View Full Version : Jartor - Commission request

07-09-2009, 02:20 PM
This is a city map requested by Duerma here. (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=6150) I really like the thought and history that Duerma has put in the city (cool names too) and the demands are pretty flexible on what Duerma wants.

I'm going to try to use the Lazy man's city style I did here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=5713) to try and make it reasonably quickly. I just have to remember how I did the lazy man's city now, lol!

I'll post WIPs as I go along. The first stage is to get the roads, buildings and negative space sorted. The city is broken up into neighbourhoods, I'm going to try and map it neighbourhood by neighbourhood, trying to give each it's own character, but quickly.

Anyway here's the first half hour's work. I'll probably texture the backgrounds like the roads, greenery and mountains towards the end. The first image is Duerma's sketch (there is an errata in that the landmass is supposed to extend to the right off where it currently is. The second are the buildings of the Tanner's quarter largely complete. It's a lower class area so the buildings are small and hovel-like. There are other lower class areas and I'm wondering how to differentiate them from this one...colour I guess. Suggestions and C&Cs welcomed.

07-09-2009, 02:42 PM
EEEEEEE. I'm so excited! Thank you so much for this. :)

As for differentiating the lower class areas, I sort of imagined that maybe the Bluffwarrens and Crags might have been built into the sides or hills and cliffs, so that some of the lower class residences would be basically caves with a door in front. Just an idea!

07-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Looking nice so far. I'm very interested in the mosaic-to-houses technique, so looking forward to seeing your progress. ;)

07-09-2009, 02:52 PM
EEEEEEE. I'm so excited! Thank you so much for this. :)

As for differentiating the lower class areas, I sort of imagined that maybe the Bluffwarrens and Crags might have been built into the sides or hills and cliffs, so that some of the lower class residences would be basically caves with a door in front. Just an idea!

I was afraid you'd say that :)

My pleasure...just finsished the basics of the docks (more of the same but in a different colour) I'll post again when I progress to the middle classes.

Alfar: the mosaic technique is basically just a third party mosaic filter (Xenoflex) and a bevel and emboss layer effect. Unfortunately the native PS mosaic just can't get the same sort of 'housey look'.

07-09-2009, 03:04 PM
I know the technique, I'm interested in what you're going to do to it on top... I'm working on a gimp script that'd build a town around the streets I draw based on the mosaic filter, over here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=6152). :P

07-09-2009, 03:23 PM
The mountains surrounding the city were begining to scare me, so I thought I'd do a quick texture test to see if I could get that 'cave look' in the bluffwarrens and the crags...I can see them in my mind's eye (great descriptive names, Beth) but how to do them quickly is the hard part.... I'm thinking Pasis's mountain technique might be better but it's more time...

07-09-2009, 03:24 PM
I know the technique, I'm interested in what you're going to do to it on top... I'm working on a gimp script that'd build a town around the streets I draw based on the mosaic filter, over here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=6152). :P

Ah thanks, I'd missed that thread. I'll take a closer look.

07-09-2009, 03:35 PM
I like the cliffs Ravells!

07-09-2009, 03:36 PM
Looks good so far Ravs

07-09-2009, 05:21 PM
Trying to get the bluff warrens (the housing to the extreme left) to look like they're sort of built into the mountain. I think with a bit more texture mixing it could look pretty good. Not sure about the middle class district housing size and density but I'm hoping that will come through once I start putting in garden textures etc.

Well...it may not be all that pretty but it's quick! Computer is seriously slowing down though...I think that maybe because I've loaded 2,500 fonts by accident after my last crash/reinstall (had three this week)...yuck.

Gotta love Genetica though ... fine textures.

Steel General
07-09-2009, 05:25 PM
I'd say it's coming along pretty darn nicely so far.

Just an idea that may help with the mountains is possible reducing the magnification of the texture. Not sure if it will make a difference or not.

07-09-2009, 05:52 PM
thanks SG....I've brought it down and it looks much better. Also the mountains were a bit too snowy, so I adjusted that on the base texture for the pattern...work so far:

07-09-2009, 06:40 PM
last post for the night (bit of grass texture and some other little bits)...I'll carry on tomorrow.

07-09-2009, 10:01 PM
The only thing missing, to me, is any real sense of depth. It kinda looks like a big ole lava field with a really large cobblestone street. Might need some shading, dark inner glow, inner shadow, or a bevel to induce the height-feel. But at least it's quick so I guess that's worth something too :) Good start and I like the previous mountain colors.

