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pasis
03-07-2009, 07:45 AM
Iím starting a new map project now and Iím going to do the things a bit differently than before. I usually start with the continent and rivers etc, but not this time. Iím going to expand the small map I created while writing a tutorial for Photoshop: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=4405
I donít have any idea yet if this is going to be a small or a big map or what kind of civilization there is. So Iíll just let the feeling take me and letís see where it ends.
Here is the first sample I have ready and Iím now expanding it further.

bartmoss
03-07-2009, 11:43 AM
I like the style, but maybe try giving the forests a bit of bumpiness? They look very flat compared to the mountain style.

pasis
03-07-2009, 03:09 PM
I like the style, but maybe try giving the forests a bit of bumpiness? They look very flat compared to the mountain style.

I added some rougness under the forest. I this what you ment?

Ascension
03-07-2009, 03:33 PM
I think that's exactly what he meant. Dude, that looks awesome.

pasis
03-08-2009, 04:41 AM
I played around a bit to create crumpled paper look on the map and here is what I got. I'm not sure exactly what I did as I tried so many things and I need to do some reverse engineering...But what do you think, would you prefer normal look without any effects or do you like this crumpled look?

lisze
03-08-2009, 04:56 AM
I really like the crumpled look, especially out over the water. Somehow, the map feels more real with it, I think.

Flaterectomy
03-08-2009, 09:02 AM
That's beautiful, I really love how you made the trees and the mountains.

The only things I can think of that you might want to look at is maybe adding some variety in ground soil; it's mostly a savanah-type sand surface, right? Perhaps if you add some grassy patches - local weather conditions permitting - it would break things up a bit.

Secondly, the town on the river seems a little stuck-on, so to speak - I think this is mostly due to the drop-shadow and the smooth line where the town;s buildings follow the river's curve. I would suggest removing the drop shadow layer effect (which I assume you have used), and painting in the shading by hand, so you can more easily reflect a difference in heigh for the buildings, and leave a slightly more jagged line of structures along the riverbed with perhaps some of the sand there exposed instead of obscured in the shadows.

I Love the map though, and I am looking forward to seeing more of it!

Ascension
03-08-2009, 09:19 AM
I'd say normal version...the crumpled paper only shows in the ocean and it turns the ocean into something more of a fresco...interesting idea to play around with tho.

Soixante
03-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Great style! I think I prefer the one without the crumpled paper effect, though.

pasis
03-09-2009, 11:29 AM
I have not expanded much further out from this area yet, but I added some new tricks to add more variation to the ground. So I have added some harsh ground and grass as well. And I added small fields near the town. So small improvements so far only, but next thing is to expand the area.

Map Vandal
03-09-2009, 11:29 AM
I love the forest. I also prefer the uncrumpled version.

MadLetter
03-09-2009, 03:37 PM
Pasis, would you mind putting your textures online for us other mappers to use? :)

pasis
03-09-2009, 04:25 PM
Pasis, would you mind putting your textures online for us other mappers to use? :)

Yes I can do that, no problem. I'm currently working on the tutorial version 1.4 and I will add the textures into the tutorial thread as soon as I get the v1.4 ready to be uploaded.

MadLetter
03-09-2009, 04:26 PM
This makes me a happy mapper ;) Thanks

Also: Looking forward to more tutorial stuff and your map here. Comes along superbly nice.

Ascension
03-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Dude, yer ready to start looking for pro work...this gets better and better and retains much more of an artistic look that game companies look for. Excellent work, my friend.

pasis
03-10-2009, 03:36 AM
Dude, yer ready to start looking for pro work...this gets better and better and retains much more of an artistic look that game companies look for. Excellent work, my friend.

Thanks you Ascension for your compliments...

Soixante
03-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Latest WIP looks great. The water especially is fantastic. Tutorial on how you did that please?

MadLetter
03-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Tutorial on how you did that please?

Here: Klick! (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=4405)

V1.3 included bodies of water beyond seas.

pasis
03-13-2009, 11:29 AM
My PC broke down in beginning of the week and I have used an old laptop that is insufficient for PS CS3. I have managed to progress a bit, but I have to say that it is hard to proceed when you donít have a clear picture of your goal or boundaries of any sort. So maybe I have to change my strategy a bit and think through some guidelines like the mountains and the water system.

Anyway here is the latest update where I have reworked the ground to add more variation and ground textures like grass and bushes etc. I also expanded the sea and created a new mountain range. The sea looks a bit too restless and I need to work on that laterÖ

Jykke
03-13-2009, 12:58 PM
My PC broke down in beginning of the week and I have used an old laptop that is insufficient for PS CS3. I have managed to progress a bit, but I have to say that it is hard to proceed when you donít have a clear picture of your goal or boundaries of any sort. So maybe I have to change my strategy a bit and think through some guidelines like the mountains and the water system.

