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dorpond
09-09-2008, 01:26 PM
WOOHOO!
I found a couple hours so I thought I would join in on the fun! :)

I made this in Photoshop.

Enjoy!

### Latest WIP ###

Gamerprinter
09-09-2008, 03:32 PM
Nice second entry, Dorpond!

GP

Steel General
09-09-2008, 06:03 PM
Whohoo! More meat for the grind...err more entries. :D

Ascension
09-09-2008, 06:36 PM
WeeOoo WeeOoo, River Police. Otherwise pretty cool :)

delgondahntelius
09-09-2008, 06:44 PM
where was the first entry? ... its like a google earth map.. sorta kinda ... :D except on our planet ... rivers don't defy logic :D j/k ...

jfrazierjr
09-09-2008, 07:18 PM
where was the first entry? ... its like a google earth map.. sorta kinda ... :D except on our planet ... rivers don't defy logic :D j/k ...


Ummm that would be the one he WON....:P Something about a battlemat map and he made this real sweet set of Mesa top villages. If he wins this one also, then we need to ban him from participating in the challenges.

delgondahntelius
09-09-2008, 09:26 PM
OHHH... that one, I was thinking he had already entered one map for this one... ya... I remember that first place map... and was surprised mine was third to that.... cause... there was a slight drop off after second place... paled in comparison to the other two...

Torq
09-10-2008, 03:19 AM
Hey Dorpond. Nice to see you in another challenge and nice map too. Del, you're too hard on yourself.

Torq

dorpond
09-10-2008, 06:35 AM
Thanks everyone, I think..

So a couple people are suggesting problems with my rivers but didn't tell me what. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

dorpond
09-10-2008, 09:42 AM
You know, I read and re-read many of the replies in this thread and I can't help but feel offended by some of the comments made..

I find it upsetting that people have to mention my previous entry in a negative light, suggest banning me if I win, and state that parts of my map are illogical but not say why. I thought this site was all about making better map makers out of us?

I am starting to question my decision making that map and sharing in the excitement with you all. I am disappointed, that is all I can say. :(

NeonKnight
09-10-2008, 09:52 AM
Sorry you feel that way Dorpond.

I think the map is very well done, and I know we all joke and kid about the Forking rivers, but don;t feel bad. we all have features we screw up.

I like your map, and of the Photo-realistic maps I have seen it is probably one of the few I don't need to squint my aged, failing vision to determine forest from swamp from plains.

Gamerprinter
09-10-2008, 09:57 AM
Dorpond, don't feel disappointed, I believe JFrazierJr and others were just kidding - nobody wants you banned, we love your work! I think his comment was meant to suggest you entered one challenge and won, as if just entering guarantees you a win - it was a joke in poor taste.

The previous posters do not have any negative feelings regarding your previous map - this much I am sure. I personally am very glad you entered and have missed your work since the VTT map challenge a few months back -that you won.

You are quite right, that we CG'ers only seek to help other mappers out - any posts about banning, as I said, a joke in poor taste.

Get excited about your work, we are!

GP

PS: I believe the river problems involve the fact some of your rivers split downstream into two rivers. Rivers don't do that. When two rivers converge and flow downstream, this is a fork, as it occurs in nature. Rivers do not split downstream into multiple rivers - this problem is common with many new regional mappers.

jfrazierjr
09-10-2008, 10:23 AM
You know, I read and re-read many of the replies in this thread and I can't help but feel offended by some of the comments made..

I find it upsetting that people have to mention my previous entry in a negative light, suggest banning me if I win, and state that parts of my map are illogical but not say why. I thought this site was all about making better map makers out of us?


Dorpond, please accept my most humble apology about the banning remark. The first part "Ummm that would be the one he WON..." was a light hearted jab at Delgon. The part about the banning was nothing more than a jest, indicating that I actually LOVE your map making skills; As in, they are too good for us mear mortals, so to speak.




I am starting to question my decision making that map and sharing in the excitement with you all. I am disappointed, that is all I can say. :(

If anything I want to encourage you to to post MORE, lots, lots, lots more, and especially if you have time, we(at least I) would all like to see more tutorials from you.

As for the river comments, I believe they were pointing out the river NW(if north were straight up) of your main city (about 1.5 inches from the city) which splits going downhill. Likewise, the lowest river splits about 6 inches due south(in the straight up orientation) of your largest city. The point being that in general, rivers rarely ever split while going down stream. While not impossible, it happens so rarely on Earth that most of the time, it feels out of place on a map. "I" for one have no problem with it once in a while, but two on the same map of this scale might be pushing it.

Again, please accept my profuse appologies for any hard feelings.

dorpond
09-10-2008, 11:13 AM
OK, OK. Obviously a misunderstanding on my behalf. Perhaps I woke up a little sensitive this AM. :)

Thanks for the tips on the rivers, Gamerprinter and Jfrazierjr. I always felt weak with making rivers and now thanks to your explaination, I can improve on them. Very helpful - thank you!

jfrazierjr
09-10-2008, 11:44 AM
OK, OK. Obviously a misunderstanding on my behalf. Perhaps I woke up a little sensitive this AM. :)

Thanks for the tips on the rivers, Gamerprinter and Jfrazierjr. I always felt weak with making rivers and now thanks to your explaination, I can improve on them. Very helpful - thank you!

