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Galrion
11-12-2008, 03:12 AM
-Here's my dilemma. After taking on this project myself and scrapping more then three maps (one of which was "finished") I've given up on myself and am no looking to people that know what they are doing when it comes to cartography.

Currently, I am have a writing project that's solely to entertain me. The creation of a map for the continent this project takes place on has become my biggest road block to date. What I'm looking for is a land mass of equal or greater size to the US (no resemblance needed.)

As it is currently I only need the land mass and land features; no names or places yet, but I'll want to be able to keep in touch with the artist so that they can be added at a later date.

As a warning... I'm picky as hell, but I'm more than willing to pay through the nose for you to put up with me. I'll keep an eye out for any interest.

Thanks in advance.

Devon

joćo paulo
11-12-2008, 07:22 AM
:compass:What kind of map you want? Done by hand or more realistic.

Steel General
11-12-2008, 07:56 AM
As Joao Paulo said a little more detail on the kind of map you prefer would be helpful...

hand-drawn or software-generated, b&w or color, map size, etc. the more info you can provide the better.

I would also suggest you look thru the Finished & WIP map forums you may find something that is already done, or close to completion that suits your needs.

Sigurd
11-12-2008, 03:24 PM
Without a target its very hard to do anything.

Why don't you look at the many other maps on the site (and elsewhere) and narrow down what you're looking for. If this is just your own use you may find something you can adapt.

Anything someone else makes will require some adaptation.


Sigurd

Redrobes
11-12-2008, 08:35 PM
Heres a few quickie pointers. Here is a link to the keyword index (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/Indexes/CGuild_Keyword_Index.htm) where you can go down to World and get a whole load of links to peoples worlds.

Also there is out Collaborative World Building Project where we build a world combined where people have done tiles in a region. Click here for a map of the region (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/ThinkBig/Region/MappedTiles.png) and if you like any of the tiles then you can look up who did them and get in touch with them and ask if they might like to do your map - or at least we know what style you like.

The links to the tiles are here (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/Indexes/CWBP_Index.htm). They are numbered a bit weird but generally in a 5x5 tile with the right 6th row doing the rest of them.

Galrion
11-12-2008, 08:43 PM
Really the map I want now could be CG or hand drawn colored or otherwise. The size on the otherhand... I'd like to take it to a landscape printer once finished for a 6 foot rendition. This is for a fantasy novel project that takes place in a medieval period and is going to be the reference map for the writing. That said, CG might be the easiest style for someone to do this in.

As to something that's already done... In the long run I may exercise the option to get it published and make money off of it. Thus I feel it is a must that the map is original and the artist is paid.

After this was posted I was contacted, so I am speaking with someone currently, but nothing is set yet. So... if you have interest

Redrobes
11-12-2008, 08:51 PM
Is that 6ft with fine detail in it - like an atlas (hand drawn shapes and lines) or a satellite photo (computer rendered landscape looking realistic) ? I.e. is it a simple(ish) map that needs to be blown up to 6ft and still print well or does the original need to have 6 feet of detailed stuff in it like a complete campaign world at high res ?

Galrion
11-12-2008, 09:18 PM
Mostly I'm looking for lay of the land. Detailed enough to give me the generals, mountains, rivers, lakes, highlands, lowlands...

I looked through list you gave: http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/Indexes/CWBP_Index.htm

And came up with these three being my favored:

Torq's Groam: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1774

Jezelf's Mythkhardia: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2400

And Redrobes' Thrubmorton Fens: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1805

All of these I liked immensely.

Redrobes
11-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Oh right :!:

So something rendered or realistic. Well definitely get in touch with Jezelf and Torq too but I can say that I would be interested - at least in doing the terrain map before putting the cities and stuff on top. I write a terrain generator designed for large maps so with a realistic map in mind it should be no problem. Mega size is ok too - you don't want to know how big were aiming to do Middle Earth using it. The only real caveat is that it uses a physics engine and fluid dynamics calculations to determine where rivers go. Its hard to make it put them exactly where you want them, they will follow where the terrain reckons that they should flow. We can add a hill to move it a bit but its not like drawing it specifically exactly where you think it must flow etc. You get the idea.

