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vorropohaiah
02-12-2014, 08:45 AM
Hi all! One of the reasons I haven't been so active on the forum is my worldbuilding, part of which is the so-called 'Encyclopedia Elyden' which I tend to bring up in all of my threads! It exists in 2 worlds -

1) the real version that exists in my computer started out as nothing more than notes to help me in my own writing and world building, to help me locate places, items and other things I'd otherwise forget, though as my worldbuilding increased in scope it grew steadily larger, changing from simple bullet points to a target and something to aim for in its own right. Almost 10-years down the line I have over 600,000 words of text in the thing (over half of which are in the itemised encyclopedia entries - think an early edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica)

2) it exists as an in-world book that summarises the worldly knowledge of a particular nation and one thing I'm aiming for in my version is to one day create a hand-made version of this book for myself, though I don't see that happening until many many years down the line, if at all, as I'm constantly adding to it.

The in-world book is divided into 3 volumes: the encyclopedia, the world histories and mytholgies and religions, and the atlas.

We're mostly concerned with the third volume here. After much fretting about I've finally started work on this. After my uncompleted political map of Korachan I've settled on a style I'm happy with and will now set about mapping every known nation, realm and major land formation in the world. A monumental task, that, if completed, will leave me with a many-hundred-page-long document.

Each page is A3 in size and will incorporate a map on one side and various geographical, political, religious, etc information pertaining to the region on the reverse. The images are, so far, being created as individual pieces, though can easily be bound together if the thing ever gets done.

This is my work so far - mostly foundations for more detailed stuff to come later on. I've largely busied myself making a template I can quickly adapt for new maps, though sadly the creation of the neatlines and graticules are beyond my ability to automate and really take a lot of time to get done, even after running my equirectangluar world map through G. Projector. Hopefully this is the start of something far larger that won't peter out after a few months :)

Also, anyone familiar with my Holy Empire of Korachan map might be able to place these maps within that one. Keep in mind that these were made with far more precision than the older map and take precedence in the event of any changes

C&C welcome!

note: some of the titlebars and cartouches are still temporary, leftovers from the base template and some text does not yet make sense. also, the grid along the neatline on the Shibboleth map should be changed - from 2 to 5. per graticule grid

* more maps on post #14, #24, #29, #61, #67 and #70
61319 61321 61320 61322

- Max -
02-12-2014, 09:26 AM
Looks nice :) The rivers on Shibboleth map looks a bit off though (pixelated).

vorropohaiah
02-12-2014, 09:32 AM
oh they're fine at normal resolution - it's just because we're so zoomed in that they appear that way ( i hope!)

- Max -
02-12-2014, 09:48 AM
Yep that makes sense, should be ok at print size, as far as I've seen!

Korba
02-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Love the look of the coast, parchment, lines and text boxes (in particular) :)

Once comment from me (also on the Shibboleth map) is that in the far south you have a river system that looks like it forms a ring, might be a canal etc. but thought I would mention.

Korba

gilgamec
02-12-2014, 11:21 AM
I like the look of these maps! The line and style is really cool, especially the water fill (which is too much zoomed in, but probably looks much better at 300dpi). A couple of things:
- Is there a reason for the strange projections? Are they supposed to match up with a smaller-scale map which has Shibboleth and Jurras on the west side and Tzallrach and Cuth to the east? Otherwise, it might be a better idea to choose a different projection so north/south is up/down.
- Again, if these are supposed to be excerpts it might be understandable, but on a standalone map, even one with a tilted graticule, I think the labels would look much better horizontally aligned instead of aligned parallel to the parallels.
- Is it supposed to be "Latitude East of ..."? Because normally latitude doesn't work that way.

Eilathen
02-12-2014, 12:49 PM
Very cool, Vorro. Glad to see you are still around and working on this :) I hope we will see this finished some day! I know i'd like to read it.

vorropohaiah
02-14-2014, 10:00 AM
I like the look of these maps! The line and style is really cool, especially the water fill (which is too much zoomed in, but probably looks much better at 300dpi). A couple of things:
- Is there a reason for the strange projections? Are they supposed to match up with a smaller-scale map which has Shibboleth and Jurras on the west side and Tzallrach and Cuth to the east? Otherwise, it might be a better idea to choose a different projection so north/south is up/down.
- Again, if these are supposed to be excerpts it might be understandable, but on a standalone map, even one with a tilted graticule, I think the labels would look much better horizontally aligned instead of aligned parallel to the parallels.
- Is it supposed to be "Latitude East of ..."? Because normally latitude doesn't work that way.

not quite sure I get what you mean. Like most real-world cartographers I try to make the best use of space possible so some maps - like Cuth, which is more W - E oriented than N - S, makes more sense in landscape than portrait.

