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View Full Version : October Entry: Something Swampish this way comes



mmmmmpig
10-07-2008, 03:22 PM
Well, I am wading into this one earlier than last time. The idea I had was making this a swamp/marsh area where most of the commerce and daily life takes place on planking that one would find in a warf. The areas had no growth plan so as people added onto the walkway/pier system the settlement haphazardly grew. It will be fun for me (and I hope all who are watching) to see this as it progresses.

Anyway... here we go again.

### Latest WIP ###

mmmmmpig
10-09-2008, 03:05 PM
What I have done so far. I really need to smurf out a good way of getting the water to look correct.

### Latest WIP ###

Steel General
10-09-2008, 03:15 PM
I think the water looks good, I'm guessing its kind of slow moving?

mmmmmpig
10-09-2008, 03:22 PM
SG, the water is basically stagnant. the problem is that is seems a bit light in color... it needs something...

waldronate
10-09-2008, 03:30 PM
It needs alligators!

mmmmmpig
10-09-2008, 03:31 PM
It needs alligators!


ummm.... everything needs alligators!

mmmmmpig
10-09-2008, 04:56 PM
tweaked the water... better? worse?

I think it is better becaus ethe water is more even in color and a bit more foreboding in look

### Latest WIP ###

jfrazierjr
10-09-2008, 05:02 PM
I like the original a bit more. I think my big thing with the water is the white haze which to me seems more like a bit of fog and that does not blend in my brain very well with this type of swamp, at least not with the clearly defined wooden structures....

Redrobes
10-09-2008, 06:16 PM
I like either. I like the planking a lot tho. Its a good idea and will be interesting to see where it ends up. This is one where you don't get a good idea of the image from looking at a small version of it - people, you gotta click through to the image here :)

Torq
10-09-2008, 06:29 PM
I love this one. Great work MMMMMM I think the water lloks very cool, murky and grim. Planks are cool too. Would be an interesting experiment to bumpmap the planks layer with itself. Might give it even more of a 3d look.

Torq

Steel General
10-09-2008, 07:09 PM
I agree w/JFJr I think it's the white haze that detracts from it (if anything does).

As another idea, maybe you could add some floating debris or dead fish or something.

Ascension
10-09-2008, 08:56 PM
I'm with SG, I was thinking deadfalls, clumps, trees, weeds, cattails, leaves, sticks, water ripples, etc. If this place is built on stilts then the white glow would not be needed to define the land areas so I would go over the land parts and shade them or something. If the place is built atop clumps of land they need to be extended out beyond the wooden walkways. I think it's pretty good I'm just wearing my tweaking hat tonight cuz I don't feel like wearing my doing hat :) Keep going, shaping up nicely.

mmmmmpig
10-10-2008, 12:23 AM
What I am hearing is that the water is not quite working. Currently it is 2 different pattern fills overlaid on each other with a gradient painted on them to add depth. When I get to my work PC tomorrow I will remove the pattern fill with the white bubblies along the edges of the water areas and maybe reverse the gradient...

thanks for the crits fellas!

Torq
10-10-2008, 12:54 AM
I find that a most effective technique for water is to use 3 layers. Top one is your water surface (your one is excellent I think) and the bottom is something that will be the bottom of the water (you wont see much of it but it should just be hinted at to sell the depth illusion). Between the two layers apply a third layer that is just a black to transparent gradient reflecting the relative depths of different parts of the water with black being the deepest. Then just play with the opacity of the two top layers until you get what you are looking for.

Torq

Jkaen
10-10-2008, 03:40 AM
With the water effect, are they meant to be distinct seperate pools, or is the planking meant to be over a single mass of water. If the later I don't understand why you would have the edge effects on each pool

mmmmmpig
10-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Reworked the water a bit and added some texture to the planking.

Thanks everyone, for all the input, I am definitely taking it to heart. This is my first non-regional/world/city level map soo... I am soaking up all the comments that I can get.

I have decided to go with a steam-punk kind of turn 1880's time frame so I am now making the roofs of the buildings into corrugated metal.

After I have the buildings done it will be time to add some interesting stuff.

Once the intersting stuff is added, then comes the vegatation.... that is going ot be tricky.

