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ravells
09-01-2008, 01:38 PM
In this month's challenge we are looking for individual styles of mapping. The challenge is to draw a regional map of part of a coastline and to bring your own mapping style to the table. We would particularly like to encourage people who have not taken part in a monthly challenge before to enter. Entering a challenge is a good way to improve your mapping skills as you have a deadline to work to - you will be able to get a lot of advice (bidden and unbidden) from other members of the guild!

We have produced a map attached below which could use some improvement (it was drawn by RobA after all). Your challenge is to translate the attached map into your very own style. Change the colours, symbols and text and make this map your own. Make it 3d, or draw it on paper: intricate or simple - it is up to you.

By way of explanation:

The big magenta hexagon is a city
The small magenta hexagons are towns
The greeny yellow smudges are marshes
The bright green smudges are forests
The pointy lines are mountains
The rounded lines are hills
The blue lines are rivers

North is at about 11 o'clock.
Each edge of the map is 100 miles.

We would like voters to vote for the map which has the most individual style in which all the elements of the map work together to form a pleasing whole. As this contest is about individuality, all contestants should list with their map any elements used which were not created by them.

Final entries to be posted by 25th September.

Good Luck!!!

Valarian
09-01-2008, 03:35 PM
No fair ... my individual style is severely hampered by a lack of anything resembling artistic talent. All of the symbols I use will be by someone else. I have a sense of aesthetics, but no talent. Unless of course, you want the map to look somewhat like the map shown above.

ravells
09-01-2008, 03:40 PM
You can use them, you just have to say that you have used them. If you're using CC to make the map, just say you've used CC symbols. Colour and compositional choices are pretty important too. I've seen symbol maps with great symbols but which just don't go together (few of my own would probably fit into that category). Have a go Ian -it'll be fun.

Valarian
09-01-2008, 05:01 PM
Do I get a handicap? Zero artistic ability and only a sense of aesthetics to fall back on.

jfrazierjr
09-01-2008, 06:16 PM
How close does the land mass need to match? Ie, I see several 2px lakes and I assume we don't need to draw those.

Ascension
09-01-2008, 06:28 PM
I have some questions:
1) Is this meant for print, VTT, or some other mass distribution?
2) Is this meant to be a hypothetical map request to see how well we translate what some unknown author gives us as his/her starting point? If yes, then the following questions are irrelevant.
3) How much coast fidelity will we be judged on? I know it has be close but the black stroke on the landmasses makes it a lil hard for 100% accuracy when enlarged.
4) I have attached a pic with 2 areas of note if fidelity has to be really accurate: A) The circled area on the left denotes a river not connected to a large lake...should it stay this way or can I attach it? B) The circled area on the right, because of the stroking, I cannot tell if this is meant to be some islands or one large island with lakes.

Again, questions 3 and 4 need only be answered if acute fidelity needs to be the goal (ie over 90% accuracy).

Edit: PS - What sort of climate do we have here?

ravells
09-01-2008, 06:42 PM
You don't have to be that faithful to the exact shape, meaning you don't have to follow every crinkle in the coastline. Near enough for a good resemblance will do. As far as the guild is concerned the map is for competition purposes only - yes this is a hypothetical map made by RobA for the purpose of the competition.

Hope that helps!

ravells
09-01-2008, 07:14 PM
More guidance from RobA who is away and is on his blackberry (I always knew those things had to be good for something). The square brackets are my amendments where RobA has posed choices.




The map doesn't have to be square so long it is of (arbitrarily) 80% of the orinal (if smaller) or is 80% original (if larger). I.e. Feel free to remove smaller islands on the edges or complete cut off islands at the edges.

Also it... [should] be at a higher resolution than the sample

[the] map is a general guideline to be followed as closely as reasonable and as reasonable as possible.

For example there is no specified road network or indication of era so this could be anything from an alien planet with analagous features and domed cities to a frontier in the viking days to an established (romanesque) empire to a modern metropolis complete with high speed mag lev lines...

