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Jykke
08-22-2009, 04:46 AM
Well, here's a rough scaled down draft of a landmass I did earlier today. I won't be doing the final map with this technique, this version is just to demonstrate the coastal lines and nation borders. There's no hurry with this one, so it could take some time to complete. :) I know I might need to do something to the island in south-west of the map. It just doesn't fit in so well at the moment.

Jykke
08-22-2009, 06:46 AM
argh, I thought there were some troubles ahead, but I didn't know turning the landscape to 3d terrain is that tricky.. (if you want erosion etc..) What it will do is, lose detail, make it chunky.. cause headache.

Ascension
08-22-2009, 07:58 AM
Looks like it got plowed by a massive glacier...kind of interesting.

Jykke
08-22-2009, 08:23 AM
there's no mountains etc YET.. just working to get the continent borders working, before adding details. And the texture is.. well, a temporary one :D

Jykke
08-22-2009, 08:48 AM
Here is the hand drawn and cleaned b&w sketch of the map. Just wanted to post it as I'll probably cover most of the steps on this thread.. so somehow it belongs here.

Steel General
08-22-2009, 09:16 AM
Looks like it got plowed by a massive glacier...kind of interesting.

That or the world suffered a major melting of the polar ice caps.

Interesting stuff here Jykke.

Jykke
08-22-2009, 09:21 AM
That or the world suffered a major melting of the polar ice caps.

Interesting stuff here Jykke.

The melting of the polar caps would suit the idea I have on this map & world (well, it's only a partition of the world displayed here :).

Jykke
08-23-2009, 01:22 PM
I hate this project already xD Maybe I shoudn't try to force the terrain to a spesific shape, but just to (mhhh.. at this point there were blue artifacts on my display and the whole computer stopped responding. Geocontrol probably crashed it :D) go with the flow and work with the results I get.

pasis
08-23-2009, 01:42 PM
In the old days the tip of the pencil broke, nowadays the computers crash. Times change.
Interested to see what you take this. Good luck...

Jykke
08-23-2009, 02:24 PM
In the old days the tip of the pencil broke, nowadays the computers crash. Times change.
Interested to see what you take this. Good luck...

Well, this attempt might be an overkill... x) I just wanted to have nice mountains.. but it messed up the other parts of the terrain :D

Gandwarf
08-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Very nice mountains, at least zoomed out. Once fully zoomed in I have no idea what I am looking at :D

Jykke
08-23-2009, 03:06 PM
Very nice mountains, at least zoomed out. Once fully zoomed in I have no idea what I am looking at :D

I just probably cut the lower section off and use those mountains on the map. I added some color to the mountains, so maybe it will help to get a better idea how the mountain range really flows..

Gandwarf
08-23-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh yes, this is so much better. Beautiful!

Jykke
08-23-2009, 03:32 PM
Thanks Gandwarf! :) The side profile just bugs me a bit, as the mountain in the middle might be too high compared to the rest of the mountains.

Flaterectomy
08-23-2009, 03:39 PM
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a single, looming and somewhat monstrous peak, I say. ;) Think of all the hidden, underworldly unspeakables that roam around inside its cavernous belly! :D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these mountains will be placed on the landmass you posted earlier?

Jykke
08-23-2009, 03:46 PM
I'll probably re-do the landmass, as using a photoshop made "flat" continent borders didn't work so well with geocontrol (the first 3d versions of the land).. and the terrain which I described as "overkill", well, I don't want the land to have so much fluvial erosion etc. Maybe some smooth hills, deserts with dunes, swampland etc.. so it needs some work (actually a lot of work, as geocontrol might be a b*tch program to work from time to time). But they will be placed on a landmass of some kind. And thanks for the input, I'll just might keep the peak as it is now :)

Gandwarf
08-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Yeah, keep the peak. I think it looks great. It gives the mountains a distinctive feature. Let's just name it Mt. Doom and get on with it :D

Ascension
08-23-2009, 04:40 PM
All I can say is awesome stuff.

Steel General
08-23-2009, 06:42 PM
Those mountains are great.

Diamond
08-23-2009, 11:55 PM
Those are the most beautiful mountains I've ever seen. Have some rep!

Jykke
08-24-2009, 12:01 AM
Thanks alot everyone :) The positive feedback tells that I'm heading into right direction. I'll try to create a landmass that is worthy of the mountains!