The 'latitude west/east of' is intended to give an idea of orientation - since I'm using an equidistant conic projection its impossible to apply a compass rose. Hopefully the form of the graticules should indicate where N is, though I might be making a mistaken assumption. also, for the sake of clarity Deochan (which appears in the 'latitude east of Deachan' is my world's equivalent of Greenwich

gilgamec
02-14-2014, 01:48 PM
not quite sure I get what you mean. Like most real-world cartographers I try to make the best use of space possible so some maps - like Cuth, which is more W - E oriented than N - S, makes more sense in landscape than portrait.I'm referring to the fact that none of your graticules are aligned with the page, either vertically or horizontally; maps I've seen generally have the projection centered inside the area being mapped, which causes the lines of longitude to be close to vertical. This means that your maps, where all of the lines of longitude (well, the vertical lines at least) are leaning the same way, look like they're all taken from one side or another of a larger map.

For example, a common projection used to map the USA is a conic:
61406
It's centered on 100 degrees, so the longitude lines west of this tilt right, and the lines east of it tilt left. Your maps look like if I'd used this projection to do a map of New England:
61407
i.e. all of the lines tilt left. But if I were actually doing a map of New England, I'd use a projection centered on New England, like this one, centered at 70 degrees:
61408
I hope this explains my comment.


The 'latitude west/east of' is intended to give an idea of orientation - since I'm using an equidistant conic projection its impossible to apply a compass rose. Hopefully the form of the graticules should indicate where N is, though I might be making a mistaken assumption. also, for the sake of clarity Deochan (which appears in the 'latitude east of Deachan' is my world's equivalent of GreenwichOn Earth, at least, lines of latitude run east-west, while lines of longitude run north-south, so you see "90 degrees longitude east of Greenwich" and the like.

Jalyha
02-14-2014, 03:05 PM
I think the projection is fine. Not all maps are centered north-south, and every map doesn't have to conform to the "norm".

Also, this is not earth. :)

Pretty sure the longitude/latitude thing is right, though.. :?

Lingon
02-14-2014, 03:08 PM
Centering the map so one longitude is vertical is certainly the usual way, but I think the tilt is pretty cool. Not a lot of people do it, so it gives another element of Vorro to the maps :)

Diamond
02-15-2014, 01:18 AM
Vorro, you magnificent SOB! These are great so far. I was wondering where you'd got off to; good to have you posting again!

If I'm not mistaken, one reason for unusual graticule orientation may be to most effectively center/orient the region being mapped on the piece of paper. In the Tzallrach one in particular, if vorro was to horizontally/vertically square up the graticules with the paper's edge, he'd have large zones in the southeast and northwest that really aren't the main focus of the map and would contribute nothing but dead space to the map. With this orientation, only the essential zone/area being mapped is shown and one can still get a sense of direction from the graticules.

vorropohaiah
02-15-2014, 01:34 AM
I'm referring to the fact that none of your graticules are aligned with the page, either vertically or horizontally; maps I've seen generally have the projection centered inside the area being mapped, which causes the lines of longitude to be close to vertical. This means that your maps, where all of the lines of longitude (well, the vertical lines at least) are leaning the same way, look like they're all taken from one side or another of a larger map.


If I'm not mistaken, one reason for unusual graticule orientation may be to most effectively center/orient the region being mapped on the piece of paper. In the Tzallrach one in particular, if vorro was to horizontally/vertically square up the graticules with the paper's edge, he'd have large zones in the southeast and northwest that really aren't the main focus of the map and would contribute nothing but dead space to the map. With this orientation, only the essential zone/area being mapped is shown and one can still get a sense of direction from the graticules.

Ah see what you mean now, though Diamond explains it better than I was managing! It's certainly not the norm though some maps of the period I'm emulating, especially atlas pages, tend to do this. Thanks for bringing it up though as thats the sort of critique im looking for - anything i might have missed myself!


On Earth, at least, lines of latitude run east-west, while lines of longitude run north-south, so you see "90 degrees longitude east of Greenwich" and the like.
Gah, you're right! That was an honest mistake on my part, mixing up the one with the other - thanks for pointing that out!


I think the projection is fine. Not all maps are centered north-south, and every map doesn't have to conform to the "norm".


Centering the map so one longitude is vertical is certainly the usual way, but I think the tilt is pretty cool. Not a lot of people do it, so it gives another element of Vorro to the maps :)

thanks! I was waiting to see what other members thought of this, to see if there was a general consensus for orienting the grats to the page, though I think I'll keep them as is. These are meant to be purely functional and in that regard I think the orienting of individual maps to better fit into the page makes more sense.

vorropohaiah
02-16-2014, 12:08 PM
I've been working away at more of these, trying to get the neatlines and graticules out of the way on as many maps as possible (very tedious, and possibly the most time-consuming part of each map, other than the labelling, probably). Got nine done in all so far. I've tinkered a bit with the degrees - making every tenth number bigger than the others. And I also tried my hand a little characterful thing I often see in atlases - making certain areas protrude form the neatline as way of better using page space. i think they look quite nice, though wondered what you all thought?

