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ravells
02-14-2009, 03:22 AM
I'm trying to come close to recreating the style of these maps (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E21040%7E540017:Venice--Venezia--Venedig--Drawn-by-)drawn by WB Clarke in the 1800s (more of which on this thread (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=49753#post49753))

This is still very much a WIP which will eventually become Port Kahardi for the CWBP.

At the moment I'm just working on:

a. Ensuring that the city looks credible in the shape and distribution of the buildings (I haven't cut up the big blocks yet);

b. the city hatching style (I've hatched the sea/river differently) to the reference but I think it looks too big compared to the reference which is much finer; and

c. the parchment background

Toff said something very interesting when this map was posted without the hatching and that was that it was difficult to differentiate open spaces from building spaces. Is that still the case with the hatching now in?

Thoughts, comments and crits very welcomed.

Ascension
02-14-2009, 08:39 AM
So far so good I say. Lots of interesting shapes, very dynamic and eye catching.

Steel General
02-14-2009, 08:48 AM
Cool stuff going on here Ravs!

I like the current hatching very reminiscent of some of the maps I used as inspiration in my current challenge map.

Hoel
02-14-2009, 09:29 AM
Really good style. Nice and crisp.
I do thing there's a bit much rounded blocks/buildings thou. It's a bit too organic in places like the docks...

NeonKnight
02-14-2009, 10:28 AM
Its interesting. I view the hatching as not so much 'buildings' but groups of buildings/city blocks.

ravells
02-14-2009, 06:06 PM
Thanks guys, I'll take it all on board and put up the next WIP later. Sorry Neon, I should have said blocks rather than buildings.

jaspertjie
02-15-2009, 01:41 PM
I'm trying to come close to recreating the style of these maps (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E21040%7E540017:Venice--Venezia--Venedig--Drawn-by-)drawn by WB Clarke in the 1800s (more of which on this thread (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=49753#post49753))

This is still very much a WIP which will eventually become Port Kahardi for the CWBP.

At the moment I'm just working on:

a. Ensuring that the city looks credible in the shape and distribution of the buildings (I haven't cut up the big blocks yet);

b. the city hatching style (I've hatched the sea/river differently) to the reference but I think it looks too big compared to the reference which is much finer; and

c. the parchment background

Toff said something very interesting when this map was posted without the hatching and that was that it was difficult to differentiate open spaces from building spaces. Is that still the case with the hatching now in?

Thoughts, comments and crits very welcomed.


No I don't like it. It's too dizzy

Midgardsormr
02-15-2009, 07:25 PM
I think it's beautiful. Do you intend to keep this clean look, or are you going to grunge it up like the sample map? Either way, I like it quite a lot. And I can clearly see the difference between the positive and negative spaces.

I'm looking forward to seeing Port Kahardi!

Towser
02-16-2009, 03:41 AM
I really like the ocean! Its very pleasing to the eye especially with the texture!

Valarian
02-16-2009, 08:41 AM
I like the style, though I think the larger blocks need to be broken up. The blocks of buildings along the coast look fine, but the large blocks further inland don't look right to me. Apologies if this is the intent and you just haven't got that far with the map yet.

[EDIT] there you go, I'm posting without reading properly again .... it's in the original post (point a)
Argh! Can't rep again. Sorry Ravs, I'll have to remember to come back when I can rep you again.

ravells
02-16-2009, 08:43 AM
Thanks everyone! I wanted to work more on it this weekend, but was too tired.

@Valarian - cheers Ian - yes the big blocks are to be reduced into smaller ones, I was getting bored with that part of the process so went to how I would like the final look and feel to be part. the problem is that I am doing the building shapes in a vector program which is now begining to really slow down with the number of shapes it has to deal with.

@Towser - the ocean texture was done with India Ink filters. If you map in photoshop then IMO these filters are a 'must buy' if you are after recreating old textures.

joão paulo
02-16-2009, 09:06 AM
Very considerable, especially these (lakes?).
However a beautiful style Rav :)

Torq
02-16-2009, 03:40 PM
Lovely start Ravs. The building shapes evoke an exotic architectural style with cool alley ways, roads and avenues. It seems like a good place to adventure and I like the hatching. All the better to hear its for the CWBP.

Torq

ravells
02-16-2009, 04:30 PM
Thanks all...I'm still not sure about the shapes. My thinking about fantasy maps is that they should evoke something of what we are used to when seeing a map - hence my ripping off WB Clarke's style - but I think for it to be a good fantasy map it has to have something 'otherwordly' about it. To be honest, I wasn't trying to create something otherworldly, I was trying to get something credible in terms of building distribution, but if it looks like a believable building distribution but not one we've ever seen, then I think I've hit the jackpot - so what Torq says fills me with encouragement.

Here is a small update bringing in new colours and tree symbols (lovingly ripped off WB Clarke's original).


(WB Clarke wherever you are in the hereafter - thank you! - I wonder whether he ever thought people would be singing his praises 100 years after his death?)

Hoel
02-16-2009, 05:22 PM
Looking really good. The grass is excellent and workds great.

Ascension
02-16-2009, 05:40 PM
That grass looks great, not sure about the trees yet. They're cool, for sure, but something looks out of place...side-view trees & top-down buildings...I dunno, maybe it's the scale, maybe it's just me :) Maybe they'll grow on me. The shapes are very cool, very mystical and non-militaristic; definitely evoking a feeling of "a place I've never seen before". Lookin good.

ravells
02-16-2009, 05:45 PM
Thanks Ascension, you've articulated what I felt was nagging at me but couldn't put my finger on. I think I might depart from WB Clarke's tree style and go for a more overhead view.