The focus can be as a sea chart or as a land map

delgondahntelius
09-01-2008, 07:26 PM
I.E. .... Have fun with it, as long as it follows the original simple map provided as a basis. I believe the intended purpose is to see how everyone would draw the same map applying their own individual style to it.

:D

bryguy
09-01-2008, 08:49 PM
yes! finally a challenge that i really want to join



just a quick question tho, can i have an example of what the scale is supposed to be?

delgondahntelius
09-01-2008, 09:11 PM
define example? .... the scale is 100 miles per edge of the map....

Gamerprinter
09-01-2008, 09:17 PM
I would think there would be more participants to this challenge than last month. Especially with the influx of Conquer Club members, this being more like a Risk map, than last month's challenge.

I already know, that I'll be doing hand-drawn work with this challenge, also see using a parchment for the background. Though I plan to use some color, parchment sepia will dominate.

I hope to "step it up" by trying a more refined hand-drawn style than my previous hand-drawn work. Though I'll be digitally placing most of the text, I think I'll try my hand at hand-drawn text, at least for regional, sovereign and city/town text.

Good luck everyone!

GP

torstan
09-02-2008, 04:33 AM
Anyone else terrified about the possibility of HandsomeRob entering this month? :)

delgondahntelius
09-02-2008, 05:05 AM
The odds of me winning if he does?? ....

Robbie
09-02-2008, 07:30 AM
I'm actually considering entering this month ;)

Steel General
09-02-2008, 08:58 AM
I might even throw my proverbial "hat in the ring" this month. :)

Redrobes
09-02-2008, 09:14 AM
With all this interest I had better get some thumbnails in place. You can go here for the standard sticky thread (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2066) for details about how to target a particular image and see latest thimbs.



### New Challenge Entry:Gamerprinter,2858
### New Challenge Entry:Jkaen,2859
### New Challenge Entry:Valarian,2861
### New Challenge Entry:ravells,2863
### New Challenge Entry:Redstar,2864
### New Challenge Entry:Torq,2869
### New Challenge Entry:Morshwan,2874
### New Challenge Entry:Ascension,2875
### New Challenge Entry:Bryguy,2876
### New Challenge Entry:NeonKnight,2879
### New Challenge Entry:Sagenlicht,2886
### New Challenge Entry:Steel General,2887
### New Challenge Entry:Delgondahntelius,2891
### New Challenge Entry:Redrobes,2894
### New Challenge Entry:MountZionRyan,2895
### New Challenge Entry:Lord,2898
### New Challenge Entry:Waldronate,2900
### New Challenge Entry:jfrazierjr,2904
### New Challenge Entry:gtrlarry,2908
### New Challenge Entry:Ghostman,2911
### New Challenge Entry:joao paulo,2915
### New Challenge Entry:nemojbatkastle,2920
### New Challenge Entry:dorpond,2923
### New Challenge Entry:Patrakis,2924
### New Challenge Entry:RobA,2929
### New Challenge Entry:jezelf,2942
### New Challenge Entry:loydb,2958
### New Challenge Entry:alucard339,3003
### New Challenge Entry:mmmmmpig,3006
### New Challenge Entry:industrygothica,3010

bryguy
09-02-2008, 10:40 AM
define example? .... the scale is 100 miles per edge of the map....

thats whats confusing me, is it 100 miles from 1 corner to the other? and at that size, if i had the size of the image 800x800, would you be able to see (if barely) the villages and trees? cause im not really used to using villages..... except in larger scaled maps of mine


oh and am i allowed to make it bigger? cause im used to using a minimum size of 800x800..... sometimes bigger

Redrobes
09-02-2008, 11:09 AM
I would think that the map would be larger in pixels than this original because it is very small. Its just a guide. I am like you in that my style is for a realistic view like a satellite image so that the towns would be really small in scale. If the map was 1000 pixels square then a pixel would be about 530 ft. So a village is just a pixel or two, a big town maybe 5. I think the expectation is to make a map that describes the locations as opposed to a photo real version of the terrain.

