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Salama
03-02-2009, 10:49 AM
Here's something I've been doing for some time already, it's a temple/castle which is also located in my map of Village by the river. It used to be a temple for some generic good god, but is now taken over by forces of evil. I'm going to use this in a small adventure for D&D. I think I have walls, doors and floor finished, but there's still lot's of work with furniture and shadows. Also outdoor ground is just a placeholder. I'm also not sure about the red carpet, there's something with it that bothers me. And maybe I have too many bedrooms, I think I should make maybe a storage rooms or something. In the empty room I was thinking of having a kitchen there. Anyway, any comments or critique?

Sigurd
03-02-2009, 01:54 PM
I like your sense of colour and the frame around the building.

As a terrible nitpick (This does not help or hinder game use)

For me it has a believability problem that makes it look modern. There is a very reasonable layout of rooms but I can't picture how they would fit into any building that had internal beams or something sorta like medieval construction.

What would the building look like on the outside? Are there Windows?

You might put a column or two into the longest open spans. Maybe include a stone texture or something. I think that would make it seem more probable without harming your design too much.

Sigurd

Again this is a nitpick. Its a very usable map - so many gods so few temples.

Ascension
03-02-2009, 05:10 PM
My thought is that the red carpet looks fine but that the problem is the uniform gray stone floor...it looks more sci fi than fantasy. I'd try to find some concrete pattern as an overlay or a block wall or something with cracks and just a touch of tan or brown here and there. Very nice all in all, just needs a bit o tweaking on that floor and maybe the walls but that's just my thought.

Salama
03-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Thanks for your comments!

Sigurd: I made the layout of rooms only combat encounters in mind, but I'll look into your suggestions how to make it more believable. Windows are also a good idea, I should add few. Also noticed that outer walls of my temple are propably too thick, I might make them a bit smaller.

Ascension: You're right, I'll do some more work with floors. I don't want to use any patterns or textures with this one (although there is a small texture already in the pentagram), but I think I'll try to put some brown here and there with brushes like you suggested.

Wordman
03-03-2009, 11:18 AM
I also like this map. A few more nitpicks of the archetectural variety, for whatever that's worth:


The smaller, carpeted, L shaped hallway is a bit of a waste of space. It doesn't provide entry that you can't get in other ways. You could see, for example, how if you made the room with the stairway a bit larger and moved some doors, the designer of the temple would get more "usable square footage" for his client.
No bathrooms (outhouses, maybe?)
The north entrance seems to be designed to impress. What is the room at the southern entrance for?
The temple room has no preparation chamber. This might be OK, as the temple doesn't seem like it was designed for an audience.
I like the way the carpet looks, but who is it for? The priests? It starts in the grand north entrance, but then leads to living quarters and not the temple? Seems like it directs foot traffic the wrong direction. (Again, it would matter if this was designed to be a public temple or not.)

Salama
03-03-2009, 04:44 PM
Thanks for taking a close look at my map! Good suggestions, here's what I was thinking:




The smaller, carpeted, L shaped hallway is a bit of a waste of space. It doesn't provide entry that you can't get in other ways. You could see, for example, how if you made the room with the stairway a bit larger and moved some doors, the designer of the temple would get more "usable square footage" for his client.


Absolutely true. I'll look into this.



No bathrooms (outhouses, maybe?)


I was thinking outhouses and some washbasins/pots under the beds.



The north entrance seems to be designed to impress. What is the room at the southern entrance for?


I'm not sure yet, any suggestions? =).



The temple room has no preparation chamber. This might be OK, as the temple doesn't seem like it was designed for an audience.


Hm, this is a hard one. Temple isn't meant for audience now, but it has been before when it was a temple for a good god. I don't think the evil cult has made any modifications to the temple (except the pentagram), so maybe it should have a preparation chamber.



I like the way the carpet looks, but who is it for? The priests? It starts in the grand north entrance, but then leads to living quarters and not the temple? Seems like it directs foot traffic the wrong direction. (Again, it would matter if this was designed to be a public temple or not.)


I could extend the carpet to lead to the double doors of the temple.

Molch
03-03-2009, 05:04 PM
I'm not sure yet, any suggestions? =).



You could make the generic good god some deity of justice, law or order. Then the priests could receive petitioners in the room next to the south entrance to hold trials, settle disputes, host trade negotiations, etc.
One party enters at the north (the accused if it is a "in dubio pro reo" society) the other at the south. Family, third parties, friends and others have to wait outside. Only if the dispute is settled they leave both through the same door (perhaps under the cheers of their peers? For some reason I see hats being thrown...)

Salama
03-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Nice! I think I'll try something in these lines. Thanks.

Salama
03-05-2009, 12:18 PM
There's always too little time to make maps. However I managed to make some changes based on suggestions here. I'm not sure if the floor is better now, at least it's not so uniform anymore. I added some doors and windows, rearranged some of the rooms, etc. I think I'll make some more furniture next, decide what the empty rooms are meant for and so on... Any comments are always welcome!

Thought
03-06-2009, 01:39 PM
A very nice map; you've done a great job.

I do have a few ideas that you might want to consider. None of these are things that are wrong with the map, mind you, but things that might help you make it a little more... lived in.

