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View Full Version : Karros: The Birth of a World (WIP)



Nomadic
01-03-2009, 09:53 PM
Some say that we all have a world inside us, waiting to be born. Karros is my world. It originally started as a silly little idea dreamed up by a very naive DM. It was at the time called Meishgon: The Sundered World and was based upon a spherical world that had been split into elemental planes. The maps were sub par and the use of classic tropes were obvious to an almost painful level. Slowly though things changed. The naive world builder met new friends, friends far more experienced than him, and slowly his ideas took root. Since then they have shifted and changed in a very stream-of-consciousness manner.

That DM has decided to go back to basics and pull forth a world in a more organic way. Therefore a proto-continent has been drawn up and plate boundaries drawn. With some help, said DM is going to make like a 2 year old with a freshly finished puzzle and pull it all apart. From this then will come the terrain and climate as well as the migration of species and founding of empires. So now that you have endured that long winded and overly philosophical nonsense I give to you the proto-continent of my world, ready to be born. A bit of color and texture has been added to this version (since black and white alpha maps are boring :P ).

More to come once I begin tearing it up and turning it into a finished product.

Asharad
01-04-2009, 02:58 AM
I look forward to it.

Gandwarf
01-04-2009, 06:05 AM
Well, I hope it doesn't take as long for you to get to the end result as our world to settle down :)

Hoel
01-04-2009, 06:31 AM
Cool project. Looking forward to your progress

Talroth
01-04-2009, 10:55 AM
I would suggest picking up a handful of toy plastic balls for something like this. Far easier to get your wrap around collisions to work well when working in a sphere rather than a plane.

Also I'm thinking your plates might be kind of small, how geologically active are you looking for this world to be?

Nomadic
01-04-2009, 05:31 PM
I would suggest picking up a handful of toy plastic balls for something like this. Far easier to get your wrap around collisions to work well when working in a sphere rather than a plane.

Also I'm thinking your plates might be kind of small, how geologically active are you looking for this world to be?

They do seem a bit smaller than the plates that earth has but I don't think they are too small. I think actually I like the bit of difference and I am fine with the greater prevalence of tectonically active areas.

EDG
01-04-2009, 06:32 PM
I think you'll need some boundaries going off the edges of the maps and joining up on the other side. Right now it looks like your continent is one big plate that's shattered into smaller ones, surrounded by a single large ocean plate that isn't moving or doing anything.

Nomadic
01-04-2009, 07:50 PM
I think you'll need some boundaries going off the edges of the maps and joining up on the other side. Right now it looks like your continent is one big plate that's shattered into smaller ones, surrounded by a single large ocean plate that isn't moving or doing anything.

That's because I didn't do any ocean plates.

EDG
01-04-2009, 11:26 PM
That's because I didn't do any ocean plates.

You didn't make any at all? Or did you just not show them here? They're going to influence what's going on at the coastlines of your continent - an ocean plate subducting under a continental plate will cause volcanoes and mountains along the coastline, an ocean plate subducting under another ocean plate will result in island arcs like Japan as the sediment piles up to make islands, etc.

Nomadic
01-05-2009, 05:10 AM
You didn't make any at all? Or did you just not show them here? They're going to influence what's going on at the coastlines of your continent - an ocean plate subducting under a continental plate will cause volcanoes and mountains along the coastline, an ocean plate subducting under another ocean plate will result in island arcs like Japan as the sediment piles up to make islands, etc.

I haven't done any yet since I am trying to get ahold of my "partner in crime" for the map. Actually since you seem to know what you're doing, here's the alpha map. You are more than welcome to scrutinize it and throw out some pointers/images on where you think would be good for fault lines (both oceanic and land based).

Ascension
01-05-2009, 05:08 PM
I know it's not much but...that's a very interesting shape...I'm diggin it.

Karro
01-05-2009, 05:27 PM
You didn't make any at all? Or did you just not show them here? They're going to influence what's going on at the coastlines of your continent - an ocean plate subducting under a continental plate will cause volcanoes and mountains along the coastline, an ocean plate subducting under another ocean plate will result in island arcs like Japan as the sediment piles up to make islands, etc.


I haven't done any yet since I am trying to get ahold of my "partner in crime" for the map. Actually since you seem to know what you're doing, here's the alpha map. You are more than welcome to scrutinize it and throw out some pointers/images on where you think would be good for fault lines (both oceanic and land based).

I think what EDG is trying to say is that not only the land masses but also those portions of the world that are below land are parts of tectonic plates, whether continental or oceanic, and that these plates all interact with each other. Further, tectonic plates are continuous around the globe.

The way you currently have this divided up, if we assume that this one land mass represents the sole super-continent on the planet, then there are a large number of smaller continental plates that make up this land mass, and then one ginormous oceanic plate that makes up the rest of the (submerged) surface of the world, and which completely encompasses the smaller plates.