delgondahntelius
09-02-2008, 12:23 PM
thats whats confusing me, is it 100 miles from 1 corner to the other? and at that size, if i had the size of the image 800x800, would you be able to see (if barely) the villages and trees? cause im not really used to using villages..... except in larger scaled maps of mine


oh and am i allowed to make it bigger? cause im used to using a minimum size of 800x800..... sometimes bigger

yes... 100 miles from corner to corner, which would give you roughly ... 10,000 square miles of map... You can make the map as large as you want too I suppose.... the image is just basis from which to map from. making it 800 x 800 would give you 8 pixels per mile.... i'm sure you will see much larger maps than that ...

ravells
09-02-2008, 12:43 PM
Sorry, I'm confused now. I don't understand where pixels come into it. The map is 100 miles along each edge. If you want to make something hugely detailed and contained in a huge document that's fine. If you want to create a map which is small, that's also fine, but the distance would still be 100 miles along each edge for both of them. Effectively you can make the scale what you like, if you see what I mean.

delgondahntelius
09-02-2008, 12:48 PM
I think he's confusing scale with pixels... but what rav said is true... make it as big or a small as you like... its still 100 miles long and 100 miles high... :D

Sorry rav... I was just trying to give him a pixel/mile ratio if he made his map in 800px increments... didn't mean to confuse you, or me...

bryguy
09-02-2008, 04:00 PM
I would think that the map would be larger in pixels than this original because it is very small. Its just a guide. I am like you in that my style is for a realistic view like a satellite image so that the towns would be really small in scale. If the map was 1000 pixels square then a pixel would be about 530 ft. So a village is just a pixel or two, a big town maybe 5. I think the expectation is to make a map that describes the locations as opposed to a photo real version of the terrain.

i know a way to make villages that are about 3x5 pixels, but ive never tried anything smaller, so i may have to use symbols :)

and thanks rav and del :)

Robbie
09-02-2008, 04:29 PM
Keep in mind that style also refers to stylization...just because a river is DRAWN as if it were 700 meters across, doesn't mean that is is. Maps are a functional form of artwork, and in history many of the bits and pieces of maps were purely representational of location, not scale. A good stylized map will always show WHERE a river is and WHERE a town is, but very few stylized maps actually show size in relation to the maps scale.

Lets not be so picky about the fine science behind your entries and focus more on the art and style of your entries. That is in fact what we should all be voting on.

My 2C

kpadua
09-02-2008, 04:43 PM
Oooo sounds exciting...!! I am a newcomer. Any scale or size restrictions?

NeonKnight
09-02-2008, 04:48 PM
Oooo sounds exciting...!! I am a newcomer. Any scale or size restrictions?

Nope. As long as the map depicts the area shown and constrains to the map scale of 100 miles x 100 miles

Cisticola
09-03-2008, 12:18 PM
Never done a regional map before.....done lots of battlemaps and such.....but sounds like a challenge I can have some fun with.....count me in:)

Ascension
09-03-2008, 04:45 PM
Uh oh, if Cisti's in then we're all in for some trouble, just don't let Kepli near the map when done :)

mmmmmpig
09-03-2008, 04:52 PM
what is the phrase? Oh, yes, "It's on like Donkey Kong!"

Steel General
09-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I thought I recognized that name from somewhere...

Midgardsormr
09-03-2008, 05:41 PM
Wow; there are some names popping up here that I haven't seen around in a while! Welcome back Cisti and m^5pig!

I really hope I can find the time to get in on this one, too, but it's not looking good so far.

MountZionRyan
09-03-2008, 07:38 PM
New guy throws hat in ring. Let's see what I can come up with.