I've also started coming across areas of maps whose peripheries copy maps that I've already made, though in different orientations and scales, it's been fun challenging myself to make sure I'm not changing any areas and that everything aligns up properly - for instance the bottom right of the new Venthir map includes the bottom left of the Tzallrach (Char Mathi) map; or the entire right-hand side of the Korachan map is repeated in the Pelasgos map. To make sure I don't map the same coastlines twice with different results I'm using the same land layer masks on different maps when they share land area - the best way to make sure coastlines remain correctly proportioned to one-another and properly aligned. I'll be coming across this more and more as I go along.

Something else I'm also thinking of doing is dividing larger nations or those with lots of different territories, like Almagest and Korachan, respectively, into many smaller maps with more detailed information - like perhaps heraldry or other pertinent information.

Included in the new maps is a map of the Haréshk (http://www.cartographersguild.com/finished-maps/22291-finished-city-kingdoms-har%E9shk.html), which some of you might remember is a region of my world I've already mapped. That was a native map, this will be a foreigners' map of the same region. This map also contains a small inset map of an island that's part of the Haréshki kingdoms though which did not fit on the page - I'm pleased with it but I'm not sure it's entirely clear. any feedback on this? I've also uploaded a resized and re-oriented version of the Korachan map that's been changed to be more in-line with the new pages.

*more maps on post #1

61470 61471 61472 61473 61474

*the cartouche on the Pelasgos map is not final as it covers up most of the pertinent land mass. Having said that the cartouches are just place-holders for now and might be removed completely or changed


Once comment from me (also on the Shibboleth map) is that in the far south you have a river system that looks like it forms a ring, might be a canal etc. but thought I would mention.

well im no member of the river police, but there are upland regions separating the different branches of the river. as an example of scale - one degree of latitude is 105.04 miles

Jalyha
02-16-2014, 01:01 PM
I like them all :)


I *personally* don't like the place where it goes past the neat lines, (probably my OCD), but I can see where it would be useful :)

Everything else looks good to me :D

Diamond
02-16-2014, 01:11 PM
Looking good as usual. I don't have an issue with extending parts past the neatline - I've done it myself in the past, and as you said, it IS an established practice, so it's not like you're breaking down the very barriers of reality!!!!! :D

As far as that island on the Hareshk map - the placement of it now makes it appear as though the land in the southeast corner of the map is an isthmus. What about moving the inset map up above the cartouche?

arsheesh
02-16-2014, 02:32 PM
Looking great vorropohaiah, can't wait to see the finished product.

Cheers,
-Arsheesh

vorropohaiah
02-17-2014, 09:53 AM
As far as that island on the Hareshk map - the placement of it now makes it appear as though the land in the southeast corner of the map is an isthmus. What about moving the inset map up above the cartouche?

I can see how moving it away from the corner might make it clrearer - but I'm not seeing the isthmus you mention. can you elaborate?

Veldehar
02-17-2014, 11:20 AM
Now this is a WIP to follow! Looking forward to this run of maps for sure. great work.

Diamond
02-17-2014, 06:33 PM
Here you go...

Jalyha
02-17-2014, 06:57 PM
Ohhh


That confused me too :)

vorropohaiah
02-18-2014, 01:32 AM
Here you go...

Ok, still doesn't look much like an isthmus to me but I get what you mean. Perhaps if I move the inset box away from the page edge so the underlying map is visible all round, that might make more sense?

Jalyha
02-18-2014, 01:35 AM
I think it would work better higher up, but that might work too o.o

vorropohaiah
02-18-2014, 02:33 AM
i'll try both and post them up when i have chance to.

in the meantime, here's another region, Azazem/ This is another map that's adjacent to a region I've already mapped (Korachan to the west) so I had to refer to the Korachan map to make sure the coastline overlapped perfectly. Though looking at it the coastline, particularly in the middle and western part of the map seems a bit meh - might need to go over it to add some more oomph, whatever oomph is :)

61528

Ilanthar
02-18-2014, 08:42 AM
Vorropohaiah, I think your link is broken (unfortunately).

vorropohaiah
02-18-2014, 09:11 AM
fixed. Dont know what happened there

Lingon
02-18-2014, 11:23 AM
I think the coastline is good. Every coast can't be oomphy, some meh is needed too :P Look at North Africa, that's some really meh coast… but then you have the extreme oomph of Greece and Turkey just north of it, which gets emphasized by the meh. Contrast is good :)

By the way… your project is extremely cool and I love reading about the process and your thoughts about it.

vorropohaiah
02-19-2014, 08:09 AM
guess its like Scandinavia and the Bay of Biscay. Thanks for the feedback

vorropohaiah
02-22-2014, 06:07 AM
some more maps for the Atlas. Also, i was compliling a list of some other kinds of maps i could include in the atlas and came up with this:

religion maps (range of certain faiths and the territories and numbers where they are most popular)
continent maps
polar maps
trade maps
language maps
wind / climate maps
weather maps
landmass maps
empire maps/expansions over time.
war maps
exploratory maps


that should keep me busy for a while, especially considering I've barely scratched the surface of the normal maps. Which reminds me, i need to redo the Korachan and shibboleth maps as the projections are different to those of the other maps and don't match up the way they should do. Also, as i do more maps for the inner sea region, the coastlines are starting to converge - with lots of repetition, particularly the islands in the Khamid and Tzallrach maps, for instance.

