product when I am happy with it!

Korash
05-07-2013, 10:58 PM
Why wait 'til you have a finished product? We have a great community here that just BEGS for the opportunity to help people improve their maps and by posting your Work In progress in the WIPs you would be helping to satisfy their cravings... ;) Either post it here or create a new thread with the work and I am sure you will get all kinds of suggestions/critiques/praises as you may need or desire.

rdanhenry
05-08-2013, 02:25 AM
What kind of city? For a fantasy city, the population breaks down into:

Drunk barroom brawlers 15%
Barkeeps 1%
Barmaids 2%
Beggars 12%
Town Guards 4%
Mysterious Strangers 2%
Harlots 10%
Shopkeepers 3%
Craftsmen 2%
Wizards, Kings, and Misc. 1%
Thieves 48%

lilrocker90
05-08-2013, 09:07 AM
This is the first update... It doesn't have a name just yet.

54356

This town/city isn't going to be your typical town/city with a heap of slums and low end parts of the town/city... there still will be those parts, but for the most part it is a fairly well off town/city.

The island in the middle holds the Lord's Keep with the supporting buildings. These include the workers housing, kitchen house, docks and stables.

The large building within the walls to the west of the Keep is the Temple with the Chaplains Quarters the small building in between the trees

To the north of the Keep within the walls are the Barracks and Archery Range as well as the Army Stables.

Then the buildings to the immediate south of the Keep are some of the living quarters for the local population. This includes a couple of marketplaces and Inn's. You will notice some of the housing has fencing, living here are some of the most well off families.

If you are wondering why there are a fair few rich families in this city, there are other towns and villages in the surrounding area that supply the income to the town/city and the more better off people and families ave earned their way into living in this town/city.

I hope you all like the look of it... and please any help would be great.

Schwarzkreuz
05-08-2013, 09:58 AM
This Looks quit good so far, and your concept for the City Sounds convincing

Talondor
05-11-2013, 07:11 PM
I happen to be watching a documentary on the History Channel about Roman vice right now, and looking over the couple of lists that lists medieval professions, I notice there are some that could be associated with the gritty underside of a city, such as brothels and casinos/gambling dens. But I did not see anything specifically linked to a bath house, which could be common in any medieval-like city, whether fancy upper-class or those that are little better then brothels.

jbgibson
05-12-2013, 12:35 AM
Shawn Vincent has a delightfully comprehensive list of medieval occupations. (http://www.svincent.com/MagicJar/Economics/MedievalOccupations.html)

Consider whether you're setting up a generic city, or one with oddities, quirks, and specializations. You mentioned it's a central location for commerce - maybe administration too? Then perhaps you have more bookkeepers, lawyers, lenders, and wagoners. Maybe instead of a handful of members of a certain trade guild, this city has a regional HQ hall for that guild, particularly if its a local specialty. Maybe they make scads of pottery yet have to ship in all their glass - that could stem from as simple a thing as the land being all clay and no sand.

Have you detailed your society? Earth's Scandinavians would expect plentiful sauna- type bathhouses, where the English or French might regard such as dens of torture :-). When mapping some of these occupations, allow enough space. A stable/ wheelwright/ carriage maker/ tack and feed enterprise might have quite an open yard, even in the middle of a city. Suppliers of building materials would have store yards, as would dealers in bulk products like firewood or coal. Without refrigeration, butchers might keep some meat 'on the hoof' until needed, or in a big enough place a slaughterhouse and stockyard could serve a whole district of butchers and tanners.

About the map itself - great start. Some of your shadows are adding up - darker due to tower plus wall just isn't how light works ;-). The layout begs to have an enemy defeat the three main fortifications in detail -- looks like once under attack, if the enemy is within an outermost city wall (that's what the right edge is?) there would be no way to shift defenders from church to keep to barracks. If the walls are historical artifacts and no longer needed, you'd maybe see more gates and gaps. Your shading is doing a good job of making it come alive- now your river could use at least a hint of banks and their shadows.

I like it - I look forward to seeing it develop.

WillP
05-12-2013, 01:11 AM
Talondor,

I'm just drawing this from my head (No Google for now) so I might be totally off-base, but from my understanding of the bath houses of the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages, they were literally just that, somewhere to bathe, not for any "less than pious" purposes that some modern bath houses have become known for. I do believe they were very common, especially in the warmer latitudes.

Talondor
05-12-2013, 02:23 AM
Talondor,

I'm just drawing this from my head (No Google for now) so I might be totally off-base, but from my understanding of the bath houses of the Roman Empire and the Middle Ages, they were literally just that, somewhere to bathe, not for any "less than pious" purposes that some modern bath houses have become known for. I do believe they were very common, especially in the warmer latitudes.

Tell that to the writers of the documentary I just saw. I saw it in this one as well as others that Roman bath houses come in many forms, from social clubs to brothels to just baths, all centered around the baths.

Anyway, the point of my post was that I did not see anything on the profession lists that related to working in just a bath house.

AMXPariah
05-12-2013, 05:51 PM
I for one know that when I leave my 'special' bathhouse, I feel clean and refreshed ;)

jbgibson
05-13-2013, 01:45 AM
This long other list of old vocations (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~usgwkidz/oldjobs.htm) brings up the thought that with such narrow, specific trade names, some manufacturing must have been in either big enterprises, or parceled out among a bunch of parts-makers. That doesn't have a huge impact on city mapping *except* maybe there's both a tubber's alley and hooper's close off of cooper's street. Just *having* a whole street named Bungmaker's Lane could imply there's a LOT of liquids being barreled. It's always fun to plant implications for the careful reader of your map to draw ;-).

Deaghaidh
05-14-2013, 03:12 PM
Anyone know about a similar list for an age of steam setting?

WillP
05-14-2013, 04:45 PM
AMX, and you feel happy.

Midgardsormr
05-14-2013, 10:50 PM
I haven't been able to turn up a list of jobs during the Industrial Revolution, but the general pattern is a decline in cottage industry as many products could be made more efficiently in factories. Also, tenant farmers and poor landowners began to lose out to mechanized farming, driving many people who had previously been in agriculture into the cities. Many of these farmers and craftspeople became unskilled labor in the factories, alongside many women and children. The apprenticeship system collapsed, but it was quickly replaced by formal schooling, as there was a greater need for educated clerks and managers in the factories.

Steam power also created a much larger need for coal, so coal mining, the management thereof, and the transportation industry created many jobs.

jbgibson
05-14-2013, 10:52 PM
Deaghaidh, Google "Victorian occupations". That's the 1890's, but many would hold true into Earth's 1920's. First up was this from an 1891 census. (http://www.census1891.com/occupations.htm)

Nyarlathoteps_Evil_Twin
05-29-2013, 08:31 AM
I'm doing something similar in terms of building a grand city as a game setting - I found this list of medieval professions (http://arcana.wikidot.com/list-of-medieval-european-professions)which might be useful.