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octopod
07-16-2008, 12:33 AM
I looked through the old threads on this forum and on the wiki and couldn't find these answers, so here they are; sorry if I missed them somewhere else.

1) What is the scale of the current map? (How big are the blocks?) The fractal nature of coastlines makes it damned hard to figure out.

2) What is the general idea of the world? Are we eventually planning a full globe's worth of map space, and if so, how big is the relevant globe? And where is the current area on it, in terms of lat/long?

3) By what means is the geography created? That is, is there any kind of overarching geological idea going on, has anyone poked at the continental plates or anything, or is it just someone pushing a button on a simple terrain generator?

I'll probably have more questions, but these are the first and most important things I'd like to know. I'd hate to not know something like this from the get-go, especially the first one.

Gamerprinter
07-16-2008, 12:46 AM
OK, I'm not one the CWBP experts, just a participant, however...

1. Each block is approximately 600 x 600 miles. Note these are longitudenal lines north to south and they do converge closer together the further north you go, so these aren't true blocks.Still most of the map squares have been created at 600 x 600, however.

2. The actual FT created world we chose to use for the CWBP includes several continents. We didn't want to start the project all over the place, so we focused on one of the larger continents. The regions are only of the northwest half/quarter of the current continent. We haven't even opened those regions yet. At the moment, we are populated the existing regions.

3. The world was FT generated, thus pretty much push button. Not that someone shouldn't create a reasonable plate tectonics map that could justify the current geography, this method wasn't approached at the start of the project.

Someone, (NeonKnight, I believe) created a dozen or so random FT terrain maps and we posted a poll to vote, which one to take. We picked this one and that's how the project started. We weren't all that scientific about it.

GP

octopod
07-16-2008, 01:07 AM
Thanks for your answers...
I just found the master map here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2879&d=1206670594). The terrain (especially the ocean floors) indicates that there's no way to use continental plates, so there's that. Good to know.

Very cool that all the topography exists already, though I'm not sure it all makes complete sense in terms of water forms, and there's no coherent tectonic stuff that I can figure out off the top of my head.

What are the expert opinions around here regarding geopolitics? Can we make them up yet, or do we want to wait?

NeonKnight
07-16-2008, 02:17 AM
The Geopolitics were pretty much 'made-up'.

For example, I envisioned the area I did, the Thanelands of Skoldavia, as somewhat Norse with maybe a little Celtic/Saxon infusion. That's my area, but that doesn't mean that is the predominant theme of the land. The Plaguelands to me seem a little more Germanic in feel, while further south more Arabic.

Again, this is just my feelings on it.

waldronate
07-16-2008, 02:59 AM
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1769 has a general discussion of the base map

I did an example of the size and placement of the area when placed on a globe. It still amuses me that the southernmost areas of that map are about at the latitude of Moscow. Be sure to click on the images in my post on that thread because the placement and size examples are animated GIFs that fade from the base map to a real-world map.

The map was done using the default terrain generator in Fractal Terrains (it's a simple noise-based generator with no attempt to be "physically correct"). Seeing yet another generic FT map prompted me to write up the tutorial at http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/CGTutorial/ but it was already too late.

SeerBlue
07-16-2008, 03:41 AM
The area being worked falls within a bounding box of
WEST LONGITUDE=40.900618 E
NORTH LATITUDE=64.514710 N
EAST LONGITUDE=80.466861 E
SOUTH LATITUDE=30.922578 N
COVERED AREA=4278335 sq mi
give or take a bit, I've been awake to long to nudge much in Global Mapper to get much more accurate. I posted a pick, ( in wagnerhammer, joost cause oi loike it).
here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=26585#post26585), because I couldn't find the ones done by Waldronate, he beat me to it.
SeerBlue

NeonKnight
07-16-2008, 03:57 AM
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1769 has a general discussion of the base map

I did an example of the size and placement of the area when placed on a globe. It still amuses me that the southernmost areas of that map are about at the latitude of Moscow. Be sure to click on the images in my post on that thread because the placement and size examples are animated GIFs that fade from the base map to a real-world map.

The map was done using the default terrain generator in Fractal Terrains (it's a simple noise-based generator with no attempt to be "physically correct"). Seeing yet another generic FT map prompted me to write up the tutorial at http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/CGTutorial/ but it was already too late.

