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landorl
01-31-2009, 12:55 AM
This is my attempt at a village surrounded by a dike. It is more of a test map than a real map, so I might not go much further with it. I did want to check and see what others think about it.

Morkhdull
01-31-2009, 05:28 AM
Well done... It looks like old celtic oppidum or irish crannogh :)

I wonder if the foam on the dam have to be seen on the lake (I found the cliff looks odd).

On another hand, I would border the culture by trees or bushes... A question of viewpoint :)

Gandwarf
01-31-2009, 06:31 AM
Cool map Landorl! I really like the dyke, palissade, waterfalls and general layout. It looks really natural.

The only thing I dislike is the color on the fields. It doesn't do it for me.

How did you do the waterfall?

Repped :D

Steel General
01-31-2009, 09:03 AM
Cool stuff!

The colors seem a little to 'off' for my liking, but that's just a matter of taste.

Hoel
01-31-2009, 09:35 AM
Nice to see someone doing something besides stone walls :)
Since I'm quite new to CD3, would you explain some of the different techniques you've used?

landorl
01-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Actually, this is all Photoshop. The ripples over the dam are just one of the default brush shapes and white color at about 60% opacity.

I can't say that I am in love with the fields either. I am still trying to figure out how I want to do them.

Sigurd
01-31-2009, 08:40 PM
I think the big draw back of the fields is that they are blurry and all radiate from the settlement. Unless that was really the lay of the land I think it looks a little predictable. Some sort of logical variation, perhaps with some fallow fields as well, would be satisfying to the viewer. They really stand out as regions without texture.


Sigurd

Hoel
01-31-2009, 10:49 PM
if this is PS i bow to a master. Good work! *rep*

landorl
02-01-2009, 12:06 AM
I've done a little more on the fields, but I am still not really satisfied. I will have to look around at what some others have done. Anyway, here is my latest update.

Gandwarf
02-01-2009, 07:41 AM
You aren't there yet, I think. The grass texture is a bit too realistic to fit in, for example.

Hoel
02-01-2009, 08:04 AM
It's not the realism, it's the scale...
My grass texture is done on about half scale to yours but I then scale it down another 50 or 25% depending on the map.

Sigurd
02-02-2009, 05:07 PM
I love the believability of this.

What is the size of your working image?


I tried overlaying your fields with a tiny wood grain to simulate furrows. I know that they'd be impossible to see from this height but the mind looks for something. I also added a mostly random shadow layer to dirty it up a bit and make it seem less flat.

I didn't play enough with the angles. I think that too much being horizontal or vertical hurts the presentation.


Its a very pretty map.

Gandwarf
02-02-2009, 05:11 PM
That looks better, Sigurd. At least to me eye.

Hoel
02-02-2009, 06:38 PM
Looks good.
And about scale, I'm an old wargamer with lots of experience painting minis. When you do patterns on small scales it often looks better if you scale up the pattern quite alot. I use the same technique in my maps. Textures are way bigger than map scale.

landorl
02-03-2009, 11:37 AM
I like the woodgrain. It helps a lot. Now I will have to try to figure out how to change the angle of the grain a bit.

The image size is 3300 x 2400 pixels.

Steel General
02-03-2009, 02:23 PM
Great idea using the woodgrain, have to give that a whirl in PS sometime.

landorl
02-03-2009, 03:11 PM
Sigurd, I need a bit of a PS lesson. How do I add the texture to my layer?

I currently have each layer set with the pattern overlay in the effects, and I have a different layer for each color/pattern scheme.

Sigurd
02-03-2009, 03:29 PM
Sigurd, I need a bit of a PS lesson. How do I add the texture to my layer?

I currently have each layer set with the pattern overlay in the effects, and I have a different layer for each color/pattern scheme.

Your map looks very clear and well organized - its working well for you.

What I did was the lazy mans approach

1. Copy a chunk of field as a new layer.
2. Add the woodgrain to it as a pattern overlay and then combine again.

#2 has the problem in that it is really bound by the direction of your stored photoshop pattern. (You can make more of these by opening up any pic and choosing Edit>Define Pattern)

Its probably more efficient in terms of memory to do the work manually. Load the pattern source, shrink it, rotate, cut it up, and paste it into a new layer that you then overlay.

