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arsheesh
01-07-2014, 04:12 PM
Greetings Guilders, to kick off the new year this month's challenge is to make a map (or series of maps) to be used as part of a game. The map could come in the form of a static game board, or as part of a modular game board (e.g. as hexes or cards). How you choose to present the map is entirely up to you. However, all entries should include the following:


A quick description or summary of how the game is played;
A visual representation of other elements of your game (e.g. cards, pieces, tokens etc).


As always, please include the following in your entry threads:


Title each new thread January 2014 Entry - <your title>

Precede each WIP image with the tag ### Latest WIP ###.

The challenge will end on or around the first of February, and the winner will receive a golden compass, an enviable accolade here at the Guild.

Carbus
01-07-2014, 04:40 PM
I guess my entry was on the wrong month xD

arsheesh
01-07-2014, 04:49 PM
I guess my entry was on the wrong month xD

I'd been meaning to get around to doing a board game challenge again for a while now; your Nov challenge entry just reminded me to do it ;).

Jalyha
01-07-2014, 09:47 PM
Hi, I was wondering if these contests are open to everyone or just the pros?

I'm new to the whole idea of map-making, and I only vaguely understand the challenge (board game map? @_o) so I am sure I would be in absolute last place, but I think participating would be a good experience, so... ?

Anyway, so I was wondering if "newbies" can participate. (Officially and unofficially). I didn't see anything about that in the rules.

Thank you.

Larb
01-07-2014, 09:55 PM
The challenges are open to absolutely everyone - infact it's preferred that as many people as possible join.

There are two types of challenge - there is the regularly monthly challenge and there is the lite challenge. The lite challenge tends to be a smaller project than the regular one so that it is less intimidating to new people or those with much less time on their hands. But you can enter whichever you wish.

I have always seen the challenge as a fun way to gain experience mapping things I would never normally consider trying. It encourages people to move outside of their comfort zone. It's not a super competitive thing. And you get good feedback too.

arsheesh
01-07-2014, 10:14 PM
What Larb said. A little clarification on 'this' month's challenge, the idea is simply to come up with a game that uses a map for its board (e.g. Risk, Civilization, Ticket to Ride, Settlers of Katan etc) or, if it is not a board game, utilizes a map in some other fashion.

Jalyha
01-08-2014, 11:37 AM
Thank you both. :)

I was fairly sure there wasn't a hard and fast "rule" against it, but was worried about "Noob Go Home"-type posts, if a newbie had the gall to enter. :p (It's happened on other forums.) But I'm interested anyway. I've found the best way to learn new things/find out about new places is to dive right in as if you belong there. :)

Anyway...

After reading this and looking at both, I think the Lite Challenge might be more my speed... although with it being close to finished, I don't know if it would make sense to enter now... lol. So I'll try to invent a game, I suppose :?:

Thanks again.

~Jalyha

Salama
01-08-2014, 12:12 PM
Hey, this sounds like a lot of fun! Never participated in these before, maybe now is the time...

Diamond
01-08-2014, 01:06 PM
I was fairly sure there wasn't a hard and fast "rule" against it, but was worried about "Noob Go Home"-type posts, if a newbie had the gall to enter. :p (It's happened on other forums.)
Y'know, in all my years here, I can honestly say I've never seen that happen. This is genuinely and consistently the friendliest place I've ever seen on the interwebs.


But I'm interested anyway. I've found the best way to learn new things/find out about new places is to dive right in as if you belong there. :)
Yep. Just make it up as you go along. That's what I do. :D

Schwarzkreuz
01-08-2014, 06:25 PM
Any two Player Game can also be submited to the Boargamegeek contest If its an original game

Cunning Cartographer
01-09-2014, 01:09 PM
Hey, this sounds like a lot of fun! Never participated in these before, maybe now is the time...

Do it :)

I personally will be skipping this months as I have so much else on that I'm trying to get running, so I'll be watching on with envy at the entries.

Jalyha
01-09-2014, 01:40 PM
I'm sure this is somehow obvious to everyone else, but ... I help with a "fansite" for a popular games app. It's mostly forums really, and very small at the moment, and no money changes hands. Yet we had a close call because a logo appeared on the site. No one cares about that, it wasn't a big deal, but it's why copyrights and related miscellania are on my mind right now.

I get the whole "copyright" thing, in a very basic way. But I'm more.. old school (think pre-internet). If you didn't make something, it's not yours. Right? But then there's this whole "Creative Commons"/"Expired Copyright" thing... and something else that allows you to play with other people's stuff if you don't profit from it... and... I don't get it.

ANYway. I had two ideas for games, and I nixed them, because someone else owns the source. 1) A boardgame "Race for Space Mountain" that's basically a (simplified) map of Disney, with challenges like your mom dragging you through "It's a Small World" or getting scared in the Haunted mansion. 2) A board game version of "Rise of Nations".

Now, the MAIN reason I'm not doing either of those is, well, I don't have the "skillz". :p I wouldn't even know how to begin. BUT... the excuse I gave myself was that those things belong to other people. Rise of Nations belongs to Big Huge Games, and Disney belongs to, well, Disney. I think. So I can't mess with them.