07-10-2009, 03:48 AM
Thanks Ascension. At this stage the textures are really just placeholders and the priority is to slap down the buildings. Once the buildings are done, I'll start overlaying textures, blending and masking them.

For the rich areas I think I will have to draw the buildings by hand since you can't really get away with generic blobs and squares. Need to find some piece of software which can churn out interesting building-like outline shapes...'context free' maybe, but I may need the help of someone who can write a simple code for it to do this, Redrobes could probably do it in 5 minutes whereas it would probably take me hours!

07-17-2009, 02:03 AM
Hi Duerma,

I'm afraid my home computer finally expired a couple of days ago - it's been dying in stages for the last month or so. I'm getting a new one, but am waiting until Windows 7 is released in the UK (August) before I buy it as I don't want to use Vista. A friend has kindly lent me his machine for the interim but I'll only be using it for office stuff and browsing, so I'm afraid this project will be on hold until my new beast arrives (sorry for the inconvenience).



07-17-2009, 02:36 AM
I heard that if you buy a computer with vista now, you get a free upgrade to windows 7 when it is released. Atleast there should be a microsoft campaign like that going on.

07-17-2009, 02:53 AM
Yes there is, but I've just read in PC Pro that there's a spat going on between Microsoft and the EU on the upgrade. It says that the upgrade will only be shipped in the EU in 2010 so only the full version will be available here. See this link. (http://windows7news.com/2009/06/25/no-windows-7-upgrade-edition-for-eu/). Installing the full vesion will mean reinstalling all my software and I don't want to have to do it twice for the sake of a couple of weeks.

07-17-2009, 02:59 AM
That sucks, dude. Crashing computer is evil.

07-17-2009, 03:05 AM
Yeah, I think the motherboard is fried. When I opened it up there was a big glob of melted white plastic on it (I still don't know where it came from). It still ran (after a fashion) it would mysteriously switch itself on from standby so I had to turn it off at the socket. Over the last few weeks it just began to get more and more erratic (CMOS rearranging the harddisk boot sequence for no apparent reason was one of its other tricks). Then it finally gave up the ghost yesterday. I'm having a friend install a new MB and processor and will use it as my second puter once it's better. Although 5 years ago it was cutting edge it's a bit pedestrian now, so I thought I'd treat myself to a high spec machine as my main one.

I'm surprised my wife didn't think I sabotaged the old one so I could get a new one ;)

07-17-2009, 03:08 AM
Yeah, wives have been known to hold such suspiscions :P

I guess congratulations are in order then, on the upcoming new compy. Is your data safe, at least?

07-17-2009, 08:31 AM
As far as I know the hard drives are fine. My friend is putting my d drive into an external hard disk and giving to me on Monday, but I have it backed up to about 2 weeks ago on another external hard disc if worst comes to the worst.

07-23-2009, 01:44 PM
I've ordered my puter and it's a bit of a beast. Should arrive in the next week or so. Once I've got her settled in and dosed up with software I'll continue with the map.

Ohhh.....I can't wait!!!

07-23-2009, 01:48 PM
Cool beans! I'm sorry your computer gave up the ghost, but it's so exciting to get a new one. :) Thank you very much for keeping me posted!

07-23-2009, 01:52 PM
No worries Duerma, thanks for hanging in there! I have grand plans for your map!

Tell you what, after I've finished this, I can do you a map of Elduun. I've enjoyed reading your site and I prefer doing continental sized maps anyway.

07-30-2009, 11:40 AM
New compy arrived and this is the first message from it.

Now to load up Crysis and see what this baby can really do. After I've done all the boring stuff like taken a clean disk image etc etc.

Hee hee....hang in there Duerma, not long now....


08-05-2009, 03:48 PM
Ii've rethought the map and gone back to basics.

Fiddled with Alfar's code on context free so it produces a thousand buildings per pass with a bit more variation. Also, been struggling to find a legible style so I went into vector and this is the result. What's good about it is that dunjinni type objects which are pre-made should (ha ha) fit in easily with it to add interest to various bits. What you can see on the detailed map are the buildings which I've dragged, rotated and dropped into the begingings of the district and the 'raw material' below that.

