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Gandwarf
07-31-2009, 06:45 PM
Well people, finally a challenge that's posted on time. I am not saying I am the newbie and the other community leaders are slackers. No, you will definitely not hear me say that.

This month's challenge is sponsored by our very own Gamerprinter and the Dementia 5 Publishing House. Not saying I am lazy, but I would like to quote Gamerprinter now:



August '09 Sponsored Mapping Challenge - Create a City Map of Oten-jo, for Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting.

Sponsor: "Gamerprinter", Gamer Printshop & Dementia 5 Publishing House

Challenge: Create a City Map of approx. 3500 people, which is roughly 500 homes, 100 shops, 3 temples, 1 shrine park, 1 castle within city walls, wharfage on the west bank of a river.

You are free to choose your own style, use any software, even hand-drawn work.

References: 3 sets of images offer views found in feudal Japanese cities, please review all of them as each shows a different aspect of a city. Note the closeness of buildings and the narrow streets, alleys often have small gates limiting access.

http://www.gamer-printshop.com/kaidan/japanese-city-resource1.jpg
http://www.gamer-printshop.com/kaidan/japanese-city-resource2.jpg
http://www.gamer-printshop.com/kaidan/japanese-city-resource3.jpg

Tanaka's challenge (mentioned in the reference material):
http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=5434

Although as the Nagasaki map shows Japanese systems use a grid format for street layout, but also castle towns are a bit maze like to prevent direct access to the castle from the city gate.

Winner: will be selected by standard vote by community at the end of the month (Aug. 26).

Prize: Winner will receive a $50 paid commission fee, have their map published in the first adventure of the next campaign to be published some time this fall. Also when the publication is available, winner will receive a free download of the adventure.

If successful we hope to offer other Map Challenges for other aspects of Kaidan.

Good Luck!


So, the winner gets a cash prize and his/her map published in a new RPG setting.

And just to make sure everyone knows what they are signing up for:

The winner supplies Gamerprinter with an unlabeled version of his/her map. The winner keeps a CC license (http://creativecommons.org/) for this work. Gamerprinter will proceed to label the winning map and receives publishing and commercial rights for his version.

So get cracking everyone. This is your chance to make yourself immortal.

Gamerprinter
07-31-2009, 06:54 PM
What a masterful CL's job you've done, Gandwarf! :P

I am the only member and previous Challenge Winner, that has sponsored a Challenge twice! I'm proud of that.

I've posted lots of resource photos to review, but don't think you have to include them all, I just wanted the entrants to get in idea what something might look like.

If you have any questions, just ask. I'll try to keep up on the thread to answer anything you might have for me.

And here's a link to the publisher's website, if you want to check that out - Dementia 5 Publishing.
http://www.dementia5.com click on community link on home page to take you to the forums.

GP

Gandwarf
07-31-2009, 06:55 PM
What a masterful CL's job you've done, Gandwarf! :P


Why, thank you Gamerprinter :D
And thank you for sponsoring!

zenram
07-31-2009, 08:10 PM
Mmm, a chance to learn more about drawing a city, perfect... Oh and is sponsored XD Great

Jykke
08-01-2009, 12:18 AM
600 buildings, a bit too much for 3d project :D Well, I probably don't have time to participate anyway. I hope there will be some great entries on this one!

mmmmmpig
08-01-2009, 01:08 AM
I have a few questions to start with concerning the map for this challenge. I am sure that I will have more questions as I go along.

1. Any background on the temples and/or shrines other than they should be kind of feudal Japanese in style?

2. Is there an overall description of the city anywhere in the game system or are we free to choose the city's overall ethos?

3. What is the final expected size of the finished product? This can/will determine level of detail.

I am sure that I have other questions, but these are the three that I came up with.

Gamerprinter
08-01-2009, 01:27 AM
I have a few questions to start with concerning the map for this challenge. I am sure that I will have more questions as I go along.

1. Any background on the temples and/or shrines other than they should be kind of feudal Japanese in style?

2. Is there an overall description of the city anywhere in the game system or are we free to choose the city's overall ethos?

3. What is the final expected size of the finished product? This can/will determine level of detail.

I am sure that I have other questions, but these are the three that I came up with.


