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Korash
02-11-2009, 11:31 PM
this is a random town I am working on using pyrandon's Medieval Town Map tutorial (found here = http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1150). So far I have reached post IV and just finished the river part of that post and it has taken about 3 hours to reach this stage. If this is slow or fast I have no clue as I am a relative noob with the prog. mapping, but I think it is faster than if I started from scratch. I am using Gimp for this so we will see how it turns out in the end ;).

As always, c & c more than welcome. I have given much advice of late, so turn-about is fair play :D

I will rate the tut after I am done, but I like it so far :)

:edit: After posting I realized that the res is real low (72) :( I really have to stop doing that. Any way in Gimp to set a higher res as default? I NEVER check that setting until after I have invested some time.......

Ascension
02-12-2009, 02:18 AM
Lookin good so far.

Fabrice
02-12-2009, 03:01 AM
I was only wondering... is there a reason why the city seems to avoid the main river? Excepted in the case of swamps, people would build along a river for the easy access to water as life necessity and as trade route. Moreover the bend in the upper left-hand corner would be ideal as natural fortification.

Or maybe you planned to have the city on a hill overlooking the river and the surrounding flatlands, the better to protect itself? Then the river bends would make perfect sense... Or maybe I should just let you go on with the tutorial and keep my comments for later :oops:

Good luck and have fun in your experimentations!

Hoel
02-12-2009, 05:00 AM
Looks based on RPG city gen. I do like the river. It's hand drawn, not generated with layer styles and such i presume?
I'll keep an eye on this one.
Where do you place your batteries?

Steel General
02-12-2009, 07:00 AM
Another one to keep an eye on...

Korash
02-12-2009, 12:30 PM
I was only wondering... is there a reason why the city seems to avoid the main river? Excepted in the case of swamps, people would build along a river for the easy access to water as life necessity and as trade route. Moreover the bend in the upper left-hand corner would be ideal as natural fortification.

Or maybe you planned to have the city on a hill overlooking the river and the surrounding flatlands, the better to protect itself? Then the river bends would make perfect sense... Or maybe I should just let you go on with the tutorial and keep my comments for later :oops:

Good luck and have fun in your experimentations!

I was thinking along the lines that the town was built on the slopes of a hill/hills that forced the bend in the river. The high point would be on the south west side of town with sharp drops south and west of that, and gentler slopes north and east. Might add a few water falls or cascades on the two small branches starting on that hill, if I ever figure out how to do that.

The more I think of it, the more I think that this town might have arisen from a massive flood that forced people to the high ground, and lasted long enough that permenant structures took root.


Looks based on RPG city gen. I do like the river. It's hand drawn, not generated with layer styles and such i presume?
I'll keep an eye on this one.
Where do you place your batteries?

Spot on Hoel! and yup the river was handpainted then blured and smudged to within an inch of its life :) Most of the time spent on this map so far was on the river enlarging, editing and painting.

As for the batteries, any good Battery Commander will study the lay of the land before placing his guns. ;) As the the "lay" is as flat as steamroller road-kill atm, I will have to get back to you on that one Hoel. :) Rest assured that I have thought of arty support somewhere. :lol:

Hoel
02-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Excellent. Report back to HQ when you begin fortfying!
Carry on soldier.

Korash
02-13-2009, 04:04 PM
okay , spent another couple of hours working on Post IV and V. Added Rocky terrain and Elevation shadows for the illusion of height and placed my light source. Have yet to add the shadows thrown by it, but that will be next I think. I also changed the res to 175, in the hope that it will help.

Besides the shadows I think I need to:

-Work just a bit more on the Heights to make them stand out more

-Redo some of the roads and streams to make them match better with the new terrain

-I also need a way to merge the elevation shadows down into one layer, but that can wait til later. :edit: the prob I have with the merge down right now is that I lose the effect of the previous layer :endedit:

Comments & critiques?