It's a more traditional 'fantasy style' city feel (which is good). I also like how you can make city blocks and still keep the stroke on individual habitations within the blocks. As it's vector it's very easy to highlight individual buildings, play with the style attributes etc. Hence the red and orange buildings, but with Vector you can 'layer style' each individual object. It's also easier to suggest multi story buildings buy putting one shape on top of another but I've yet to experiment with that bit in detail.

This is still at experimentation stage and I'll probably scrap it and start again once I've planned the district better, but I'm just working on getting the negative space of the roads right, relative size of buildings etc. Working in vector means that working with individual objects is easier so I can highlight important buildings. As I'm going through this I'm finding faster ways to get through the work but it's still pretty slow as you have to fit the buildings together like bits of lego, but it's still a LOT faster than having to draw them individually.

The second picture is the Tanner's district, the first picture is the whole city (tanner's district to the SW). :: cries:: . I think I'm finding ways to make the process faster like using the eraser to cut through objects to make small windy streets. There's a small block on the extreme left of the map where I've done this - they look a bit different to the 'lego' ones.

For the final city to be legible at the detail and scale at which its being drawn the map is going to be huge and this is where vector wins out again (I hope).

I'll post more WIPs as I go along but I'm quite excited about this although I think it's going to be a bloody long slog.

Not sure about the texturing or whether the city will even need it once it's complete.

Duerma, I don't know if you're reading this - it's going to take a while but it'll be worth it in the end! Time to take your players on a diversion somewhere!

C&Cs welcomed as always.

08-05-2009, 04:41 PM
Duerma, I don't know if you're reading this - it's going to take a while but it'll be worth it in the end! Time to take your players on a diversion somewhere!

Hahah. That's a great quote, spoken by a true cartographer.

I think this is a really interesting idea. I like the "lego" concept of building the blocks. One thing to consider: rotation and image flipping can definitely be your friend. Maybe make a few "blocks" and then just rotate/flip chucks of blocks. I'd be surprised if anyone could find the pattern.

Working in vector is nice -- much easier to make adjustments to building shapes. CS4 I think now supports "smart" vectors, so you could theoretically import the entire layout for texture-goodness in photoshop.

Welcome back and good luck!

08-05-2009, 04:47 PM
Thanks Redstar, part of the reason why I went for vector is that my copy of CS4 which is supposed to be winging from the States I bought from Byte Sized Deals (http://www.bitesizedeals.co.uk/) - They were cheap! Unfortunately after I'd shelled over my cash it turns out their reviews (http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews197025.html) are abysmal. Of course I checked out the reviews after I spent my cash :(.

From the reviews it appears that if you push them hard enough they will send the stuff or refund your money but I think building the city is going to be easier by comparison :)

I've been doing lots of rotation and flipping which is again, so much easier in vector.

08-05-2009, 05:24 PM
I am reading with excitement! :) I'm actually about to send my adventurers off on their first major dungeon delve, so it all works out. I'm so interested to see what you come up with.

08-05-2009, 06:05 PM
Cool - glad you haven't got bored and gone away! With this style of mapping we should be able to label individual buildings...for example a Tavern, an NPC's house or whatever. I've got an idea about how we go about mapping the districts but I'll need more input from you so it melds into your campaign. Let me crack the style first and then I'll get back to you.

I'm researching traditional tanning for the Tanner's district - it's quite fascinating!



08-05-2009, 07:35 PM
Tanner's quarters just about finished on the main bits. Here is a flow chart as to how the place works.

After the livestock is slaughtered, the meat goes to the market and the hides to the lyme pits where they go to the market after they are cured. The dispersed buildings to the west are smoke houses where jerky is made (yum!).

Steel General
08-05-2009, 07:37 PM
Very interesting to watch this develop...

08-06-2009, 03:28 AM
Look very good Ravells. You are indeed putting a lot of thought in this.

08-07-2009, 08:36 AM
Hey Ravs, I thought maybe you'd find this thingie interesting :)

`Gimp Plugin: A better lazy man's city? (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?p=73932#post73932)

08-07-2009, 12:53 PM
Thanks Alfar, I'll post on that thread in a second.

I am having a BALL with your context free script and combining it with vector and auto-trace and an eraser I can lay down loads of buildings very quickly and (IMO) the result is much better than the lazyman's style...well different anyway.

Here's the latest WIP of Jartor (all in vector so far although I may at the end take the background into raster to texture it, but I like the clean feel of it - it makes the map more legible given the small scale.

It struck me that I should really follow my own advice in my depicting cities booklet, so now I am.

