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Kepli
12-21-2006, 11:48 AM
I just have to show you all these maps made by Tintagel. He used Dundjinni for the map and Photoshop for shadows.
ToEE - Moathouse Ground Floor and Dungeons (http://danielrivera.org/maps.htm)

loydb
12-21-2006, 12:19 PM
Nicely done, no doubt. Regarding the giant map on the right, I can't help but wishing that, since he had it in Photoshop anyway, he didn't do anything with the color pallette. The moat and the grass, in particular, just kind of mush into each other. The abandoned tower map has similar color value issues.

The interior building portions of all the maps are excellent.

loyd

RPMiller
12-21-2006, 04:19 PM
Very nice overall. My nitpick would be the edge that meets the water is way to sharp. He should have used a gradient transparency that showed the ground under the water and allowed for a smoother transition, and I agree about the greens being a little too similar although on my monitor they are not distracting at all so maybe our monitors are similarly adjusted.

Regardless that is a much nicer map than I could produce and seeing an old classic map "re-imagined" is awesome!

Kepli
12-22-2006, 03:42 AM
Weird ... the colours for the moat and the grass are totally different. Must be something on your screen settings Loydb :?

Yeah, the harsh lines between grass and moat was my comment as well. He could have used some transition pieces in Dundjinni to make that a bit better, but it doesn't have a feathering tool yet. PS was only used to add some of the shadowing and light ... the rest was done in Dundjinni ;)

loydb
12-22-2006, 10:33 AM
Well, my monitor is color-calibrated with a colorimeter every two weeks, so I'm comfortable that it's pretty accurate. The colors don't look the "same", the color values are so similar though, that it gives the overall impression of blending into each other. It's a nitpick, at best.

loyd

edit: Went back and looked at it again -- what's bugging me is the texture on the water and the texture of the grass are kind of similar, and makes it look like the blue and green are transparent overlays on the same terrain.

Kepli
12-22-2006, 04:19 PM
I see what you mean ... He may indeed have been better of using another texture. :D

Arcana
12-22-2006, 07:32 PM
Now you just gotta send him here in person to defend himself

Tintagel
12-25-2006, 10:31 PM
Hello everyone!

This is my first post, and my official "defense", heh.

These are my first two maps that I would consider "cartography," period. They are also my first two attempts at using Dunjinni software, or photoshop, for that matter. I don't have any official training or proficiency with PS - so I am a complete n00b in this arena. You can see my other artwork on my website (use the link above). The only art I have done until now has been unplugged, with paints, brushes, etc.

Having said that, I agree completely with the criticism so far. At the time that I created the upper floor in particular, I had Dundjinni for 3 days, and I simply didn't have any other texture for any kind of swamp. Since then I have downloaded much of the user-created textures and png art. I never knew that folks even did that kind of work! I am in the very slow process of sorting through 500+ mb of images and textures - so it might be a while until I can use any of the spiffy stuff I have found.

I should also say that these maps are a mixture of Form and Function. That is, I initially made them for use with d20pro virtual tabletop software, for my D&D campaign. So I knew that my group would only explore the interior of the moathouse, not the swamp. It simply didn't warrant any extra time on my part. That, and I think my players would have me committed for spending 10+ hours on a map that we use for 2 hours, max... :lol:

The water transition: Kepli is right - feathering is not an option in Dundjinni. To do the same with photoshop and my limited understanding of the software, I would have to create 2 separate images and feather them into each other? Right now, Dundjinni is limited to 32x40 squares per map, and I had to stitch 2 maps together pre-photoshop. I don't think that I'm talented enough to blend it much better without more textures (and those are coming one day!).

I thank you all for your advice and feedback. I will use your suggestions with further maps. I'm just happy to have folks looking at my work with trained and talented eyes. :D

Arcana
12-26-2006, 09:43 AM
The thing about this site, is I wanted it to be more about the art of cartography with a little bit of focus on the technology of it...when you label something as art, you open it up to a better form of criticism...this form of criticism, constructive, is desirable :D but you all knew that.

Your map is impressive for sure...and from what I've seen, the more constructive criticism a piece gets, the more respect and "attention" its generating...welcome to the site Tintagel :D I look forward to seeing more of your work. Feel free also to post up some of your more traditionally drawn maps.

loydb
12-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Glad to have you aboard! I wasn't evaluating the map from a "is it a usable game map". I was managing editor and art director of a game company for five years, I look at it as "What would I tell the artist if he sent me this map for a book?". The interiors are great. Hope to see more of your work.

loyd

Tintagel
12-26-2006, 06:07 PM
Thanks everyone. It's good to get a more artistic eye on these. I should note, Arcana, that I don't have any traditionally drawn maps either - this is my first cartography at all. I don't count crude sketches on a whiteboard for tabletop play. The art I had done until this was a bit of photography, painting, and drawing. I don't really know the first thing about cartography. :-D