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Gamerprinter
11-16-2008, 05:46 AM
In thinking about the Temple map contest at I.C.E. with this thread...

http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=38405#post38405

I was thinking about creating another, improved Temple of Sargos, my Sea God. So I started by making a map object of Sargos on a pedestal altar with many sea creatures surrounding him answering his call.

I've got a thing for water, so a channel with sea water flowing through it will definitely be part of the design.

Anyway here's a 200 ppi PNG 1.6 MB file of the Altar of Sargos. I'm wondering if this design is too complicated for a top-down.

I've also attached a 3/4 view to show you what it's supposed to look like.

GP

Sagenlicht
11-16-2008, 06:43 AM
I think its looking great GP :)

I cant see why it should be too 'complicated'.

Steel General
11-16-2008, 09:33 AM
I agree, very nice GP - though the crab does kind of "disappear" in the top-down. :)

Redrobes
11-16-2008, 10:32 AM
Its great but I think it is a bit too complicated. Can you move the dolphin and crab laterally away from the figure ? Perhaps have the dolphin angled away a bit ? Also, some good lighting/shading might make it more distinct. If its lit all uniform then its hard to make out shapes so easily. Also, cubic mapping showing through on the base - I'm sure you will fix that tho.

Edit -- actually thats a whale isnt it...

Sigurd
11-16-2008, 11:22 AM
Can you make the deity ride the dolphin\whale?

That's a well understood pose. If you can carry it off with 3d render magic it will feel authentic. Failing that I'd simplify, unless you can make sure a front view is available to sort of explain things. Are you actually expecting the dolphin to float in space? It doesn't look like its resting on anything.

Man things have really changed since the heyday of MS Paint :)


Sigurd

Rovingjack
11-16-2008, 01:30 PM
from the perspective of one who has worked at least a little in metals, All those thin parts and narrow parts and the negative space would be so hard to work out right.

If It was cast or forged in sections and then riveted or welded together then maybe (or if it's actually carved from another material and maybe cronzed over that). But Your best bet might be the lost wax casting which you get one shot at and you most definately would get a short shot from something of this size and this complex.

Gamerprinter
11-16-2008, 02:12 PM
Then I'll simply it.

@ RedRobes - angling the dolphin out was one idea, and the crab was a last miniute thought...

@ Sigurd - surely I can have Sargos riding the humpback whale, but I still want some of those other fishy elements in there. The dolphin is attached at a point on its side to just at Sargos's flank beneath his arm.

@ Rovingjack - I can certainly agree with you on the likelihood that ancient greeks couldn't make this work, but then this is fantasy. Either there is a wooden Sargos, or the riveted framework inside, beneath the bronze plating.

I think simplifying is the solution, here - this was just my first go at it!

GP

ravells
11-16-2008, 02:37 PM
Very nice modelling!!!

Gamerprinter
11-16-2008, 05:06 PM
OK, Sargos Altar - take two!

Now its just Sargos riding his whale with the trident in the other hand, with a different texture and mapping on the pedestal. Its slightly smaller this time (presumed actual size to be 30' x 40' at 30' tall, on a 6 foot pedestal).

I think less complicated worked better for the top-down view.

I've decided to create individual bronze statues of those other sea creatures, plus a few more, at key locations around the shrine - Sargos's avatars and minions.

Additionally, I wanted to create some illustrated floor tiles depicting fish, sea creatures, sea monsters, and perhaps ships - as inlays onto stone tile. I googled for "17th century sea creature illustrations" and got this hit from a Dutch tile company with photos of 17th painted tiles. Exactly what I was looking for (not everything I wanted, but a good start.)

Dutch Tile Illustrations (http://www.delfter-fliese.de/english_motive.htm)

I'm currently searching for illustrations I can convert to line art by tracing for some other sea creatures: octopus and squid. (some links look dead though...)

Japanese Sea Creature Art (http://www.pinktentacle.com/2006/12/edo-period-illustrations-by-kurimoto-tanshuu/)

I may have to create some of my own in a similar style to achieve the variety I need for my map design.

I want to make this grand!

Below is the altered altar! :P

GP

Sigurd
11-16-2008, 07:28 PM
To me, the riding pose looks more realistic and believable. If that matters.


Sigurd

Redrobes
11-16-2008, 08:15 PM
Personally I think riding the whale is easier to see whats going on faster. I think the tail needs to be looked at as the whale looks a bit Jumbo-esque to me.

I never really figured this out but there is a whole thing about "friday squid blogging". Do a google search and you get several hundred thousand entries for it. People seem to blog about squids on Friday. Yes - literally... :?: Should be no shortage of squid pics. Its another LOL CATS and Epic Fails and so on...

The idea of the sea feel to it is pretty unique tho. Should create interest.

Ascension
11-16-2008, 08:22 PM
I like the simplification...trying to cram in too many things jumbles it all up and requires the ISO view just to understand it, sort of like if ya have to explain a joke then it's not worth it. I like the ISO one but obviously it could not be used unless you were doing the whole thing in ISO style.

Gamerprinter
11-16-2008, 08:36 PM
Not that I wouldn't love to try another completely ISO map - that's another project down the road! I think to try and fit the contest requirements without reaching to far out in style, would be best and that means, to me, a top down map view at I.C.E. scale.

With a hex grid placed atop. I'm going to try a subtle hex grid with transparency and changes color over different regions as appropriate.

Thanks for the comments! I'll have to think about the whale tail down the road, I've got lots more to consider in this map design.

GP

Sagenlicht
11-17-2008, 07:04 AM
Hmm first of all something completly irrelevant :)

@RR
Aint a dolphin a whale as well?

@GP
Anyways, I might be the minority here but I actually dont like Sargos riding on the whale. Maybe simply because I imagine a god being bigger than a whale. Why not let him hold the whale in one hand (and ofc resize it, so its a bit smaller than it is atm) and the trident in the other and use the trident to point the way (or whatever you wanted to do with his arm pointing forward)?

Would simplify it and you could still add something to his foot for more details like your crab. In addition I would consider to differ the texture between Sargos and the other objects, just using one color for the dolphin and the trident. I think this would add to the importance to the god himself?

Just my thoughts :)

Gamerprinter
11-17-2008, 07:29 PM
Use which ever version you prefer, their both here for the taking.

I decided on using the simpler version and used it on my Sea God Map WIP, here... http://forums.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=38604#post38604

In fact, I'm almost completed with the design!

GP