Answers:

1. Temples of Kaidan, follow the ficticious religion called Zao, which is essentially "Buddhism without Enlightenment." However aspects pertaining to Buddhist temples still apply to Kaidan Temples. Pagodas - stack of five roofed tower, large block temples (like the one shown in the photo of the reference material - page 2 I think.) Temples are usually enclosed by low walls to its rear and sides (fronts are open to the street.) Most temples contain gardens with a koi pond water feature often with a tiny islet and bridge accessing. Also trees like Cherry Blossoms, Willows and Pines are grown in Temple Gardens.

2. The general map posted in the reference material shows the basic shape of the city, location pertaining to the castle hill to the south, and the river to the west. Also shows general locations of districts in that city: Samurai District, Temple District, Residential District, etc. However, is there anything written describing the city of Oten-jo specifically - not yet. So you are free to lay the ground work anyway you please. I will write the City's description after map completion. So the cartographer with the winning map, will help determine what Oten-jo really is. You have full control of this yourself.

3. Final Map Size (good question) - the final goal is to have a map that will be placed as a standard letter size map (8.5" x 11") at 300 ppi. If you want to create a larger dimension/resolution map, you are free to do so, and that would actually be helpful to the final product, so a larger dimension map could be made available as a print from Gamer-Printshop.com - but the basic goal is a map for inclusion in a standard document at 300 ppi, ready for printing on users desktop inkjet printer. (Actually if you designed for an 11" x 17" at 300 ppi, it might ideal for my needs.)

Anymore questions? Just post them here, I am ready to answer!

I know this is a slightly difficult challenge, but I hope many people try - besides making a city map for any purpose is just good practice, cartographically speaking!

GP

Immolate
08-01-2009, 11:56 AM
GP, what is the meandering line going through the middle of the city? Is that a stream? If so, I'm going to have to make a citizen's arrest for the River Police and hold you until the authorities arrive.

(edit) also, what is the significance of the rectangular line close to the river?

msa
08-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Doh! I was hoping to participate in the GP challenge but I've got to finish a Ph.D. and find a job this month, so probably not happening! Good luck all :)

Gamerprinter
08-01-2009, 01:05 PM
What??!! How is education and money more important than a map!

Too bad, I would like to see you try this, but completely understand where you're coming from - good luck!

GP

Gamerprinter
08-01-2009, 01:09 PM
GP, what is the meandering line going through the middle of the city? Is that a stream? If so, I'm going to have to make a citizen's arrest for the River Police and hold you until the authorities arrive.

(edit) also, what is the significance of the rectangular line close to the river?

The blue meandering line is the stream depicted in Tanaka's Challenge, used as the outer moat of the castle. This stream forks into the west river off map to the south.

The other blue line (the blocky one) is a canal - also shown in Tanaka's challenge.

You are free to place both water features anyway you want as long as both exit west of the castle into the West River.

All other (non blue) lines suggest changes in elevation, as the castle sits on a rocky hill to the south of the city layout.

There is no River Police issue, the stream and canal follow natural law!

Edit: just to note the west river flows south into the sea...

GP

Ascension
08-01-2009, 01:52 PM
Ph.D. my booty. I quit mine (in psychology) to be an artist. On second thought, maybe I wouldn't be starving if I had stayed with that :)

WidowMakers
08-01-2009, 02:10 PM
I have several questions:
1)The city layout as it pertains to the overall world map of Kaidan.
When you look at the world map, the city of Oten-jo is on the north and east side of the river.
Is that correct? Should we build a map based on the sample city layout or the world map layout?

2)Also is there a desired size for the map? W X H and aspect ratio?

3)Does it need to have a decorative border and a title or will that be added by Gamerprinter with the other text?
Sorry if these questions are know to everyone else already.
I am quite new and could not find these in the rules or entry requirements.

Thanks
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8693/wmminibwpd0.png

Gamerprinter
08-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I have a question about the city layout as it pertains to the overall world map of Kaidan.
When you look at the world map, the city of Oten-jo is on the north and east side of the river.
Is that correct? Should we build a map based on the sample city layout or the world map layout?

Thanks
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8693/wmminibwpd0.png

Good catch, I noticed that too. Actually I will be altering that map a bit, and moving the city of Oten-jo on the west side of the river, rather than the east side as it sits now. As soon as I started creating the reference photo composits for this, I noticed it too. Its been a while since I looked at this map.