61670 61671 61672 61673

Raptori
02-22-2014, 03:14 PM
I love these maps. Are you planning to have a similar level of detail to the Korachan one (posted on page 2) on all the maps eventually? Looks like an insane amount of work, but it's definitely worth it!

Lingon
02-22-2014, 03:31 PM
I thought of two things just now:
1. I haven't said how much I like this style, I think. The light blue and the red, the subtle paper texture, the borders and cartouches, everything fits together in a very beautiful and unexpected way. It feels sci-fi, fantasy and historical at the same time, without any clichés. Which, I realized as I typed it, is quite the accomplishment.
2. Since they are all going to be in an atlas and show the same time period, maybe the cartouches don't have to say "A map of" and "In the age of the Reaffirmation Wars"? Unless there's a point to the repetition, it feels mostly like… repetition ;)

Llannagh
02-22-2014, 05:01 PM
Howly cow, you're productive! Unfortunately I haven't been able to read much further on your blog, but that last update inspired me just by skimming through it.

Lingon seems to be right though. If those maps do appear in an atlas, wouldn't the book/tome/book-thingy give information about the map's background? On the other hand, though, if it's going to be in a way as the David Rumsey Collection, those maps might as well be from different time periods. Hm...

Anyway, I like the style and look forward to the complete collection! ;)

vorropohaiah
02-23-2014, 01:33 AM
I love these maps. Are you planning to have a similar level of detail to the Korachan one (posted on page 2) on all the maps eventually? Looks like an insane amount of work, but it's definitely worth it!
They should do, though as you say it's a lot of detail and it probably won't be coming any time soon! Also, I'm still at odds as to how to represent some features like woodlands, mountains, quarries etc.


2. Since they are all going to be in an atlas and show the same time period, maybe the cartouches don't have to say "A map of" and "In the age of the Reaffirmation Wars"? Unless there's a point to the repetition, it feels mostly like… repetition ;)

Lingon seems to be right though. If those maps do appear in an atlas, wouldn't the book/tome/book-thingy give information about the map's background? On the other hand, though, if it's going to be in a way as the David Rumsey Collection, those maps might as well be from different time periods. Hm...

I see your point - so a generic title bar with the name and none of that reaffirmation war nonsense, and a cartouched farther down with key and scale details etc. That will also free up more room in the map itself

Lingon
02-23-2014, 12:21 PM
Yay, I'm helping! *Zoidberg voice*

Raptori
02-23-2014, 12:42 PM
They should do, though as you say it's a lot of detail and it probably won't be coming any time soon! Also, I'm still at odds as to how to represent some features like woodlands, mountains, quarries etc.

Haha yeah, looks like years worth of work to me!

I think it'd take more work to put all that info into one map and make it work than it would be to separate them out into different maps. Judging by that Korachan one they're spot on for displaying political information, and adding more detail might end up making them less effective. Mountains (and some other features like lakes) are definitely important enough in politics for them to be included, but they can be nice and subtle, like in this map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Europe_geopolitical_map_of_Europe.jpg). Most other physical features like different biomes would be better represented in their own maps, and important features like quarries I guess could be represented pretty easily by different icons?

However, if you can work out a way to do it all in one map then that'd be impressive! :D

Pixie
02-23-2014, 04:51 PM
Your whole world building is an inspiration, vorropohaiah. Congrats on all the work you've been doing.

If you want more ideas for maps, here are some:
land use
relief
population density

check this webpage where you can find some of them for a country (Haiti, random choice):
NationMaster - Maps of Haiti (11 in total) (http://maps.nationmaster.com/country/ha/1)

Your atlas style looks pretty modern, so I am wondering if your world is already deep into industrial era or beyond. If so, natural resources is a matter of key importance and it would be normal to see continental maps charting coal, oil and other mineral rich regions.

Again, huge and impressive work!

vorropohaiah
02-24-2014, 07:49 AM
Haha yeah, looks like years worth of work to me!