Ascension
02-16-2009, 06:02 PM
How would Mr. Clarke do a top down tree? Hrm, I dunno, but I know you'll come up with something sweet, as you pretty much always do. Ok, that sounded kind of butt-kissy. Oh well, you know what I mean.

ravells
02-16-2009, 06:30 PM
He does em like I posted, (more or less). But he didn't have photoshop....which is a good thing cos we'd all be screwed on the competitions if he took part!

jaerdaph
02-18-2009, 04:50 PM
I really like this, ravells. A Long Time Ago, I was experimenting with something similar in CC3, so I shall be following along with interest. :)

töff
02-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Toff said something very interesting when this map was posted without the hatching and that was that it was difficult to differentiate open spaces from building spaces. Is that still the case with the hatching now in?I think it's not the hatching that makes the buildings stand up, but the dropshadow. But they're still really the wonkiest bldgs I've ever seen. Carpenters on shrooms!

Cheers for trying so successfully to mimic that style (maybe yours is too clean, needs some noise/grunge for ageing) ... but I gotta say I don't particularly like that old style. I think your map deserves that you deviate from that style to improve the visual quality of the buildings. Durned if I can find a sample of the ones I think I remember from that period ... European city obliques, approx Napoleonic era or before ... pink and orange roofs ...

Erk ... I knew this Rumsey site looked familiar! (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=1184&highlight=rumsey) ... heh.

ravells
02-19-2009, 06:47 PM
I've gone at a complete tangent, and remembering that the Port City of Khardahi is meant to be uninhabited, except by the undead, am trying to give it a 'dead' atmosphere....does this work? (Soixante's mountains used!).

I'll come back to the WB Clarke style for a more appropriate map. Cutting up that city took the whole evening. I really have so little patience but a bit of Floyd and Chicane made the time pass more quickly...I don't usually listent to music when I'm mapping, but I think I really need it with cities. Damn thing looks so small.

Steel General
02-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Interesting Ravs...looking forward to seeing where you go with this.

ravells
02-19-2009, 07:17 PM
I think the city looks a lot better just on its own :(

Ascension
02-19-2009, 08:39 PM
That blue is an interesting idea...needs some grunge though, you know dirty it up, have some rubble laying around, add some gray with a noise layer or something.

Feralspirit
02-20-2009, 12:24 AM
Ok, Ravells, I have a couple of things (at least) to say.

First, your current piece is stunning. The blue buildings set a "ghostly" contrast to the darkly beautiful backdrop into which they are set. (If you intend to do more with these buildings, ie grunge or ruin them, perhaps retain the blue outline, maybe toned down a bit, as a sort of phantom of what the city once was.) I am heartbroken to hear that there are no living souls residing there to be amazed (or baffled) by the intricacy of the city's design. One last thing about the current piece, I am not certain what to make of the yellowish glow appearing in places around the coastline. Does it represent shallows? If so, it may not be appropriate around the docks. Is it perhaps the reflection of the setting, or rising sun? Or is it that I simply don't have the experience to appreciate it?

I don't want to end before mentioning the drastic departure from the "Test City Style." While it (the test style) did not initially appeal to my personal taste, it was nonetheless very interesting. It's possible that the city's design was enough to draw me into the map in spite of the style, or it might have been the unusual style combined with the intricate layout that made the whole a bit daunting. Either way, I was watching its progression with interest, and I do hope you find a piece to revisit it soon.

ravells
02-21-2009, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone (special mention to toff and Feral spirit). I took another look at this. I really liked the hatching but it wasn't really working on the buildings.

I think that when you have a map with this many buildings, having too much messy detail and colour just confuses it, because there are so many elements there already. I've gone for a more 'graphical' style with a much more limited pallete (but I kept Soixante's mountains) and used the hatching on the city wards rather than the buildings. I'm going to call it done (getting sick of it now).

I think this version retains clarity and a sense of scale. (well more than the previous ones anyway).

What do you guys think? Hatched or not hatched? Bear in mind that Hatching adds no further information to the map at all - but I like it.

Steel General
02-21-2009, 03:10 PM
I like it Ravs - it would even fit in with this month's challenge. :)

ravells
02-21-2009, 03:19 PM
Lol...I'll spare it from this month's challenge. It wouldn't be fair to put something in at the last minute and the standard this month is just far too good anyway.

torstan
02-21-2009, 03:21 PM
Looks great! I personally like the hatching. Good work.

Soixante
02-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Good to see you put that mountain technique to use. :)

Nice map!

töff
02-21-2009, 05:08 PM
I personally like the hatching.Me too. It's a nice add'l texture without going overboard.

Last time I'll complain about this, and sorry if I missed he explanation for it, but I'm still quite distracted by some of the hallucinogenic building shapes ...

Steel General
02-21-2009, 05:34 PM
Lol...I'll spare it from this month's challenge. It wouldn't be fair to put something in at the last minute and the standard this month is just far too good anyway.

I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit.

ravells
02-22-2009, 05:32 AM
Me too. It's a nice add'l texture without going overboard.

Last time I'll complain about this, and sorry if I missed he explanation for it, but I'm still quite distracted by some of the hallucinogenic building shapes ...

Heh, they do look a little weird don't they....recilinear shapes are so boring though!

jaerdaph
02-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Heh, they do look a little weird don't they....recilinear shapes are so boring though!

You've decided to map R'lyeh and its non-Euclidean geometry!