Not, sure, I checked that thread and you have this image with the CWBP world become super imposed with the Earth and......Italy shows as being located at the equator. Watch the world change. Also, Africa's Cape Horn and Torq's home seem to be located at the south pole ;)

http://www.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4158&d=1212736939

octopod
07-16-2008, 01:04 PM
::reads tutorial::

That is the coolest software in the entire world. WOW. Also, the world you developed in the tutorial looks quite nice.

OK, so this territory is roughly Scandinavian. That changes my plans somewhat climate-wise, that's for sure...this is very useful.

Maybe you should apply a bit of the basin-fill/erosion to the original cooperative world map? Although I guess everyone's kind of doing their own landscape weathering on their segment, based on what I've seen.

waldronate
07-16-2008, 01:13 PM
Yep, I completely messed up those globes. I believed the perspective globe projection that Google Earth was showing without realizing it was a perspective rather than orthographic projection.

In the other thread I dumped the size comparison globe and redid the position comparison one to be in the same projection for both maps. It's not all arctic, just the inland northern areas.

octopod
07-16-2008, 01:19 PM
Oh, I see. Crap, now I'm confused again.

Maybe I'll move all the relevant reference maps onto the Wiki if no-one objects?

SeerBlue
07-16-2008, 10:59 PM
Octopod, here are two png files, on the CWBP with the current bounds marked, and one realworld imagery with the current bounds marked. Lat and Long as well.
Both are in Platte Caree, referenced to top right -180,90 bottom left 180, -90
Maybe this will help.
Of course real world parallels all depend on axial tilt and so on, I don't know if that was ever delved into, or do we even dare.
SeerBlue

NeonKnight
07-16-2008, 11:17 PM
Well, pulling up the world files, I can tell you the following:

CWBP is:

Highest point: 30000 feet
Lowest point: -30000
Equatorial Circumference: 25200 miles
Percent Sea: 61
Axial Tilt: 20
Planetary temperature Model
Albedo: 0.3
Light: 1 Sun
Greenhouse 1.1

Earth:
Highest Point: +/- 29000 feet (various sources list different altitudes for Everest)
Lowest Point: 35,838 feet (Mariana Trench, Pacific Ocean)
Equatorial Circumference: 24,899 miles
Percent Sea: @ 70%
Axial Tilt: varies between 22.1 and 24.5
Planetary temperature Model
Albedo: 0.3
Light: 1 Sun
Greenhouse 1.1

So, this planet is a little larger than Earth, with a little bit more land and less sea, and a higher 'arctic circle', so this means the tropics are the same, but the warmer temperatures creep just a little further north. Not a lot further, but just a little.

octopod
07-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Thanks very much -- I was actually not sure what projection we were using, so this clears up a great deal. I'd already worked out that square (by typing it into Google Maps! haha) but it's good to be able to refer to it like this.

Well, the other thread said that the axial tilt of the world was 20 degrees, so that puts the polar circles for our world at 70 degrees latitude north and south.

SeerBlue
07-16-2008, 11:49 PM
Hey Redrobes, do you have a sane sized heightfield of the whole world in HF2/HFZ Format, or any other format I could get into Global Mapper. Got something I want to try involving the rain fall and temp maps and the heightfield.
SeerBlue

Octopod, I am not sure what the original projection was out of FT, I used Platte Caree as I already had the real world ecw on hand in that projection, and did not want to dl it again, very slow.

NeonKnight
07-17-2008, 12:41 AM
The original projection was Equirectangular.

There is also some Rainfall/average temperature maps around too.

Also, the East/west location of the box is inconsequential as that is arbitrary. The only thing that matters is the north/south locations of said box. So, sliding the box west to Europe would give a great correlation between the CWBP and the Real World.

SeerBlue
07-17-2008, 12:57 AM
That's right, I remember a post now where it was suggested that the east and west edges of the map be set so as to not cut a landmass in two.

I found the rainfall and temp maps earlier, that is what prompted me to ask for the heightfield, so I can fidget with them in Global Mapper
SeerBlue

Redrobes
07-17-2008, 11:31 AM
do you have a sane sized heightfield of the whole world in HF2/HFZ Format, or any other format I could get into Global Mapper.