I think it'd take more work to put all that info into one map and make it work than it would be to separate them out into different maps. Judging by that Korachan one they're spot on for displaying political information, and adding more detail might end up making them less effective. Mountains (and some other features like lakes) are definitely important enough in politics for them to be included, but they can be nice and subtle, like in this map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Europe_geopolitical_map_of_Europe.jpg). Most other physical features like different biomes would be better represented in their own maps, and important features like quarries I guess could be represented pretty easily by different icons?
That's a cool map and mucha s i like those mountains and think theyll be so much easier toget done than the marching caterpillars i dont think theyll fit in - they seem a bit too modern. though it might be worth it to try a mock up, as i really am not looking forward to doing those marching caterpillars...


Your whole world building is an inspiration, vorropohaiah. Congrats on all the work you've been doing.
Your atlas style looks pretty modern, so I am wondering if your world is already deep into industrial era or beyond. If so, natural resources is a matter of key importance and it would be normal to see continental maps charting coal, oil and other mineral rich regions.

Again, huge and impressive work!

the world is at best post industrial age, so resources would be a great feature i idnt even think of!

Raptori
02-24-2014, 08:48 AM
That's a cool map and mucha s i like those mountains and think theyll be so much easier toget done than the marching caterpillars i dont think theyll fit in - they seem a bit too modern. though it might be worth it to try a mock up, as i really am not looking forward to doing those marching caterpillars...

Yeah I get what you mean, they do look a bit too modern when you compare them to the rest of the map.

Something that might match your style a bit better could be this:
61750
61751

I love that style, but it might take a similar amount of work to the marching caterpillars, so really that'd just be a stylistic thing. It'd save you from having to work out what to make the icons look like to match the maps though, so that's one plus at least!

Lingon
02-24-2014, 10:12 AM
Here's another idea for the mountains:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/1831_Depot_de_la_Marine_Nautical_Chart_or_Map_of_M artinique%2C_West_Indies_-_Geographicus_-_Martinique-depotdelamarine-1851.jpg

It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.

vorropohaiah
02-24-2014, 10:41 AM
Yeah I get what you mean, they do look a bit too modern when you compare them to the rest of the map.

Something that might match your style a bit better could be this:
61750
61751
I love that style, but it might take a similar amount of work to the marching caterpillars, so really that'd just be a stylistic thing. It'd save you from having to work out what to make the icons look like to match the maps though, so that's one plus at least!
I'm a big fan of that map actually and i was considering that style of mountqain ut its actually a lot more work than the marching caterpillars, which can be achieved relatively easily by stroking a line with a wedge shape (in theory). these dinotopia ones are much more attractive though far more time consuming to get done. A dilemma, for sure!


Here's another idea for the mountains:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/1831_Depot_de_la_Marine_Nautical_Chart_or_Map_of_M artinique%2C_West_Indies_-_Geographicus_-_Martinique-depotdelamarine-1851.jpg

It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.
gorgeous! but far beyond the scope what these maps want or need to convey, also im not sure i'd even be able to convincingly recreate such contours, in a timel fashion, at least! thanks for the suggestion, though

Raptori
02-24-2014, 11:35 AM
I'm a big fan of that map actually and i was considering that style of mountqain ut its actually a lot more work than the marching caterpillars, which can be achieved relatively easily by stroking a line with a wedge shape (in theory). these dinotopia ones are much more attractive though far more time consuming to get done. A dilemma, for sure!

Ahh fair enough, I've never tried either. I wonder if there's a way to get that effect in Photoshop using layer styles.. it might be possible to create parallel lines radiating down a gradient, but then you'd have to go back and add some more detailing to emphasise the slope. Might not be worth it even if it's possible, but I might give it a go at some point. I do think it'd be a perfect fit with the rest of the map style though!



Here's another idea for the mountains:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/1831_Depot_de_la_Marine_Nautical_Chart_or_Map_of_M artinique%2C_West_Indies_-_Geographicus_-_Martinique-depotdelamarine-1851.jpg

It probably shows much more mountain detail than you need in these maps, but I think a similar style could work if you only draw the relevant ranges.

That's lovely... how people had the patience I'll never know.

vorropohaiah
02-24-2014, 12:34 PM
yeah that map really is detailed - I shudder to think on how long it must have taken to make, and if not, the talent needed! beyond my attention span, that's for sure

Raptori
02-24-2014, 01:14 PM
I really want to use that mountain style at some point, but I'm lazy and want a short cut. I messed around in Illustrator for 10 minutes and came up with this (with a little texture added in Photoshop to make it look like it's been inked):

61754

Obviously it could do with some variation in the length and shape of the lines, but that's dead simple. Getting the end points of the ranges to look right might be a bit fiddly though. I'll have to play around some more and see whether I can get it to work. What do you think could make it closer to that style? If I can get it right I'd be happy to post a tutorial so you can use it in these maps :)

Llannagh
02-24-2014, 01:25 PM
I actually just spent yesterdy (the whole of it) trying to recreate the style from the dino-map. I almost lost my mind. My template was this (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239951~5512086:San-Francisco-entrance,-California-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_Lis t_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:nautical;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_ Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=7&trs=916) and this (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~246050~5514636:Island-of-Upolu,-Samoan-Group-by-th?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_L ist_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:nautical;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_ Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=6&trs=916).