If this is the case, the tectonics will make for a world very different from earth, at least in the short term. I'm honestly not really sure how the plates would move when these smaller plates crash against the super-plate. At any rate, your next step, if you decide that this is in fact the way of this world, would be to determine the relative movements of each of the plates. In my own world-building, I worked with the assumption that tectonic plates follow something similar to a coriolis pattern (albeit flowing on currents of subterranean magma), but a massive super-plate is likely to disrupt that pattern considerably. (Also, I'm not sure that it would necessarily be true that plates would follow a coriolis pattern, but at least it made sense to me, and gave me some logic for how and why my plates were moving in the directions they were moving.)

Nomadic
01-05-2009, 08:46 PM
I think what EDG is trying to say is that not only the land masses but also those portions of the world that are below land are parts of tectonic plates, whether continental or oceanic, and that these plates all interact with each other. Further, tectonic plates are continuous around the globe.

The way you currently have this divided up, if we assume that this one land mass represents the sole super-continent on the planet, then there are a large number of smaller continental plates that make up this land mass, and then one ginormous oceanic plate that makes up the rest of the (submerged) surface of the world, and which completely encompasses the smaller plates.

If this is the case, the tectonics will make for a world very different from earth, at least in the short term. I'm honestly not really sure how the plates would move when these smaller plates crash against the super-plate. At any rate, your next step, if you decide that this is in fact the way of this world, would be to determine the relative movements of each of the plates. In my own world-building, I worked with the assumption that tectonic plates follow something similar to a coriolis pattern (albeit flowing on currents of subterranean magma), but a massive super-plate is likely to disrupt that pattern considerably. (Also, I'm not sure that it would necessarily be true that plates would follow a coriolis pattern, but at least it made sense to me, and gave me some logic for how and why my plates were moving in the directions they were moving.)

No what I meant was that I hadn't yet decided on the placement for oceanic plates. Even the land plates aren't a certainty yet. So I just glossed the ocean over for now until I am sure how I want the plates to separate.

In other news my partner in crime showed up and said he was willing to help work with me to figure plate placement and drifting. That doesn't rule out the ability for you all to give feedback on your ideas. Things are still very new so it's all just beginning to get going. This is the tedious part where the map layout is decided (the fun part comes when we actually start 'coloring' the map).

Karro
01-06-2009, 02:43 PM
No what I meant was that I hadn't yet decided on the placement for oceanic plates. Even the land plates aren't a certainty yet. So I just glossed the ocean over for now until I am sure how I want the plates to separate.

In other news my partner in crime showed up and said he was willing to help work with me to figure plate placement and drifting. That doesn't rule out the ability for you all to give feedback on your ideas. Things are still very new so it's all just beginning to get going. This is the tedious part where the map layout is decided (the fun part comes when we actually start 'coloring' the map).

Ah, I missed that point.

Well, then, good luck!

NymTevlyn
01-06-2009, 05:01 PM
Some of the land plates would probably subside below the oceanic plates while others would rise up and slide over them. The edges on some may even go down or up, creating new land, new undersea mountain ranges then islands, or massive trenches that are really deep.

Nomadic
01-06-2009, 06:08 PM
Some of the land plates would probably subside below the oceanic plates while others would rise up and slide over them. The edges on some may even go down or up, creating new land, new undersea mountain ranges then islands, or massive trenches that are really deep.

Land Plates subducting under ocean ones would have to be exceedingly rare (I am not sure if it has ever happened). Plates subduct because one is heavier than the other (and ocean plates are heavier than land plates).

Anyhow, an update. After talking around and looking around I have updated the land plates map a bit. Thoughts?

EDG
01-06-2009, 09:57 PM
Land Plates subducting under ocean ones would have to be exceedingly rare (I am not sure if it has ever happened). Plates subduct because one is heavier than the other (and ocean plates are heavier than land plates).

Land plates also generally have trouble subducting under ocean plates because the continental crust is just the 'scum' that's been scraped off from the top of subducting ocean plates that have built up over time.


Anyhow, an update. After talking around and looking around I have updated the land plates map a bit. Thoughts?

Something doesn't look right to me. The two plates in the upper right are at least big enough for the continental crust to have somewhere to go, as is the one on the far left. But the continental crust on the other plates can't really do anything at all (I'm not even sure how the L-shaped plate in the bottom right works). Think of the plates as a conveyor belt, with the continents on top - where can that interior continental crust go? Especially if it all splits at that triple boundary in the middle of the continent. And again it would help if we could see the ocean plates too that surround these ones - then we can get a better idea of how things will move around, where the spreading centres are, etc.

Take a look at Earth for comparison:
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/plate_tectonics.gif

Nomadic
01-06-2009, 10:13 PM
Something doesn't look right to me. The two plates in the upper right are at least big enough for the continental crust to have somewhere to go, as is the one on the far left. But the continental crust on the other plates can't really do anything at all (I'm not even sure how the L-shaped plate in the bottom right works).


I am not sure what you mean, could you explain in layman's terms?