For reiteration, Oten-jo should be located on the west side of the river.

GP

WidowMakers
08-01-2009, 02:19 PM
Wow you are fast. I was updating my post with 2 more questions and BOOM, you already answered it before I could submit it. :)

So if the city is located on the west side now, there will be no need for a bridge to go to Sendai as it will most likely cross much further north correct?

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8693/wmminibwpd0.png

Gamerprinter
08-01-2009, 05:25 PM
Rules does not state anything about bridges or ferries. Japanese used both and built bridges that crossed really wide rivers. You are free to do as you please in this regard.

Regarding crossing to reach Sendai - yes there is probably multiple bridges that cross any river in Kaidan. Still putting in a bridge is completely up to you.

There's some detail I require in general layout, a stream, a canal and the mentioned various districts. Beyond that, all detailing is up to the cartographer. There has to be some room for the cartographers creativity. Too much restriction stifles creativity - I don't want to do that.

GP

DevinNight
08-01-2009, 07:28 PM
I'm going to take a stab at this.
I haven't done any city maps so I may fall flat on my face, but it's worth a try.
-D

Immolate
08-01-2009, 08:00 PM
There is no River Police issue, the stream and canal follow natural law!

But the beveled design suggests, and you later reiterate, that the non-blue dividing lines designate a change in elevation, and the stream appears to flow up-hill into the samurai district from the temple district as it flow around the castle mount.

So is the castle mount the only actual elevated area or should the river skirt the samurai district?

MysticMagellan
08-01-2009, 08:03 PM
Count me in.

I was hoping this challenge would come up. I've never done a Japanese-styled map before (and only a couple fully realized city maps), but with the history and chase map, plus all the resource images, this will be lots of fun to explore.

WidowMakers
08-01-2009, 11:02 PM
So there are no size limits or minimums either? I assume that I can't do a 500x500 map and you most likely don't want a 10,000x10,000.

I guess I am just asking what are the approximate sizes that these maps are. Again since I have never does this before, i don't wan to hurt myself for picking an inappropriate size.



I'm going to take a stab at this.
I haven't done any city maps so I may fall flat on my face, but it's worth a try.
-D Well I have never done any map like this before. So if you fall on your face, I will be there right beside you. lol

Thanks
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8693/wmminibwpd0.png

EDIT: I apologize. This question was answered on the first page. I need to learn to open my eyes. :oops::oops::oops:

Redrobes
08-01-2009, 11:08 PM
From Gamerprinter:

Actually if you designed for an 11" x 17" at 300 ppi, it might ideal for my needs
So that would be 3300 x 5100 to be a perfect fit for him. Oh and I should point out that you can post a half size or quarter size one as WIPs or whatever and give him the biggy at the end.

WidowMakers
08-01-2009, 11:41 PM
From Gamerprinter:

So that would be 3300 x 5100 to be a perfect fit for him. Oh and I should point out that you can post a half size or quarter size one as WIPs or whatever and give him the biggy at the end.Thank you very much. Now that I have that all figured out, I can start the simple task of creating a very elaborate and complex map for the first time ever. Woo Hoo.

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/8693/wmminibwpd0.png
EDIT: I apologize. I completely missed this question being answered on the first page. I need to open my eyes first. :oops::oops::oops::oops:

mmmmmpig
08-01-2009, 11:48 PM
...Now that I have that all figured out, I can start the simple task of creating a very elaborate and complex map for the first time ever. Woo Hoo.



Absolutely Brilliant

Gamerprinter
08-02-2009, 03:38 AM
About that stream, when I originally created for Tanaka's Challenge, I imagined a mountain higher behind the castle, which I didn't put in this map. So just take that elevated section section where the Samurai district is and remove it altogether. The bottom of the hill is the start of the samurai district.

I will update the map reference to reflect that.

GP

Gamerprinter
08-02-2009, 11:39 PM
Since Immolate is working with a bridge to cross the river, and there are some questions regarding that, I thought I'd post a couple more reference pieces of bridges to help in the decision. In case anyone else is thinking "bridges", this might help them too.