No matter what I did, it always looked crappy and was way too much work. What I came up with was that, dunno if that would work for you:

61756

The ridgeline in the middle is just for guidance, in this case I just forgot to put it on an extra layer, that's why it's still there...
I used a soft brush with a fine texture and low opacity and flow. Maybe that's something to work off.

Diamond
02-24-2014, 01:30 PM
I think I may have already mentioned this to you, vorro, but a member here, Bill Hooks, put together some pretty convincing caterpillar-style brushes: http://www.cartographersguild.com/mapping-elements/11176-fuzzy-caterpillar-victorian-mountain-brushes.html. I've used them on a couple of different maps, and with some minor tweaking, they look pretty great.

vorropohaiah
02-24-2014, 02:44 PM
I really want to use that mountain style at some point, but I'm lazy and want a short cut. I messed around in Illustrator for 10 minutes and came up with this (with a little texture added in Photoshop to make it look like it's been inked):

Obviously it could do with some variation in the length and shape of the lines, but that's dead simple. Getting the end points of the ranges to look right might be a bit fiddly though. I'll have to play around some more and see whether I can get it to work. What do you think could make it closer to that style? If I can get it right I'd be happy to post a tutorial so you can use it in these maps :)
thats pretty good! shame i dont know illustrator (considering the map style im going for id probably be saving a lot of time using netscape or illustrator)


I think I may have already mentioned this to you, vorro, but a member here, Bill Hooks, put together some pretty convincing caterpillar-style brushes: http://www.cartographersguild.com/mapping-elements/11176-fuzzy-caterpillar-victorian-mountain-brushes.html. I've used them on a couple of different maps, and with some minor tweaking, they look pretty great.
i had seen these. though theyre good as theyre not that flexible and will involve a lot of editing and copy/pasting - though still easier than makin them all from scratch. als theres a matter of licencing - i might publish the atlas at some point and want to make sure im using oppen resources like fonts and brushes

Raptori
02-24-2014, 03:50 PM
thats pretty good! shame i dont know illustrator (considering the map style im going for id probably be saving a lot of time using netscape or illustrator)

Funny, I'd have guessed you were using Illustrator since those maps look very vector-like.

That technique wouldn't require any knowledge of illustrator really, it's basically just use pen tool + apply a brush then adjust the width of the line, so dead simple. Making it look more hand drawn seems to be a little more difficult... I wish it would be possible to have the brush resize at random like you can with Photoshop :/

Eilathen
02-25-2014, 09:08 AM
[heartfelt plea]
Oh please please no caterpillar mountains! There are so many nice suggestions from Lingon, Raptori and others that look sooo much better than those non-mountains that are the caterpillars.
[/heartfelt plea]

:D

vorropohaiah
02-25-2014, 10:10 AM
well since they're political maps its not that important that there are mountains or not. i might go for something like what raptori suggested (the europe and Dinotopia maps) though neither are strictly necessary. the dinotopia ones are nice though the only way i can see myself doing them is printing out a 50% opacity version of the map in full scale and painting them in by hand as im not convinced i can do them on a tablet. (my bamboo is in dire need of an update!)

Raptori
02-25-2014, 10:24 AM
well since they're political maps its not that important that there are mountains or not. i might go for something like what raptori suggested (the europe and Dinotopia maps) though neither are strictly necessary. the dinotopia ones are nice though the only way i can see myself doing them is printing out a 50% opacity version of the map in full scale and painting them in by hand as im not convinced i can do them on a tablet. (my bamboo is in dire need of an update!)

Their importance would really depend on the technological level of the time. If it's easy to cross the mountains/go around them then they're probably not important. If they're a significant barrier to travel though, they'd play a major part in the how each area coalesces into a new culture, and how they'd interact with their neighbours. I'm just about to start reading Guns, Germs and Steel which is supposed to really do a good job of discussing that, should be an interesting read.

Yah I was thinking the same - those mountains might be a case where drawing manually is a lot easier. I love my tablet - if you have 700€ to spare I can't recommend the Yiynova MSP19u enough (this review is pretty accurate (http://frenden.com/post/38693256477/yiynovamsp19u))! The ability to draw directly on the screen should make those much easier; sadly my partner uses it most of the time, so I may have to steal it back to try that actually... Edit: just looked at the latest post on that guy's tumblr - turns out there's a similar tablet now out for $389...

Pixie
02-25-2014, 04:14 PM
I'm just about to start reading Guns, Germs and Steel which is supposed to really do a good job of discussing that, should be an interesting read.