And again it would help if we could see the ocean plates too that surround these ones - then we can get a better idea of how things will move around, where the spreading centres are, etc.


I can't put ocean plates in until I know what I want to do with the land plates. I don't want to force myself into a corner.



Take a look at Earth for comparison:
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/plate_tectonics.gif


Yes I based this map off that one. So if I am not getting it right with that there's probably nothing I can do myself.

EDG
01-07-2009, 12:12 AM
I am not sure what you mean, could you explain in layman's terms?

I did :) :


Think of the plates as a conveyor belt, with the continents on top.

That's it really. Plates move whatever is on top of them in a particular direction. At its simplest: at one boundary you'll create new plate material (at the rifts/midocean ridges) and that will push the plate along toward the other side, where you'll get subduction (and continental material there will pile up at the boundary to form mountains), and along the sides you'll get strike/slip zones where plates grind past eachother and cause earthquakes.

So you have to look at your boundaries here and decide what they're doing. Are they upcurrents, splitting apart and forming new crust? Or are they subduction zones? or strike/slip zones?

There must have been other plates there previously to have made that continent in the first place. IIRC usually when you form a supercontinent, the old plate boundaries seize up and disappear for a bit, and then as heat builds up underneath the thicker crust there new boundaries form and the continent splits apart - so you should have big rift valleys forming along those boundaries that go through the middle of the supercontinent, and you can use that to figure out what the other boundaries are doing.

I would say lose the L shaped plate and turn it into two separate plates instead - I think it makes a lot more sense for nature to form roughly square/rectangular plates than ones bent at right-angles.



I can't put ocean plates in until I know what I want to do with the land plates. I don't want to force myself into a corner.

TBH I think you already have forced yourself into a corner a bit... why not start from the other end - draw the plates first, then figure out the shape of the continent from that? Or maybe even draw the plates as they were in the previous tectonic cycle, before the continents on them collided to form the supercontinent - and then reset the plates and start again and break up the continent. Then you'll have old mountain ranges there too as well as new ones.

Nomadic
01-07-2009, 01:10 AM
I did :) ...


No that's not what I meant... here let me highlight what I am confused about (I don't know what you mean).

"Something doesn't look right to me. The two plates in the upper right are at least big enough for the continental crust to have somewhere to go, as is the one on the far left. But the continental crust on the other plates can't really do anything at all (I'm not even sure how the L-shaped plate in the bottom right works)."



There must have been other plates there previously to have made that continent in the first place. IIRC usually when you form a supercontinent, the old plate boundaries seize up and disappear for a bit, and then as heat builds up underneath the thicker crust there new boundaries form and the continent splits apart - so you should have big rift valleys forming along those boundaries that go through the middle of the supercontinent, and you can use that to figure out what the other boundaries are doing.


This was actually originally the first super continent after everything had risen and collected. I am not sure if it will still be but if it is there won't be old boundaries, just places where things are coming apart.



I would say lose the L shaped plate and turn it into two separate plates instead - I think it makes a lot more sense for nature to form roughly square/rectangular plates than ones bent at right-angles.


Fair enough.



TBH I think you already have forced yourself into a corner a bit... why not start from the other end - draw the plates first, then figure out the shape of the continent from that? Or maybe even draw the plates as they were in the previous tectonic cycle, before the continents on them collided to form the supercontinent - and then reset the plates and start again and break up the continent. Then you'll have old mountain ranges there too as well as new ones.


As you can see, plates are my weakpoint (while working with landmass maps is my strength). So I am trying to go from a strong point and use that to work with something I am not good at. I can't just come up with plates without something to work with, I need the continent map as a guide.

I will look into it and see about how I can make it rift right.

EDG
01-07-2009, 02:17 AM
No that's not what I meant... here let me highlight what I am confused about (I don't know what you mean).

"Something doesn't look right to me. The two plates in the upper right are at least big enough for the continental crust to have somewhere to go, as is the one on the far left. But the continental crust on the other plates can't really do anything at all (I'm not even sure how the L-shaped plate in the bottom right works)."

Oh, sorry. I meant that the continents would go from one side of the plate to the other. But most of the plates are too small or awkwardly shaped for them to really do anything more than rotate a little and then hit the opposite boundary.

Nomadic
01-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Heh I know this has been on hiatus for a long time but I am bringing it back. Me and Xeviat have been looking things over and with much help from him I have gotten a realistic looking map. The coloration is still in beta since I haven't had a chance to get an expert opinion on climate but we'll get to that soon enough.

Note that this is not a small map (just shy of 4k x 2k) so it might take a bit to load. Zoom in for an optimal look at things and enjoy.

Nomad's Freaking Gigantic World Map (http://www.nottaspace.com/nomad/World%20Final%203d-5.png)

Ascension
01-29-2009, 10:39 PM
I just wanted to say that this is quite nice.

Steel General
01-30-2009, 07:03 AM
Yup, that's looking pretty durn cool...