And then I saw the (as of yet, only) entry, which is a new version of Risk. Now, maybe it's because Risk has been around forever, right? And then I start browsing the internet, and apparently, there's all kinds of people doing similar things with every kind of game/movie/book you can think of.

So... I don't understand.

Is it a matter of the age of the product/copyright? Is it okay as long as you change it *enough*? Is it acceptable if you don't make a profit? Would my game ideas be acceptable? (I'm not going to make them, but if someone else wanted to...) What's the difference between designing the game and posting it on a public forum, or trying to market it for sale?

I *did* try searching the forums, and some "legal stuff for dummies" type articles, but I still don't get it. And I didn't know where else to post this, since this is the challenge that confused me...

Anyway, if someone could help me figure this out, I'd be grateful. :) (or move my post if it doesn't belong here?)

Thanks :D

~Jalyha

eelaeg
01-09-2014, 02:51 PM
(I am not a lawyer and I also do not take any responsibility for the consequences of this advice)

I've seen, if you have a project that violates copyrights but isn't commercial, then the worst you can expect is a cease&desist letter that will ask you to stop distributing your project. If it's a personal project anyway (or for your friends), then that shouldn't be a problem.

Disney has infamously vicious lawyers ( snopes.com: Daycare Center Murals (http://www.snopes.com/disney/wdco/daycare.asp) ), you shouldn't try luck with Disney.


Is it a matter of the age of the product/copyright?
By the US law, pre-1923 works are Public Domain; also if the author of the work has been dead for at least 70 years, then the work is Public Domain.


And then I saw the (as of yet, only) entry, which is a new version of Risk
It almost certainly couldn't be published commercially in big stores without attracting at least a cease&desist letter.

It's a matter of, does the copyright owner notice your violation of his copyrights and does he bother to get involved. One image in some forum post with 3 replies is obviously below such a threshold.

- Max -
01-09-2014, 03:03 PM
By the US law, pre-1923 works are Public Domain; also if the author of the work has been dead for at least 70 years, then the work is Public Domain.

Except of course if any people (family members most of time) has inherited of the author's work rights ;)

Carbus
01-09-2014, 03:05 PM
About Rise of Nations, I thinke there is no problem doing it. If you turn it into a board game you may call it a "demake"(Video game remake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_remake)).
And I can`t think of anything unique to it, it`s a game about history. But if you are taling about Rise of Legends it does have some unique settings, but nothing that stops you from doing personal stuff.

eelaeg
01-09-2014, 03:11 PM
Except of course if any people (family members most of time) has inherited of the author's work rights ;)

Huh? The people who will inherit the rights will be the ones who will hold the rights during those 70 years; after that, it will be Public Domain (eg: Tolkien died in 1973; +70=2043. His estate (his son?) will hold those rights till then).

Jalyha
01-09-2014, 03:25 PM
So.... let me see if I understand this...

For purposes of, say, a fun little forum contest in which the game/book/blurb/whatever isn't going to go anywhere, you don't really need to worry about copyright stuff in individual posts. Unless:

1) The people who own the original material ask you to stop.

Or 2) It's something Disney, because their lawyers will devour your soul and steal your firstborn child. (See, I know how to read between the lines).

If you get a letter saying take it down, you take it down, if not, nbd.

AND

If the person who copyrighted it has been dead for 70 years, anyone can use it however.

Uh... could someone, then, once it's been 70 years, use the material (with or without significant changes) and file for a new copyright?

Also... Can a *company* hold a copyright? If so does it ever expire?


Finally, in terms of the contest... things like Risk, or even Rise of Nations reworks are okay (but stay away from Disney for the reasons above.) ?


Did I get it right? :)

Thanks,

~Jalyha

timallen
01-09-2014, 03:34 PM
These are murky waters.

I really have no idea what the copyright owners of RISK can or can't do. But I am pretty sure that-

1. you can't copyright a word that has been in the English language for 100s of years just because you want to (Microsoft tried this with the word "Windows" and lost).

and

2. you cant copyright game mechanics. That is, how the game components (the cards, the dice, the movement of the pieces) interact.

So the copyright for RISK would most probably cover the text of the rules and the graphical presentation of the map. If the work is too "dirivative" then you (me?) could be in trouble. But if I re-write the rules, changing and adding into them, and if my map is different enough (how much is enough), then I am OK.

But really, this is never going beyond me printing it out and trying it, so the chances of it ever coming to anyones attention is miniscule.

eelaeg
01-09-2014, 03:47 PM
2. you cant copyright game mechanics. That is, how the game components (the cards, the dice, the movement of the pieces) interact.
That is something that is patented, not copyrighted. Eg tapping cards as in Magic The Gathering, is patented ( Patent US5662332 - Trading card game method of play - Google Patents (http://www.google.com/patents/US5662332) ).


if my map is different enough
Yeah - I've never even played Risk, but I instantly recognized it as "the Risk map" by that ridiculous "Ukraine" that has a fair share of Lapland in it! Makes me cringe so hard every time I see it.