Jykke
08-25-2009, 10:24 AM
I did some testing today and got some "ok" results. I managed to create somekind of landmass for the mountains, and here's a quickly textured preview version (note that the material distribution is quite erratic on some occations, as there is forest under the water etc..) The distribution was done quite randomly, because I just wanted to see how the land would look if it has some forest covering it. So, I might want to look at the texture distribution (and the landmass details) again, and tweak them.

Edit: added a second render, a closeup with additional fine detail perlin noise to the terrain. It's quite a mess because of the distributions aren't in order yet, but well.. I wanted to post it anyway. (edit, annnnd took it away for a while.. will post a better one shortly) edit: ok, here's a proper one

Jykke
08-25-2009, 01:30 PM
Here's another development version. I noticed the textures were too sharp, so I rendered a new hi-res version of the map and put a small blur on it. Water still looks horrible on some locations.. and well, there's still a long way to go. Oh, and I don't like the continent shape at the moment, too squary etc.

Steel General
08-25-2009, 02:46 PM
I like these, but to me at least the last one is to blurry.

Ascension
08-25-2009, 04:38 PM
I'm diggin it.

Greason Wolfe
08-25-2009, 05:49 PM
I keep looking at this and I keep seeing an island rather than a continent. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing and comes about mostly as a matter of perceived scale.

Assuming it is a continent (say something roughly as wide as North America at its widest) then the mountains come across as being exceptionally wide at the base in some locations. This, in turn, suggests exceptionally high peaks. Again, not a bad thing if that's the intent. But where it really begins to throw the scale off for me is at the shore. If the scale is consistent across the board, then some of those wave/white-cap features are hundreds of miles in width.

Conversely, if I look at this as an island, the perceived scale falls right into place with nothing being too large or too small compared to the rest. It is one of the things I have a problem with when it comes to my own maps. I've always thought a map should give an impression of scale (via landforms) even without legends and such. I find myself struggling to give that impression in my own maps more often than not. Of course, it could just be me, I'm a bit weird like that sometimes.

Mind you, I'm not trying to nit-pick or suggest that you change anything. It is, after all, your map to work with. Just offering some food for thought.

Beyond that, I think things are looking good so far. You've already mentioned not being happy with the oceans and that you may need to do some more texture work, so I'll not harp on those. I am curious, though, if you are building this entirely with Vue and Geocontrol or if you are incorporating other software packages as well.

GW

pasis
08-26-2009, 01:02 AM
Great work Jykke. Keep it up.

Jykke
08-26-2009, 01:30 AM
I keep looking at this and I keep seeing an island rather than a continent. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing and comes about mostly as a matter of perceived scale.

Assuming it is a continent (say something roughly as wide as North America at its widest) then the mountains come across as being exceptionally wide at the base in some locations. This, in turn, suggests exceptionally high peaks. Again, not a bad thing if that's the intent. But where it really begins to throw the scale off for me is at the shore. If the scale is consistent across the board, then some of those wave/white-cap features are hundreds of miles in width.

Conversely, if I look at this as an island, the perceived scale falls right into place with nothing being too large or too small compared to the rest. It is one of the things I have a problem with when it comes to my own maps. I've always thought a map should give an impression of scale (via landforms) even without legends and such. I find myself struggling to give that impression in my own maps more often than not. Of course, it could just be me, I'm a bit weird like that sometimes.

Mind you, I'm not trying to nit-pick or suggest that you change anything. It is, after all, your map to work with. Just offering some food for thought.

Beyond that, I think things are looking good so far. You've already mentioned not being happy with the oceans and that you may need to do some more texture work, so I'll not harp on those. I am curious, though, if you are building this entirely with Vue and Geocontrol or if you are incorporating other software packages as well.

GW

Thanks for the in-depth view of the map :) You are right about many things about the map. The mountains look a bit unnatural because they are quite large in overall. Maybe I should take some influence on those from some of the relief maps representing earth (Example (http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-maps/image/map-of-world.jpg)). It also bothers me a bit that almost all the mountains have the same style.

The features of the terrain are quite important when it comes to giving impression about the scale. BUT, if I truly want it to be scaled right, it would probably mean less details, and another texture for forests etc. You are correct that it could pass as a island, in the scale aspect.. but not as a continent. This is something I need to rethink, and reflect on. I would want to add those details, but will it set the scale off then..