Morshwan
09-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Hi, I would like to know which lingua do you prefer in this contest? Only English, or we can try in French, Latin (or something looks like), own idiom?

ravells
09-04-2008, 01:36 PM
Any language you like, Morshwan!

ravells
09-04-2008, 05:08 PM
I have to say that Redrobe's script has really come into its own on this challenge, it's great to see all the maps side by side and compare them. Thank you Redrobes!!!

Lord
09-04-2008, 09:29 PM
I'll be joining this one too... i'm aiming for a 3000px image though... or larger.

p.s. can we get a hard date for when the thread lockdown is? i don't want to get shutout like last time ;)

delgondahntelius
09-04-2008, 09:55 PM
25th of Sept... I would imagine Midnight would be the cut off....

Valarian
09-05-2008, 03:26 AM
Which midnight?

delgondahntelius
09-05-2008, 03:38 AM
The one ending the 25th

or the last midnight of the 25th :D

Valarian
09-05-2008, 04:50 AM
The one ending the 25th

or the last midnight of the 25th :D
My midnight, your midnight, or the midnight on the server? :P

Robbie
09-05-2008, 08:03 AM
In the past it was usually the morning or mid-day of the due date that the votes start and threads close...we try to aim for 5 days of voting before the end of the month.

A hard and fast time is hard to predict because we're all hobbyists with day jobs, so having a CL or me here to close the threads and start the voting at a hard/fast time is not something we can just schedule really. I'm sure if a few hours makes the difference between win/lose or post/no-post some allowances can be made if a pm is sent to the CL who ups the vote thread.

Redrobes
09-05-2008, 08:18 AM
I have to say that Redrobe's script has really come into its own on this challenge, it's great to see all the maps side by side and compare them. Thank you Redrobes!!!Thanks, they do look good all stacked up together. This one is a bit of a humdinger of a challenge. We are a few days in with 14 so far and I know of 4 more promises and one more maybe already. Every time I log in I have to add a bunch more and run it again. If it does not look like its updated then press ctrl F5 in Firefox to get it to refresh the cache - that catches me out every now and again and I know when I have just added them !

jfrazierjr
09-05-2008, 10:56 AM
So.. a question on the map size. Is the hard limit on map size 100x100 miles mean the map(canvas) has to be square or does it mean that that the mapped area is 100x100 miles in width/height. The reason I am asking is that I am playing with a technique that is new to me.... and if it works, I will use that as my entry....

jfrazierjr
09-05-2008, 07:58 PM
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Redrobes
09-05-2008, 08:07 PM
As far as I can tell the challenge is thus: Here is a ref map. Make any kind of map with any kind of style with any kind of projection and any kind of colors as long as it represents the area shown by the ref map. Go wild and show us what you got.

delgondahntelius
09-05-2008, 08:13 PM
RR pretty much has it right... show us what you got... if for some reason we don't think it conforms to the challenge rules.. I'm sure we'll let you know :D

delgondahntelius
09-07-2008, 02:52 PM
Wow... extraordinary turnout this month... I hope we have as many finishing as we have starting this month ... love that so many joined up cause it makes it that much more interesting and enjoyable.... :D

Steel General
09-09-2008, 07:12 AM
My entry appears to be showing up twice in the Thumbnails, not sure why though.

NeonKnight
09-09-2008, 07:34 AM
My entry appears to be showing up twice in the Thumbnails, not sure why though.

It certainly won't entitle you to twice as many votes ;)

Redrobes
09-09-2008, 09:18 AM
My entry appears to be showing up twice in the Thumbnails, not sure why though.Oh yes ! Well you have two threads in this months challenge and I think that its looking up which pic to use by user name so its getting confused. The thumb name is username_date.png so I think its overwriting the thumb with the same name pic and referencing twice. So which one is the live one ? I'm guessing the second - ill change it, let me know if it was supposed to have been the first. Gimme a while for it to update tho.

Steel General
09-09-2008, 12:34 PM
It certainly won't entitle you to twice as many votes ;)

Heck, I'll be happy if I even get 1 vote.

@RedRobes - I thought it might have something to do with the 2 posts, but I figured when the original was moved it would take care of it.