If you look at this thread of Neons world, I made him a version using it to give you some comparison to other similar maps. My post is #21
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1421

If you dont mind what shape it is as long as its realistic then its perfect for you.

Galrion
11-13-2008, 05:03 AM
The download was unavailable, but just the things I have seen, I'm impressed.

Shape... doesn't matter so much, but land mass does. I'm looking to map out a large continent and its surroundings. Something in the whereabouts of North America with a wide possible range of climates.

If you think its doable for you, I like your work, When can we start?

Redrobes
11-13-2008, 09:44 AM
Right, cool - well lets get started then.

Well to start with lets get the basic shape. If you go here :-
http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/viewingdale.pl?category=instant_islands
and download the Instant Islands app then it allows you to keep pressing next, next, next until you come across a continent that you like.

If you don't want polar ice caps then put in polar height -1000 and polar height bias 100. If you don't want it to wrap the world then put in a zero into Horz Wrap. It defaults to 45% randomness. Lower is more rounded shapes like Africa, higher is very crinkly like Norway.

Crucially, in the top right is the Random Number Key. Can you find something that you like, tell me all the settings including the random number key or just screen grab it and post up. Then say which bit of the map you would like as the bit to model. I thought this one looked nice and a lot like Europe...

Oh yes, it only updates the map on 'next' and 'prev' so if you type these numbers in the image then you might have to go next followed by 'prev' to see it. Or you can type in key 1121 (instead of 1122) and then stab next to see it.

Also, with same settings as the image below, look at random number keys: 1154, 1201, 1262, 1339, 1350, 1357, 1371, 1447, 1699, 1729 any of these might be good.

It's up to you whether you want some of your land going off the edge of one or more sides or to have it sorrounded by sea. You dont have to use all of the map image window, you can pick one bit of it out. The numbes above have islands which might have a kind of America feel about them.

Galrion
11-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Downloaded it. After going through about 100 files I decided to ask if it is at all possible to use something like....

http://www.bin.sh/gaming/tools/world.cgi

If not I'll keep digging.

Redrobes
11-13-2008, 01:41 PM
As well as creating the simple color map, the program generates a height map which can be used as a starting point for the modeling. The height map is refined by a big app which does erosion, climate modeling, river prediction and some guesses at the amount of vegetation.

Were any of these :-
1154, 1201, 1262, 1339, 1350, 1357, 1371, 1447, 1699, 1729
any good tho ?

Galrion
11-13-2008, 02:01 PM
I actually really like 1351. Is there a way you can complete the land masses that go off the edges?

First.. here are the settings:

Size: 1000
Key: 1351
Random: 50
pointy: 9
wrap: 0
Polar: -1000
Polar hgt: 80

The only thing I would ask changed to it (aside from the edges filled in) would be the thin bit of land connecting the two land masses. Possible to remove it and make two separate land masses?

Redrobes
11-13-2008, 02:30 PM
Ok with this ? I can change almost anything on it easily. If you are happy then we need to know where all the mountain ranges will be. If you could draw rough lines in thick red where you think they ought to be then ill make sure they get there. Also have a think about where you want jungle, deserts, plains, wetlands, volcanic regions and hills etc and mark up anything that I ought to make sure gets in there. Do you want a typical north and south ice caps type thing or something a little different or less severe.

Galrion
11-13-2008, 08:45 PM
I like it.

And my comp died. I currently have no program other than paint at my disposal. I've also lost spell check for web apps in this so expect my spelling to spiral to near unreadable.

Now... the mountains. In all my personal projects this is the step the killed me. In all of my attempts my mountains were oftain to large and ended up consuming the majority of the land mass making it seem far smaller than it should have. I'm more then willing to trust you with them, if at all possible.

Redrobes
11-14-2008, 06:02 AM
Before I get really started on this then I need to know a bit more about the target. The 6ft poster is presumably a 6ftx4ft color poster which could be vertical or horizontal. The map as it stands is square so do you want me to stretch it into portrait (vertical) or landscape (horizontal). If your not sure ill go landscape as generally that's how world atlas posters are done.