### Latest WIP ###

Ascension
10-10-2008, 04:44 PM
Wood looks awesome, metal looks awesome. Might want a touch of greenish-blue in the gray water and a darker green on the moss...but then I always like darker so make of that what you will :) I do like the clumpy bits and sticks though, maybe a few more? I dunno. Shaping up very nicely though.

mmmmmpig
10-10-2008, 11:43 PM
Ascension:
I agree that something is still "off" on the water. I will need to take my thumb drive into work so I can port this thing home to tweak. That won't be until Monday night then :(

Sagenlicht
10-11-2008, 05:19 AM
ummm.... everything needs alligators!


Hmm I think it needs more cowbell? Sorry couldnt resist :)

On a more serious note, its great to watch the development of this map. Keep it up :)

NeonKnight
10-11-2008, 02:13 PM
Man I feel all feverish just looking at that brackish water ;)

mmmmmpig
10-13-2008, 02:59 PM
latest additions

I need to rotate the circular building a touch to get rid of the tangents going on with its roof work.

Things left to do:
1. Other buildings
2. foliage, a good swap has some trees in it
3. visual interest (I have some nice ideas for that)
3a. Backstory to accompany the kicking visual interest
4. win?
5. yes, win.
6. good, because I would really like to win

### Latest WIP ###

jfrazierjr
10-13-2008, 03:35 PM
I have to say that I really like where you are going with this map. The semi random scrap boards thrown together is a cool concept. Might be even better if you could have some boards of different textures in addition, but not sure how easy that would be to pull off.

The only thing throwing me off so far is still the water color on the left with the white haze effect. Perhaps it's just me, but that just looks odd to my eyes for what i would think would be a fetid swamp town type thing.

mmmmmpig
10-13-2008, 04:03 PM
There is something a bit off with the water, I completely agree, but I am not sure that it has to do with the white-ish, haze like effect that you and others have mentioned. The whitish haze is actually the color of the swamp water in daylight conditions.

The pattern fill that I am using for the swamp water is this one, which has a rather predominant white undertone to it. Opaque brackish water reflects most of its light. I think what will be necessary to make the water look "correct" is to add trees and visual interest stuff and, more importantly, their shadows.

Keep the comments coming. I really do take each comment to heart.

mmmmmpig
10-13-2008, 04:15 PM
I wold like to point out that my last post seemed to come off waaaaay more defensive and sarcastic than I actually feel, so please keep that in mind when reading it. :P

jfrazierjr
10-13-2008, 04:56 PM
I wold like to point out that my last post seemed to come off waaaaay more defensive and sarcastic than I actually feel, so please keep that in mind when reading it. :P

No worries mate. It's just not a texture I particularly like. It IS your map though, so keep what you like. I know not everyone likes my mapping style, and I am perfectly content with this...

Also, as you say, perhaps later with more visual interest stuff, that white haze part of the water will kind of "fade" into background. I was not going to say this originally, but what the hell... I think it would be good if you had a different water texture and went for a nighttime view with some lanterns hung outside to make it a bit more spooky (it is October...) looking. Not sure how hard it would be to pull it off or if you want to take the time or effort, but I was thinking "how neat would this look at night time" just last night when I read the thread.

RobA
10-14-2008, 01:51 PM
It looks light, too, because of the reflection of the sky. Did you take the picture with a polarizing filter? If not, that would help (in the future, of course)....

Or just darken it up...
7077

-Rob A>

jfrazierjr
10-14-2008, 02:08 PM
It looks light, too, because of the reflection of the sky. Did you take the picture with a polarizing filter? If not, that would help (in the future, of course)....

Or just darken it up...
7077

-Rob A>


Oh yea.. now that looks nice and evil....

mmmmmpig
10-14-2008, 02:10 PM
Thanks RobA!

So here we go now with the latest and greatest

better, worse? same?



### Latest WIP ###

Jkaen
10-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Better, need to have it cover the 4 pools in the NE too though

jfrazierjr
10-14-2008, 02:15 PM
Thanks RobA!

So here we go now with the latest and greatest

better, worse? same?



### Latest WIP ###


Much better... though you probably need to replicate the effect to the water in the NE corner to make the whole thing spot on IMO.

Steel General
10-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Darker is better (at least in this case) :)

mmmmmpig
10-14-2008, 03:29 PM
Okay, let's try this one one for size

### Latest WIP ###

Jkaen
10-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Better yet again, but I think there is too much green coverage in those parts, I would find a bluer are of the image to use.

Oh and I am not convinced about the yellow buildings either ;)

Sagenlicht
10-15-2008, 04:07 AM
Here is another modified version of your swamp texture.