They look the same to me, so get rid of either one, doesn't really matter. I hope to have an update later today. I'll look at the other thread in the WIP forum and make sure it doesn't have the "### Latest WIP ###" anywhere in it.

jfrazierjr
09-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Heck, I'll be happy if I even get 1 vote.


ditto.. I will NOT vote for myself, so hopefully I can produce something that at least one other person might like enough to vote for.

Redrobes
09-09-2008, 01:17 PM
Its less to do with the WIP tag in this case and more to do with the list. If you look at this thread post #17 that's the list its using to generate all of the entries. So I can tell it to look in either of your threads. If you don't have a WIP tag then the script bags the last image in the thread anyway. The point of the WIP tag is specifically for when you want to target one image and continue talking about the stuff posting more images or extra content. Its a good idea to put one in every time you want it to be the one shown. And once you put one in then you have to keep putting them in to tell it to move to the latest tagged image. So right now its pointing at thread 2887 which is the second attempt. Ill run the thumbs script now...

ravells
09-14-2008, 04:39 PM
Gosh! I go away for ten days and find a dozen new entries! Great work everyone!

Cisticola
09-16-2008, 07:26 AM
Know the feeling Ravells.....been on holiday for a week and everyones atarted without me....better get my skates on

Sagenlicht
09-16-2008, 08:01 AM
ditto.. I will NOT vote for myself, so hopefully I can produce something that at least one other person might like enough to vote for.

Heh my hopes as well :)

Ascension
09-21-2008, 09:43 PM
As of this posting there are 27 entries...are we gonna stay with the 2 votes or maybe up it to 3? As an aside, maybe there could be a way where we give out x amount of points, say 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd...sort of like the AP poll for college football...or just give 6 people 1 point each :) Just a thought, I've no idea if it could actually be programmed or not.

Gamerprinter
09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
I think the first time we had multi-vote poll on a challenge the choice was pick 3 maps and the vote was equal not weighted in order of preferences. The goal being finding the optimal best choice from among multiple voters with counts for each individual vote. The one with the most single votes wins.

Last month was only two, because there were so few choices.

I'm sure it will be at least 3 for this month's challenge.

GP

Redrobes
09-22-2008, 07:01 AM
I would say, vote for the top quarter of the pack. So that would be about 6 votes this month. With a lot more people voting this time I would think that there would be many many votes to count but the overlap of them all should sort it all out. Its worked in the last few months this way and was brought in to combat the effect last time we had so many entries and one vote each.

Robbie
09-22-2008, 07:53 AM
Hmmm...the current plan is to go three votes with public voting on. So you get three votes and everyone can see what you voted on. 6 votes huh? sure thats not a bit excessive? I guess it depends on how many voters.

Redrobes
09-22-2008, 08:21 AM
The dilemma is that if there are two equally good (best) entries then with many votes, everyone puts those two in the list so that there is no clear winner. On the other hand (horn ?) if there are many entries and few votes then many people get a zero vote which is demoralizing. Maybe have one vote for every 5 entries then ?

Robbie
09-22-2008, 09:11 AM
I like the way you think...I'll move this idea over to the CL discussion.

Cisticola
09-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Sorry folks....just have'nt found any time to do any mapping...and that's saying something, I live and breathe maps.....

I'll try and catch the next contest.....I'll pitch in and vote though

loydb
09-26-2008, 08:30 AM
Is there a voting thread somewhere?

delgondahntelius
09-26-2008, 08:38 AM
I'm working on it as we speak... my first one .. . plus the number of entries :D .... and I'm a little slow :lol:

jfrazierjr
09-26-2008, 08:51 AM
I'm working on it as we speak... my first one .. . plus the number of entries :D .... and I'm a little slow :lol:

Perhaps you should not have stayed up so late or got up so early.:P

delgondahntelius
09-26-2008, 08:52 AM
lol... ya well... you people keep me up at night ... what can I say?