I guess ill choose where to put some mountains then. Also, shall I put in a jungle and desert and stuff and mix up the climates over different areas in general resemblance to the US.

Galrion
11-14-2008, 12:58 PM
i would actually say portrain for this, becaus this is just a portion of the entire world.

And i wand some part of the continent to be on the equater... i'm almost thinking southern areagiving the southern most tip to tropics.

Desert, certainly. not to much, but i don't want it overly controlled.

and thent he climats, yes please. :D

Redrobes
11-14-2008, 01:04 PM
Ok, ill trim off a little more left and right and sqish it a bit in the horizontal and make it a 4ft wide by 6ft deep target then. So furthest south point like tropics - jungle and such and northern going up to cold and icy areas with equator more than half way down - maybe 2/3 or so where it will be pretty hot there and leave the bulk of the landmass for Florida to Canada type climates. Southern islands being usual balmy tropical stuff etc.

Galrion
11-14-2008, 01:41 PM
sounds good to me.

Redrobes
11-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Just a little WIP. Trying to get the 3D terrain about right before I embark on writing a big script to process and render it.

I have added several mountain ranges and filled in the sea holes in the middle of the continent. We would expect that lakes would form there anyway but by filling them in the water should flow out and onwards to the sea somehow.

The three big prongs at the top will probably get iced over and the bottom one will be jungle. The one looking like Italy / Sicily will have the climate of Florida. Technically the desert ought to be in a region above florida on the right side of the mountain range - assuming that this world spins in the direction ours does. That would be a bit like Nevada and Death Valley.

Still ok with it ? We ought to have a chat about the commercial side of things too. I'll PM you at some point.

Galrion
11-15-2008, 05:16 PM
I like it. I'm curious on the scale? Kilometers or miles? Whats the distance from top to bottom and east coast to west coast?

And yeah, PM me whenever. :D

Redrobes
11-15-2008, 05:57 PM
Well its a bit scaleless at this point. Image below is the target size and approx climate for it where its aligned so top is North tho. I.e. the big island on the left is also about US climate.

Redrobes
11-17-2008, 03:10 PM
My PC has stopped chuggin after hours of rattling away at fluid flow. This is to ensure that water on the map will probably go to the sea somehow. There are some spots where it will form lakes. Mainly in the middle where we want the desert so that will be fine. Theres some more areas where we will get small lakes and a few big inland seas. I think these seas will be big enough that they will equalize the water coming in to evaporation in the long run.

I had better start tagging the images with a copyright notice too.
(c) Viewing Ltd - All rights reserved I am afraid !

Galrion
11-17-2008, 08:07 PM
Wow... it's looking beautiful.

ravells
11-17-2008, 08:28 PM
Redrobes, do a search on the forums for 'forced perspective' which RobA wrote about awhile back. It will really improve the look of your map.

Redrobes
11-17-2008, 10:24 PM
I dont know about the forced perspective. Its not my bag personally as I like to zoom into bits and bring them up ready with more detail. You can only do that on a top down map.

I have added the temperatire and turned the taps on. Ran it for ages and then turned the taps off again and ran it a bit more. So you should be able to see where the water will pool and flow. Its a bit fake in the desert. I would expect that to dry up over time. I need to run it longer with the taps off.

What might be interesting tho is that you have a cirque where the red dot it. Thats a circle of hills enclosing the water run off so it pours out to the south. Now since I have a desert there it might form an unusual feature where the river goes into the desert and dries up. It might turn left and go down into the sea too. I dont know - I could force it but ill leave it to run its course as it sees fit.

Some of the smaller pools will dry up a little but the big ones are likely to stay unless you want shot of them. Say now because I can't drain them later as we will be trickling the water over it instead of a great lake emptying in a big whoosh taking all the terrain to the sea with it.

(c) Viewing Ltd - all rights reserved

Galrion
11-17-2008, 11:19 PM
i'm liking it a -lot- RR. I would say clear up some of the lakes. not all, but currently its looking like a lot of big lakes would form (size comparison makes some of those bigger than some states.) Aside from the overabundence of lakes coming on, its looking awesome.