..About the shoreline, it is abit too unnatural, because of too many rigdes and so on. I need to find a way to do the erosion and landforms just right and more natural looking.

And the tools. I haven't added any features to the terrain etc. with other programs than vue and geocontrol. I did some colour adjustments on some pictures with photoshop, and also added blur to one of the images with it. But that's pretty much all I did with PS.

Thanks again for all who commented on the map!

Greason Wolfe
08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
Don't get me wrong. I still think it looks good so far. And once you add in other features (or define them better if that's the approach you're taking) the perceived scale might fall into place. Like I said, I have a problem with this when I'm working on my maps, and I'm having a huge problem with it for the Hearthstone map. It's a touchy area sometimes, and I'm really hoping that when I start laying in other features (besides the mountains) that things will start to fall into place.

In any event, keep plugging away. The coloring is good and I think the textures are fine just as they are. Being unfamiliar with vue and geocontrol, I'm not sure what you can do to vary the style/shape of the mountains. Maybe a bit of noise (if possible) or varied erosion (i.e. heavier erosion in one area, typical erosion in another area and so on).

GW

Jykke
08-26-2009, 09:55 AM
It's just that I'm quite critical to myself when it comes to mapping. :)

PokealypseNow
08-29-2009, 11:30 PM
Love the renders, Jykke! So, I took a look at the geocontrol and am downloading the demo now. What does vue do?

Mind giving us a super quick overview of your work process?

Jykke
08-30-2009, 03:01 AM
Love the renders, Jykke! So, I took a look at the geocontrol and am downloading the demo now. What does vue do?

Mind giving us a super quick overview of your work process?

Basically I'm using geocontrol to create the terrain, and vue to render & texture it. Here's a tutorial on the terrain generation here (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=6265) but you should find more (and better? :)) tutorials with google.

There's also a tutorial on virtual lands (http://www.virtual-lands-3d.com/geocontrol-2-vue1.html) that will give you a good understanding of how vue and geocontrol can be used together.

On this map I basically did some crossed strokes with the isoline tool of geocontrol (just like shoelaces), applied few erosion filters and combined the heightmap with the base terrain.

You can ask if there's problems with the software, or you can't get it to work as you want. Btw, you can render those terrains with other programs aswell, vue isn't the only one that is suitable for it.

Edit: there's a free version of vue out there (on their homepage), that can produce the type of renders seen here.

Jykke
09-14-2009, 11:38 AM
Maybe it's an island afterall..

su_liam
09-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Looks like a nice place to raise goats.

Redrobes
09-14-2009, 07:55 PM
I liked the mountains you rendered alone a lot. I thought they had great erosion and form. Better than my GTS can produce. WorldMachine is good for erosion too.

The continent looks more like an island to me too. I think its the scale of the promontory ridges into the sea plus the sea texture has a long fade and what looks like sea foam for a distance. All gives the illusion of larger scale. I reckon that the veg texture you are using is too sharp and rough and some of the island pics looks like a lot of noise on top of them. I don't use Vue so I don't have any suggestions.

What I can suggest is to make the map very high res like you have done but instead of blurring it a lot try using a pixelate filter. Thats the one where it straight up averages blocks of pixels together like a 3x3, 4x4, or a 9x9 etc. For an 800x600 final, render 3200x2400, use a 4x4 pixelate to average them and then use pixel resample, or point resample or nearest neighbor to drop it to exactly 25% of big size. Its sounds like a duff idea but try it and you will see its great. There's fairly solid math behind it. Result will be the terrain not blurry but the trees will be more even.

Jykke
09-15-2009, 12:50 AM
Thanks for the good tips and feedback Redrobes!

I tried to add a small noise function to the terrain heightfield to generate more details on closeups. Unfortunately it didn't work as well as I wanted, and for example, those sharp textures are one result of the experiment. I'll try the technique with the pixelate filter, but in the end, I might need to come up with better textures to fix it. The newest renders have a fractal color map and a small noise bump map on the forest texture. It has also some issues, as it looks more like a grassfield, not a forest. The closeups might be a problem also.

The mountains you mentioned have a small trick behind them. I have actually formed them with a tool that lets me control the shape quite well (in geocontrol). Basically they are done with combination of strokes like this (and then I just added some minor erosion effects to the shape):