Not that I belive its better than RobA's but its different.

mmmmmpig
10-15-2008, 04:24 PM
Jkaen: The upper right corner will have some trees in it to cover most of the green. The land transition from crappy spongy morass to more stagnant open water when you go from upper right to lower left.

Sagenlicht: Thanks for the tile!

anyhoo, I feel like I am done with the buildings.

what is left?
1. Canvas textures for the tent areas I have outlined in the left top areas of the map
2. Adding trees and shrubs to the upper righthand corner
3. Adding some visual interest to the dock areas
4. Adding some visual interest to the open water areas
5. Re-shadow everything
6. Win?
7. Yes, Win
8. Goody, because I would like to win
9. Do a night version

### Latest WIP ###

Sagenlicht
10-17-2008, 07:25 PM
mmmmmpig you know I really thought a bit why I didnt find your map completly 'rounded up' and now I belive I know why.

I think the wooden runways (is this the correct word?) are way to clean for a swampy town. Especially if you compare them to your great roofs. Maybe you should consider to 'dirt them up a bit' if you didnt plan it allready?

Just my thoughts though and its still a great map :)

dragonwolf
10-19-2008, 06:15 PM
The buildings and planking are excellent. I'm not quite sure on the murky water. The black outline on the green moss/algae doesn't seem to work for me.

mmmmmpig
10-20-2008, 11:40 PM
sagenlicht: I do plan on weathering the planking some prior to the final, but bthat is a good catch nonetheless

dragonwolf: that was bothering me as well

what is left?
1. Adding some visual interest to the dock areas
2. Adding some visual interest to the open water areas
3. Re-shadow everything
4. Win?
5. Yes, Win
6. Goody, because I would like to win
7. Do a night version?

### Latest WIP ###

Lord
10-20-2008, 11:54 PM
I am not too fond of the texture for the swamp, I can clearly see the rpeating texturizer oging on and it looks a bit like dry paint. When i think swamp, i think ripples and bubbles from swamp gas and other creatures. the water just does not look wet. The planks and tin are good except there are no nails anywhere. And as sagenlicht said, distress, distress, distress.. is my favorite part of any creation... the destruction!

Aera Lure
10-21-2008, 10:32 AM
What it is about the swamp for me is that it looks too zoomed in compared to the buildings. It looks like we are looking closely at the swamp and its at a different scale than the planking etc. I sort of find myself wishing to zoom it out, but then its texture might pose a problem.

meleeguy
10-21-2008, 11:46 AM
Nice use of positive and negative spaces!

dragonwolf
10-21-2008, 12:29 PM
I made a couple new tiles you can try. They are each seamless and also seamless with each other. If you need them bigger or need more tiles just let me know.

mmmmmpig
10-22-2008, 01:31 AM
Lord: yeah the water has been a thorn in my side this entire challenge

Aera Lure: you got that right

Meleeguy: Thanks, I wanted to create multiple levels with the shapes provided

Dragonwolf: Thanks for the tiles! I had already started working on the water though soo...

anyhoo:

what is left?
1. Adding more visual interest to the dock areas
2. Adding more visual interest to the open water areas
3. Win?
4. Yes, Win
5. Goody, because I would like to win
6. Do a night version?

Torq
10-22-2008, 05:27 AM
I think your map is looking very cool. The dead spider is fantastic. Is it a tavern of some kind? Very "Savage Worlds" and pulp looking. Completely cool in my view. I know you are using quite a saturated palette and that its deliberate and suits the style, but may be try a little less red/orange for the floor planks. I think this would accentuate the buildings and features more if the wood were toned down to a more "natural" colour.

Torq

mmmmmpig
10-23-2008, 01:31 AM
Torq: you were money on the too yellow/orange on the planks

What is left?


1. Adding more visual interest to the dock areas
2. Adding more visual interest to the open water areas
3. Win?
4. Yes, Win
5. Goody, because I would like to win
6. Do a night version?

at this rate I will be lucky to get finished with what I am thinking of doing in time.

### Latest WIP ###

jfrazierjr
10-23-2008, 01:16 PM
You need something on your buildings where the two(or more )roof textures meet. I would chunk down some type of line (black/grey, perhaps even very slightly varying widths for gaps between boards) to indicate where one board ends and another one starts. Your round building has this effect(mostly), and I think this looks much better.