That's ok. I KNOW I sometimes say things that I should not or don't phrase things correctly. I try really really hard to avoid saying stupid stuff, but sometimes stuff slips out. Heh... I have almost gotten fired more times than I can count by saying stuff in the wrong way. Sometimes "it's hard to get your foot out of your mouth after your toes are past you tonsils", so to speak.... Again, I apoligize for any misunderstanding on my part!


As to the map itself, over all, I really like it. When I open the map in FF3, it looks really really nice at the prescaled resolution(about 800x800). Once I bump it up to full scale, several of the elements look a little mottled together(not sure how to explain that). The Mountains look pretty good at the prescale resolution, but I think they are a bit to "bloby" at full resolution for my tastes, I think full size, it's hard to tell that they are supposed to be mountains.

Now, since the whole point of this challenge is to make the map in "your" style, don't in any way feel you have to change anything because of what I say. For that matter, since there can be reasons for a river to fork downsteam, you don't even have to change that either (there is some river somewhere in the midwest(Idaho???) that forks and one fork goes to the Pacific ocean and the other ends up in the Gulf of Mexico, which is even more rare.) if you don't want to. Lkewise, I NEVER think about geology when doing maps. I just don't want to learn about how mountains are formed by plate shear, subduction, etc. I map for fun not for realism.

BTW, I really like your ocean "texture". Can that be done fairly easy in GIMP? If so, I would love to see a quick walkthrough. I like the tossed glassy type look about it.

dorpond
09-10-2008, 11:44 AM
Since we are on the topic of rivers, are there any discussions, tutorials, theories, writeups, etc, on rivers or the making of rivers? I have never studied them before and am very curious how they actually work.

For example, do all rivers eventually flow to the ocean or dont they at all?

Perhaps this could spark an interesting discussion or future workshops, if they don't already exist here.

dorpond
09-10-2008, 12:48 PM
yeah, I agree with everything you stated jfrazierjr. when I look at the map full scale, it even looks more blurry than I like aslo. I will see what I can do about tweaking it throughout the week. Thanks for the comments and advice.

As far as the water, I actually used a ton of Photoshop filters, made several changes to contrasts, brightnesses, levels, ran more filters. I don't really have a method when I make maps - I sort of throw paint on the canvas and shake it up a bit until I like it.

These are some of the filters I used on the water:
- Ocean Ripple (used this 3 times with 3 different throughout the project)
- Paint Daubs
- Watercolor

jfrazierjr
09-10-2008, 02:30 PM
yeah, I agree with everything you stated jfrazierjr. when I look at the map full scale, it even looks more blurry than I like aslo. I will see what I can do about tweaking it throughout the week. Thanks for the comments and advice.

As far as the water, I actually used a ton of Photoshop filters, made several changes to contrasts, brightnesses, levels, ran more filters. I don't really have a method when I make maps - I sort of throw paint on the canvas and shake it up a bit until I like it.

These are some of the filters I used on the water:
- Ocean Ripple (used this 3 times with 3 different throughout the project)
- Paint Daubs
- Watercolor

Well, as I said, it looks really, really nice at about 1/3 size. Very detailed at that scale, it's just blown up when things start getting a bit dicey. I do like your swamp colors. Last night, I was working on the swamp and threw down some splatter brushes(Galaxy brush in GIMP), added some noise, and then bump mapped the whole thing. Turned out to be one suckie ass swamp, but one really nice set of over head tree tops... I rather liked the effect quite well! So now, I have some trees for my forest (if I can remember the settings used and can duplicate it) but still nada for swamps/marshes.


As for the filters, I may have to load up the copy of PS Elements that came with my tablet just to see what kind of filters it has available. Somethings I just can't do in GIMP as easily I might find a filter for in PSE.

dorpond
09-10-2008, 03:17 PM
Here is an interesting writeup on rivers:
http://www.fantasymaps.com/101/river.html

dorpond
09-10-2008, 03:57 PM
OK,

I tried again at some rivers. Let me know if it is still "illogical" :)

I also took a step back and looked at my original piece. I tweaked and played with it a bit.

Let me know what you think of this version. Better? Worse?

### Latest WIP ###

delgondahntelius
09-10-2008, 03:58 PM
I too apologize dorpond, there was nothing intentionally cruel meant in anything I said. I have a rare disorder called "no tact" ... and has gotten me into quite a bit of trouble before. So, I'm sorry if anything I said offended you.

Since you've had a deep and long conversation about rivers, I should mention that RobA has been coined as our (un)official river police... he's got a thing about gravity defying and forking rivers in the wrong direction... so much so that now many regulars here in the community point out 'river infractions' .... all of which is meant in light hearted jest.

