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wally-d-feed
01-02-2009, 05:20 PM
Hey everybody!
finally i found some people on the internet that share the same hobby.

here is one of my maps:

http://fc37.deviantart.com/fs9/f/2006/003/9/8/harogard_karte.gif

Nomadic
01-02-2009, 05:31 PM
That is... incredibly awesome. I love it! The detail is so intricate and it really captures that old worn map look (though you do have a little weird strip on the right side that might need erasing). What did you make this with?

wally-d-feed
01-02-2009, 05:35 PM
i did this about two years ago. i drew this map with pencil and fine liner. then i scanned it and made i look older and added the letters with photoshop.

Gamerprinter
01-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Nice hand-drawn style, is it hand-drawn, the woods make it look like it is. Nice job! Have some REP!

At the same time, I was giving it my River Police Inspection, and I thought it passed. At the last second -- I'm looking at the river at the top of the map, if I am not mistaken, the river forks downstream, the northern part enters the forest of Finnhard and empties into the sea. The southern fork empties into a lake then a river takes that to the sea.

And I was going to flag you by, but I guess I'll have to give you a citation! ;)

Almost perfect, I think that's an issue, rivers never fork downstream and it looks like it is - need to fix that. Make it two different rivers one in the woods and one down south to the lake and the sea.

Still get REP, nice job.

Welcome to the Guild.

GP

wally-d-feed
01-02-2009, 05:51 PM
I can't quite follow you ... what exactly do you mean (I am not a native speaker)
don't take me wrong .... this is no defence but i want to see the issue :)

Nomadic
01-02-2009, 05:53 PM
Nice hand-drawn style, is it hand-drawn, the woods make it look like it is. Nice job! Have some REP!

At the same time, I was giving it my River Police Inspection, and I thought it passed. At the last second -- I'm looking at the river at the top of the map, if I am not mistaken, the river forks downstream, the northern part enters the forest of Finnhard and empties into the sea. The southern fork empties into a lake then a river takes that to the sea.

And I was going to flag you by, but I guess I'll have to give you a citation! ;)

Almost perfect, I think that's an issue, rivers never fork downstream and it looks like it is - need to fix that. Make it two different rivers one in the woods and one down south to the lake and the sea.

Still get REP, nice job.

Welcome to the Guild.

GP

Well they can but it's very rare and they join back up within a very short bit (so yea they can't flow out like they do there). On an unrelated note is that town called Lintwich? Cause that is an awesome name.



I can't quite follow you ... what exactly do you mean (I am not a native speaker)
don't take me wrong .... this is no defence but i want to see the issue


He means that rivers don't split into seperate rivers when flowing down (they only come together making larger single rivers out of multiple smaller rivers). The only exception like I said is when they branch around a high point but they then will join up again quickly (forming a large island in the river).

wally-d-feed
01-02-2009, 05:58 PM
I see ... the only exception from this would be river deltas ...
guess i failed the river policy then ...
I will do better on the next map ;)

All names on the map are constructed from old-high-german language

lintwich would be something like lindenwood

Nomadic
01-02-2009, 05:59 PM
I see ... the only exception from this would be river deltas ...
guess i failed the river policy then ...
I will do better on the next map ;)

Well a river delta is more like a sand bank. The river picks up sediment and soil in its flow and drops it downstream. With a delta the point where it enters the ocean becomes a primary drop point for this dirt so it builds up into little islands.

wally-d-feed
01-02-2009, 06:06 PM
What about the nile-delta? ... thats a little more than little islands
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/map_nile2nubia.JPG

Steel General
01-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Very nice, reminiscent of the maps from Lord of the Rings.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

I dub thee newly repped *bonk*

Hoel
01-02-2009, 06:08 PM
It's just a bigger sand bank. IIRC it's a swampy area and floods and changes course a lot.

Lovely map. The drawing is perfect... but...
I don't like the text glow, it takes away from the hand drawn bit.
I'd stroke it or just erase the land features to make room for the text. Best example I can come up with right now is Tolkien's map in The Hobbit
http://www.douglas.eckhart.btinternet.co.uk/maps-wilderland-01.jpg
The text in the Mirkwood is what i mean.
/Hoel -Trying to get some text into his maps too

Gamerprinter
01-02-2009, 06:21 PM
Please understand your map is excellent work.

The river issue is just a common misconception, and we want to make better maps just by avoiding geologic anomalies.

A river delta is the exception, this is caused when sediment (sand, mud, silt) being carried by the river's current slows down because the sea pushes back and the sediment falls. As the sand bank fills up it changes the rivers course causing many channels to form over years of deposits. The current will primarily stay in one main channel regardless of the branches formed in the past.

Islands occur on rivers where the river splits on either side, but generally reconnect a soon as possible. This is just a harder point the river could not erode away easier than channels to either side.

It is extremely rare for a river to fork downstream. One that forks hundreds (I don't know the scale of your map) of miles away and both reach the sea, is not possible geologically speaking. Physics will cause the water to flow the best way, and one would dry up, as the other becomes the course of the river.

I'm only trying to explain this so that you understand my point of view.

River issue aside, Great Map!

GP

Gandwarf
01-02-2009, 06:23 PM
I gave you some reputation, because I think this is a very nice map! Well done.

loongtim
01-02-2009, 11:47 PM
I really like this style. Look forward to seeing more of your work.

