View Full Version : [Unpaid] Area that's completely without sun

08-03-2013, 10:26 AM
If you had a valley on the east side of a continent with high mountains on the north, west, and south; dark clouds continually above the valley.

How would a worlds atmospheric qualities, elevation, and temperature regions be used to cause such a phenomenon?

Would there have to be a strong winds and of what temperature to keep the snow from pilling up? Could the temperature remain warm enough to slowly melt or a warm breeze swoops in from some air current to melt a lot of the snow, but somehow keep the overcast skies?

what I'm looking for is a scientific explanation for an enclosed area that has 24 hour darkness, but during the warmer seasons (when the sun does come out) has constant thick cloud cover with warm enough temperature that the snow may stick a little, but melts over time.

I was thinking about an area where high atmospheric winds carried a consistent rain/snow pattern from extreme heat conditions over a certain part of the ocean that causes a very large evaporation rate in a particular area, thus creating the heavy conditions. However, I'm at a loss to what temperature it's needed to keep these conditions, speed of the wind, and times of a particular year. How far away this boiling like conditions take place or if they should be sun related or geothermal upheaval?

I'm trying to look for an explanation for a valley that is never without clouds, never showing the blue sky. Any help would be appreciated!

I'd also appreciate how the rest of the worlds weather might turn out. I want to stick with our world distance from the sun, single moon, and any other natural aspect of our universe, but if anything needs to be added, I understand. I'm just trying to look for a logical explanation. Thanks!!

08-03-2013, 10:46 AM
I think you are in the wrong section since it's a question and not a order but I can't move the topic anyway. SO...

It's not rreally possible to have clouds all the time since the water that forms them have to fall eventually. But they will reform. If it's located between the tropics, there will be more evaporation, so more clouds but no snow. If it's in a low pressure zone, it's more likely that the winds will come toward the valley, bringing moisture or dry air dependig on surronding. But even with the perfect conditions, it's not possible to have a perfect cover. So my best solution would be a tropical climate with lot of humidity high temperature, maybe like the Amazon but more extreme, if it's possible.

For more info you can check here : The Climate Cookbook (http://jc.tech-galaxy.com/bricka/climate_cookbook.html)

08-03-2013, 11:17 AM
Then if my method wouldn't work, how would you accomplish a cold environment that doesn't see sunlight for most the seasons, which does have rain/snow fall during a single season. However, it is on land, not ice.

What area would it be located at?
What kind of pressure would be needed (cold/hot) and at what wind speeds?
What elevation?
Rising or Falling air and in what direction?
What sort of mountainous regions would be required?

Get what I'm asking?

08-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Ok well southern newfoundland seems to have a similar climateé. Heavy precipitation in winter but not too cold. And a lot of fog in summer. Wikipedia tells it's the foggiest place on earth. It's as good as cloud.
Seasonal Characteristics: Newfoundland and Labrador Heritage (http://www.heritage.nf.ca/environment/seasonal.html)

Fog occur because of two oceanic curent with big difference of temperature merge. So it's coastal or near the coast.

or this

according to the Köppen climate classification : Köppen climate classification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification) look to Maritime Temperate climates espacially

What area would it be located at? not too far from the sea I suposse
What kind of pressure would be needed (cold/hot) and at what wind speeds? Low pressure, see the cookbook
What elevation? no idea could be high or low depoending on the climate
Rising or Falling air and in what direction? the moist need to come fromn elsewhere like the ocean
What sort of mountainous regions would be required? tall enough to block cloud from going the other side

Get what I'm asking? what do you mean by that ?

08-03-2013, 12:55 PM
Thank you for the information.

"Do you understand what I'm saying?" I was asking if I explained it properly for others to understand.

Fog sounds like an excellent alternative!

08-03-2013, 03:13 PM
You might also be able to do something with geothermal vents. If you have a cold climate with a lot of moisture, and there is a source of fairly continuous heat upwind of your valley, you might be able to sustain cloud cover more consistently.

I don't have time to think about that very deeply, and my understanding of meteorology is fairly weak to start with, but to my uneducated mind, that seems plausible.

And yes, this thread would be more appropriate in the General, or General and Miscellaneous Mapping, or possibly How Do I?? forum. I'm sure a mod will be by in a few hours to relocate it.

08-03-2013, 03:44 PM
Informative! I understand that this would be better somewhere else, but I was unsure at the time of creation. I'm unaware on how to move it.

An enclosed mountainous area that houses a valley that is caught at the crossing paths of a northern chilled wind and a southern warm current. The ocean on its east side is spotted with geothermal vents that cause an upheaval of warm water, which would also promote a very active fish community.

That could be a very plausible scenario, but is there something that I'm not understanding with this environment? What else should there be and at what temperatures would the most ideal atmosphere be at. I want it to be a fairly chilly environment, but I don't need snow. Would there be a lot of rainfall? I know that the Great Banks get around 50 inches a year.

Thanks for the help guys!

08-03-2013, 04:06 PM
How cold do you want it to be, can you give an example of a real place ? Newfoundland is chilly compared to europeen standards.
Do you need a lot of precipitation ?

08-03-2013, 04:12 PM
I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough about climate to give a answer about clouds, etc, but what about making the area highly volcanic and instead of clouds the area has a large amount of ash/smoke cover. Just an idea although that might not fit with the environment you are trying to create.

08-03-2013, 05:25 PM
Newfoundland is what I've been looking at for the last few hours. Studying up on its climate. It is considered the foggiest place on earth, I believe an average of 210 days a year have clouded conditions.

In response to the precipitation. I suspect that there will be continually varying density with cyclones, but it should be fairly heavy (I think).

I'm thinking about contrast thermal winds that collide near this area and cycling wind that blows it into the valley. Then the mountain wind keeps it bunched into the valley. There can be some volcanic activity along the shelf (which I THINK will promote a healthy aquatic environment), but I'm not sure the effects it would have overall.

With the chill. I think it needs to be at least 33 degrees, but not hot enough to reach a maximum of 75. I know that must be a tough if not impossible order. Any holes people would like to punch into the idea?