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cebdos
02-12-2014, 12:39 PM
hello everybody,

I am a player of age of empires 2 and my team and I are organizing a tourney
we wanted to do something exotic so I came up with the idea of some sort of wargame

the main issue is that it obviously implies mapmaking and I don't have such skills
I found a superb map on the internet which is perfect for what we want to do :
http://www.cartographersguild.com/attachments/regional-world-mapping/52099d1360592560-fantasy-world-continent-map-feedback-crits-map_001_wip.jpg

I tried to caption it but it is quite uggly in the end
that is why I am looking for your help

it would be very cool if someone could
- caption it
- draw the borders
- draw the see paths

here is the original caption :
*
it doesn't need to be that big, just readable if we zoom on it

see paths are not borders, they just mean that territories are linked
Black Forest and Ghost Lake are linked too but I didn't manage to make it understandable :?

I would be really grateful if someone could do this


PS. optional modifications could be (in order of importance) :
- add a small lake in Hamburger (there is a lake in this age of empires' map)
- make the lake of Ghost Lake more pale/white
- add a castle in Fortress
- delete the land in the lake of Baltic

I am also open to suggestions
thanks for your time!

- Max -
02-12-2014, 01:10 PM
Since you want to use a map of a Guilder, the best way is probably to reach 5 posts forums (I'm pretty sure you want to comment many things around ;) ) and private message the guy who made this map to know first if he allows you to use it.

cebdos
02-12-2014, 01:24 PM
salut :)

sorry I didn't realize this was copyrighted since I found it on google
it seems that the guy is pretty much inactive though

Gamerprinter
02-12-2014, 01:27 PM
I've got a ton of maps (some published and all copyrighted) posted on various forums and portfolios across the internet that will show up in a Google search. So just because you find a map on a Google search doesn't mean it has no copyright. Just type "Michael Tumey maps" in Google and see what you find. All my maps are copyrighted, but they still show up in a Google search.

- Max -
02-12-2014, 01:36 PM
So just because you find a map on a Google search doesn't mean it has no copyright.
What GP said. It's not because you find stuff on the internet that means it's free stuff :) Even if it's not copyrighted, that doesn't mean you can use the map as you want. The guy is still the owner of its work. ( And since you're french, you probably know that pretty well since us frenchies have a pretty strong law about intellectual property :P )

Jalyha
02-12-2014, 01:43 PM
Hi there :) I understand your confusion.. just wanted to say something to explain better, maybe?


Generally (not always, but usually,) the following are true:

Search engines, like GOOGLE search for key words on the webpages (the ones from your search, and related words), all over the internet, to try and find what you're looking for. The things with the most hits, and the most traffic, tend to show up first, because the *numbers* say "this is what you're looking for".


So a search for "Mickey Mouse cartoon" will tend to show actual Mickey mouse (and other Disney) cartoons. The ones that are *definitely* copyrighted.

Same thing for any other search.. it tries to find the most relevant items first (whether they have a copyright or not).

Google can use these images (placing them on the results page) because all Google is doing is showing you where to find the original version (with its' copyright info usually there on the page it links to, somewhere). That doesn't mean they are free to use for anyone else. :)

Mostly, you can assume that anything that is someone else's work is copyrighted, unless it says it is not.

Even things other people are using, might be copyrighted - maybe they got permission to use it :)

AND if someone gives you permission to use their copyrighted work, unless they say you can, you can't give other people permission to use it, either.

So, if someone here said you could use their map for your tourney... you can't let other people at the tourney take it and use it for other tournies, unless the mapmaker has said you can.

It's all REALLY complicated and confusing, so it's always best to ask first to avoid trouble later :)


Of course that's all just to the best of my rather simple understanding :P

cebdos
02-12-2014, 01:53 PM
hi

I actually thought it was the other way around, that stuff are not copyrighted unless it's mentioned
thanks for the information, I will be more carefull from now on ;)

I will try to contact him as soon as I reach 5 posts

Jalyha
02-12-2014, 01:58 PM
Yep. Just think of it like this.... if you build a 4ft tall castle with popsicle sticks, whose castle is it?

It's yours. You made it. You don't have to put a sign on the castle in your yard saying "Don't use without permission". It's *yours*. Taken as granted.

Now, if someone steals it, you might have to prove you own it to get it back, which is why people get insurance, or in the case of intellectual property, they take out patents and copyrights and things. But even if they don't, it's still theirs until they say anyone can have it :)

Gamerprinter
02-12-2014, 02:02 PM
While actually applying for a copyright at your government copyright office and paying a fee has stronger legal grounds. All you have to do to maintain legal copyrights is to do what I do with all my maps. Somewhere on the map (usually on the border or near a corner) I place "my name, Copyright, date, and the C with a circle around it." I never actually apply for an official copyright, but having labeled it so, it is legally copyrighted.