While I know for sure that there existed "man-made islands" basically free standing piers with buildings on top, then connected to the city via small bridges and one large bridge reaching the other side, I'm not sure of "London Bridge" types with actual permanent homes built on river crossing bridges existed in Japan.

However, remember this is not Japan, and I am not opposed to something like that appearing in a city of two of Kaidan.

Still I"ve found two Ukiyo-e prints of Japanese bridges. The first one shows how far a bridge will cross a wide expanse of water, and its quite wide to be sure. The second image, though a night-time painting, shows potentially how wide such bridges were, and it looks wider than two carts passing, so that's something to consider also. (Note: those are fire works being shot in the air, in the second bridge reference.)

GP

mmmmmpig
08-03-2009, 12:42 AM
I am betting that this one is going to be super fun to watch. The different styles that will present themselves will be amazing.

Redrobes
08-04-2009, 09:31 PM
I look at the boards using the quick links latest posts and I saw the Oten Jo city as part of the challenge from somebody and I thought I only just looked at the Oten Jo entry. There doesn't seem to be many other people making any other cities this month....

I hope everyone else here is not as dose as me.

Ascension
08-04-2009, 10:31 PM
I'm doing three cities, two continents, and one regional map right now...plus a city tut. I might get some time by the end of the month to get something started but probably not finished.

armoredgear7
08-08-2009, 11:15 AM
I've gotta say, this has really piqued my interest I've never done a city map before. I'm going to have to wrap my head around the scale involved here, having never mapped more than a few buildings together.

Determining what level of detail I can put in the houses at that size will also be tricky... I'm going to have to do some print tests.

Flaterectomy
08-15-2009, 10:56 AM
I had begun to at least try and participate in this one, but the preferred size of the image slows my system down so much that it's just no fun to work on. Meep!

Another reason to invest in a new machine. ;)

Ashenvale
08-17-2009, 10:24 AM
Wonderful challenge! What's the deadline on this?

Gandwarf
08-17-2009, 10:54 AM
26th of August.
We have a challenge each month.

armoredgear7
08-19-2009, 11:05 PM
With one week left, this is going to be the time to watch!

I'm expecting leaps and bounds of progress on some of the maps by next Wednesday. Personally I'm investing quite a bit of time this week to push my map to the final result!

Steel General
08-20-2009, 06:44 AM
I'm just hoping to get something presentable done. :P

Gandwarf
08-23-2009, 05:16 AM
Only a couple more days people... now is the time to start wrapping up your map!

Ascension
08-23-2009, 06:37 PM
OK, so I just read the rules...looks like I got everything in correctly just by intuition or general subject knowledge (except I haven't put the park in yet) but I do have one question. It says "unlabeled" so that's good, but what about the title graphic, scale bar, border, compass, misc images, etc.?

Gamerprinter
08-23-2009, 09:16 PM
By the rules, the final map submitted to me needs to be completely unlabeled - no title, city name, legend, compass rose, border, no ammenities.

However, for the challenge you are free to label if you want, just insure you remove these things in a final map that is submitted to me, if chosen as winner. That's what I need. Post whatever you want in the challenge.

GP

MysticMagellan
08-23-2009, 09:51 PM
Good to hear. That makes things much easier with regards to the deadline.

Immolate
08-24-2009, 07:21 AM
Agreed MM. I have no intention of adding a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant to the map being requested.

armoredgear7
08-24-2009, 12:58 PM
I think it's going to be a photo finish for me, so unfortunately I probably won't bother with a border or fake frayed edges. Back to work for me!

Gandwarf
08-27-2009, 06:51 AM
A head's up: I am closing this challenge in about 7 hours from this post.
I wanted to close a couple of hours earlier, but real life is intervening.

armoredgear7
08-27-2009, 10:13 AM
That gives me a chance to tweak a couple things that you mentioned in my thread. Will do!

Immolate
08-31-2009, 10:08 PM
Are we going to hit the ground running with a new challenge for September as soon as this one ends? I'm champing at the bit... champ champ.

Gandwarf
09-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Good question :P
We are still discussing the next challenge...

Gamerprinter
09-01-2009, 03:21 AM
Although its only a recent Challenge Suggestion, there's seems to be lots of interest in Devin Knight's suggestion - Time Passage Maps. Sounds like a good one to give a try, unless the CLs have something else planned.

GP