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rgcalsaverini
01-25-2014, 01:33 PM
Sooo, I just joined the guild a month ago, and since I've never really done any maps before, I decided to do one of every kind following the WIP categories, ideally in different styles, and learn from the reviews and critiques :)

Therefore, this is my first structure map!

This one will be the green lake castle, its occupied by Lord Khoven, the equivalent of a baron that owns all the lands south of the Green Lake. Since he doesn't travel much, this is his permanent residence. He is also a literate and passionate about knowledge, that's why he employs a copyist, vellum maker and owns a library, all at great cost.

I will first finish the outside view, then make the inside view of all the buildings with (hopefully) furniture and details.

I got inspiration specially from Larb's awesome maps (Larb is my favorite superhero, I wanna be just like him when I grow up).

This is the (rough and incomplete) outside view:
60675

The buildings are:
Castle guard / City militia barracks (blue roof on the left): Guards accommodation, guards mess hall, herald's office, kitchen.

Guard tower (Round stone tower): Guards accommodation, notary's office, small armory, dungeon, holding cells, knights accommodation.

Gatehouse (rectangular stone structure near guard tower)

Smithy house and workshop (straw roof house)

Stables (wooden roof house near the smithy)

Sir Grash the Brave's tower (square tower with blue roof): House of Sir Grash, commander of Lord Khoven's army, knights accommodation, oubliette.

Servants house (Wooden roof beside Sir Grash's tower):

The Castle per se (the big square stone tower plus the blue roof house):
Underground 1: Undercroft, cellar, armory
Ground floor: Kitchen, stores, great hall, butlery, pantry
1st floor: Stewards chamber, stewards office, library, copyst
2nd: Guest chambers, Garderobe
3rd: Lord protector´s office, lord protector´s chambers, wardrobe, bathroom
4th: (Small house) Dovecote

Does everything looks okay? I have one question regarding the servants house. Did it existed? As far as I know, the servants slept on the kitchen/great hall floor.

Please speak your mind :)

Jalyha
01-25-2014, 02:31 PM
Please speak your mind :)


Sure about that? :o




Sooo, I just joined the guild a week or two ago

Surely it's been longer than that? :o


This is the (rough and incomplete) outside view:
60675

The buildings are:
Castle guard / City militia barracks (blue roof on the left): Guards accommodation, guards mess hall, herald's office, kitchen.

Guard tower (Round stone tower): Guards accommodation, notary's office, small armory, dungeon, holding cells, knights accommodation.

Gatehouse (rectangular stone structure near guard tower)

Smithy house and workshop (straw roof house)

Stables (wooden roof house near the smithy)

Sir Grash the Brave's tower (square tower with blue roof): House of Sir Grash, commander of Lord Khoven's army, knights accommodation, oubliette.

Servants house (Wooden roof beside Sir Grash's tower):

The Castle per se (the big square stone tower plus the blue roof house):
Underground 1: Undercroft, cellar, armory
Ground floor: Kitchen, stores, great hall, butlery, pantry
1st floor: Stewards chamber, stewards office, library, copyst
2nd: Guest chambers, Garderobe
3rd: Lord protector´s office, lord protector´s chambers, wardrobe, bathroom
4th: (Small house) Dovecote

I feel like there's a vital building missing... something a castle/fort like this would *always* have... but I can't think what it is right now... :(




Does everything looks okay? I have one question regarding the servants house. Did it existed? As far as I know, the servants slept on the kitchen/great hall floor.


Well.... that depends. People tend to think of castles as the nobility and the servants, but there were MANY different classes of servants. (And it largely depends on the society AND the time period as well, but...)

Ladies maids, and Ladies-in-waiting, Lords-in-waiting, Equerries, Gentlemen of the Bedchamber, etc .. these are all noblemen/women as well, usually younger sons and daughters of a lord/lady of similar rank to the one they serve. If it's *royalty* they are serving, they might be heirs to lands and castles of their own!


Then you have another class of servants, such as tutors, governesses, and "companions". These could be noble or gently bred men and women who have no inheritance, or who have fallen on hard times, or second sons and daughters of the very wealthy, or *very* highly educated orphans/working class individuals.

A governess's job was to teach and care for the children, a tutor to instruct them, and a companion was, literally, a companion. Someone to sit and talk with you, listen to your problems, be a chaperone if they were beyond repute, sometimes to serve in small tasks, etc.


All of these people usually had their own apartments (a suite of rooms in the main house) although, a tutor might live outside the house/castle... and a governess might only have a single room, or even sleep in the nursery.

Then you have your heads-of-whatever... head of the stables (or stablemaster) head cook, head-maid, head-whatever. They were like... the supervisors. They might have their own rooms, their own homes, or sleep in a separate "servants wing" (inside the house) or "servant's quarters" (outside the main house)

Then you have all kinds of maids and cooks and gardeners and pretty much servants everywhere. These servants might also have (smaller) rooms in the servant's quarters/wing, or live off-site, usually in shared rooms. They would often sleep (ACTUALLY sleep) together - two and three in a bed. Sometimes the higher classes did so as well.