I personally don't care which way a river forks... as long as the map looks good... which yours does. In fact, We'd like to see more of your maps around here, not just in the contests :D

delgondahntelius
09-10-2008, 04:08 PM
OK,

I tried again at some rivers. Let me know if it is still "illogical" :)

I also took a step back and looked at my original piece. I tweaked and played with it a bit.

Let me know what you think of this version. Better? Worse?


I like that one a lot. Rivers look great, love the swamp areas you made for it. I like this one better than the first :D

Ascension
09-10-2008, 05:09 PM
I have to add my apologies as well as I was blunt and not helpful. It was meant as a jest as I assumed you might be "in on the joke". At any rate, these rivers are good. The way I approach drawing rivers is to think of lightning bolts...all jaggy and squiggly and forking...with the myriad small forks up in the mountains and the main big bolt being near the coast...essentially think of the storm cloud as the ocean and the bolt progresses towards the ground snaking and forking to think of the ground as the mountains. I hope this bit is helpful :)

Midgardsormr
09-10-2008, 07:06 PM
Since we are on the topic of rivers, are there any discussions, tutorials, theories, writeups, etc, on rivers or the making of rivers? I have never studied them before and am very curious how they actually work.


There are discussions about rivers and how they behave scattered throughout a number of threads here, but no single thread that tackles that subject thoroughly. Sounds like it's high time we had one. I'll start it in the tutorials forum. My expertise is far from comprehensive, so I'll hope that others will chime in and offer some instruction, as well.

Here's the thread: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=31583#post31583

dorpond
09-11-2008, 10:14 AM
Everything is cool guys! Obviously there was a misunderstanding.
The problem is that I am not here enough to know that your tone and lingo is just being fun, sarcastic, and jokingly.
All cool.

So, I just didn't like my mountains so I tried again. I also did a ton of other stuff over the whole map but little stuff that probably won't even be noticable at a glance.

Anyway, still chipping away!

Please let me know if this is getting better or worse.. Sometimes if we chip too much, that can be a bad thing too!

### Latest WIP ###

NeonKnight
09-11-2008, 11:25 AM
Durn :(

Everyone is changing features on their maps I actually like ;)

Dorpond. I loved your mountains. For me, if I can look at the thumbnail and see most features it is a GOOD map, If I need to open the map to it's full size to determine 'gross' features (and by gross I mean large, not disgusting ;)) I get sad.

Again, my opinion only.

dorpond
09-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the comment NeonKnight!
I changed it because the other two maps felt a bit unrealistic to me. The mountains felt too white so I toned them down. I thought it was an improvement but now after reading what you said, I am uncertain.. Hmmmm, what am I to do? LOL

Anyone else have any comments on the latest WIP?

dorpond
09-11-2008, 04:06 PM
How is this NeonNight? Is this better? I spent around an hour and tried to define the mountains even further with lighting and shadowing (dodge and burn).

I think compared to the original piece, the detail at 100% is much better and that is what I have been struggling to accomplish. Nonetheless, please let me know what you think now. Thanks!

### Latest WIP ###

Ascension
09-11-2008, 05:00 PM
These mountains looks much better than in the previous image since it gives a sense of height to them and I really like the trees, its like I can almost see every leaf and that's pretty cool.

delgondahntelius
09-11-2008, 05:14 PM
oh yeah... love whats going on there with your map dorpond... mountains look great!

Steel General
09-12-2008, 08:36 AM
I agree, love the mountains and the forests.

If I had to "pick" on something and it's not a big deal really...I think the ocean/water is to dark. But again that's just me and I tend to keep my water lighter than most.

dorpond
09-12-2008, 02:16 PM
How is this Steel General?

### Latest WIP ###

dorpond
09-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Man, I am uncertain which is better as I look at the thumbnails; the darker ocean or the lighter... Man, eyes go so buggy after a while, don't they? LOL

Ascension
09-12-2008, 04:28 PM
I'd say, pick whichever you like but I'd cast my vote for the darker water...I just seem to have this need for everything to be dark, like my coffee...but I'm probably the only one :) Looks good either way really.

Steel General
09-12-2008, 05:12 PM
While I prefer the lighter colored water (which does look good by the way), the decision is ultimately yours. So go with whatever one you feel is better.

Redrobes
09-13-2008, 07:52 AM
Dorpond, this is looking well cool.

Midgardsormr
09-13-2008, 01:11 PM
I like both versions of the water, but they each give the map a different atmosphere. The darker one makes for a more brooding feel; the land is dangerous and wild. The lighter one gives me a sense of commerce and high adventure.

Either way, it's rather blurry at full resolution, but the thumbnail looks fantastic. I suggest that once you finish it up, you save it out as a somewhat smaller image.

Those mountains are gorgeous! The shading really improved them.

mmmmmpig
09-25-2008, 02:32 AM
I love the consistency of texture that you have going on here. Nice map.

dorpond
09-25-2008, 12:45 PM
Well, I am not sure if my polishing did any polishing but I thought I would update one last time.

Thank you all - it was fun! Good luck to all of you who did a fantastic job this go-round! You are all masters at your art!

### Latest WIP ###