Here's how it works:

The labels act as a flow chart as to how the city is generally structured (the circular labels are markets). The ones you can see are 'trade' labels which show the flow and nodes of main trade points (I havn't bothered to connect many of them but you get the general idea). The labels in turn spark ideas as to what other industries / trades should be present. (I'll get rid of the labels at the end and put in more relevant ones - I'll colour code the buildings instead, again easy enough in vector.

For example: Quarry -> smelting pits -> foundry -> Smithy -> Armourer.

There will be other lables like 'Armed forces' in a different colour (the yellow fortress label for example). These will have their own 'flows' Castles -> barracks -> watchtowers etc.

This in turn gives me a good idea about what should generally be where in the city and helps to build character in neighbourhoods. It's a great way to work because it makes the city a living, breathing entity with a cohrent structure and lots of functions which overlay each other in a limited space.

Working in vector (apart from the occasional crashes when I overload the machine but I think I've worked that one out now) just rocks when it comes to making small adjustments, tweaking a building here and there, adjusting a road etc.

It also occured to me that I needed to rough out the topography first, since this is pretty much a constant and informs the shape of the city.

I reckon I'll be able to complete the first pass of all buildings in the city in about 4 hours or so. Cleaning up the little bits of building left behind where I use the eraser to make roads - you can see plenty on the docks does take awhile though - I reckon 1 hour per district.

The second pass of the buildings, which is using bespoke buildings for character I think will take about another 4 hours or so.

Labelling, say another 3 hours. It's pretty fast!

Tutorial to come when I'm finished with this and comfortable with the work flow. I suspect we'll be seeing some pretty big cities and Inkscape will be having a rennaisance (although I'm using Serif Drawplus X3 for this city).

The second image is with the reference drawing overlaid on top.

08-07-2009, 12:59 PM
Ha, it does indeed look like you are having a blast. I like your system.

08-07-2009, 03:34 PM
Thanks Gand!

Next iteration here....do you think the drop shadow works or is it too much?

08-07-2009, 03:48 PM
Oh, the drop shadows on the houses definitely work! They give the impression that the houses have several heights.

Not too sure if I like the vegetation at the moment. Location is great, but it looks huge compared to the houses. It might blend in better though, once you have finished putting textures in the map.

Love the houses so far!

08-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Nae bad, ravells!

I do think the buildings look rather wonky in places, but then I'm very much used to thinking of houses as being mostly rectangles. Probably a fault of mine.

08-07-2009, 03:59 PM
Thanks guys, I value the feedback. Alfar, the wonkiness comes from carving the roads, and cleaning it up is going to take ages...but I'll give it a go. I'm just slapping down the buildings for the moment.

Gand, I took a closer look at the drop shadow, I think I'll use it selectively later on for taller buildings. (might work..will try) but everything drop shadowed shows up building overlaps which you can't see without it.

The vegetation is a brush which comes with Drawplus...definitely looks big though (might be the drop shadow I've added to it) - thanks, I'll play around with it.

Steel General
08-07-2009, 05:09 PM
The drop shadows on the vegetation are bit overstated I think, though I do like the actual look of the foliage.

08-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Nice! Looking good. I think you're right about the buildings... they have a more organic feel to them. I'm still thinking that its possible to make the the lazy man technique work, but I'm just stubborn :) Way to push the limits!

08-07-2009, 07:24 PM
Cheers SG, I've made the foliage much less strong - I'll probably look at the whole foliage / landscape / colour pallette thing again just before the end and try to sort them out then.

Keep going with the lazy man, Redstar, I tried for ages to make it work but I don't think I quite got there but Fogdown redux looked sublime. I much prefer the context free technique. Builds great castle and city walls too.

Here's the last render for tonight. Tomorrow I'll start detailing the districts properly and try and give them more individuality.

I think the time estimates I posted earlier are a little under-estimated. Building cities is like DIY. If you think it's going to take you 2 hours, then double it and add half on top again and that's how long it will really take you. :)

Still I'm having fun.



Steel General
08-07-2009, 10:16 PM
I'll often put a inner shadow on the foliage/forest layers as well, gives it a bit more depth/dense-ness. Not sure how it might affect yours though.

08-07-2009, 11:57 PM
I was liking the darker forest (naturally) but was wanting a darker shadow for the houses, too light and blurry for hard edges buildings. I like the colors on the newer one even more, though, so I'm kind of torn.