You just can't go about world building without reading this! Good choice for reading ;)

Raptori
02-25-2014, 04:19 PM
You just can't go about world building without reading this! Good choice for reading ;)

I've been wanting to read it for a couple of years now, ever since I read Collapse. I'm holding off doing anything more on my worldbuilding until I've read it, but I've got to finish The City and The City before I can get on to GG&S... :D

vorropohaiah
02-26-2014, 03:42 AM
might have to check that out myself :)

I'm thinking of perhaps something along these lines even if its perhaps 8-0 years too modern (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~205498~3002457:Mediterranean-Sea---inset--Barcelon?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort). I'm trying to find when these maps came into style to see if it's 'historically' possible. Though I'm worried the colours might make it a bit too busy

Raptori
02-26-2014, 05:45 AM
It would look very detailed, but it'd probably work quite nicely if you keep the colour scheme quite toned down. It might actually top the other options in terms of amount of effort to do though :P

vorropohaiah
02-26-2014, 06:51 AM
It might actually top the other options in terms of amount of effort to do though :P

I think so! but its actually my favourite type of mountains. much more detailed

Raptori
02-26-2014, 07:00 AM
Yeah same, it's by a mile the clearest way of showing the altitude, and it can look really nice too. Reminds me of the scene in Ender's Game where he draws the contour lines for an island, then makes his desk display it as a 3D object... *wishful thinking* lol

Llannagh
02-26-2014, 07:01 AM
I agree, it would definitely look great, especially if you tone it down, but it looks like an awful amount of work!

Lingon
02-26-2014, 08:26 AM
That look would be perfect! At first, I didn't like it, then I saw how well it would fit with the other elements in your maps. I say go for it :)

Funnily, it would be quite easy to get that effect with watercolors. Layering thin red washes with a small round brush, letting the previous layer dry completely first, would give a very similar look, including the dark edges and the slight texture.

Ilanthar
02-26-2014, 10:26 AM
I can only support the idea! Because it reminds me of my old atlas And because the first fantasy map I made, I had used this kind of mountains :)

Eilathen
02-26-2014, 02:46 PM
Well, hell yes is all i can say! ;) That'd be a very nice style. Hope you can pull it off, Vorro!

vorropohaiah
02-27-2014, 01:38 PM
So, I’ve got some more work done on the Atlas entries as well as some tweaks and minor adjustments that no-one other than myself is likely to even notice and I’m getting closer to finding a style I’m happy with (though I’m still torn about the mountains, though i'll keep that for another day...

Of these new maps the most complex, by far is the one detailing twin nations of Ahrishen and Virahan. This is largely due to the many lakes, the relatively small scale (compare this map with the one of Ezasuth, for instance), and the fact that the regions to the west, south-east and east had already been mapped (Vârr, the Haréshk and Nakhé, respectively) so there was a lot of back and forth between this map and the older ones to make sure that everything (borders, coastlines, graticules) lined up and scaled together correctly.

61849

I think I done a decent job (though it’s far from done…), though I realise that the maps are nothing much to look at at the moment and wont exactly be arty maps when they're done - they're political maps, detailing resources, roads, trade routes and such things and are functional rather than pretty,though I hope the Atlas can be seen as a work of art in some respects once its done. Also, the more maps I get done the more time-consuming the task gets. Also, the more maps I get done means the farther away from my comfort zone (Inner Sea) I get, which means more terra incognita: the lands around Korachan are very familiar as I’ve been working on them for coming up to a year now, though the farther afield I move the more unexplored certain regions become.

61850 61851 61852 61853

vorropohaiah
02-28-2014, 04:46 AM
Of the maps I've worked on so far I think my favourites have to be Khamid, Venthir and Tzallrach since they represent neighbouring regions and the distinctive coastlines can be recognised from map to map, despite the differences in scale and orientation

618806188161882

Raptori
03-01-2014, 07:12 AM
Do you have a map of the entire planet? I've seen the maps of the Inner Sea, is that continent the whole world or is there more? I've had a quick look around but can't find anything :P

vorropohaiah
03-01-2014, 08:19 AM
Do you have a map of the entire planet? I've seen the maps of the Inner Sea, is that continent the whole world or is there more? I've had a quick look around but can't find anything :P

Sure. The inner Sea is equitable to just a Mediterranean-like region of the world, so Is only a small part of the world. There’s a link in my sig for a stereographic map im also working on (also gigantic) which displays the world in a stereographic projection.

For convenience’s sake here’s a few images of the world map in different states.

61911 61912 61913

Raptori
03-01-2014, 08:53 AM
Awesome thanks, looks great :)

Viking
03-01-2014, 04:41 PM
I am so happy to see more of your work Vorro!

vorropohaiah
03-02-2014, 10:08 AM
4 new maps. All around the Inner Sea.

61952 61953 61954 61955

Lingon
03-03-2014, 07:49 AM
You're turning these out really quickly! I love the name Lyridia Dhai… "Lyridia" has this really nice greyish Prussian blue hue, and Dhai is a soft brown, but there are also streaks of a deep red and a strong, golden yellow through both of them… I'm weird.