This is the pattern I made for it. Anyone is welcome to it. It tiles sort of. (No edge weirdness but there is a recurring element in the base tile that is too noticable) Its soil coloured and fairly regular.


Sigurd

To tell your the truth though, I think this is sort of a kludgy way to do it. I'm using a tile to add detail when there should be a more elegant way to do it with a custom brush. The tile is a memory hog but it doesn't require much dexterity or thought. I'm going to try this in painter and see if there is a better way to do it.

Sigurd
02-04-2009, 10:49 PM
I took a really grainy brush and painted some strokes across the top of the fields on a different layer (1). Then I embossed and overlayed them (2).

Its rough but I think its got more potential

Ascension
02-04-2009, 11:46 PM
Definitely has some possibilities...looks pretty good, actually.

Hoel
02-05-2009, 07:38 AM
I don't like it, it looks too bunched up and the emboss is wrong.
When i did the fields in my burgenos map, i put down some brown shapes of the field and then i selected them, contracted the selection by 1 px and drew separate lines with a brush set to alter size and hue a bit, and some spacing, in a new layer.
If you want to try, I could make a short tut.

Steel General
02-05-2009, 08:09 AM
I'm kind of on the fence regarding your latest changes to the fields. Looks great zoomed out, but when zoomed into full resolution it's almost to much 'bumpiness' - maybe try shrinking the size of the bevel or something?

CBDroege
02-05-2009, 11:07 AM
I think the bumpy fields distract from the rest of the work, and take the focus away from the town.

landorl
02-06-2009, 11:11 AM
On to the next plan. I am trying something a little bit different for the fields now. I have only done the yellowish colored fields, but wanted to get some feedback. I have basically done some brush strokes instead of just filling the area. Let me know if that looks a little better.Village - Osterdat.jpg

Gandwarf
02-06-2009, 11:50 AM
Better, but the fields still draw the eye (instead the town should, I think).
Part of the problem might also be the size of the fields. Some of the fields are bigger than the town itself. Such large, colored areas tend to draw the eye.

Hoel
02-06-2009, 03:06 PM
The texture scale is still a problem. You should scale it down a bit..

Nytmare
02-07-2009, 01:57 PM
Scaled down and more subtle. Maybe you should wander around a bunch of aerial photograps of different fields so you can see how little the detail is that you're trying to recreate.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS254US254&q=aerial+farm&btnG=Search+Images

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS254US254&q=aerial+wheatfield

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS254US254&q=aerial+crops

I'm also wondering if it makes sense for everyone to have fenced off yards like that. Especially in a situation like this where each person's yard means that much more wasted space that everyone has to defend. I've always assumed that that concept of personal space is pretty modern. Id imagine everybody being much closer packed together with the only fences inside the walls being a corral of some kind.

The farms do seem to be large compared to the size of the fort, but that's only my gut reaction. Does anyone know the basic math involved in the ratio needed of farmland to living space? That'd be a handy thing to have.

What kind of scale are we looking at here, about how many people do you have living in those houses?

landorl
02-07-2009, 03:26 PM
From what I have read, it takes a lot of farmland to support a village. In medieval times they generally had 1/3 of their fields laying fallow each season. 1 acre will produce about 8-12 bushels of wheat, and it will take somewhere around 100 bushels to support a person for a year, so a family of 5 will need 10 - 30 acres of farmland.

The reason that I have fenced off each house within the village is that for a dark age village, they would also have some animals living with them. I have seen some drawings where they had woven fences between the houses. I don't know how accurate those are though.

Gandwarf
02-08-2009, 08:14 AM
The reason that I have fenced off each house within the village is that for a dark age village, they would also have some animals living with them. I have seen some drawings where they had woven fences between the houses. I don't know how accurate those are though.

I am not sure it's accurate, but I do know people used to keep cattle in their houses.

Oh, and about the size of the fields: it might be realistic, but sometimes it's better to be unrealistic. As long are you are not going for a realistic map of course.