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rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 03:36 PM
People suggested it on this thread (http://www.cartographersguild.com/general-discussion/25994-how-would-monsters-map.html#post235120). I think it would be really cool to make a map like a primitive monster society would (like orcs, trolls, goblins...), taking in consideration their limitations, technology and access to materials.

- Max -
01-28-2014, 03:40 PM
That's a very interesting idea!

Gamerprinter
01-28-2014, 03:49 PM
To me the issue would be alien ways of thinking, how can a human (us in reality) emulate a non-humans concept of reality, space, distance. There's an old wood cut illustration I've seen that elucidates this concept of different realities well. There is an illustration by a 19th century artist of a famous Maori chief that shows a realistic man with tattoos on his face wearing a western styled suit. A self portrait by that same Maori chief showed only the tattoos, and not anything else, not even the facial features surrounding the tattoo. His perception of the world and himself, is completely different from our point of view. Not that a non-human couldn't design a map for his needs, but could a non-human actually understand the map, especially when the cartographer has a completely alien perception of the world and how to depict it. If you are just using orc-ish composition, but using our own perception of reality - would it even be close to an orc emulation of the world?

Think about the movie, Contact, with Jodie Foster. When they received the aliens instructions on building the time/space traveling device, nobody could read it. The billionaire friend of Jodie points out that the map is read as a cylinder (or as a sphere, I can't remember for sure) and not a 2D flat surface. Until pointed out how the map was to be read, nobody could read it. That I see is the problem for realistically attempting to design a map using non-human thinking.

Jalyha
01-28-2014, 04:11 PM
I think that just adds to the variety of ideas people would come up with... and why it would be a great challenge!

Eventually, they WERE able to figure out how to read the instructions... at least the billionaire friend was.

So maybe a map could be a monster map with a human translation. Or maybe, since monsters are (generally) built the same as we are, and populate the same worlds, they would tend to do many things in ways similar *enough* for all the skilled cartographers here to decipher. (They wouldn't want *all* humans to understand their maps, would they?)

I've thought of about 80 possible interpretations of this concept, while considering the perception of reality problem, in the last couple of minutes!

I hope it is a challenge (and soon) cause I'm seriously champing at the bit wanting to attempt it (and probably fail miserably, but yeah...)

rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 04:24 PM
Given that those monsters would be subject to the same world as we are and representing the same things, I think that there would be some similarities. Like creatures, most things evolve towards efficiency naturally. A map that used as media a circular surface (such a coconut) cannot be transported and stored with ease, and would be abandoned soon in favor of a flat, foldable map. Most arrangements would be inefficient both to convey information, carry and manufacture, so I think that a more-or-less familiar result would be achieved.
Of course, their different manipulation capabilities, access to material, cultural background, goals and reliance on senses would make sure that the map was diverse enough.

I think that this could be fun, and every entrant should start by stating the major cultural/physiological differences of their monsters. For example, if someone chooses wood goblins, their maps might not depict woods as trees and such, that is obvious to them, they would make special markings for those weird "treeless spots" that connect one "normal land" to another, or maybe focus on internal features of the forests that we would skip (the mushroom growing areas and whatnot). Or maybe a race that relies heavily on hearing could depict things by their sound, in a sort of a synesthetic way, I dont know :)

Could it also be a lite challenge, so the little kids can play? :)

Jalyha
01-28-2014, 04:27 PM
Little kids can play in the grown up challenges... it's just that the competition is pretty stiff! :P



PS: omg I wanna make a wood nymph map O.O


Wait... are wood nymphs monsters? D:

- Max -
01-28-2014, 05:17 PM
Little kids can play in the grown up challenges...
I wouldn't have said better :)

rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 05:23 PM
Hum, I was under the impression that you had to do something before being able to enter the regular monthly challenge.
Can you do both simultaneously?

- Max -
01-28-2014, 05:31 PM
Yes you can. But once you win a golden compass in regular challenge (or having a map featured as cartographer's choice) you can't enter lite challenge no more.