Anyway here is the latest update where I have reworked the ground to add more variation and ground textures like grass and bushes etc. I also expanded the sea and created a new mountain range. The sea looks a bit too restless and I need to work on that laterÖ

What would really make the sea pop out more, is a shoreline layer with a semitransparent layer.. so you could actually see the seabed near the shore and when the water would get deeper, it would just slowly fade to darker blue.. (and maybe you could add another layer over all of them with the small foamy wavetops etc.. just to make it rock even more. :) ) If you do the same to the river in a correct way.. even better :)

pasis
03-13-2009, 05:14 PM
I made changes to the sea shore layer as the previous one was not that good.

pasis
03-15-2009, 05:10 PM
Here you have a small sample of the the new area I'm working on and this valley is called the "valley of tears".

ravells
03-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Looking brilliant, Pasis...the mountains are simply wonderful.

Gandwarf
03-16-2009, 07:57 AM
Yeah, you are doing some magic here. Very beautiful and can't wait to see some more progress.

pasis
03-16-2009, 05:44 PM
Time for a bigger update. I'm still stuck on all the small details, but its starting to get a proper shape. I encourage you to look into the details as all the cliffs and river bends and small forest are there on purpose.
But enough said...let the map talk for itself.

Steel General
03-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Continuing goodness...keep up the nice work!

Ascension
03-16-2009, 06:13 PM
I like that peninsula...looks very steppe-y. Trees seem to have a bit of 3d, pop up in ya face kind of feel that looks real cool...almost real. Nice stuff.

Jykke
03-17-2009, 02:39 PM
Starting to look pretty good. You'll deserve some rep for this :)

Soixante
03-17-2009, 07:25 PM
So vibrant...so beautiful. I'm jealous of your skillz. ;)

SikSavant
03-18-2009, 03:43 PM
This style is perhaps my favorite of the many styles I've bumped into on the forums. I've been trying like crazy for several days now, to execute this mountain style in my own efforts, but have been unable to. The best I can come up with looks very much like 3D fishbones, not the sweeping slopes of some of Pasis' latest examples.

I was wondering, if maybe I could talk Pasis or other members who have had good success from the tutorial, to maybe chime in with a more explicit set of mountain raising instructions. I'm not sure where my disconnect is: it could be my fledgling photoshop skills, or even weaknesses in my artistic ability. I reckon the best help would be a video tutorial, but not everybody has the time or ability to assemble one of these.

If needed I can post my attempts and then ask direct questions regarding the tutorial instructions, if that would work better. Anyway, love the style, hope folks can help, and happy mapping! :)

RobA
03-18-2009, 04:01 PM
If needed I can post my attempts and then ask direct questions regarding the tutorial instructions, if that would work better. Anyway, love the style, hope folks can help, and happy mapping! :)

Just start up your own WIP thread and post up what you have and where you get stuck. Someone should come along and give you a hand :)

-Rob A>

pasis
03-18-2009, 04:55 PM
One way to avoid the fish bone look is to use brush that is wide enough and to lower the opacity and then paint many times over each area. This way you slowly start to get the right look and can easily paint more to areas needing attention. But even all that said, I agree what RobA wrote to start a new WIP so we can assist and marvel your creation.

pasis
03-19-2009, 09:23 AM
New mountain range forming up, but it still needs work. I will continue by adding forest and other stuff and finalize the mountains later.

Karro
03-19-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm loving your maps, here, pasis. Simply great.

Flaterectomy
03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
How do I go about purchasing a vacation home in the city by the lake in the southern half of the map? In other words, I love it and enjoy seeing you progress. :D

pasis
03-20-2009, 07:40 AM
Progressing in the speed of light (at least comparing to my normal progress speed :) ). Next is to work on the islands, add civilization and more details, more details and some more details.

Jykke
03-20-2009, 03:14 PM
Nice work pasis :)

This next critique isn't about your map, but rather about other people. So don't get offended :)

What I really would like to see people using your tutorial as a basis for their maps, but with a twist of originality :D. I don't know if I should call it a problem or not, but somehow people are stuck in using the same textures that were presented on the original tutorial. Also the mountains seem to be quite the same style as you have represented here. The so called fish-bone (considering the mountains) problem is quite usual, and what I would like to see, is mountains with a bit different texture and different form. It might seem like nagging to many, but when people use 1:1 techniques to produce results that I can't really tell apart from the original, I suggest you to give inspiration to people, so they realize there is a much potential in this style to transform it to a multitude of other styles that cannot be directly linked to the original one. :)

pasis
03-20-2009, 05:11 PM
I won't get offended, don't worry...
I would assume that when people get more familiar with the this technique they get more confident and start implementing new textures and tricks.

Karro
03-20-2009, 05:17 PM
I won't get offended, don't worry...
I would assume that when people get more familiar with the this technique they get more confident and start implementing new textures and tricks.