And have some more rep!

Asharad
01-03-2009, 02:24 AM
I gave you some reputation, because I think this is a very nice map! Well done.

Ditto that. I love it!

wally-d-feed
01-03-2009, 06:47 AM
I'm fine with criticism ... it helps making better maps
and now i see and absolutley understand the issue ... thank you for that.
and also thanks for the rep

Redrobes
01-03-2009, 09:04 AM
Your map has awesome style and its true that the rivers have a few problems but its a very common thing that people get wrong so much so that we have these river police now with their badge. We have talked endlessly about it but it crops up all the time. So ignoring that, your map has great color, font and naming. Its a great piece of work. So I will give rep too - that map has clocked up quite a bit for a just few days on the boards :)

Midgardsormr
01-03-2009, 11:28 AM
To accomplish that Mirkwood label in Photoshop on an already-drawn map, I think the most efficient way would be to select your text, expand the selection, and turn that selection into a mask on the map layer. You'll need another layer beneath with the paper color/texture since the map itself will become transparent.

NymTevlyn
01-04-2009, 09:11 PM
Nice hand-drawn style, is it hand-drawn, the woods make it look like it is. Nice job! Have some REP!

At the same time, I was giving it my River Police Inspection, and I thought it passed. At the last second -- I'm looking at the river at the top of the map, if I am not mistaken, the river forks downstream, the northern part enters the forest of Finnhard and empties into the sea. The southern fork empties into a lake then a river takes that to the sea.

And I was going to flag you by, but I guess I'll have to give you a citation! ;)

Almost perfect, I think that's an issue, rivers never fork downstream and it looks like it is - need to fix that. Make it two different rivers one in the woods and one down south to the lake and the sea.

Still get REP, nice job.

Welcome to the Guild.

GP

I keep seeing people mention rivers don't fork downstream...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SonghuaRiver_ASTER_20020401.jpg

Yes, they do.

Ascension
01-04-2009, 09:58 PM
Did you gloss over how it rejoins downstream?

NymTevlyn
01-05-2009, 05:38 AM
So? It splits and if the land features were any different between the split and the confluence, it could go separate ways. That was just the first example I found. I'm sure there are others.

wally-d-feed
01-05-2009, 06:31 AM
The thing is that water always runs the easiest way. If there are two ways that are quite easy to go ... than one has to be exactly as easy as the other one for the water to split

Nomadic
01-05-2009, 06:44 AM
So? It splits and if the land features were any different between the split and the confluence, it could go separate ways. That was just the first example I found. I'm sure there are others.

Because of how gravity works on rivers and the fact that two riverbeds being made of the exact same material and having the same inclination is astronomically rare, rivers don't fork downstream without soon rejoining (except in the short term before erosion and grade difference takes its toll).

Let's say you have a river that hits a point that splits off into two low points and decides to take both ways. At first you have a river forking off in two far separate directions and perhaps never rejoining. However the differences in slope and erosion on each branch means that eventually one out-erodes the other and, as water follows gravity, steals all of the others water. The result is usually one river and one dry riverbed.

Your picture is a perfect example of this. If you look close you can see the empty carved areas where it breached through but the flow lost out to another flow direction and dried up.

wally-d-feed
01-05-2009, 06:50 AM
Because of how gravity works on rivers and the fact that two riverbeds being made of the exact same material and having the same inclination is astronomically rare, rivers don't fork downstream without soon rejoining (except in the short term before erosion and grade difference takes its toll).

Let's say you have a river that hits a point that splits off into two low points and decides to take both ways. At first you have a river forking off in two far separate directions and perhaps never rejoining. However the differences in slope and erosion on each branch means that eventually one out-erodes the other and, as water follows gravity, steals all of the others water. The result is usually one river and one dry riverbed.

Your picture is a perfect example of this. If you look close you can see the empty carved areas where it breached through but the flow lost out to another flow direction and dried up.

also you can see this tiny little river-thingy between the two river splits ... this whole thing looks more like a formerly huge river that goes through a dry period

Hoel
01-05-2009, 07:19 AM
Periodic flooding can put the drying river into two different streams
Periodic flooding can also put the flooded river into two different streams
The point about not forking downstream is that it's not stable.
A stable river won't fork downstream.

Redrobes
01-05-2009, 08:37 AM
That picture does indeed show a river forking but it is an exact text book example of the exception to this rule and this is because that river is heavily sedimented and is constantly changing its course. In a few years the river will not look like it does now and as has been stated all the little curves around the main flow show how it is drying up, switching into a new path and forming whats called 'OxBow' lakes as the curves get cut off. This isnt a stable river and its called 'braiding' - heres another wiki pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Waimakariri01_gobeirne.jpg

The thing is that these braids in the path are really all part of one river. You will not find that these braids stay separated and one will go to one coast and another to a different coast. They always are very transitory and always join back up and usually in a very small about of distance. If they dont join back up then one of the two main links to the sea will dry up.

Braiding always happens when there is a lot of sediment as when the river drops it then it switches direction. So you cant have braiding on any steep bit of river or where it might have just dumped off a load of sediment - like just after exiting a lake.

Most of the maps here are of country / continental sized areas where you just wont see this kind of thing.

RobA
01-13-2009, 11:32 AM
For reference, here is a smaller scale version of a braided river I photographed in Alaska.

9198

-Rob A>