Ascension
02-13-2009, 04:38 PM
This is looking great and I'm not just blowin smoke when I say that I'm keepin my eye on this...it rocks so far. As far as the merge...do you have 2 or more shadow layers? If they have different blending modes then those modes can get lost when merging. Personally, I just leave mine alone, but since each layer takes a chunk of memory with it I can see why the need for the merge.

Try this to see if it helps: click on the first shadow layer, create a new layer, link it to that first shadow layer, move the new layer under that first shadow layer, click on the shadow layer then merge down...this will remove layer styles (blending modes and opacity count as layer styles) while preserving the look. Do the same steps for other shadow layers then merge them together.

Korash
02-13-2009, 09:10 PM
thanks for the complements :) It is very encouraging.


As far as the merge...do you have 2 or more shadow layers? If they have different blending modes then those modes can get lost when merging. Personally, I just leave mine alone, but since each layer takes a chunk of memory with it I can see why the need for the merge.

No Kidding, 5 layers filled with black, @ ~10% opac and I am looking at over 120 meg of additional size in working memory demand. :mrgreen: Slooooooows thiiiiings doooooown just a tad. Might have something to do with a 2kx2k px picture as well


Try this to see if it helps: click on the first shadow layer, create a new layer, link it to that first shadow layer, move the new layer under that first shadow layer, click on the shadow layer then merge down...this will remove layer styles (blending modes and opacity count as layer styles) while preserving the look. Do the same steps for other shadow layers then merge them together.

I don't have time to try this atm, but I will later if I can figure out how to "link" layers. Not too sure I want to merge before I am satisfied with the elevation shadows, which I am not yet.

Korash
02-17-2009, 07:38 PM
Okay, spent another hour adding shadows based on the sun "position" (top right). Comments and/or critiques?

@ Ascension - I am using gimp, and I have no clue how to "link" layers. I looked through the commands but I didn't see it if it is available.

@ Hoel - Got 2 high points for the catapults and am thinking of some strategically placed ballistas to shoot along some of the larger gully's.

? for people = how do you place a bevel and/or drop shadow in Gimp. I am at the stage in the tut to start working on the buildings and Drop shadow is the next step.

Midgardsormr
02-17-2009, 08:05 PM
Wow, that's marvellous terrain! Very good job, have some rep!

Ascension
02-17-2009, 10:36 PM
Sorry, my bad...thought it was photoshop. Disregard what I said earlier :) Looks killer.

Steel General
02-18-2009, 06:29 AM
Coming along very nicely Korash.

Hoel
02-18-2009, 08:11 AM
Great job, coming along very nicely.
-The small pond to the west lacks shadows and seem to float on the slope.
-You need to soften some of the lines in the shadow layer, aspecially on the southern slope

I think you'll be using symbols for the catapults on this scale. Think about the range of those, they can't fire very far.
What's the main angle of attack?
The steep banks of the northen part of the river would make the bridges very hard to take if the defenders put up some stockades.
I'll keep checking in..

torstan
02-18-2009, 08:20 PM
I'd copy your building layer and desaturate it so that you have a copy of all your buildings in lack. Place it under your coloured buildings. Now gaussian blur it and move it down and left to give you a drop shadow. The ammount of blur, and the amount you move it will change the effect. Then change the blend mode to multiply or overlay (depending on how heavy you want the shadow and you are done. If you want to be a bit more accurate to the shape of the shadow then use motion blur instead of gaussian blur, but then you'll need to do a bit of cleaning up on the top left corners of each building.

Korash
02-21-2009, 11:16 PM
okay, finished number VI - Buildings and Roads. Or at least I think I am.

I also added a couple of rough bridges and tweaked the shadows a bit.

Next on the tut is the veggie stuff.

'nother ?....In the tut (Photoshop) pyrandon mentions a Filter>Artistic>sponge or dabbing with a sponge. Any equivalent in Gimp?

@ Hoel - main thrust would be against the southeast slope, with secondary assaults on the bridges and 1 threatened river assault from the western river bank. The main problem for the attackers would be keeping decent control attacking up the broken slopes, while the defenders really do not have any real protection versus any siege equipment.