Not really digging the whiteness of most of the roofs...Looks a bit to glowy, and contrasts to much with the plank color IMO.

Good job on the planks making them darker and more worn. I think the scratches are two regular. It looks like you used the dodge tool, but perhaps to much or the wrong setting.

The round building... is that two separate rooflines, the inner one higher than the other? If so, give it a bit of outer glow to make it seem like it's on a different level and distinct from the lower part. Ditto the square building below it....

The trees have a dark outline around them that is distracting for such nice looking trees. Perhaps if it was blurred outward from the treeline, it would be a lot less distracting to the eye when zoomed in.

Also most of the buildings have a what I would think is a too think border around the edges. Perhaps making the outline a bit smaller and adding an outter glow would help.

Over all, very nice map. I am pretty sure this is one I will vote for, but there are a few things I think you can do to make this even better.


BTW, are these planks all meant to be wider than most grown men? Heh.. must be some massive trees and some really good saws!

mmmmmpig
10-23-2008, 03:00 PM
jfrazierjr: There is sooth in what you say... I shall ponder solutions to some of these

jfrazierjr
10-23-2008, 04:17 PM
jfrazierjr: There is sooth in what you say... I shall ponder solutions to some of these


You could call it uncouth even... but like I said, those are the things my eye pick up when zoomed in...

mmmmmpig
10-24-2008, 02:21 AM
because I seem to be updating this just about daily...

I addressed the overly wide planking, and have roughed out where the outdoor seating will be for the Dead Spider bar.

What is left?

1. Adding more visual interest to the dock areas
2. Adding more visual interest to the open water areas
3. Win?
4. Yes, Win
5. Goody, because I would like to win
6. Do a night version?

### Latest WIP ###

StillCypher
10-24-2008, 04:15 AM
Aside from those chairs and tables looking painted on, this is looking really good!

mmmmmpig
10-24-2008, 11:16 AM
Aside from those chairs and tables looking painted on, this is looking really good!

at the moment, the table and chairs are just painted on :D

Antony
10-24-2008, 03:56 PM
Also has a nice run down feel to it.

ravells
10-24-2008, 04:00 PM
I love the spider! An the corrogated tin roofs are really lovely too. Looks like a hell of a lot of work has gone into this and it shows.

jfrazierjr
10-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Digging the changes to the planks.

Sigurd
10-24-2008, 06:04 PM
Very cool. I like your roofs.

How do you do them?


Sigurd

delgondahntelius
10-24-2008, 08:24 PM
M⁵pig, Great stuff.... it actually reminds me of a town I drew out by hand "Bogspur" I believe was the name of it.... situated in the Greyhawk region of the Yeomanry. I ran it on PBP board.... some people may have heard of it... its still around CORE Greyhawk.... hadn't been over there in a while.. maybe i need to go drop in and say BOOO

mmmmmpig
10-25-2008, 03:07 AM
and here is the final.

If I feel up to it, tomorrow night I will write something up about the piece

I suggest that if you are interested in the map you should click on it and look at the detail.... there is lots and lots of detail.

### Latest WIP ###

jfrazierjr
10-25-2008, 11:54 AM
and here is the final.

If I feel up to it, tomorrow night I will write something up about the piece

I suggest that if you are interested in the map you should click on it and look at the detail.... there is lots and lots of detail.



Those trees ROCK on toast! I am however sad to see that you did not put some lines on the roof to break up the textures where the natural pitch changes should be. In any event, you will still get one of my votes.

mmmmmpig
10-25-2008, 02:40 PM
Those trees ROCK on toast! I am however sad to see that you did not put some lines on the roof to break up the textures where the natural pitch changes should be. In any event, you will still get one of my votes.

Sweet Jebus, Man! There are only sooo many hours in the day! I figured the airboat and the flotsam and jetsam was a bit more necessary to finish up the piece :D

jfrazierjr
10-25-2008, 02:54 PM
Sweet Jebus, Man! There are only sooo many hours in the day! I figured the airboat and the flotsam and jetsam was a bit more necessary to finish up the piece :D


Bah.. just sleep less...:P

jezelf
10-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Great angle on the challenge. Nice final image - love the details.

Redrobes
10-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Looks really great.

My thumbs script will have some problem here because it does not currently do multi page threads. I have been too lazy to fix it... So I will have to update your entry by hand. Will do that shortly but not tonight I am afraid.

mmmmmpig
10-25-2008, 08:35 PM
RR,

no worries!