You know... I have the opposite reaction. I have to say that I think this technique you've developed here is much better than what you originally used in the map you got featured, and that of course was a good map. I think the rest of us get better by learning from those who develop these good styles, building the skills that allow us to improve and pioneer our own styles as well.

pasis
03-22-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm starting to get this finalized shortly. I still need to add final touches to the lakes and rivers and maybe some other details, but not too much anymore.

The next question is whether I should add labels here (cities, mountains, rivers etc.) or not?

ravells
03-22-2009, 09:31 AM
Stunning textures, Pasis.....just stunning. I'd like to see it with labels, I think they'd look great. Sadly can't rep you as I have to spread the love around a bit more.

ravells
03-22-2009, 09:35 AM
Nice work pasis :)

This next critique isn't about your map, but rather about other people. So don't get offended :)

What I really would like to see people using your tutorial as a basis for their maps, but with a twist of originality :D. I don't know if I should call it a problem or not, but somehow people are stuck in using the same textures that were presented on the original tutorial. Also the mountains seem to be quite the same style as you have represented here. The so called fish-bone (considering the mountains) problem is quite usual, and what I would like to see, is mountains with a bit different texture and different form. It might seem like nagging to many, but when people use 1:1 techniques to produce results that I can't really tell apart from the original, I suggest you to give inspiration to people, so they realize there is a much potential in this style to transform it to a multitude of other styles that cannot be directly linked to the original one. :)

I think it's great that other people can replicate the style of the map exactly. What I've seen with tutorials here is that once they are confident they can do that, they then start bringing in their own little variations. Many people (me included) combine styles of various tuts with some orignal input too.

I think this is how the artists of old were taught: learn how to copy the masters (and Pasis is definitely one!) and then move onto your own original styles.

Steel General
03-22-2009, 09:53 AM
Well spoken Ravs, I agree.

pasis
03-23-2009, 05:46 PM
I have been playing around creating Compass and scale indicator for my map. I wanted them to be kind of 3-D on top of the map.

I wanted the name of the map and the scale indicator to be made from a slightly torn wood where fibers are clearly visible. The text is written by burning the wood with hot metal...or I mean that is what I want it to look like... I still need to make the wood look older, but other vice it looks good already.

RobA
03-23-2009, 06:03 PM
Regarding the compass... does the pointer mean north on the map, or does the compass body alignment mean north on the map?

-Rob A>

pasis
03-23-2009, 06:09 PM
Regarding the compass... does the pointer mean north on the map, or does the compass body alignment mean north on the map?

-Rob A>

I was so into drawing these that I didn't think of that at all...LOL...
The north is where the compass body shows and the pointer just indicates the direction of this map on a table...yeah that's the way it is then...

landorl
03-23-2009, 06:34 PM
This map will be a piece of art when it is complete. It should be a featured map!

overlordchuck
03-23-2009, 07:28 PM
This map will be a piece of art when it is complete. It should be a featured map!

Seconded. It's already blown my mind.

pasis
03-24-2009, 05:56 AM
I finalized the look of the map logo and now it looks more torn and stained and I'm happy with it now.

I only have few names to add before I call this finished. But actually I have also been tweaking my forest here and I now have to choose which one to use. The left one is the original and the right one is the tweaked one where I extended the trees so that they look more individual trees now. The problem with that one is that in this scale you couldn't really see the individual trees, so let me know if you feel that the tweaked trees are in conflict with the rest of the map or if they are good despite of the reality aspect.

Jykke
03-24-2009, 06:16 AM
i like the original more than the tweaked one. Somehow it looks a bit better. :)

landorl
03-24-2009, 05:50 PM
I think that I also like the original. I can't say that there is anything wrong with the second one, I just think that the first one fits the map better.

Karro
03-25-2009, 12:44 PM
Ever the nay-sayer, I must admit I prefer the second one. There's something I like about it, the hint of very-realistic looking isometric forests, despite the very non-iso mountains. Somehow, stylistically, it just gels with me in a way your original forests do not.

Flaterectomy
03-25-2009, 03:44 PM
I am leaning towards the second style as well. It would be a more symbolic look for the forests, and due to the nature of your map that would be in interesting mix of realism and symbolism, but I think it just works. Ideally (in my opinion, of course), it should probably be somewhere in between style 1 and style 2, to retain the sense of realism, but add a shaggy edge to the forests that gives it a more tree-feel.

If that makes sense. :D

Jykke
03-25-2009, 05:04 PM
Individual trees could work, but those one in the second one, are a bit too fuzzy.. if you can make them look more like individual trees, then the style will work. That's my 2nd opinnion :)

pasis
03-26-2009, 02:14 AM
I Will give this a new try and will see if I can tweak the forest further.

pasis
03-26-2009, 05:01 PM
I call this one finished and I have posted the final result in the Finished maps area and in thread http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=4903
In that thread I have couple of different modifications from this same map.

And thank you all from your thoughts and advices on the way.

-Pasi