08-08-2009, 05:54 AM
You are making some good progress Ravells! The houses look great. The foliage is a lot better now also.

One suggestion:
The smaller houses to the southwest turn into big houses quite abruptly. You might want to smooth the transition a bit by having some smaller houses in the district with the larger houses.

08-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks Gand, I'll catch those on the beauty pass. I've just used the drop shadow for the walls and the big buildings - I think that works OK.

I've pretty much done the beauty pass for all the nothern districts, just the four districts to the north and west of the island to go and the island as well. Ditched the textures completely and I think the map is much better for it. Vector's not great for textures so I think this way is better. Wag's tree symbols came in very handy - thanks Wag!



08-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Hmm... you haven't convinced me yet. I liked the one with textures better.
Also, the topdown houses don't match well with the (sideway) trees I think.

08-08-2009, 07:26 PM
I kinda like the greyscale...anyway, we can make the colour / texture decision at the end which is probably the right time for it anyway...got build myself some proper docks, and a canal and a bazaar...all in a day's work for a cartographer!

Tell you what though, if I am going to do the texturing I'm definitely taking into raster. Had people round for dinner tonight so only a small update with the island and some bridges done and some experiments on high verticals.

08-09-2009, 01:01 AM
All of those things stuck together kind of look like Legos. I like Legos so that's cool ;) This is looking quite fun.

08-09-2009, 04:38 PM
It's fun, but is taking much longer than I thought...anyway here is the next iteration, a few test labels, with the wharves to do next.

08-09-2009, 05:41 PM
You can't rush a city map :)
Good job so far, I am liking this latest version better.

08-10-2009, 04:38 PM
And so it goes on....it never ends. Pretty much finished the city and have started the labelling. I think I'm mad.

The problem is that once you put one bit of detail in a map you have to put it all over the map and that way lies hell.

08-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Ah yes... been there, done that.
Love the labeling thus far though.

08-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Why Gandwarf? Why do we do this to ourselves? The labelling is fun though (in a masscochistic way).

Can you read the house numbers? j/k!

08-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Well, I think city mapping is almost a religion. Placing the buildings is like praying ;)
It can be very relaxing though... clear your mind after a day's work and just keep clicking.

08-10-2009, 05:49 PM
I try to avoid labels at all costs. If I could make maps without labels then they'd just be pretty artworks so I am forced to put words on my "paintings"...dagnabit all. Looks good so far though.

08-10-2009, 07:03 PM
Oh man, Ascension, I love labels. for me they really make the map.

08-10-2009, 08:15 PM
Last update before bedtime. Lots of streetnames tomorrow! Yay (ugh).

I've been resisting taking it into raster to give it textural beauty (probably shows), but I'm quite pleased with the results. It's taking a self contained feel which I like.

Gand, don't know about praying but I do find myself humming the same tune over and over while I'm clicking.

08-11-2009, 12:45 AM
That is an amazing map.
Very nicely done.

08-11-2009, 08:28 AM
Gand, don't know about praying but I do find myself humming the same tune over and over while I'm clicking.

"they're coming to take me away, ha ha!" ?


(well, that was the one I was hearing while doing my own city map, can't imagine yours is any less tedious, heh)

08-11-2009, 08:36 AM
The tune that I always find myself humming on city maps goes something like this:

Darkness, imprisoning me.
All that I see, absolute horror.
I cannot live, I cannot die.
Trapped in myself, body my holding cell.

I'm sure Arcanna knows this one.

08-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Hah ha!!!

I hummed a few different ones, they changed when I stepped away from the puter and came back to it. One was an ELO song - I don't even know the title of it. I have no idea why it popped into my head, there was also a Beatles song - 'Penny Lane'. I can see why the slaves who worked the fields used to sing. It really does make repetitive processes go faster.

Thanks Devin!

08-11-2009, 07:30 PM
Labelling almost done - nearly there: Yay. Have to say the labelling was fun though.

Need to do:

A list of important buildings
Proper Title.

And finally it will be finished and I can have a life again. Don't want to map for awhile after this one's finished.

08-11-2009, 07:36 PM
Haha, yeah these maps tend to suck the life out of you :D

08-11-2009, 07:38 PM
I'm lucky my wife hasn't asked for a divorce....she's begining to mention it though! (j/k)...'quote 'Not that bloody map again' unquote.

The repetitive tune during labelling was 'One Night in Bangkok' from the musical 'Chess' - where the hell do these songs pop out from?