Then you had the lowest class of servants - pot boys and chambermaids and all the really icky jobs. These people wouldn't take these jobs if they had other options!! Usually they were orphans, or cast-aways, with no one else to turn to. They might sleep on the floors in the area of their work - stables or kitchens... or some (like chambermaids) would sleep in tiny little "rooms" in the attic or basement... often, barely large enough to hold a bed, and with ceilings too low to stand straight.

People in the lowest classes would sleep on the floors for two reasons: 1) They had nowhere else to go, and 2) For warmth! A large castle might have hundreds of servants piled up on the floor near the fires/ovens

Now... That's a very broad generalization for the time period between medieval and renaissance, and it's different in every land, so...

But, generally, the further back in time you go, the worse the servant's accomodations were, and the later, the better.


Now, regarding your map... some of the lettering is very small and I can't read it. I can't tell if it's meant to be labels or notes to yourself.

A smithy utilizes fire. REALLY HOT fire. Typically, that area would either be a stone walled enclosure outside the main building, or you'd have a stone roof. Straw+Fire=bad. :P

I don't know why, might be a shadow thing, but the stairs from your (round) tower look like they are coming out of the top of the tower, rather than the base!

Where's your gate? :o It looks like (to me, at the moment) the only way for your people to exit the grounds is through the castle, or by boat. You'd need some way to get horses in an out, at the very least, and preferably a larger gate for bringing in wagons and such.

A canal or pit or whatever to get rid of stable waste seems a very modern concept. Typically, there would be a servant whose job it was to muck out the stables, and they would put all of that... waste.. into a cart, or wagon, and the gardeners would use it for crops, or at the very least vegetables, as fertilizers.

Some even *sold* manure for fertilizer!

What's the round black thing near the round tower? Most of the shadows are great, especially at this stage, but something is off about the shadow near the smithy... I can't tell what it is yet :/

What's a horta? D:

rgcalsaverini
01-25-2014, 03:16 PM
Yeah, when I'm on school break I really loose track of time, its more like a month actually, lol.

Thanks, very rich information, I will add a floor or two in the main tower to accommodate all those people :)

Yeah, sorry those labels are just notes to myself, so I don't forget what I want to draw there later. Just in case you where curious, portuguese/english translation:

cavalo - horse
feno - hay
manjedoura - *no idea how to translate this*
canal - canal
horta - vegetable and herbs garden for cooking
jardim - decorative garden
galinhas andando - chickens walking

Well noted about the stair, will fix that once I get to the tower.

About the gate, the structure to the right of the tower is a gate house and has a big gate, like this one (http://www.cartographersguild.com/tutorials-how/16819-%5Baward-winner%5D-assorted-tips-tricks-2.html#post173684)

The black round thing is a person to give me scale, it will be gone after I finish drawing.

Thanks for the thorough review! =)

Jalyha
01-25-2014, 09:53 PM
I was curious... and I was thinking it was a gardener for some reason, lol. I was close!!

I really like this drawing, I hope to see more soon!

rgcalsaverini
01-26-2014, 07:29 PM
Baby steps... :)
60723

Jalyha
01-26-2014, 07:41 PM
wow nice horses~

arsheesh
01-26-2014, 08:42 PM
Looking great so far rgcalsaverini!

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

Tracker
01-27-2014, 02:32 PM
Hello:
I think I missed the great hall in the map. The map looks good.

Tracker

Jalyha
01-27-2014, 03:54 PM
Hello:
I think I missed the great hall in the map. The map looks good.

Tracker


I thought the great hall was inside the building? :P

Tracker
01-28-2014, 07:31 PM
I might have missed counted buildings. Usually the great hall building will house the kitchen and other rooms.

Tracker

Jalyha
01-28-2014, 07:50 PM
I might have missed counted buildings. Usually the great hall building will house the kitchen and other rooms.

Tracker


The Castle per se (the big square stone tower plus the blue roof house):
Underground 1: Undercroft, cellar, armory
Ground floor: Kitchen, stores, great hall, butlery, pantry
1st floor: Stewards chamber, stewards office, library, copyst
2nd: Guest chambers, Garderobe
3rd: Lord protector´s office, lord protector´s chambers, wardrobe, bathroom
4th: (Small house) Dovecote




It's okay, I miss stuff all the time! :)

rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 10:15 PM
The great hall is within the castle, wall-to-wall with the kitchen (just how you like it) inside that blue roof =)

Thanks arsheesh and tracker. This one will have to wait quite some time to be finished... Lol

Jalyha
01-29-2014, 01:12 AM
Why so long? :o

rgcalsaverini
01-29-2014, 01:33 AM
I'll be away from my computer for quite a while. But that's a good thing :) lol