Private rooms were a luxury in the past; monks and religious individuals often had them for religious reasons (prayer without being distracted, for example), but they were small, little more than alcoves. Your bedrooms are 15x15 and 10x15; in other words, friggenly huge (large even by modern standards). If this was an ascetic order, I'd recommend closer to 5.5 or 6 feet by 3 or 4 feet. Enough to lay down with your head & feet touching the walls and to pray. No more. You said this was for DnD; 4th edition? If so, a few large open spaces are good for battle (a 6x4 foot room wouldn't work for that, though it might have in AD&D), but a battle doesn't need to happen in every room either.

However, resizing those rooms isn't to say you need to remap those rooms. Well, not exactly at least. You said this was a temple to a good god that is now a temple to a bad god. So, 50 years old at the least, probably older. The rooms as they are used now are probably not how they were originally designed. So, I'd recommend having two types of walls (well, three counting the outer wall). Fancy walls, defining the original rooms, and simple/crude wooden walls added later to split those rooms up to serve other purposes. The order probably hasn't changed the original walls, but adding dividers in rooms is fairly easy.

On the topic of rooms, how many individuals are living here and what purpose do they serve? Orders generally don't have 10 priests all in one place if only 3 are needed, for example. Perhaps some rooms are abandoned if the order is smaller than the original order. Or perhaps they are crammed tight.

The red carpet is odd for a very simple reason; this is a temple, the focus should be on the god and the altar. The carpet draws the eyes away from the altar, and it doesn't seem to relate to the religious functions of the building. Additionally, if you have an ascetic religious order, it is totally out of place. Perhaps the original order had the carpet leading to very important religious rooms, but it was left behind? The new order ignores it; thus, a decaying carpet could be a nice touch.

Random curiosity, but where are the kitchen, food stroage, and dining hall? Assuming priests live there, they need food and they probably eat together too. Also, where do they keep basic religious supplies (vestments, incense, human sacrifices, candles, etc)?

Religious orders are also often very focused on time keeping. Both in the hours of a day (so the proper prayers can be said at the proper time) and over the course of a year (so proper holy days can be observed at the correct time). As such, you might want to include space and objects for that purpose (or not; small religious branches often receive calendar updates from a more central authority).

Are there any religious immovable objects about? Statues, water basins, pulpit, cages, etc.?

Where do they get drinking water from? Is there a well in the temple or on the surrounding grounds (or do they have to go a distance to get it)?

Also, does the order value physical labor? Many religious groups undertake simple physical labor in order to help them mediate on religious matters. As such, there might be a garden nearby or something else to provide physical exertion (but perhaps not on the map).

How do they offer sacrifices? If fire is involved (either with this order or the original occupant) the room might have a hole in it to let the smoke out (and in turn, rain and such might come in, thus developing the need for a drainage system).

Hope some of that helps. Again, great job.

~Thought

Phantos
03-08-2009, 06:00 AM
Loving the changes you made. Both versions look very crisp.

Sigurd
06-02-2009, 03:08 PM
General improvement, it feels more balanced.

You might consider placing columns in you walls where they'd support a lot of weight. It adds interest and plausibility.

DavidVS
06-20-2009, 11:55 AM
Greetings, Salama,

A few days ago my wife and I brainstormed rooms in a fantasy-setting temple while taking our son for a walk. Here is most of what we came up with. (I was beginning to plan a future adventure for our RPG in an abandoned Merfolk temple, and have since that day recycled the paper copy of our list of ideas after making a map sketch.)

For Visitors

Entrance
Washing Area
Restroom
Room, alcove, or hall with monuments (historical or of patrons, not religious)
Room, alcove, or hall with religious statues or icons
Room, alcove, or hall with tombs
Main Sanctuary
Tiny chapels for the families of wealthy patrons
Perhaps a second big room used for teaching, if the Main Sanctuary does not also fill this role.
Perhaps a hallway or room for eating.
Perhaps a library if the populace was literate.

For Low-Ranking Religious Officials

Vestry (where vestments were stored, often a changing room)
Item-Vestry (in case the candles, etc. had their own storage room)
Dormitory
Kitchen and Dining
Library, unless there already is one for the general public
Cloister-Walk (a hallway or room designed for walking repeatedly around a path)
Immersion Pool or other room for ritual use
perhaps their own restroom
perhaps offices

For the High-Ranking Religious Officials

Inner Sanctuary (sometimes an alcove behind the altar of the Main Sanctuary)
Reliquary
Restroom
perhaps a Special Top-Secret Sanctuary

For Guards (If Any)

Guard Room by the entrance (we're assuming they also sleep there)
Dining Room (we're assuming the Low-Ranking Religious Officials have to cook for the guards and bring them food, but would not eat with them)
Armory (unless it is merely a closet in the Guard Room)

Greyhind
06-20-2009, 04:55 PM
I want echo the prep room/vestry idea, my local church has an office up near the alter and a vestry at the foot of the church. These were the only rooms apart from the main hall before it was built (the vicarage is not attached but doesn't matter as clergy may often have multiple churches)!

Nowadays we have an extension which adds a second office two more halls five toilets and a small room along with innumerable closets. This is a fairly small church I'm describing if somewhat luxurious in it's hall space (overflow, somewhere for the youth and to rent out during the week).

Your second might need the staircase to a third if the previous clergy were members of a high* tradition.

*high meaning: highly traditional, very inclined towards reliquaries and the like (though a small church from any tradition wouldn't have a reliquary unless its a local relic...)