Gamerprinter
01-28-2014, 05:32 PM
The only rule is that if you've won a Lite Challenge, you cannot do a Lite Challenge ever again - anyone can participate in a full challenge, and you can still participate if you've won a full challenge, but also cannot participate in a Lite Challenge. Consider that when I joined the guild, there was no such thing as a Lite challenge, there was only the monthly challenge. I won my second map challenge, so I can only participate in full challenges, if I want. I've won 4 challenges, but have participated in over 20 challenges.

rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 05:36 PM
Yes you can. But once you win a golden compass

Oh, don't you fear that... The day I win a golden compass I will also be proclaimed emperor of All the Land Under the SKy. (Meaning everywhere but São Paulo, cant see the sky there anymore...)

Jalyha
01-28-2014, 05:45 PM
Oh, don't you fear that... The day I win a golden compass I will also be proclaimed emperor of All the Land Under the SKy. (Meaning everywhere but São Paulo, cant see the sky there anymore...)

Same here. :o

Race ya? :P

- Max -
01-28-2014, 05:51 PM
The only rule is that if you've won a Lite Challenge, you cannot do a Lite Challenge ever again

I think you can win lite challenges 3 times before not being allowed to enter it anymore.

Bogie
01-28-2014, 05:59 PM
My understanding of the rules was that anyone can participate in either challenge, but as Max said, anyone who has won a Gold Compass or who has been featured in the Cartographer's Choice cannot participate in the lite challenge. The rule also states that after you have won 3 Silver Compasses (lite challenges), then you can only enter the full Challenges. That is what happened to Jaxillon, he won 3 lite challenges in a short period of time and then had to move on up to the big time!

HEHE Max beat me to this!

Jalyha
01-28-2014, 06:05 PM
My understanding of the rules was that anyone can participate in either challenge, but as Max said, anyone who has won a Gold Compass or who has been featured in the Cartographer's Choice cannot participate in the lite challenge. The rule also states that after you have won 3 Silver Compasses (lite challenges), then you can only enter the full Challenges. That is what happened to Jaxillon, he won 3 lite challenges in a short period of time and then had to move on up to the big time!

HEHE Max beat me to this!

That means you can only win one more, Bogie :o

Gamerprinter
01-28-2014, 06:13 PM
As I stated before the inclusion of a Lite Challenge did not exist, until maybe after 3 years I was a member, and because I'd already won 2 or 3 Gold Compass challenges by then, I never even looked at the details of the Lite Challenge, since it did not apply to me. So, I had no idea about the 3 Lite Challenge wins - I never looked to see.

rgcalsaverini
01-28-2014, 06:24 PM
Same here. :o

Race ya? :P


It's on! :)

- Max -
01-29-2014, 03:18 AM
I deleted the doublon thread and added the poll in this one :)

Jalyha
01-29-2014, 10:53 AM
Thanks MAX ... I was getting confused! :P

And, back to my (other?) question... what counts as a monster? :o

Gamerprinter
01-29-2014, 12:10 PM
A wood nymph is a monster. Any supernatural being, except perhaps some humanoid races (at least in RPG games) would be considered monsters. Since a wood nymph is not technically a race, though there are certainly more than one, it is a monster. Monster doesn't necessarily mean something nasty that is going to eat you.

Jalyha
01-29-2014, 12:29 PM
YAY. Now I just have to wait and see if there's a contest before I can try to map it :P

Robin Ryuu
01-30-2014, 10:12 AM
This is quite an interesting idea. I've already thought of a few ideas, although I'm not sure they can be considered "primitive". My skills aren't all that great, but I might try this one if it becomes a challenge....... if I have time.

Lingon
02-01-2014, 01:31 PM
It's pretty subjective what a monster is, and I think it'd be most fun if it was left open for interpretation. Me, I wouldn't call all supernatural beings monsters, probably not nymphs for example. And natural things can be monsters too. Dinosaurs, deep-sea creepy fish, Kim Jong-Un… I still want to see that nymph map though, because I think one of the mot fun things about the challenges is to see how different people interpret the theme :)

Jalyha
02-01-2014, 01:38 PM
I call dibs on the wood nymphs :o

or.. hmmmmmmmmm maybe a kraken map would be fun :o

lostatsea
02-26-2014, 03:27 PM
This sounds interesting and a little different from the usual suggestions. I 'm in if it comes to the non-lite challenge venue !!