C&C anyone?

RobA
02-21-2009, 11:24 PM
I think the ps sponge tool is like dodge/burn but for saturation.

I'm guessing a similar effect could be made by painting with the paintbrush using a fully saturated colour (like red) using the saturation painting mode. . Desaturating could be painted by using black or white instead of a colour.

edit: oh yeah - and to link layers, click to the right of the visibility eye in a number of layers. Then performing a transformation on one of the liked layers will perform the same transform an all linked layers. Not sure if that is quite the same as ps. linked layers.

-Rob A>

Korash
02-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Thanks RobA, will give that a try when I can later.

Hoel
02-22-2009, 08:00 AM
Looks good.
The defenders sure have problems with an assault up the slope. They won't have much protection at all. It would be more like a field battle than a siege...
If the terrain is smooth enough for the defenders cavalry they could really make a dent in any attacker, and there's good positions for archers. This could be a fun map for a fantasy strategy game at company level i think.

Korash
03-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Ok, spent a few hours adding the trees, but I think I might have gone a bit overboard. Opinions?

I also find that the trees take away from the sense of elevation that was there before. Suggestions?

Once I am actually finished with this I will do the "Siege of Teston" with the trees cut back and palisades and stuff, just for the fun of it (and to satisfy Hoel and me)

Anyhoot, suggestions and comments welcome.

:edit: got the tree pattern from pedrov in this thread - http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=724&page=3

Gandwarf
03-01-2009, 10:14 PM
I don't think you went overboard. The trees look very natural and the entire map looks great. Very interested in the alternative version as well, where the town is under siege.

Repped for further encouragement :)

Ascension
03-01-2009, 11:57 PM
Trees look great but I'd cut some more ragged holes in the forest to break it up some...especially right around the town at the top of the hill. Since it's an elevated position they'd want to have clear lines of sight for as much as they could get in order to see armies coming. Cool nonetheless.

Hoel
03-02-2009, 07:09 AM
I like it. I'd cut it down a bit around the roads and areas where people might have som use for open ground, some pastures around the edges and such.

The trees does break up the elevation shadow, I don't know if there is any solution. Excellent texture btw, works great with the style.
You could roughen the edge of the forest a bit, add some free-standing trees..

Greason Wolfe
03-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Well I think it looks just fine, personally. I rather like the how open things are between the buildings rather than having them crowded close together. As for the trees, rivers and roads, maybe one of these days mine will look half as good. Great work so far, a definite thumbs up from me.

GW

Sigurd
03-02-2009, 03:06 PM
Just think someone lugs water up that mountain to the castle every day. Bet their favourite thing in the world is the 'rain cistern'.

Very nice sense of depth and lovely tree texture.

I agree however that there are too many trees. Unless the town doesn't burn wood or till soil, I think us humans are just more destructive than that.


Sigurd

Korash
03-23-2009, 12:27 AM
well, I think this map might be called finished. I could spend some time figuring out how to add a few cliffs along the river, but I might not.

I modified the woods around the town, added shrubbery and farmer fields. I was thinking of the open area just north of the town could be used as a town commons.

I will begin work on the Siege of Teston soon(ish) after I post in the Final Maps forum.

Any comments and/or critiques?

Bishop Odo
03-23-2009, 08:02 PM
I really just a lurker here, but I have a few thoughts. Please take these with a gain of salt; after all they could be nullified with a little background information.

First bridges are expensive and you have two, very close together, to the point of really just needing one and they need to be protected. Since your doing a siege map, I would think a tower or fortified gatehouse would be in order, as well as a toll house. From a farming point of view, the best land is on the other side of the river, why not farming village near the bridge that would be protected by the bridge tower.

Since your current village is high up on a hill, with springs, that forces the river around it, I assume it limestone plug of sorts, but there is no sense of it rockiness, since the map is so green, there are no exposed rocks but gullies and ravines. I would assume the village up top has vineyards and orchards as well a pasture land.