I have uploaded a 4K x 2K zipped HF2.
www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/ThinkBig/World/World_4Kx2K.zip

Its been vertically scaled so that max height is 10000m which is pretty close to what Neon said it ought to be.

Thats about 12Mb the full size is about 40Mb zipped.

SeerBlue
07-18-2008, 07:16 AM
Thanks Redrobes, got it, let the kids at it in Global Mapper, and posted their start of something for back story filler in the Snapgallows thread, though it will go on the backburner until after I catch up with them with Hebbies and Snapgallows. SeerBlue

octopod
07-18-2008, 03:52 PM
OK, next question. What "civilized" species exist in this world? Are we going with D&D core races, or Tolkien core races, or whatever-you-want? Because I'd like to have some kind of plague-resistant humanoids living in region 15, and I'm planning on taking off running with the "small hillfolk from the Greater Uzuid Range" mentioned in East Groam on the wiki, but I'd like to know what this is -- are these naturally plague-resistant small people halflings, or gnomes, or some subset thereof?

waldronate
07-18-2008, 06:44 PM
I think the idea was the races that were substandard on the height front but enhanced on the consitution front tended to be less affected / be immune to the plague. Halflings have been mentioned as well as gnomes. Dwarfies are likely suffering from the same sort of "can't catch it" difficulty.

Maybe it's just one race of haffers that's spreading it but all of the stunties are being purged anyway because the big races can't tell one from another.

NeonKnight
07-18-2008, 07:05 PM
Well, the game system that seems the most accepted/used by the majority is D&D, so I would say if you want, go with that as a baseline, but most of the stuff is left pretty much system-neutral.

Midgardsormr
07-18-2008, 09:55 PM
I mixed a little bit of Torq's description of Groam with the knowledge that su_liam is working up halflings ("stoutlings") to the south, and I implied that the hillfolk, the indigenous people of the Tawaren and Groam, might have been stoutlings, or somehow related to the stoutlings

I never really pinned down what they are, but at the moment, I'm leaning toward something similar to a halfling, but perhaps a little taller and semi-nomadic.

I think there's plenty of room for variations on that particular theme. There may be several different strains of the race, expressing many different cultures.

Incidentally, I like what you've done with the wiki entry for the Tawaren Basin. I kept futilely checking my own map looking for the landmarks you wrote about. Feel free to work up more data within the western part of Tawaren if it suits you.

Sigurd
07-21-2008, 03:42 AM
I don't think this is going to become a 'finished project' any time soon. My guess is that you're free to make something that appeals to you either:

1. Self contained in your region.

2. A logical extension of any other region so long as it doesn't require a change to what has already been written.

ie. don't expect features of your region to determine the condition of other regions - a culture might think its all alone but the next writer could create another cell elsewhere.


sigurd

Airith
08-01-2008, 05:02 PM
How close are we following this? http://www.cartographersguild.com/showpost.php?p=16220&postcount=26
It has seemed to stuck for a few regions, but I'm not sure really.

NeonKnight
08-01-2008, 05:44 PM
Its a good measure more as an overview, than a hard and fast thing.

If you think of Groam as being the area bordering the Plaguelands, and think of Groam as possibly being equivalent to Eastern European, and Shergal=Europe in scope.

selden
08-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Redrobes,

You previously wrote

I have uploaded a 4K x 2K zipped HF2.
www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/ThinkBig/World/World_4Kx2K.zip

Its been vertically scaled so that max height is 10000m which is pretty close to what Neon said it ought to be.

Thats about 12Mb the full size is about 40Mb zipped.

Unfortunately, that file seems to have evaporated. (I get a 404)

Could you make the heightfield available again?
Could it and the other global maps be put on the CWBP Wiki, perhaps?

Thanks.

Redrobes
08-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Hi Selden, I will have a look shortly but if I don't reply then buzz me about it again in a few days. Having a few technical difficulties here so I am not firing on all cylinders. Neon had the original height map tho and I took it to generate that world pic. The pic is up there somewhere but I don't know where about on web server right at this moment. I think the pic is up as a JPG or PNG somewhere instead of zip tho.

selden
08-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Redrobes,

No rush. I have the relief map.
I'd like to use the heightmap to generate a bumpmap and a specularmap for use with Celestia, so the shading and sunlight reflections change as the planet rotates.

Thanks!