Anyway, I noticed a typo: independent, in Lyridia Dhai's cartouche, is misspelled.

By the way, is the plan to finish all the maps to this stage before detailing them?

vorropohaiah
03-03-2014, 08:02 AM
thanks for spotting that, ill fix it as soon as possible.

I like the colour descriptors of the word. Nice to see these invented words evoke some form of sensation.

I wasn't actively planning on finishing all the maps in this stage before i carry on, though it is helpful to the writing to have larger scale maps available. One thing i want to add to them is a scale bar to better be able to measure distances, especially as some of the maps are at very different scales.

I'd like to get the territories and borders done on at least a few of the more simple maps, at least to get an idea of what I'm aiming for (starting with what are possibly the two most complex maps I've done so far [Korachan and shibboleth] was a bad idea!). though its the forests/mountains and labelling that i'm dreading most!

vorropohaiah
03-06-2014, 08:14 AM
3 more maps. The Inner Sea coastline is coming together pretty nicely now, though the new maps are taking longer to get done as i need to make sure the coastlines all line up with previous maps. I also started work on the borders/territory markers and hope to get something posted by the weekend.

62076 62077 62078

Raptori
03-06-2014, 09:46 AM
Looking good as always :)

Is the "A map of" necessary? Now that the other text is gone, it could make more sense to remove it. For one thing it's a bit redundant since it's in the map section of the encyclopedia, for another it's even more redundant because anyone can see it's a map :P

"The Secular Republic of Parthis and its Suzerain States", for example, is exactly the amount of information required. The rest of the maps feel like they've got a high level of precision - it'd make sense to reflect this in the labelling wherever possible :)

vorropohaiah
03-08-2014, 05:17 AM
Is the "A map of" necessary? Now that the other text is gone, it could make more sense to remove it. For one thing it's a bit redundant since it's in the map section of the encyclopedia, for another it's even more redundant because anyone can see it's a map :P

"The Secular Republic of Parthis and its Suzerain States", for example, is exactly the amount of information required. The rest of the maps feel like they've got a high level of precision - it'd make sense to reflect this in the labelling wherever possible :)

True. something else to get rid of :)

@ Diamond - the Halolach map above includes an inset map. how does this one compare to the one you commented on earlier?

Soixante
04-22-2014, 07:34 AM
Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.

Raptori
04-22-2014, 08:36 AM
Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.

I don't know about vorro, but I use NASA's free G.Projector (http://www.giss.nasa.gov/tools/gprojector/) program to do this.

I created an equirectangular map of my world without any graticules on it, with continents in white and oceans in black. When I want a new projection I open G.Projector and select that map. I then fiddle with the options (different map projections, graticule settings, latitude and longitude of the center point, etc) then once I've got a projection that I like covering the correct area, I then export it as a jpg at the largest size possible. The exported jpg is used as a template from which I create the map.

I know some other people on here use the same program (I think - Max - does, for example), though their techniques might vary a bit :)

- Max -
04-22-2014, 10:05 AM
Actually I'm also using G.Projector. Once the projection imported in photoshop, I just get rid of G.Projector graticules to draw mines using paths.

vorropohaiah
04-22-2014, 10:19 AM
Hi vorropohaiah. I'm a big fan of your world-building and cartography project. Since I have been for a long time been meaning to do an atlas of my own world, I wanted to ask how you get correct longitude and latitude graticules? I know Fractal Terrains can do this, but when you're using a pre-built world with existing coastlines? More specifically, how do you go about changing the projection from a worldview map to a regional map, and even if you decided not to do this; how would you go about re-centering the projection for each regional map, all while keeping the graticule consistent with the overall map? I want to do a traditional atlas type graticule, with the central line of longitude being more or less vertical. This has been giving me a lot of headaches as I just can't figure out how to do it.

Pretty much what Raptori and -Max- said :)

in more detail - i have an equirectangular worldmap (black land white sea) which i import into g. Projector. Generall i use an equidistant conic map, thugh the projection depends on the latitude. i then export a map without graticules, keeping a note of the settings. I then use a blank map and export another one with graticules. I then use those exported g.projector maps as templates, tracing the coastlines in more detail on one an the graticules on the other.

Obviously if youre making an atlas, keep in mind regions youve already mapped when youre mapping adjacent regions - dont retrace the coastlines if theyve already been done, otherwise youll end up with conflicting areas!

J.Edward
08-08-2014, 11:26 AM
After Raptori said about using a brush to do caterpillar ranges I tried out some in PS. I put them up if you wanted to try them out.
I'm really enjoying your thorough style and wanted to help out if I could.
Here's the link http://www.cartographersguild.com/mapping-elements/27948-carto-brushes-caterpillar-ridges-train-tracks.html#post250987
and here's what the brushes look like
66411

vorropohaiah
08-09-2014, 03:34 AM
great stuff! and i was about to start redoing the atlas pages so i might have a go using these