The river could have banks and sandbars and where the river hits the limestone there would mostly be a large pool as the water inevitable tries to find its way around or though the limestone impediment scouring out a deep pool.

Just a few of my thoughts.

Korash
03-23-2009, 11:37 PM
Good points there your Holiness ;) and deserve some answers (and give me a chance to work some of it out in my head at the same time.)

My initial though on seeing what the generator gave me was a hill with the town on it and I went with that. The geology of the area came in very late in the game, so a lot of that logic went out the window :) I was trying to work mostly with what I was given and not force reality on it. Having said that though, I did try to justify why the town was so high up the hill. What I came up with is something like there was a HUGE flood that came by and forced people to take to the only high ground around (this outcropping) and it stayed long enough that a permanent settlement developed. As the waters slowly receded, the townies started to build further down the slope.

I figured that the hill is situated on a very large flood plain and was in a relatively secure area (hence no real need for defensive works. The one reason that I did think of as to why the pop would stay on the hill instead of onto the plain was a bit of paranoia about another flood. I realize that the bridges should have been wood, but I was thinking that the town has been around for a hundred years or so, surviving mostly as a minor stop over on a trade route, so the expense of stone might have been worth it. Why the two bridges? The original had two river crossing? I just never really gave it a thought.

Rocks on the out cropings was another area I thought of adding, along with those cliffs, but decided not to. Worth thinking about again I guess. The siege aspect of this map will be as in a before and after type of thing. This map being the before, and the siege version being after the town finds that the area is really NOT as secure as they thought. The bridges will have defensive works on the town side, trees cut back considerably, palisades all over the place to the south, refugees on the commons, and much mayhem else where. Or at least that is the plan :) I just need to learn how to do that. And find the time. ;)

As I write this, I am thinking more of going back to do the rocks, but I hit a wee bit of a snag last night. Working at 1am, I said to myself, "Self, I think we have done enough for today", and myself said that that sounded like a good idea. So me and myself decided that I (me) would post the latest WIP (which I did), while myselves would save the work to date. Then me, myself and I went to bed. Waking this morning I find that my selves forgot to save the work before closing Gimp down. :'( Oh well, 4 hours down the drain, and live and learn. = Save, and save often!!!!!

nolgroth
03-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Awesome map. I almost tried this myself a few moons back, but never got past the random town gen. I like it and if you've a mind to post any Gimp conversion notes, I'd appreciate that.

Again, great map.

Korash
03-27-2009, 12:33 PM
Ah....notes....?!?

I knew I forgot to do something :)

I always intend to make notes on the tuts that I use, but even after I print them and am working from those, I ALWAYS forget to write things down.

I am new to Gimp as well and I really should be making notes, so I will try to go over it again and do that for the new one. I will also try to remember what I did with this one and post that too.

Korash
03-27-2009, 04:49 PM
Well, redid the work that I didn't save the last time. :(

The woods are a bit different and the drop shadow for them is an extra pixel longer. I also added some rocky texture and bumps to some of the exposed areas. I tried to add some cliffs on the north part of the river but that went absolutely nowhere. I think that making the drop more precipitous might help, but I don't know how to do that.

Any comments or can I call this one done?

torstan
03-27-2009, 05:26 PM
If there's going to be a siege surely there should be a wall?

Looks great. Very convincing mountain you've got there.

Korash
03-28-2009, 09:33 AM
No siege yet. This is of the town during a more relaxed and peaceful time. Before the siege. Once I am finished with this map, I will try out the siege scenario, with the walls, the diminished woods and all that stuff.

Anything that needs improving/changing?

Ascension
03-28-2009, 03:12 PM
The only thing I can see is that the buildings are all very crisp so maybe a slight blur, half a pixel or so. Looks great tho.

torstan
03-28-2009, 03:16 PM
The only crit I have is that you have shadows on both sides of your river. If the light is directional and from NNE as your hill suggests, then the southern bank of the river should be light not dark.