Jalyha
01-09-2014, 03:48 PM
Hi there :)

So... "Monopoly" can copyright their game, but not the use of the word "Monopoly"? I didn't know Microsoft tried that. That's fun info. :p

Actually, it makes more sense that way. There's tons of books with REALLY similar titles, by different authors, (and often, very similar storylines/characters) so it makes sense that other forms of media would be the same way.

:)

And I didn't mean to single out your entry, lol, it was simply the only entry (and what got me started thinking) and I didn't know how else to explain what I was wondering. I'm sorry if that upset you in anyway, and thanks for helping with your explanation. :D

Now if I could convince someone to do my rise of nations idea... (Since I would have no idea how to begin, lol)

Anyway, thanks again, everyone!

~Jalyha

Carbus
01-09-2014, 04:24 PM
Hi there :)

So... "Monopoly" can copyright their game, but not the use of the word "Monopoly"? I didn't know Microsoft tried that. That's fun info. :p

Actually, it makes more sense that way. There's tons of books with REALLY similar titles, by different authors, (and often, very similar storylines/characters) so it makes sense that other forms of media would be the same way.

:)

And I didn't mean to single out your entry, lol, it was simply the only entry (and what got me started thinking) and I didn't know how else to explain what I was wondering. I'm sorry if that upset you in anyway, and thanks for helping with your explanation. :D

Now if I could convince someone to do my rise of nations idea... (Since I would have no idea how to begin, lol)

Anyway, thanks again, everyone!

~Jalyha

Why don`t you start by looking The Settlers of Catan? Might give you a headstart.
Think about it, Rise of Nations is a game about domination right? By Culture, Military or Diplomacy. So start by that, you objective is to destroy other nations.
You choose between lets say 10 nations, each one with bonus (China high population / EUA big military / Japan Robotics, etc that`s up to you).
By combat you don`t have to reinvent the wheel, start with something simple like Risk, you use dices, if your dices are bigger, you win the battle, fight, war etc.

Just let your imagination do the rest, you have many elements from videogames that can be used in boargames, and vice-versa. Hope I could help in some way.
See this site for some references:
BoardGameGeek | Forum | BoardGameGeek (http://boardgamegeek.com/forums/region/1/boardgamegeek)

Board Game Design:
From Zero to Pitch: A Walkthrough for Game Designers ? Game Development ? Tuts+ Tutorials (http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/tutorials/from-zero-to-pitch-a-walkthrough-for-game-designers--gamedev-6121)

Salama
01-16-2014, 05:20 AM
Man but time flies by. I'd really like to participate in this, and I have already started with my board, but I'm not sure if I have time to finish it... Wouldn't want my first challenge to fail =).

Niall Mackay
01-16-2014, 04:24 PM
Zefix...
I've been thinking about making a map of the Great Northern War for the 1775/1812 games for some time now and this would be perfect to try and get at least started, but I've got a bachelor thesis to work on and don't want another mean of procrastination... I hope this challenge will come around again next year or so. ;)

timallen
01-16-2014, 06:28 PM
Oooh, that sounds like a great idea Niall. I really like the 1812 game by Academy Games...I assume that is the game you are talking about? I have yet to try the 1775 version, but it looks good too.

Niall Mackay
01-17-2014, 02:51 PM
Yes, that's the one I mean. You've gotta try out 1775, it's even better than 1812! :)

timallen
01-28-2014, 12:17 PM
Question- If the image "scraper" only picks up the last "WIP", how can I show multiple images? For instance, in the current challenge I have a map, three images of the sheets of cards, I am working on 5 images of the player mats, I have the rules currently roughed out in a Word Doc, and I will also have an image for the counters (not started those yet). Wouldn't it just grab the last image I post, regardless of what it is?

- Max -
01-28-2014, 12:52 PM
I guess you have to merge your images into only one.

madcowchef
01-31-2014, 03:08 PM
I want this one to run again when I have time to participate!

Seeria
02-05-2014, 09:08 PM
Thank you both. :)

I was fairly sure there wasn't a hard and fast "rule" against it, but was worried about "Noob Go Home"-type posts, if a newbie had the gall to enter. :p (It's happened on other forums.)

~Jalyha

I'm not overly active here, only show up a dozen times a year but I sure wouldn't ever show up if this place treated map artist like that!

ravells
02-13-2014, 09:10 AM
We (and by 'we' I don't just mean the moderators, I mean the whole community) don't tolerate "Noob Go Home"-type posts and we never would. If anyone did put up a post like that they would be warned and if they carried on like that, they would be shown the door.

We have nearly 50,000 members and have been running for about 10 years. In that time we have banned 1 member for disruptive behaviour (and that only after repeated warnings - turned out said member was a known troll on a number of forums) which has got to be some sort of forum record (which I have probably now jinxed).

We pride ourselves on giving friendly and constructive criticism and the forum was built with specifically that ethos in mind. We find that the friendly and helpful personality of the site rubs off on the people who join it and we have a great virtuous circle going...and (never forgetting) mappers are *really* nice people :)

best

Ravs

Jalyha
02-13-2014, 01:17 PM
-Aye... I asked that before I realized what saints you all are -- it's not uncommon to see those comments on other forums :P Now, I can't imagine it here. <3