08-12-2009, 05:59 PM
Here's the final version - ran out of energy and the last bits (frame and index etc) were rushed. But nothing left in the tank.

Duerma if you're reading this: Here's your map.



08-12-2009, 06:12 PM
Haha, would be funny if Duerma totally forgot about this place, wouldn't it ;)
(it doesn't take anything away from this map!)

08-12-2009, 06:15 PM
LOL I was thinking much the same thing.

08-12-2009, 06:16 PM
Probably best to send him a message :)

08-12-2009, 06:17 PM
Yeah ... good idea!

08-12-2009, 07:23 PM
Well, I did see Duerma looking at the map a few minutes ago... so he's still alive :)

08-12-2009, 08:29 PM
I'm here! Thanks for sending me the message - I've been busy the last few days preparing for a trip to visit my parents for a couple weeks. And honestly, when you said it would take "a few weeks" I was thinking, OK, end of September or something like that. I did NOT expect it so quickly! My adventurers are only just leaving the city tonight. :D

Would it be horridly ungrateful of me to ask for little changes re: the labeling? I'd just want to add a couple places the adventurers have already visited within the city, and change a few names to be consistent with the campaign world (mostly the temples). If it's OK, then I'll PM you tomorrow about it (right now, folks are on their way here and I need to finish getting ready!).

Thank you SO much again. This is totally AMAZING, and so much better than I ever hoped for. :D:D:D

PS: @Gandwarf - I'm a she. In my initial request thread I said I was a mum of 3 in diapers which is why I was wary of doing it myself. ;)

08-13-2009, 01:48 AM
My pleasure Duerma. Changing the labelling is no problem at all. I had hoped to do the final process together with you for that reason. Now it's the morning and I'm feeling a little more energised again I might take a stab at doing a proper title for it.

What we can also do (and this was on my to-do list) is colour individual buildings by type. So for example, all the taverns in the city can be brown, the temples red etc. Part of the reason for the rushed finish is that I'm about to become a dad of 1 in two weeks so time is begining to press.

Although I'm pretty 'city mapped' out, if you would like a map of your campaign world, I can do that for my next project if you like (it will be much faster), but it would be great if you could continue writing your blog recording the adventure. I enjoyed reading it and as I don't have time to RPG any more, reading about the adventures is the next best thing for me!

Eep. I've just re-read your description of the various neighbourhoods and notice that I have forgotten to put a collosium (sp?) in Whitebeach. I'll fix that too. Also turned the crags into a magic area rather than slums, and renamed the docks the wharves - hope that's ok, but if your adventureres have already been to these places and you'd like them changed that isn't a problem.

All the best


08-15-2009, 09:05 PM
Sorry for being so slow! Traveling with little kids is so COMPLICATED! But I'm here now, and can do mapping & D&D stuff because I'm not useful for much else (my parents' house is at 2650 meters above sea level :shock: ).

Anyway! District by district edits:
Ruler's Rise

Add foreign embassy and hall of petitioners (both can be parts of The Keep)
Add a temple to Erathis somewhere
Add an inn called The Goddess' Needle somewhere

Emoth's Knoll
I'm not sure what Emoth's Palace is?
I see you moved the temple district down here, which is cool.

Major deities - Moradin, Pelor, Bahamut. Moradin's temple is largest and includes a forge and smithy.

The Crags
The magic district is fine. I think it looks a lot more interesting than slum after slum! Temples should be to Avandra, Melora, The Raven Queen, and/or Sehanine.
The Bluffwarrens
The Feyisle

Add temple to Correllon
Add ruined palace

Correllon’s Torrent

Add a university; there is a temple to Ioun attached to the university. This is also the center of arcane magic in the town.

Add homes - Dante's home and Soramar's home. (PCs)
Add coliseum (though this would be good in Deltashire too). Near the coliseum, wherever it is, should be a temple to Kord.

The Wharves
Add an Elemental temple
Make one of the neighborhood labels something like a "Genasi slum"
Tanner’s Quarter

There are sewers, so various entrances or related buildings would be appropriate if you think they'd add to the map.
Add parks in Feyisle, Whitebeach, and/or Correllon's Torrent

08-16-2009, 03:11 AM
Cool I'll make the amendments when you're finalised your thoughts. I've spent the morning making a textured version of the map (different style - it's prettier but not as legible) but tell me if you prefer this one.