The red dot area i like as well. And if you could get a disapearing river... I'd love it. but don't worry about trying for it. if it happens, great, if not, don't overexhert yourself going into it..

ravells
11-18-2008, 07:27 PM
I dont know about the forced perspective. Its not my bag personally as I like to zoom into bits and bring them up ready with more detail. You can only do that on a top down map.



(c) Viewing Ltd - all rights reserved

Ah sorry, my mistake, it was awhile since I'd read it and thought that it would allow the whole of your map in perspective view to take up all four corners without becoming distorted.

Redrobes
11-19-2008, 01:11 PM
Its been chugging and its done a bit more. I had some problems getting rid of the lakes and so went back a step and then forward again. So its worked on the water some more and its now finished a big run whittling the rivers down.

Getting near the end of the easy bit but will have to start the big script shortly to get it scaled up to the big res.

(c) Viewing Ltd 2008

Redrobes
11-19-2008, 05:29 PM
Its been chugging some more, this time double size - its up to 3000x4000 now so the next stage is to break this up and render it in 16th's which is going to be well slow so its here that the climate params have to be right. To check that I pushed this version through the texturer just to check and I think its alright. Maybe the desert could be a bit sandier colored but thats easy to fix later in the texture settings.

Were a bit beyond the point of change now. Its too slow to go back now so I hope this next WIP gives an impression of the final. Its just scaling up now.

Galrion
11-20-2008, 02:02 PM
Its looking good. I like how its turning out a lot, so what your are doing is defiantly going in the right direction. I'm quite impressed really.Keep up the good work.

Redrobes
11-23-2008, 03:10 PM
A lot of good and a tiny bit of bad news. The script has been written and it was tested and ran through and produced a map. Then I upped the amount of processing and let it have the full shot at it. Well the good news is that it ran to the end and completed and gave me a 12Kx16K map and the bad news is that I got a parameter wrong and its killed the cliffs. So heres some WIP's. The first is what the whole map looks like which has been reduced from the big one. The second one is a close up of a small section. There is the problem where the cliffs slope off into the sea and second is that theres a lot of these spots of water in places. I found the bit code making them. A tiny error but after 160,000 iterations it made a difference. I have altered that bit of code but its already in the last stage so i'll have to fix these up at the end.

I made 7 changes to my app based on this map. A smallish bug, a couple of changes to make things better and a new feature.

I tried to resample the final and PaintShopPro barfed. I downloaded Gimp and it did it alright but in the end I used GTS to do that job. I thought that Gimp was x64 by now. They say that its supposed to be released this month x64. I see its now multi core too so ill probably change to Gimp in the next few months now.

One thing I was pleased at is that all my GTS tools ran to perfection. All the errors were stuff it was supposed to do but not how I wanted it. No crashes or barfs at all and this is a pretty big map.

Anyway - it will be a few more days. I need another 24hr run with different parameters and this time, ill be checking the 3D view instead of looking just at the color renders as it does it.

(c) Viewing Ltd 2008 - all rights reserved.

Redrobes
11-24-2008, 10:54 PM
There - your map is done. Both issues fixed and it looks very nice too.

Its a bit late to upload it so ill do that tomorrow eve. You also wanted it cut into sections I believe. Its 12Kx16K so do you want 6x8 sections of 2Kx2K pages with no overlap right ?

The full image is 280Mb and cut up I expect it will be just ever so slightly less. But I cant upload both versions at the same time and my upload is pretty slow compared to my download. Let me know what you want.

Redrobes
11-27-2008, 09:17 PM
Finished map at about 1/20th scale and 1:1.

(c) Viewing Ltd - All rights reserved

Gamerprinter
11-30-2008, 08:45 PM
Hey Redrobes, I'm trying to download the large versions of this map from the link you provided Galrion - but the link is apparently broken... :(

Please fix it.

GP

Redrobes
12-01-2008, 06:31 PM
I just checked and downloaded them from the web page and both were alright for me. The page says Top and Top but they link to top and bottom versions so the links are good if the page names are wrong. I'll PM you and sort it out. Do you have an FTP drop zone ?