Falconius
02-12-2014, 02:27 PM
As far as I'm aware as long as it's been created and is able to be copyrighted it gets copyright protection. You don't have to do anything. The problem though is proving that yours was first or that it is yours. Which is why people register things or publish them, even posting them here on a third party site that has a time stamp will help your v=claim should it be required.

cebdos
02-12-2014, 02:53 PM
I checked the french law by curiosity, and you don't even have to do anything to make it copyrighted
as long as it is your creation, people are not legally allowed to use it (in France at least)

the thing is you can't prove you are the one who did it :?:

EDIT : pretty much what Falconius said hahaha sorry (but it gives me 1 more post yeay!)

Jalyha
02-12-2014, 03:27 PM
As far as proof goes... that's actually become less complicated, with digital works.

The map you found on google, for example, was posted on a certain day/time to these forums. The person who posted them can prove the account is his, the time stamp in the forums proves he had completed the map on a certain date and time, and it would be up to anyone else to prove they'd completed it *prior* to that. (Which they couldn't, since they didn't...)

I've also seen (very rarely, in very expensive/high profile cases) dating done on inks, papers, and canvases to prove if one artwork/manuscript/whatever was created before another.

There was even a case when a man proved his ownership of an invention by showing a preliminary sketch in one of his old diaries/journals.

Posting online just makes it easier, because *everything* is stamped with a time/date, even if you can't see it :)

And the easiest (imho) way to prove something was created, for example, by me, and not by you, is that I could probably recreate it (or something very similar) while you could not :)

Just like I could not recreate one of Max or GP's masterpieces (and yes, darn you all, I've tried D: )

Midgardsormr
02-12-2014, 03:44 PM
For reference purposes, the law is similar in all of the nations that are signatories to the Berne Convention, which is the international treaty that governs intellectual property protection. Treaties and Contracting Parties: Berne Convention (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/summary_berne.html)
TraitÚs et parties contractantes: Convention de Berne (http://www.wipo.int/treaties/fr/ip/berne/summary_berne.html) (Same thing but in French)

Most nations' laws are somewhat stricter than the treaty itself, but it does at least establish a minimum baseline that states that all artistic works are protected from the moment of their creation without necessity of registration or any other notification of copyright status.

The bottom line of all of that is that you should always assume that a work is protected unless the original author has specifically said that it is not.

As for proving original authorship, in many cases it's fairly easy because the artist usually has the original Gimp or Photoshop file.

cebdos
02-13-2014, 06:47 AM
if I get the creator's approval, would someone be interested by my request?

Jalyha
02-13-2014, 12:56 PM
Probably at least a few people would be willing to help, but I don't think you'll find anyone here even willing to nibble until they're sure it's okay to go ahead with the project.

There are so many sure things in the world. :)

I suggest 1) Taking down the map for a start? 2) Finding/Contacting the creator, and 3) Getting permission to use it. You never know, maybe the original mapmaker would even be interested in your project, but you can't know until you talk to them.


Once you've done that, if you have permission to use it, I'd create a new thread saying what rights you have to the map and/or can bestow on the mapmaker (probably not much if any) and any other details of your request.

THEN you will get offers - when everyone is sure everything is above ground, yes? :)

vapourfire
02-18-2014, 03:20 PM
Hi Everyone....

I am the original creator of the map in question.

To cut a long story short:

1) The map is part of a worldbuilding exercise for my own writing and represents a single continent of a world with about 5 or 6 more... I have been busy with other things - hence no further updates and I do not feel comfortable including all the details (places/names etc) and my original intention was to get design and style feedback - purely aesthetically.

2) I have had requests before regarding "using" the map and I have been in two minds but I have realised that I am likely to rework this map many more times for my writing so its no longer that "private"

3) Cebdos has permission to use this for a non-commercial private purpose. I.e. if he wants to use the map for an age of empires map or similar then he can go ahead

4) Cebdos may not pass the original map off as his own and may not publish it publicly without a note to where he got it. Obviously under no circumstances can it be used and printed in a book....

5) I have no interest in helping do the final names etc but anyone else is welcome to help Cebdos.

Cheers

Lance.

cebdos
02-18-2014, 05:36 PM
hello vapoufire,

thank you very much!

Diamond
02-19-2014, 03:31 AM
Just as a side note: above and beyond everything else that's been said, the brushes used on vapourfire's map were created by StarRaven http://www.cartographersguild.com/mapping-elements/13148-sketchy-map-symbols-magic-circles.html, so not only would one have to obtain permission to use vapourfire's map, but also determine if it was okay to use a map that uses yet another person's intellectual property.