With the coliseum, do you want two? Or just one in Deltashire?



08-16-2009, 06:35 AM
Oh man Ravells... I am so glad you did a version with textures. I like this version much better :D I was almost dissappointed when you decided to drop the textures after your great start and decided to go with a more schematic version. It's really a living, organic place for me now!

(and I knew you would start tinkering with the map very quickly, even when you cursed it before - the beauty of a love/hate relationship :D )

08-16-2009, 08:06 AM
Dude that's cool. Lovin it.

Steel General
08-16-2009, 09:33 AM
I like the textured version better, though both are very well done.

Bravo Ravs!

08-16-2009, 09:39 PM
The textures are beautiful! :) Every time I come back this looks more amazing.

I think I've listed all the changes. If I suddenly come up with anything else pressing, I'll let you know! Just one coliseum though.

How big do you think this would be printed? I'm thinking a print shop would do a much better job than my lame printer at home. ;)

08-17-2009, 06:24 AM
Thanks guys, textures it is then!

I've done some cleaning up and added in all of amendments, Duerma. I've also put an extension of the side for notes.

Re printing the map, the dimenions are 3700 x 2412 pixels. What you might want to do is have have the map printed out at a large size and laminated so you can draw on it with soluble markers. Gamerprinter who lives near Chicago (I think) has a printing service which offers this sort of thing. Might be worth having a chat with him.

Don't use this posted map for printing, I can put a much larger file (more detail for print) on a file share site for you to download.

Calling this one done now unless you have some last minute amendments.



08-17-2009, 06:50 AM
I'm thoroughly impressed with the amount of work you (and others) are willing to put into a request like this.

Thank you.

08-17-2009, 07:11 AM
Thank You, Alfar for the Context Free script which made it all possible!

08-17-2009, 08:08 AM
Yeah, well, I just keep thinking there has to be a better way... I even considered implementing something like context free as a gimp script. Heh.

Maybe some day I'll even get around to making Photoshop plugins. If it's anything like InDesign plugins, I'm not sure I'll want to go there, though. Ouch.

08-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Very very nice, love the detail on this.

08-18-2009, 02:16 PM
It looks marvelous and I can't think of anything else that needs to be changed. Thank you again SO much. Let me know where I can get the big file. Eeee, this is so amazing!

Is your offer for the overland map still good? If so, I can get you that information.

08-18-2009, 04:45 PM
Cool! Glad you liked it (hardest map I've ever drawn in terms of sheer soul destroyingness - as my guide, philosopher and friend Gwandarf will attest to having done a few himself!

My offer for the overland map is still good (and I'd love to do it), but....

Please make a donation to the guild for this map (as much or little as you like - I'm begining to realise how much one little hungry mouth costs to feed let alone three - click the donation button on the top of your screen - Arcana is funding this site out of his own pocket and we hope that our little acts of kindness will help him to continue to keep the site going).

Please update your blog of the adventurers' travels! It's a great read and I can't wait to read more. What happened after the battle with the wraiths?

The file is 25 mb so it's a biggie, I'm waiting for the upload to complete and then I'll post the address here so you can download it.

all the best


08-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Donation is made. :) And I'll get back to work on updating that blog - plenty has happened since the encounter with the wraiths! :) Thanks so much again. I'll PM you with pertinent details for the overland map.

Cool! Glad you liked it (hardest map I've ever drawn in terms of sheer soul destroyingness - as my guide, philosopher and friend Gwandarf will attest to having done a few himself!

My offer for the overland map is still good (and I'd love to do it), but....

Please make a donation to the guild for this map (as much or little as you like - I'm begining to realise how much one little hungry mouth costs to feed let alone three - click the donation button on the top of your screen - Arcana is funding this site out of his own pocket and we hope that our little acts of kindness will help him to continue to keep the site going).

Please update your blog of the adventurers' travels! It's a great read and I can't wait to read more. What happened after the battle with the wraiths?

The file is 25 mb so it's a biggie, I'm waiting for the upload to complete and then I'll post the address here so you can download it.

all the best


08-19-2009, 07:55 AM
I'm having trouble uploading the big map to mediafire - bear with me.

08-19-2009, 10:34 AM
This looks awesome, and Thanks Ravells for working for the Guild! lol

Duerma, thank you so much for the donation!

*Walks away humming...Bargains imprisoning me, all that I see, absolute savings!*

08-19-2009, 04:14 PM
Heh heh :)